you kinda nailed it down there, with one more thing to consider : the pve player camp did not yet see the full resullts of the broken economy. a pve player (w/o adding cash) is restricte3d to 500k ad in 21 days or something like that. again im stating nothing new here , but those 500k ad could buy alot more with a working economy, than they can now. its not the eco camp wanting to ruin the pve camp's fun or way of play. i think the argument just boils down to this : both camps really love the game, jsut the eco camp cant stand the fact that the game is getting shred down to a lvl of not beeing playable w/o putting cash in. and again : this should be the biggest argument on the pve camp side, still it is kinda only used by said eco camp.
wall of text, sorry
All the exploits in the game besides the AD duping bug are deflationary not inflationary, therefore with every bug but the AD duping one people who only have 500k can afford more not less.
you kinda nailed it down there, with one more thing to consider : the pve player camp did not yet see the full resullts of the broken economy. a pve player (w/o adding cash) is restricte3d to 500k ad in 21 days or something like that. again im stating nothing new here , but those 500k ad could buy alot more with a working economy, than they can now. its not the eco camp wanting to ruin the pve camp's fun or way of play. i think the argument just boils down to this : both camps really love the game, jsut the eco camp cant stand the fact that the game is getting shred down to a lvl of not beeing playable w/o putting cash in. and again : this should be the biggest argument on the pve camp side, still it is kinda only used by said eco camp.
wall of text, sorry
All the exploits in the game besides the AD duping bug are deflationary not inflationary, therefore with every bug but the AD duping one people who only have 500k can afford more not less.
All the exploits in the game besides the AD duping bug are deflationary not inflationary, therefore with every bug but the AD duping one people who only have 500k can afford more not less.
yep, engame items going for less than blue lvl 20's(talking extemely here) . BUT .....we had the AD exploit
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solresolMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I feel so inadequate that I have never found any of these exploits. My GF did once one shot someone in PvP with no clue why so guessing I stumbled onto something, but wasn't even bothered to figure out how it happened
It just blows me away how hard people think of ways to exploit.
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negnarlodenMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'd be interested to see the metrics showing what percentage of the players do lets say 5 or less transactions in the Auction House a week.
Obviously there are some players that live and breath virtual economies in MMOs, and other players that play for the rest of the game and could care less about the Auction House/Zen market. The players that live and breath virtual economies think the rest of the players are being selfish for not wanting a wipe, and the people that could care less about Auction Houses/Zen market think the virtual economists are being selfish for wanting a wipe.
Both camps don't want their fun interrupted. To wipe helps the economist camp but hurts the PvE player camp. To not wipe helps the PvE player camp but hurts the economist camp. I just think it's funny how both camps assume their camp has more of the player base behind them than the other camp. I'm guilty too, but I wonder how many people actually pause and consider this.
Well not rly... In many... most? of the cases a PvE player wants to beat the "endgame" for few things:
1) being proud that he was able to beat the "most-difficult" thing in the game
2) being able to show he has the best stuff in the game, be superior to another in terms of power coming from items
3) being able to get said items b4 anyone.
To do this he puts usually a lot of time into it. But all those things dissapear when anyone can get said items from an exploiter thats pumping up the "evidence" (endgame items) for very low sums into the world... Totally diminishing the 2 of the 3 things mentioned b4. If everyone has all the items, the strive for "getting better" which drives all the RPG's (and yes, dont kid yourself, if you love rpg, you love them bcouse of the development factor aswell as the story). So... bcouse of the exploits both sides loose, the PvE and the economy players
Which makes the game broken.....Why do you continue to even argue? It is pretty clear right now that you are in favor of a cheap ride to everything and do not want to lose what you have "worked so hard for "....Lol..Just stop, everyday the flimsy defense you used the day before has to be shored up with more blabbering.
How does this mechanic break the game exactly? You mean, it breaks your wallet when people undercut you, forcing you to either buy out their stuff and relist it, or lower your prices so you can sell it? This is exactly how a free market is supposed to function, which means it's not broken. All that's broken is the ability to roll need on everything because someone feels like they need to sell it.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
How does this mechanic break the game exactly? You mean, it breaks your wallet when people undercut you, forcing you to either buy out their stuff and relist it, or lower your prices so you can sell it? This is exactly how a free market is supposed to function, which means it's not broken. All that's broken is the ability to roll need on everything because someone feels like they need to sell it.
