Never played WOW so can't say whether it's a clone or not but every time I play this I do keep thinking I'm playing a different version of Forsaken World.
I thought title was a joke. Then the OP actually seemed serious. So if it's an MMO it is a wow clone? Well WoW is an EQ clone. WoW is not the original MMO, it is not the origin of all online gaming.
WoW stole the idea of the achievement book and the ability to que for PvP anywhere on the map from Warhammer Online. Pet battles are a Pokemon rip. All the classes have been seen in prior MMOs. The only original things about WoW was the cartoony art style and the ridiculously easy learning curve that allowed people from 3 years old to 90 to get in and play.
This game is too fast paced for most WoW'ites. Giving you fewer abilities means you have to choose a strategy, unlike wow that gives you eight hotbars to fill full of useless skills that have long forgotten meanings.
I know WoW is successful and all but I am happy to see games like Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2, Defiance and others I have yet to play breaking the mold.
The NWO endgame as it currently stands is a watered down version of WoW, and it has nothing to do with what has been mentioned in this thread so far. Here are the similiar elements that currently function slightly better on WoW than on NWO (upcoming fixes have been announced for most of it):
- The endgame gear can only be obtained by forming groups. On WoW there are a few exceptions since DK's can solo a few raid maps, on NWO it hasn't been done yet without the use of exploits and will likely not be possible at all. Either way, you'll likely have to join a guild again and go through the entire hassle of 'TS required, clan meeting, be online at exactly 0:00' etc again aswell.
-The attitude of the endgame people is awfully similiar to WoW, such as the 'LF1M, must be experienced' kind of thing aka not willing to teach people once you've learned how to do the dungeon. This is no surprise considering the endgame gameplay is so similiar and there are quite a few WoW players playing this until they find an excuse to leave.
- The 5 man queue system. On WoW the slots are 3 attacker, 1 healer and 1 tank. That means that the healer which really is required to clear maps will Always be there, guaranteed. On NWO there is no such system, and here the cleric is even more mandatory since the bosses on NWO are tougher than on WoW.
- Need/greed system. On WoW, loot ninjas get vote-kicked if they roll need for an item that can't be used by their class. I've never done raids on WoW since I prefer to play solo, but I'm pretty sure that classes can only roll for items that they are able to equip when it comes to endgame raid drops. Even if not then there's no real reason to do so, since most items that you get in dungeons/raids are account bound.
- Broken endgame pretty much forces you to level alts or quit. On WoW it's broken because of guilds falling apart and people not wanting to bother with finding a new guild over and over again and/or because most servers are hugely underpopulated and haven't been merged yet. Not to mention the daily quest grind, lol.
On NWO it's the queues that take waaaaaaaay too long to load (PvE) and once you do get in, you might not have a cleric in your team or encounter some other issue that'll disable you from finishing the dungeon. And if you go to PvP, you'll find yourself up against a premade atleast half the time (insta loss if in a PUG) - and that's just one of the issues that PvP has right now.
Since the endgame is entirely group based just like WoW is (a bad thing imo), these points that I mentioned will be the only things that matter in the end. And when you view it from that perspective, the game suddenly looks a lot like WoW except it executes the fuctions that are part of such group content rather poorly in comparison to WoW.
The whole group concept is clunky as hell anyways because you usually won't be able to get 10+ people online at the exact same time for several hours (date picking wise). Hence basing the endgame entirely on group content is a bad idea. NWO could fix this issue by giving us better solo moneymaking/h ways since the BiS drops are buyable.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Comparing a game to WoW is like relating modern civilization to the Roman Empire. Sure it wasn't perfect, but we'd probably be a lot further ahead if we fed off of the same model a looooong time ago.
Its a wow clone because:
The combat mechanics are totally similar, crit system, dmg system, lvl system, croud control. Most of the ideas are older than wow, yes. But we all know which game is the biggest badasses out there (even though we hate it now like crazy).
The whole game development system, pvp, pve, lvl up, get tokens, and stuff... its all fashioned to masterpiece in wow, you can say there were other games like that, but nothing beats the good old wow grinding. Unfortunately same (or even worse) here, with the Shards (40k per retalent, give me a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> break, never, I rather delete the char and start all over again, that will take faster believe me than to gather up 40k shard).
Back to the point... when people like me say wow clone is not because wow was the first game like this and they are invented everything. No. Wow clone means that other people thought: Man this game is badassly earning tons of money I want a game like that. Thats why its a wow clone.
And most importantly: Its a wow clone because most of the trolls here coming from wow you can just smell the blizzfrost on your tongues guys! Trolling got totally invented by blizzard[forums] when it comes to forums and mmos.
