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Patch Notes NW.1.20130416a.34-39

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  • skrikarnskrikarn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cathgar457 wrote: »
    So the loading into Protector's Enclave delay is the new queue system:)
    Wait for 10min, no press key message and pressing keys does not work but if I open up an IE session then I get the press key message.

    Nice little workaround, tested to open up IE and voila, I got through the loading screeen. :D
  • zbluggzblugg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't know if it's been mentionned before, but the gateway text doesn't display properly in Chrome, now. Severe overlapping, so that I can't see the end of may email addresse on login, can't see the duration of tasks, etc.

    Also, can't leave comments on patch notes when following the link found on the Gateway homescreen.

    (And inspector135711, you are a beast! :cool:)
    21.jpg
  • n00biezan00bieza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hi all,

    I launched the game now for the first time since yesterday morning (Saturday 25th of May) - game started patching, took me to login screen, I entered my password - but now it just hangs on the launcher where it's supposed to say "patching" or "play" - only with the version number next to it (Version NW.1.20130416a.39 .) but doesn't do anything...

    Any help?!

    *EDIT* - I seem to have found the problem:

    I renamed the ".patch" folder in "*\Cryptic Studios\Neverwinter\Live" it reapplied the patch - launched successfully now.
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    As tank I think GF has very decent damage in PvP, some of them hit pretty good! And with good gear/fast reactions they can be really hard to kill because of such a good defence!. But true, in PvE aggro "MUST" be fixed or else Guardian Fighter is not for whats it meant to.. main tank for - PvE.
    - CW lvl60

    GF Are way! OP in pvp WAY!
  • meowkittonmeowkitton Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You basically "derailed" that posters comment to re-purpose interest in your desired direction,
    Rant[ON]
    I've said it before, and ill say it again... This is not other games. It's not yahtzee, 40k, gw, its not aoc, swg, smite, lol, halo, monopoly, the sims, connect 4, or any other game you may have sank a million hours into.
    This is D&D and the sooner the "Johnny come lately's", the woefully distracted, recently digitally inundated tester, and the grizzled grognard realize/remember this the sooner we can get back to actual D&D.
    This system has been in development since the 70's so GTFO with the new school comparative BS postulation. You may change the dynamics of an iteration, but you shall not change the heart of DnD, which was pumping long before even D&D was officiated and to which 99% of modern fantasy games OWE a great debt of developmental gratitude.
    Rant[OFF]

    But this isn't D&D, the closest you get to an online version of D&D is DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) where you have the same character sheet, the same customization options, multi classing, paragon classes and even epic destinies now. I'm all for D&D and the ability to customize which comes with it, but this is - at most - inspired by it. Yes it has races, classes taken from D&D 4th Edition, but even the actual 4th edition books are more complex than this. The Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter both fall under Fighter, as builds. However, the paragon class which Guardian Fighters have aren't even locked to them in the books, a Great Weapon Fighter can be a Iron Vanguard if you choose so. Even the skills here are changed from the originals (those from D&D 4th Edition books.)

    This isn't really D&D, it's based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter, but loosely so. The lore and PnP aspects of D&D aren't what Cryptec/Perfect World are concentrating on, they wanted a casual MMO of which was based on D&D, which is why they chose to go with the 4th Edition as their basis. The 4th Edition alone - without any changes done to it - actually functions as an MMO out-of-the-box, so this was deliberate. Those who enjoyed the crpgs will not find the same here, it isn't like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale or as complex as DDO: because it wasn't meant to be. There's no point in defending this game as though it's actually for the fans of D&D, because it's not.

    It has the name, it is based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter campaign. But it is not a D&D game, it is a casual action mmo. It's not a bad thing, but there is no reason to defend it as though it was something else. It's a great game, but I feel you are really obscuring what this game really is: an MMO, with typical MMO rules and streamlined classes and customization which makes it hard to really screw up, it guides the player and doesn't really allow you the freedom you get from the actual D&D character sheets. It's an MMO - my favorite MMO as of the moment - but that is all it is.
  • ricktacularricktacular Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    meowkitton wrote: »
    But this isn't D&D, the closest you get to an online version of D&D is DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) where you have the same character sheet, the same customization options, multi classing, paragon classes and even epic destinies now. I'm all for D&D and the ability to customize which comes with it, but this is - at most - inspired by it. Yes it has races, classes taken from D&D 4th Edition, but even the actual 4th edition books are more complex than this. The Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter both fall under Fighter, as builds. However, the paragon class which Guardian Fighters have aren't even locked to them in the books, a Great Weapon Fighter can be a Iron Vanguard if you choose so. Even the skills here are changed from the originals (those from D&D 4th Edition books.)