It breaks the economy because the game was not designed so that a 5 players can do 30 delve runs in a one hour event. That sort of influx of T2 sets throws everything off balance and punishes the legit players. For example, a legit player might be able to do one or two delve runs in an hour, and price his two drops at 50k a piece, which a reasonable price for his effort.
Meanwhile, the guys who did 30 delve runs can each price his 30 drops at 30k a piece, and make 10 times more AD than the legit player.
Basically:
Exploiter makes 1,000,000 AD
Legit player is undercut and can't even sell his 100k worth of drops
If you don't see how that breaks the economy, then I don't know what to tell you.
It is NOT a FEW cheap, it is a ****e ton of level 60 purple gear for buyouts of under 5K which would have been 100K-1m previously.
Now see....that's what it's worth to you.
What it's worth to me is more realistic for a bunch of pixels.
Please don't arbitrarily assign value to something based on your expectations. Pretty sure everyone has different ideas on this matter, hence the whole "bid what it's worth to you" auction house.
Yea...If you think this bug and the stam bug suck...Wait till you see what is in Queue ..
This almost sounds like you know what exploits are out there and being used and that also infers you're using them yourself. I'd be careful about how you say things.
This almost sounds like you know what exploits are out there and being used and that also infers you're using them yourself. I'd be careful about how you say things.
Just sayin'.
It most certainly does not indicate that I am or have been using them . I have made reports on my active accounts more than once for each bug I know of. I beta test as a hobby...When I was younger I would probably have made some money here. I am no longer in need of that form of income, I enjoy beta testing and playing legitimate games.
I have done nothing but stand up for what many feel is right, and frankly I am insulted that you would infer anything other than that from my post.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
It most certainly does not indicate that I am or have been using them . I have made reports on my active accounts more than once for each bug I know of. I beta test as a hobby...When I was younger I would probably have made some money here. I am no longer in need of that form of income, I enjoy beta testing and playing legitimate games.
I have done nothing but stand up for what many feel is right, and frankly I am insulted that you would infer anything other than that from my post.
Wellthen. At least now you know how it feels, what with that "people like you" drivel you spouted earlier. And I daresay that the way you worded that post likely led far more than just little ol' me to that conclusion. Mr. Paperwork ninja.
Spoilers: When Tier 3s and fours and fives come out, tier 2 will be useless. Think Burning Crusade for World of Warcraft. Greens in BC were better than T1 / T2 epics. So who cares if there are tons of tier 2s floating around? It'll fix itself when new content comes out. Even suggesting a wipe for something as simple as this is absurd. It'll work itself out quite easily.
People calling for a wipe crack me up. The majority of the community griped about a 7 hour rollback. Most people would quit playing if all of a sudden their characters were wiped. The majority of the community also could care less about your perceptions of a wrecked economy. But please keep the posts going, it's great entertainment!
its 2013 and you make ANYTHING client side and your just not caring about your customers but how many dollars you can rake in in the first few months
you have to either be stupid as **** and unable to put something to your mouth let alone develop a game, or just really not give a **** about the game but all about dollars to make an MMO with client side info
Except that smart exploiters uses alts to hide. You only see the tip of the iceberg.
Better be posting on the forums, and on your alts, behind a proxy. Multiple accounts are great until you realize your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> *** has been on the same IP between each alt, and all accounts get banned.
Most people get lazy, because proxy's are by nature, laggy, and its frustrating to play a game behind one.
Better be posting on the forums, and on your alts, behind a proxy. Multiple accounts are great until you realize your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> *** has been on the same IP between each alt, and all accounts get banned.
Most people get lazy, because proxy's are by nature, laggy, and its frustrating to play a game behind one.
And most people aren't exploiters.
And most exploiters aren't smart.
BUT the smart ones would take necessary precautions. Including obviously using multiple proxies.
Or to put another way. Do you really think all the goldspammers are from different people? They are the exact same group which are likely to be using exploits.
BUT the smart ones would take necessary precautions. Including obviously using multiple proxies.
Or to put another way. Do you really think all the goldspammers are from different people? They are the exact same group which are likely to be using exploits.
Obviously not, but you need to make it to where the lowest common denominator either cant exploit, or will get caught.
Wiping is almost useless now, or does anyone actually believe this has been the last of the exploits? These hacks are the easiest you can think of, a child could do them, imagine what the pros might have in store. Wiping only makes sense if you can be reasonably sure that you won't need another one later on.