So yeah a wow clone. Now go, play your game, I'm fine with it [but prob. not spending much time onit anymore, but who cares anyways]
Right.... so you mean to say maple story's 50 million+, Yulgang 100 million+ and runescape's 130 million+ members helping their respective company earning revenues despite being relatively old "ancient" mmorpgs means nothing as opposed to WoW's 8 million-ish members or if you wish, 12m+ during it's peak. Speaking of grinding... have you tried grinding in Ragnarok Online??
Agree 100% this is a holdover game now to me and most of my guildies. The leveling was decent, graphics great, targeting mechanic nice. That said the currency and PTW model kills this game. The dungeons kill this game..oh noes never done this boss what is the strat....knock adds over the cliff while TR kills boss LOL tanks need not apply. See everyone in Wildstar
The NWO endgame as it currently stands is a watered down version of WoW, and it has nothing to do with what has been mentioned in this thread so far. Here are the similiar elements that currently function slightly better on WoW than on NWO (upcoming fixes have been announced for most of it)
O rly?
- The endgame gear can only be obtained by forming groups. On WoW there are a few exceptions since DK's can solo a few raid maps, on NWO it hasn't been done yet without the use of exploits and will likely not be possible at all. Either way, you'll likely have to join a guild again and go through the entire hassle of 'TS required, clan meeting, be online at exactly 0:00' etc again aswell.
It's a common theme in most mmorpgs pre and post-WoW. Ragnarok Online for instance requires a huge team of players to take down the final boss for the best items in game.
-The attitude of the endgame people is awfully similiar to WoW, such as the 'LF1M, must be experienced' kind of thing aka not willing to teach people once you've learned how to do the dungeon. This is no surprise considering the endgame gameplay is so similiar and there are quite a few WoW players playing this until they find an excuse to leave.
Again it's common in mmorpgs even pre-WoW. Most mmorps boss hunts or raiding instance frequently requires members to be sufficiently equip or experienced before starting it simply because it would be a waste of effort and time for most "elites" to teach new players how to do it. Besides, for top guild who frequently raid/boss hunt, not teaching newbies equate to having monopoly on boss or raids.
- The 5 man queue system. On WoW the slots are 3 attacker, 1 healer and 1 tank. That means that the healer which really is required to clear maps will Always be there, guaranteed. On NWO there is no such system, and here the cleric is even more mandatory since the bosses on NWO are tougher than on WoW.
Knight Online for example requires Warrior to tank boss, Rogues to drain hp, Archers and mages to dps, cleric to heal. It is not true that cleric is mandatory in NW. Epics can be done with no cleric although I prefer having one as it saves on pots.
- Need/greed system. On WoW, loot ninjas get vote-kicked if they roll need for an item that can't be used by their class. I've never done raids on WoW since I prefer to play solo, but I'm pretty sure that classes can only roll for items that they are able to equip when it comes to endgame raid drops. Even if not then there's no real reason to do so, since most items that you get in dungeons/raids are account bound.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Need/Greed system was started by Everquest?
- Broken endgame pretty much forces you to level alts or quit. On WoW it's broken because of guilds falling apart and people not wanting to bother with finding a new guild over and over again and/or because most servers are hugely underpopulated and haven't been merged yet. Not to mention the daily quest grind, lol
.
There can never be an set end game. Having a real endgame would simply mean there will not be anymore content coming as it is already "The End", hence most MMORPG if not all leaves their end game hanging.
On NWO it's the queues that take waaaaaaaay too long to load (PvE) and once you do get in, you might not have a cleric in your team or encounter some other issue that'll disable you from finishing the dungeon. And if you go to PvP, you'll find yourself up against a premade atleast half the time (insta loss if in a PUG) - and that's just one of the issues that PvP has right now.
Queue system is created for lazy arses like me. Too lazy to take a little more effort in finding groups. If you do not like the queue system, just go make your own group then team queue it. Problem solved.
Since the endgame is entirely group based just like WoW is (a bad thing imo), these points that I mentioned will be the only things that matter in the end. And when you view it from that perspective, the game suddenly looks a lot like WoW except it executes the fuctions that are part of such group content rather poorly in comparison to WoW.
Again, most MMORPGs pre and post WoW's end game requires group related gameplay. WoW is assumed to be a benchmark simply because people for some reason seem to think the world of MMORPG starts and end with WoW.
The whole group concept is clunky as hell anyways because you usually won't be able to get 10+ people online at the exact same time for several hours (date picking wise). Hence basing the endgame entirely on group content is a bad idea. NWO could fix this issue by giving us better solo moneymaking/h ways since the BiS drops are buyable.