    This isn't really D&D, it's based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter, but loosely so. The lore and PnP aspects of D&D aren't what Cryptec/Perfect World are concentrating on, they wanted a casual MMO of which was based on D&D, which is why they chose to go with the 4th Edition as their basis. The 4th Edition alone - without any changes done to it - actually functions as an MMO out-of-the-box, so this was deliberate. Those who enjoyed the crpgs will not find the same here, it isn't like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale or as complex as DDO: because it wasn't meant to be. There's no point in defending this game as though it's actually for the fans of D&D, because it's not.

    It has the name, it is based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter campaign. But it is not a D&D game, it is a casual action mmo. It's not a bad thing, but there is no reason to defend it as though it was something else. It's a great game, but I feel you are really obscuring what this game really is: an MMO, with typical MMO rules and streamlined classes and customization which makes it hard to really screw up, it guides the player and doesn't really allow you the freedom you get from the actual D&D character sheets. It's an MMO - my favorite MMO as of the moment - but that is all it is.

    I'm sorry, I disagree with you. I think D&D is what you make it. I remember when 3.0 came out, and everyone shouted "ruined forever!" and even more so when 4e came out. I don't think it's the engine or the rules that makes the game, but who plays it, and who you play it with. I also think that the setting is important. I don't think WotC is disinterested in the lore of they have Salvatore as their go-to guy (is he still writing for Neverwinter?).

    I remember reading an article asking why we have to use the d20 system for D&D when computers can handle such complex computations. That is, the d20 system is meant to be simple to keep the action flowing for us poor, slow, dumb humans. Computers can figure such complex formulae seemingly instantly, why hobble it? Heck, while DDO is, rule-wise, closest to 3.5, it still takes liberties to make it fit into an MMO. What'cha gonna do, right?

    Finally, as it's owned by WotC, if they say it's D&D, who are we to tell them otherwise? ;-)

    In conclusion, please take everything I said in it's most positive context, both in terms of the conversation and personal reply. It's how I intend it. :-)
  • jopadocjopadoc Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    since this patch i have been stuck on the loading screen after clicking "Enter World". i havent been able to play the game. i have tried to re=download the game, restart my computer and even wait out the loading screen for 2hrs; none of it is working and im missing out on stuff i need to do such as prayers to dieties and auctions i might have lost out on.
  • kwsapphirekwsapphire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dezstravus wrote: »
    • Companions can no longer be auto-summoned in certain states, which would occasionally leave the player with two Companions.

    This is not fixed. Screenshots taken at 7:47pm eastern on Sunday, 5/26/13:

    Panthro1.png

    Panthro2.png
    qtPt2I
  • zealotomegazealotomega Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Can the next patch update please bring back the controller interface so I can use my controller in-game rather than a 3rd party software to enjoy the game?
  • vylkervylker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 133 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    When Gaylntrym goes live??
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I also had two companions last night when I was in Icespire Peak. I did try to submit a ticket about it, but got a could not connect to server error. The second one finally disappeared when I entered the Mithril Mine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kingculex wrote: »
    Another one crying about PVP and TR. As a trickster rouge I could cry about the cleric shield (astral shield or archon shield??) being to strong and being impossible when stacked. I could also cry about GWF dealing to much damage. Why bother when anyone who knows how to properly fight can handle it. The shocking execution requires the target to be partial injured and the action point to be full for it to work. It is designed to double or more the damage on the target. CW have a similar attack because it kills me constantly. Rouges are high dps low defense. I compensate by having regeneration and life steal as part of my gear attributes. The trickster rouge lashing blade may still be glitched and it doing damage but it is survivable. You basically need to adapt quickly to survive instead of whining. I switch out my powers depending on the team I am facing. Nerf the TR? Then Nerf the Cleric's shield! I honestly say it doesn't matter because it make the game more difficult and funner.