Comments
Hey brains, maybe it's because knowledge doesn't come along financial power in real life?
Yeah, no. Doing it once and reporting it is beta testing it. Doing it many times and laughing about it in guild chat is exploiting.
All the exploits in the game besides the AD duping bug are deflationary not inflationary, therefore with every bug but the AD duping one people who only have 500k can afford more not less.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
All the exploits in the game besides the AD duping bug are deflationary not inflationary, therefore with every bug but the AD duping one people who only have 500k can afford more not less.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
Somehow I doubt they stopped to check if a person made a ticket after exploiting the AH.
yep, engame items going for less than blue lvl 20's(talking extemely here) . BUT .....we had the AD exploit
It just blows me away how hard people think of ways to exploit.
Well not rly... In many... most? of the cases a PvE player wants to beat the "endgame" for few things:
1) being proud that he was able to beat the "most-difficult" thing in the game
2) being able to show he has the best stuff in the game, be superior to another in terms of power coming from items
3) being able to get said items b4 anyone.
To do this he puts usually a lot of time into it. But all those things dissapear when anyone can get said items from an exploiter thats pumping up the "evidence" (endgame items) for very low sums into the world... Totally diminishing the 2 of the 3 things mentioned b4. If everyone has all the items, the strive for "getting better" which drives all the RPG's (and yes, dont kid yourself, if you love rpg, you love them bcouse of the development factor aswell as the story). So... bcouse of the exploits both sides loose, the PvE and the economy players
How does this mechanic break the game exactly? You mean, it breaks your wallet when people undercut you, forcing you to either buy out their stuff and relist it, or lower your prices so you can sell it? This is exactly how a free market is supposed to function, which means it's not broken. All that's broken is the ability to roll need on everything because someone feels like they need to sell it.
now i'm afraid to play. could be another rollback.
It breaks the economy because the game was not designed so that a 5 players can do 30 delve runs in a one hour event. That sort of influx of T2 sets throws everything off balance and punishes the legit players. For example, a legit player might be able to do one or two delve runs in an hour, and price his two drops at 50k a piece, which a reasonable price for his effort.
Meanwhile, the guys who did 30 delve runs can each price his 30 drops at 30k a piece, and make 10 times more AD than the legit player.
Basically:
Exploiter makes 1,000,000 AD
Legit player is undercut and can't even sell his 100k worth of drops
If you don't see how that breaks the economy, then I don't know what to tell you.
Now see....that's what it's worth to you.
What it's worth to me is more realistic for a bunch of pixels.
Please don't arbitrarily assign value to something based on your expectations. Pretty sure everyone has different ideas on this matter, hence the whole "bid what it's worth to you" auction house.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
This almost sounds like you know what exploits are out there and being used and that also infers you're using them yourself. I'd be careful about how you say things.
Just sayin'.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
It most certainly does not indicate that I am or have been using them . I have made reports on my active accounts more than once for each bug I know of. I beta test as a hobby...When I was younger I would probably have made some money here. I am no longer in need of that form of income, I enjoy beta testing and playing legitimate games.
I have done nothing but stand up for what many feel is right, and frankly I am insulted that you would infer anything other than that from my post.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Wellthen. At least now you know how it feels, what with that "people like you" drivel you spouted earlier. And I daresay that the way you worded that post likely led far more than just little ol' me to that conclusion. Mr. Paperwork ninja.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Honestly, keep zen, AD, levels, and gold, but wipe bags and bank.
economy fixed
PVE players less effected
you have to either be stupid as **** and unable to put something to your mouth let alone develop a game, or just really not give a **** about the game but all about dollars to make an MMO with client side info
Except that smart exploiters uses alts to hide. You only see the tip of the iceberg.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Better be posting on the forums, and on your alts, behind a proxy. Multiple accounts are great until you realize your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> *** has been on the same IP between each alt, and all accounts get banned.
Most people get lazy, because proxy's are by nature, laggy, and its frustrating to play a game behind one.
And most exploiters aren't smart.
BUT the smart ones would take necessary precautions. Including obviously using multiple proxies.
Or to put another way. Do you really think all the goldspammers are from different people? They are the exact same group which are likely to be using exploits.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Obviously not, but you need to make it to where the lowest common denominator either cant exploit, or will get caught.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.