Get a better guild or group??? Or perhaps adjust your online time according to your guild's peak hour?
You can level your character if you wanted too by just doing:
1/ Foundry quests
2/ PVP (although I have heard is diminishing returns atm)
3/ Dungeons
4/ Skirmishes
5/ Solo campaigns
6/ A Combination of all the above, and also
7/ Crafting to an extent
8/ Praying
and you can also:
1/ Make your own quests
2/ Play Monopoly with Zen/Crystals
3/ Pretend you own servants that give u free loot/crystals and equipment.
I see a great game here not a WOW anything - I played WOW from day 1 (collectors edition) and there were no pvp battlegrounds for exp nor were their even Auction Houses in every City - My Night Elf was lv 23 before frustration made him suicide himself against Spiders constantly before making it to the Dwarven city and seeing a AH for the first time. (I had such a racial hatred of Dwarves for years because of this - and would make it a point of honour of only using the Night Elf AH when it was eventually implemented),
I also remember playing Conan and Warhammer Online and as soon as Blizzard saw things implemented in these games that were not in their game - they copied them.....
So not a WOW anything !!!!
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Haha I'm teetering on the edge of uninstalling right now as well. Its taking up prime real-estate on my SSD and honestly this game is months away from being fixed, if ever... and Wildstar is gonna drop soon. Gotta make some room. Just a pain though down the road if you come back... hours and hours of patches... ugh.
Oh good, another game the entitled little brat generation can go whine and ***** about. Good luck with all that.
Very disappointed. The first NWN was outstanding. This is just a console game. Drop the name D&D - this is NOT D&D. Stupid game. I hope it uninstalls fast. Another franchise ruined. Reminds me of MOO3.
First of all, WoW is a clone of Warhammer like Starcraft is a clone of Warhammer 40k. Blizzard is one ****in clone, they clone everything form everywhere. They are Clone Masters. I do not claim that they are ineffective or their games are not cool. What i'm just sayin, is that they don't have one single original idea. Cryptic just create game based on D&D universe which was create earlier than WoW. Every single game which have no-lock-target-to-do-something system and don't have 1k useless spells is not WoW clone and is whole way better than WoW. Of course it is just only my opinion.
Some of the lore was inspired by Warhammer, but the game itself borrowed liberally from the MMOs at the time, chiefly Everquest, and some DAoC, both of which borrowed from Ultima Online and MUDs (Everquest mostly from MUDs unfortunately, wish they had taken more inspiration from UO).
But I don't really get the whole clone debate. People need to just play what they enjoy, and it's good that there are plenty of games to choose from. Most games these days are inspired by other games, just like movies and books are, too. It's just a form of evolution where popular ideas and working concepts are recycled and become a standard component. Humans work that way: we copy successful ideas, tweak them and incorporate them. It's why we no longer live in caves.
This game is *nothing* like a Wow clone, lmao. Yes its bad but its not a Wow clone. Not even close. COMPLETELY different combat... its not target lock, button mash by any means. And there is this little thing called.... FOUNDRY. The ability for users to create content is not a feature of Wow.
WoW clone does not only mean "static" combat. And Neverwinter combat is just like a WoW combat, only that instead to target mob with tab, you have to aim it with the crosshair. Character is rooted in place while using skills (just like static combat). And both games are based on the holy trinity tank-healer-dps (only in Neverwinter 2 clerics with Astral Shield can tank better than the tank class LOL)
WoW clone, hoewever, means also how the progression of character is handled. In WoW and in Neverwinter you level up by farming quests and then at endgame you farm T1 instances just to get T1 gear, then you farm T2 instance just to get T2 gear and so on. Because the real power of your character is based on the equipment he wear, not how skilled is the player to play. That's gear grind. And both WoW and Neverwinter are based on gear grind.
So yes, Neverwinter is a WoW clone. The only way you can play Neverwinter not like a WoW clone is by ignoring completely the gear grind and playing only in the Foundry quests
WoW clone, hoewever, means also how the progression of character is handled. In WoW and in Neverwinter you level up by farming quests and then at endgame you farm T1 instances just to get T1 gear, then you farm T2 instance just to get T2 gear and so on. Because the real power of your character is based on the equipment he wear, not how skilled is the player to play. That's gear grind. And both WoW and Neverwinter are based on gear grind.