    First off. "Funner" is not a word. And its Rogue. I do agree that clerics astral shield needs to be fixed at least for pvp. However, rogues are doing way to much damage. Even in pve they do way more damage than the CW. Even GF can do millions more damage than a CW. The fact that a rogue can attack you from range with daggers and remain hidden is HAMSTER. The fact that this encounter power takes half of your life is HAMSTER. The fact that the rogue can remain hidden and take half your life is HAMSTER. If the rogue attacks anyone while hiding in the shadows he should be seen period. As far as the CW having a similar power "Ice Knife" I have not seen it do over 18000 damage and that is after a few rays of enfeeblement. Lashing blade I have seen do 29000 damage with one button. I have had GF knock me down and kill me in 2 hits over and over. Some of them you cannot even hurt. I have had 3 guys on a GF and we could not kill him by the time the rest of his team got to him. There is a reason why you see more and more GF and TR in pvp and less and less CW.

    It just seems like GF and TR have some many ways to deal with a CW and the other classes; well a CW powers can be easily avoided. A Rogue can dodge a Ice Knife a GF can just block it. Entanglement a rogue can roll out or just hide before it goes off if timed right. A GF just takes it then takes the pounding that follows then shield bashes you from a long ways away and kills you in a few hits. All I am saying is that pvp need some attention and soon.
  • sas1ksas1k Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    23 days with ability scores 0 and no deity...And I am not alone with this bug :(
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    solyad1 wrote: »
    I was getting killed by CW in about one rotation of their encounters/specials, but now GF are doing the same thing. 3 shots sprinkled in between the stun/knockdowns and 27k hp was gone, less then 5 keystrokes.

    PVP really needs some balancing. As it is now, I just do the 3 matches for the AD and move on because I can't stomach it. I'd really like to spend more time doing it once some thought is put into balancing the classes. As it is, you're pvp-ing vs. classes tuned for PVE and they are wrecking classes not designed for mass-cc or mass-single target dps. Fix it or many people won't even do it for the AD reward for very long.

    I totally agree with you. People are going to get tired of the unbalanced issues in pvp and leave. I think the CW damage output is nothing compared to the GF or the TR though. Most of the CW stun powers can easily be avoided especially by the TR. Mean while it is really hard if not impossible to avoid some of the TR and GF big damage dealers. I have been killed by a TR in one hit and a GF in 2. It is happening more and more as people are figuring out the classes. I do enjoy pvp but these issues need to be addressed and soon.
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    meowkitton wrote: »
    But this isn't D&D, the closest you get to an online version of D&D is DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) where you have the same character sheet, the same customization options, multi classing, paragon classes and even epic destinies now. I'm all for D&D and the ability to customize which comes with it, but this is - at most - inspired by it. Yes it has races, classes taken from D&D 4th Edition, but even the actual 4th edition books are more complex than this. The Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter both fall under Fighter, as builds. However, the paragon class which Guardian Fighters have aren't even locked to them in the books, a Great Weapon Fighter can be a Iron Vanguard if you choose so. Even the skills here are changed from the originals (those from D&D 4th Edition books.)

    This isn't really D&D, it's based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter, but loosely so. The lore and PnP aspects of D&D aren't what Cryptec/Perfect World are concentrating on, they wanted a casual MMO of which was based on D&D, which is why they chose to go with the 4th Edition as their basis. The 4th Edition alone - without any changes done to it - actually functions as an MMO out-of-the-box, so this was deliberate. Those who enjoyed the crpgs will not find the same here, it isn't like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale or as complex as DDO: because it wasn't meant to be. There's no point in defending this game as though it's actually for the fans of D&D, because it's not.

    It has the name, it is based on the 4th Edition's Neverwinter campaign. But it is not a D&D game, it is a casual action mmo. It's not a bad thing, but there is no reason to defend it as though it was something else. It's a great game, but I feel you are really obscuring what this game really is: an MMO, with typical MMO rules and streamlined classes and customization which makes it hard to really screw up, it guides the player and doesn't really allow you the freedom you get from the actual D&D character sheets. It's an MMO - my favorite MMO as of the moment - but that is all it is.

    Nicely said! You are totally correct.
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm sorry, I disagree with you. I think D&D is what you make it. I remember when 3.0 came out, and everyone shouted "ruined forever!" and even more so when 4e came out. I don't think it's the engine or the rules that makes the game, but who plays it, and who you play it with. I also think that the setting is important. I don't think WotC is disinterested in the lore of they have Salvatore as their go-to guy (is he still writing for Neverwinter?).

    I remember reading an article asking why we have to use the d20 system for D&D when computers can handle such complex computations. That is, the d20 system is meant to be simple to keep the action flowing for us poor, slow, dumb humans. Computers can figure such complex formulae seemingly instantly, why hobble it? Heck, while DDO is, rule-wise, closest to 3.5, it still takes liberties to make it fit into an MMO. What'cha gonna do, right?