So yes, Neverwinter is a WoW clone. The only way you can play Neverwinter not like a WoW clone is by ignoring completely the gear grind and playing only in the Foundry quests
Then how on earth does your character progress in Ultima Online, EverQuest Online, Ragnarok Online, MapleStory, Knight Online and the bloody list goes on.
Almost ALL MMORPG pre-WoW is about grinding and gear grinding. Almost ALL MMORPG pre-WoW is about equipment dependent meaning the better your equipment the stronger you are. From your post I can see that the first mmorpg you have ever played or were introduced to is WoW, which is why all your argument revolves on WoW. Did you forget perhaps that there are thousands of MMORPG before WoW and tenths of them have larger player base then WoW? WoW is a CLONE of all the other mmorpgs before it. Every concept in WoW, mechanics in WoW, and the list goes on, are based on MMORPGs and MMORPG concepts before the creation of WoW and the Warcraft Universe....
NeverWinter is NOT a WoW clone. It's is a MMORPG like every other MMORPG before it. That's all.
Then how on earth does your character progress in Ultima Online, EverQuest Online, Ragnarok Online, MapleStory, Knight Online and the bloody list goes on.
UO was different. There were no actual character levels, just skills. If you did something, your skill went up, and there was a maximum of skill points you could have (across all skills). That number was 700, allowing you to be a Grandmaster in 7 skills, or mediocre in 14, etc. If you wanted to learn something new, you had to let something else go, e.g. you had been using swords all the time and thus build up a high sword fighting skill, but now you wanted to become a mage. So, you would stop using swords and start casting a lot of spells, and your points would slowly transfer to your spellcasting skill.
There was also no gear grind in UO, for the most part. The best gear was crafted by players and items also had wear&tear, so you could only repair it so many times before it would break. And items dropped to the ground if you got killed, so people could loot your corpse, and take your stuff when the corpse decayed (you had some time to make it back to where you got killed).
People still farmed and grinded, but more for materials and maximizing skills, though for a large part UO was almost like a life simulation where you did things for the experience of doing them. Well, real life is a grind too, if you think about it.
It amazes me the things that people automatically equate to "WoW Clone".
Five person groups as staple? Not exactly a WoW thing, it's a simple logic thing. There is a very strong ratio in virtually all MMO's as to how many tanks and healers populate a game as compared to DPS. The ratio tends to actually be worse than a five person dungeon would indicate, but anything less and your constantly excluding people and missing flexibility in encounter design(DPS gets cut in a third by a death in a five man, fully half in a four, considerations for such means dumber encounters), anything more and you get long queues or fishing for groups.
The best example I've ever seen of a WoW clone is SWTOR. Yeah, it's space. Beyond that, the talent structure is identical, the class variety is identical, the raid and instance structure is identical, and so is the gear path and achievement structure. There is so much similarity between the two games on a mechanical level that it's amazing to me that it isn't a copyright infringement. This game has a very different class and mechanic structure, as well as a multitude of other differences.
About the only real similarities in feel that I'm seeing are time honored player functionality items like a white/green/blue/purple gear scale and the traditional group sizes.
From your post I can see that the first mmorpg you have ever played or were introduced to is WoW,
No, my first MMO was Ultima Online (in late '90) and in that game equipment was not so important, having full loot people could even go around with basic equipment and still be competitive being good at movement and using of skills.
WoW is a CLONE of all the other mmorpgs before it.
WoW is an Everquest clone (with other ideas taken here and there), sure. The term "WoW-clone" IMHO just is a short term to describe an MMORPG with gear grind, with fixed classes and holy trinity, exping with quests.
There are MMO and MMORPG that are NOT based on gear grind, that are NOT based on holy trinity, and so on. Neverwinter is not one of those.
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liquidc86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
what the hell has neverwinter to do with WoW xD xD xD
u must be new here.
WoW is a clone of earlier games itself,it didn't bring anything new to the genre.In fact anything it offered that was claimed to be groundbreaking/original was pulled from games that already existed.
It did and still does however appeal to the masses of gamers that don't need or want in depth game mechanics or character progression.
The Alt key to move the mouse cursor is fine! Please don't change it! It took awhile to get used to it because I had just quit WoW to switch to NW, but after half an hour, I much prefer NW's controls over the oldschool Point and Click style!
Yes it's true that hovering over an item during combat during a boss fight kinda sucks. Well, guess what? If someone is dumb enough to press the F key during a boss fight, especially a loot item and knows it will pop a Need/Greed/Pass window on everyone's screen, then I just roll Need if my class can use it, or greed if the icon is red! Tough $#!% if I really needed it or not. Everyone who's played a MMORPG before NW knows you are not supposed to loot items in combat and it is impossible to accidentally loot in NW because you gotta press the F key!
In WoW, it was very easy to accidentally loot because if you misclick, you may accidentally click a loot item instead of a mob!
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And yet WoW has an open world, NW is heavily instanced
WoW has a static rotation with tab targetting while NW has an action combat system
Gear grind and talent trees are stables of almost all mmos
Using your definition almost all mmos are wow clones which is quite frankly a ridiculous notion which would render the term pretty much pointless
WoW has a static rotation with tab targetting while NW has an action combat system
The combat in Neverwinter is not so action. When you use skills you are rooted in place, just like a static combat. You don't select mobs with tab, you select by aiming with the crosshair.
Using your definition almost all mmos are wow clones which is quite frankly a ridiculous notion which would render the term pretty much pointless
In fact a lot of actual MMORPGs are wow-clones (SW:TOR, Rift, just to name two of them very famous). That dowsn't mean that EVERY MMO must have gear grind or holy trinity or classes (GW2 has no holy trinity and a very limited gear grind because in endgame lot of items have the sme power, TSW has no fixed classes so you can build your character as you like, Defiance is a MMOTPS with no gear gind and based on the skill of the player not the equipment farm, and so on)
You don't need a tank in NW, so it doesn't actually have the holy trinity. Besides, both DAoC and EQ did this before WoW already, and it is present even in PnP systems.
Text-based MUDs had gear grinding decades before WoW, as did pretty much all graphical MMOs (except UO) and many SP games. WoW only followed a standard that had already been established.
Talent trees for passive abilities were around in many games long before WoW. Even Blizzard's own Diablo games had passive skills in their talent trees (which looked much like WoW's).
NW actually strays more away from the EQ/traditional MMO formula than most MMOs these days. The combat system is also completely different than the common hotbar/tab-target system, and there is the Foundry.
WoW clone does not only mean "static" combat. And Neverwinter combat is just like a WoW combat, only that instead to target mob with tab, you have to aim it with the crosshair. 1. Character is rooted in place while using skills (just like static combat). And both games are 2. based on the holy trinity tank-healer-dps (only in Neverwinter 2 clerics with Astral Shield can tank better than the tank class LOL)
WoW clone, hoewever, means also how the progression of character is handled. 3. In WoW and in Neverwinter you level up by farming quests and then at endgame you farm T1 instances just to get T1 gear, then you farm T2 instance just to get T2 gear and so on. Because 4. the real power of your character is based on the equipment he wear, not how skilled is the player to play. That's gear grind. And both 5. WoW and Neverwinter are based on gear grind.
So yes, Neverwinter is a WoW clone. The only way you can play 6. Neverwinter not like a WoW clone is by ignoring completely the gear grind and playing only in the Foundry quests
1. try that on some bosses, your dead quick to follow. what WoW do is simply spam skills, no wonder many player try that here with just 3 encounter, 4 tops for CW, and start complaining about their classes
2. wrong again, you can do dungeon without tank, even without healer.
3. well, you simply ignore all other basis to enforce your argument, you can lvl up by just doing PvP or dungeon or skirmish
4. incorrect again, try wear something so powerful as you can get, without good combination of power n feat you still weak as it can get
5. hmmm .... I'm still 42, and wearing a lvl 30 to 40 gear, still can do quest easily, can kill player on PvP too
6. from all of your opinion or argument, you only compare to WoW under feature on WoW basis, which actually most MMO have already got even before WoW exists
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The combat in Neverwinter is not so action. When you use skills you are rooted in place, just like a static combat. You don't select mobs with tab, you select by aiming with the crosshair.
No. There are MMO without gear grind, there are MMO without fixed classes, there are MMO without holy trinity.
In fact a lot of actual MMORPGs are wow-clones (SW:TOR, Rift, just to name two of them very famous). That dowsn't mean that EVERY MMO must have gear grind or holy trinity or classes (GW2 has no holy trinity and a very limited gear grind because in endgame lot of items have the sme power, TSW has no fixed classes so you can build your character as you like, Defiance is a MMOTPS with no gear gind and based on the skill of the player not the equipment farm, and so on)
Well enjoy defining your own words but if you want other people to understand what you're saying it would probably be wiser to accept the common definition which includes static rotation with hotkey and tag targetting
So a couple of mmos don't have gear grinds and talent trees and that somehow validates your claim?
Single player rpgs had these long before wow
Wow clone = LOTRO
Not a wow clone = NW
If you can't see how different NW and LOTRO plays i don't know what to tell you
Oh and saying that wow and NW combat is very much like each other is stupid. You're just targetting with cross hairs instead of tab? lol
Does that mean Call of Duty is a wow clone?