    Finally, as it's owned by WotC, if they say it's D&D, who are we to tell them otherwise? ;-)

    In conclusion, please take everything I said in it's most positive context, both in terms of the conversation and personal reply. It's how I intend it. :-)

    This is not D&D. I will tell you why. Choice! D&D is about choices. A great weapon fighter dwarf wielding a two handed sword? Why not use a dwarven waraxe? A rogue has to use a daggers? Why not a short sword and buckler? A wizard has to use a floating orb. What if I want to use a staff a crossbow? Have you ever played DDO or neverwinter 2? You have nothing but options on how you build your character hundreds of options. especially in neverwinter 1 and 2. You can wield all kinds of weapons. LOL I have been playing D&D, since just D&D. This is a mmo a great one I do agree but it is not D&D. It has the looks of D&D like creature but not the true mechanics of D&D
  • blazing992blazing992 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I totally agree with you. People are going to get tired of the unbalanced issues in pvp and leave.
    No they don't. and they never did and this also happens in every mmo out there.

    I think the CW damage output is nothing compared to the GF or the TR though. Most of the CW stun powers can easily be avoided especially by the TR. Mean while it is really hard if not impossible to avoid some of the TR and GF big damage dealers. I have been killed by a TR in one hit and a GF in 2. It is happening more and more as people are figuring out the classes. I do enjoy pvp but these issues need to be addressed and soon.

    yfD6NIF.jpg
    Sorry what you was saying?

    29568968.jpg
    avatar263030_1.jpg
    "Nerf paper. Scissors are just fine. Thanks." - Rock
  • applepotatoepieapplepotatoepie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You aren't fooling anyone with that screenshot. CW always does a **** ton more damage than other classes in CN because you knock everything off the ledge after Beholder. TR basically just goes AFK until Dracolich, in which they still lose on damage because you're knocking a billion more mobs.

    There are absolutely piles of mobs at all times, Skele hallway being a prime example. Also the high amounts of Red Wizards and Deathlock Wights summoning little skeles for you to eat up.

    CW could never dream to do the same single target damage TR can. All of our damage looks nice and pretty because we're hitting a billion adds in Castle Never.
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    azfalt wrote: »
    Partly agreeable, most whiners don't know how to play their class, or they havn't found a class to play that suits their playstyle.
    My experience is that balancing can never be done to fulfill everyone, there will always be someone complaining, that someone else is better suited to play the game.
    To thoes whiners who complain, just because they don't want to spend any more time learning to play the game or their shosen class, stop whining and do something else you might be better at!

    Who's Whining? Pvp needs attention there is many bugs and exploits in pvp. Like TR rolling right out of entanglement. Hiding out of chilling strike and if done right entanglement as well. These are exploits if you will. No matter how good you play your class if the other player can cheat to win and they do, you will lose way more than you win. Pvp needs attention and everyone knows it. Well unless you are playing one of those classes that HAMSTER everyone face because those classes have little exploits and do way more damage then I believe was intended. Then of course you are not going to want change because it will be hardier for you to win.
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You aren't fooling anyone with that screenshot. CW always does a **** ton more damage than other classes in CN because you knock everything off the ledge after Beholder. TR basically just goes AFK until Dracolich, in which they still lose on damage because you're knocking a billion more mobs.

    There are absolutely piles of mobs at all times, Skele hallway being a prime example. Also the high amounts of Red Wizards and Deathlock Wights summoning little skeles for you to eat up.



    CW could never dream to do the same single target damage TR can. All of our damage looks nice and pretty because we're hitting a billion adds in Castle Never.

    First off you do not get the damage for knocking mobs off cliffs. Not that I have tracked. TR and even GF out dps my CW almost in every dungeon that I have ran up to this point. I have ran with TR that are doing 1 to 2 million more damage than my CW with a 1000 point lower GS than me. THis happens a lot really. Somthing does not seem right. TR are always top dps in almost every dungeon I have played in with 1 or 2 TR. I mean I have even seen GF out dps CW. This does not seem right at all.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    just got around to testing it and you can still get 2 pets fyi, better look at that issue again. both pets will fight for you too so it isn't just graphics..
  • blazing992blazing992 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Who's Whining? Pvp needs attention there is many bugs and exploits in pvp. Like TR rolling right out of entanglement. Hiding out of chilling strike and if done right entanglement as well. These are exploits if you will. No matter how good you play your class if the other player can cheat to win and they do, you will lose way more than you win. Pvp needs attention and everyone knows it. Well unless you are playing one of those classes that HAMSTER everyone face because those classes have little exploits and do way more damage then I believe was intended. Then of course you are not going to want change because it will be hardier for you to win.

    impossible to catch release us from entanglement effect, also rogues have a high CC resistence, you should learn mwore about other classes mechanic before come here and start whining about how you sucks, and everybody who kills you are a exploiter.