Comments
You might as well have called the game "Hitler"
"WoW clone" is the Godwin's Law of MMO discussions.
WoW stole the idea of the achievement book and the ability to que for PvP anywhere on the map from Warhammer Online. Pet battles are a Pokemon rip. All the classes have been seen in prior MMOs. The only original things about WoW was the cartoony art style and the ridiculously easy learning curve that allowed people from 3 years old to 90 to get in and play.
This game is too fast paced for most WoW'ites. Giving you fewer abilities means you have to choose a strategy, unlike wow that gives you eight hotbars to fill full of useless skills that have long forgotten meanings.
I know WoW is successful and all but I am happy to see games like Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2, Defiance and others I have yet to play breaking the mold.
- The endgame gear can only be obtained by forming groups. On WoW there are a few exceptions since DK's can solo a few raid maps, on NWO it hasn't been done yet without the use of exploits and will likely not be possible at all. Either way, you'll likely have to join a guild again and go through the entire hassle of 'TS required, clan meeting, be online at exactly 0:00' etc again aswell.
-The attitude of the endgame people is awfully similiar to WoW, such as the 'LF1M, must be experienced' kind of thing aka not willing to teach people once you've learned how to do the dungeon. This is no surprise considering the endgame gameplay is so similiar and there are quite a few WoW players playing this until they find an excuse to leave.
- The 5 man queue system. On WoW the slots are 3 attacker, 1 healer and 1 tank. That means that the healer which really is required to clear maps will Always be there, guaranteed. On NWO there is no such system, and here the cleric is even more mandatory since the bosses on NWO are tougher than on WoW.
- Need/greed system. On WoW, loot ninjas get vote-kicked if they roll need for an item that can't be used by their class. I've never done raids on WoW since I prefer to play solo, but I'm pretty sure that classes can only roll for items that they are able to equip when it comes to endgame raid drops. Even if not then there's no real reason to do so, since most items that you get in dungeons/raids are account bound.
- Broken endgame pretty much forces you to level alts or quit. On WoW it's broken because of guilds falling apart and people not wanting to bother with finding a new guild over and over again and/or because most servers are hugely underpopulated and haven't been merged yet. Not to mention the daily quest grind, lol.
On NWO it's the queues that take waaaaaaaay too long to load (PvE) and once you do get in, you might not have a cleric in your team or encounter some other issue that'll disable you from finishing the dungeon. And if you go to PvP, you'll find yourself up against a premade atleast half the time (insta loss if in a PUG) - and that's just one of the issues that PvP has right now.
Since the endgame is entirely group based just like WoW is (a bad thing imo), these points that I mentioned will be the only things that matter in the end. And when you view it from that perspective, the game suddenly looks a lot like WoW except it executes the fuctions that are part of such group content rather poorly in comparison to WoW.
The whole group concept is clunky as hell anyways because you usually won't be able to get 10+ people online at the exact same time for several hours (date picking wise). Hence basing the endgame entirely on group content is a bad idea. NWO could fix this issue by giving us better solo moneymaking/h ways since the BiS drops are buyable.
Right.... so you mean to say maple story's 50 million+, Yulgang 100 million+ and runescape's 130 million+ members helping their respective company earning revenues despite being relatively old "ancient" mmorpgs means nothing as opposed to WoW's 8 million-ish members or if you wish, 12m+ during it's peak. Speaking of grinding... have you tried grinding in Ragnarok Online??
O rly?
It's a common theme in most mmorpgs pre and post-WoW. Ragnarok Online for instance requires a huge team of players to take down the final boss for the best items in game.
Again it's common in mmorpgs even pre-WoW. Most mmorps boss hunts or raiding instance frequently requires members to be sufficiently equip or experienced before starting it simply because it would be a waste of effort and time for most "elites" to teach new players how to do it. Besides, for top guild who frequently raid/boss hunt, not teaching newbies equate to having monopoly on boss or raids.
Knight Online for example requires Warrior to tank boss, Rogues to drain hp, Archers and mages to dps, cleric to heal. It is not true that cleric is mandatory in NW. Epics can be done with no cleric although I prefer having one as it saves on pots.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Need/Greed system was started by Everquest?
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There can never be an set end game. Having a real endgame would simply mean there will not be anymore content coming as it is already "The End", hence most MMORPG if not all leaves their end game hanging.
Queue system is created for lazy arses like me. Too lazy to take a little more effort in finding groups. If you do not like the queue system, just go make your own group then team queue it. Problem solved.
Again, most MMORPGs pre and post WoW's end game requires group related gameplay. WoW is assumed to be a benchmark simply because people for some reason seem to think the world of MMORPG starts and end with WoW.
Get a better guild or group??? Or perhaps adjust your online time according to your guild's peak hour?
1/ Foundry quests
2/ PVP (although I have heard is diminishing returns atm)
3/ Dungeons
4/ Skirmishes
5/ Solo campaigns
6/ A Combination of all the above, and also
7/ Crafting to an extent
8/ Praying
and you can also:
1/ Make your own quests
2/ Play Monopoly with Zen/Crystals
3/ Pretend you own servants that give u free loot/crystals and equipment.
I see a great game here not a WOW anything - I played WOW from day 1 (collectors edition) and there were no pvp battlegrounds for exp nor were their even Auction Houses in every City - My Night Elf was lv 23 before frustration made him suicide himself against Spiders constantly before making it to the Dwarven city and seeing a AH for the first time. (I had such a racial hatred of Dwarves for years because of this - and would make it a point of honour of only using the Night Elf AH when it was eventually implemented),
I also remember playing Conan and Warhammer Online and as soon as Blizzard saw things implemented in these games that were not in their game - they copied them.....
So not a WOW anything !!!!
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Oh good, another game the entitled little brat generation can go whine and ***** about. Good luck with all that.
Some of the lore was inspired by Warhammer, but the game itself borrowed liberally from the MMOs at the time, chiefly Everquest, and some DAoC, both of which borrowed from Ultima Online and MUDs (Everquest mostly from MUDs unfortunately, wish they had taken more inspiration from UO).
But I don't really get the whole clone debate. People need to just play what they enjoy, and it's good that there are plenty of games to choose from. Most games these days are inspired by other games, just like movies and books are, too. It's just a form of evolution where popular ideas and working concepts are recycled and become a standard component. Humans work that way: we copy successful ideas, tweak them and incorporate them. It's why we no longer live in caves.
WoW clone does not only mean "static" combat. And Neverwinter combat is just like a WoW combat, only that instead to target mob with tab, you have to aim it with the crosshair. Character is rooted in place while using skills (just like static combat). And both games are based on the holy trinity tank-healer-dps (only in Neverwinter 2 clerics with Astral Shield can tank better than the tank class LOL)
WoW clone, hoewever, means also how the progression of character is handled. In WoW and in Neverwinter you level up by farming quests and then at endgame you farm T1 instances just to get T1 gear, then you farm T2 instance just to get T2 gear and so on. Because the real power of your character is based on the equipment he wear, not how skilled is the player to play. That's gear grind. And both WoW and Neverwinter are based on gear grind.
So yes, Neverwinter is a WoW clone. The only way you can play Neverwinter not like a WoW clone is by ignoring completely the gear grind and playing only in the Foundry quests
Then how on earth does your character progress in Ultima Online, EverQuest Online, Ragnarok Online, MapleStory, Knight Online and the bloody list goes on.
Almost ALL MMORPG pre-WoW is about grinding and gear grinding. Almost ALL MMORPG pre-WoW is about equipment dependent meaning the better your equipment the stronger you are. From your post I can see that the first mmorpg you have ever played or were introduced to is WoW, which is why all your argument revolves on WoW. Did you forget perhaps that there are thousands of MMORPG before WoW and tenths of them have larger player base then WoW? WoW is a CLONE of all the other mmorpgs before it. Every concept in WoW, mechanics in WoW, and the list goes on, are based on MMORPGs and MMORPG concepts before the creation of WoW and the Warcraft Universe....
NeverWinter is NOT a WoW clone. It's is a MMORPG like every other MMORPG before it. That's all.
UO was different. There were no actual character levels, just skills. If you did something, your skill went up, and there was a maximum of skill points you could have (across all skills). That number was 700, allowing you to be a Grandmaster in 7 skills, or mediocre in 14, etc. If you wanted to learn something new, you had to let something else go, e.g. you had been using swords all the time and thus build up a high sword fighting skill, but now you wanted to become a mage. So, you would stop using swords and start casting a lot of spells, and your points would slowly transfer to your spellcasting skill.
There was also no gear grind in UO, for the most part. The best gear was crafted by players and items also had wear&tear, so you could only repair it so many times before it would break. And items dropped to the ground if you got killed, so people could loot your corpse, and take your stuff when the corpse decayed (you had some time to make it back to where you got killed).
People still farmed and grinded, but more for materials and maximizing skills, though for a large part UO was almost like a life simulation where you did things for the experience of doing them. Well, real life is a grind too, if you think about it.