    @ applepotatoepie


    you get dmg point from the skill used to throw the mobs from the ledges but don't from they dieing on the pit because you don't killed them you just throwed them.
    avatar263030_1.jpg
    "Nerf paper. Scissors are just fine. Thanks." - Rock
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    <Do not insult people based on their ability to speak any language, thanks!>
  • kwsapphirekwsapphire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    talk about bugs, got a nasty storm here today that has disconnected me a couple of times, and lagged me to hell at points, my rogue was firing off double smoke clouds and the catch up damage from flourish made me not too pissed about it getting her pvp dailies. not sur eif it was really double cloud effects though, ppl didnt seem dazed longer thnan normal, might have just looked like it on my end when I lagged that was when id mash it to try and fire it off repeatedly though at first it was just panic trying to get it off at all. rubberbanding also saved my *** a lot lol. hope this storm lasts the night so long as it doesnt kick me too much more

    I've noticed a "double execution" on powers quite often - I hear the sound effects twice, I may see the gfx once or twice, but I think it only actually hits the mob once. I assumed it was some form of lag; I wonder if we're experiencig the same issue. (I play mostly on a Wizard, so it's a different set of powers that are doing it, but IIRC more than one has done it.)
    qtPt2I
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kwsapphire wrote: »
    I've noticed a "double execution" on powers quite often - I hear the sound effects twice, I may see the gfx once or twice, but I think it only actually hits the mob once. I assumed it was some form of lag; I wonder if we're experiencig the same issue. (I play mostly on a Wizard, so it's a different set of powers that are doing it, but IIRC more than one has done it.)

    Yeah it would seem that you cannot cc rogues anymore. They either stealth out of it, or they roll around like HAMSTER the hole match "No pun intended" and everything misses them. Or how about the fact that they can throw daggers at you and you cannot target them. Not sure how they are doing this but they are. I was fighting a rogue the other day and he was killing 2 or 3 of us without us ever being able to see him. Then you got GFs that are super hard to kill and they do a ton of damage. I am good at pvp and playing my CW but most of the time it would seem I am at a huge disadvantage especially one on one with these 2 classes.
  • zurkhonzurkhon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 390 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    dezstravus wrote: »
    Patch Notes
    • Companions can no longer be auto-summoned in certain states, which would occasionally leave the player with two Companions.

    Just dropping by to mention that this has not been fixed. Same exact BUG happened twice today.
    Sending companions to train and logging out then coming back later in the day still seems to randomly cause a chance for a duplicate companion.
    "Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."

    - Drizzt Do'Urden
    ― R.A. Salvatore
  • snakesandcakessnakesandcakes Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, I still get duplicate companions as of today.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Good to know you guys still experienced the issue. Now how about providing some more info, like where you were, what you were doing, what time it was, you know basic stuff, so that the Devs might have some idea of where to look to fix it. Just saying you have a problem doesn't help much.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kwsapphirekwsapphire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Good to know you guys still experienced the issue. Now how about providing some more info, like where you were, what you were doing, what time it was, you know basic stuff, so that the Devs might have some idea of where to look to fix it. Just saying you have a problem doesn't help much.

    I get the feeling the devs aren't watching this thread for this kind of feedback. People have been reporting since the patch went live that the companion bug isn't fixed, but there has been no official comment. Also, people are engaging in the same behaviors as before the patch, and the same behaviors are causing the duplicates.
    - Dismissing and resummoning a pet quickly can cause it.
    - Send your pet for training, log out, log back in later when the training is done. Randomly your companion may be waiting there, summoned, but you can summon again.
    qtPt2I
  • bloodletter24bloodletter24 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    <Do not insult people based on their ability to speak any language, thanks!>

    Omg are you serious?? But this guy can sit here and say I suck and talk trash? I was insulting his typing WOW!
This discussion has been closed.