Five person groups as staple? Not exactly a WoW thing, it's a simple logic thing. There is a very strong ratio in virtually all MMO's as to how many tanks and healers populate a game as compared to DPS. The ratio tends to actually be worse than a five person dungeon would indicate, but anything less and your constantly excluding people and missing flexibility in encounter design(DPS gets cut in a third by a death in a five man, fully half in a four, considerations for such means dumber encounters), anything more and you get long queues or fishing for groups.
The best example I've ever seen of a WoW clone is SWTOR. Yeah, it's space. Beyond that, the talent structure is identical, the class variety is identical, the raid and instance structure is identical, and so is the gear path and achievement structure. There is so much similarity between the two games on a mechanical level that it's amazing to me that it isn't a copyright infringement. This game has a very different class and mechanic structure, as well as a multitude of other differences.
About the only real similarities in feel that I'm seeing are time honored player functionality items like a white/green/blue/purple gear scale and the traditional group sizes.
WoW is an Everquest clone (with other ideas taken here and there), sure. The term "WoW-clone" IMHO just is a short term to describe an MMORPG with gear grind, with fixed classes and holy trinity, exping with quests.
There are MMO and MMORPG that are NOT based on gear grind, that are NOT based on holy trinity, and so on. Neverwinter is not one of those.
u must be new here.
It did and still does however appeal to the masses of gamers that don't need or want in depth game mechanics or character progression.
- gear grind
- talent tress for passive abilities
Yes it's true that hovering over an item during combat during a boss fight kinda sucks. Well, guess what? If someone is dumb enough to press the F key during a boss fight, especially a loot item and knows it will pop a Need/Greed/Pass window on everyone's screen, then I just roll Need if my class can use it, or greed if the icon is red! Tough $#!% if I really needed it or not. Everyone who's played a MMORPG before NW knows you are not supposed to loot items in combat and it is impossible to accidentally loot in NW because you gotta press the F key!
In WoW, it was very easy to accidentally loot because if you misclick, you may accidentally click a loot item instead of a mob!
WoW has a static rotation with tab targetting while NW has an action combat system
Gear grind and talent trees are stables of almost all mmos
Using your definition almost all mmos are wow clones which is quite frankly a ridiculous notion which would render the term pretty much pointless
No. There are MMO without gear grind, there are MMO without fixed classes, there are MMO without holy trinity.
In fact a lot of actual MMORPGs are wow-clones (SW:TOR, Rift, just to name two of them very famous). That dowsn't mean that EVERY MMO must have gear grind or holy trinity or classes (GW2 has no holy trinity and a very limited gear grind because in endgame lot of items have the sme power, TSW has no fixed classes so you can build your character as you like, Defiance is a MMOTPS with no gear gind and based on the skill of the player not the equipment farm, and so on)
You don't need a tank in NW, so it doesn't actually have the holy trinity. Besides, both DAoC and EQ did this before WoW already, and it is present even in PnP systems.
Text-based MUDs had gear grinding decades before WoW, as did pretty much all graphical MMOs (except UO) and many SP games. WoW only followed a standard that had already been established.
Talent trees for passive abilities were around in many games long before WoW. Even Blizzard's own Diablo games had passive skills in their talent trees (which looked much like WoW's).
NW actually strays more away from the EQ/traditional MMO formula than most MMOs these days. The combat system is also completely different than the common hotbar/tab-target system, and there is the Foundry.
1. try that on some bosses, your dead quick to follow. what WoW do is simply spam skills, no wonder many player try that here with just 3 encounter, 4 tops for CW, and start complaining about their classes
2. wrong again, you can do dungeon without tank, even without healer.
3. well, you simply ignore all other basis to enforce your argument, you can lvl up by just doing PvP or dungeon or skirmish
4. incorrect again, try wear something so powerful as you can get, without good combination of power n feat you still weak as it can get
5. hmmm .... I'm still 42, and wearing a lvl 30 to 40 gear, still can do quest easily, can kill player on PvP too
6. from all of your opinion or argument, you only compare to WoW under feature on WoW basis, which actually most MMO have already got even before WoW exists
So a couple of mmos don't have gear grinds and talent trees and that somehow validates your claim?
Single player rpgs had these long before wow
Wow clone = LOTRO
Not a wow clone = NW
If you can't see how different NW and LOTRO plays i don't know what to tell you
Oh and saying that wow and NW combat is very much like each other is stupid. You're just targetting with cross hairs instead of tab? lol
Does that mean Call of Duty is a wow clone?