I love this game and will continue to play it, but if they really are storing stuff client side I'd like to sit down and talk to the programmer that did that. Introduce them to the "Coding for MMO" bible. Pretty sure the first commandment is "Thou shalt not store sensitive, or game mechanic information client-side."
Are you sure 'Validate your input' isn't the number one?
Funny how some people around here seriously believe that dirt cheap end game gear is a good thing for everyone. The way I see it the only goal for any character in this completely instanced, dungeon crawl heavy game is to get stronger by acquiring new gear. This is achieved by completing end game content with your friends, guild or even random parties.
If that late game gear is easily acquired by anyone without actually completing any of the content presented then the whole flow of the game gets completely messed up. There is no motivation to play through late game dungeons anymore as there is nothing for you to get there that would make your toon stronger, thus there is no motivation for players to cooperate, come up with the strategies to defeat bosses, to try out new builds/new things/new team comps. Why bother with any of that if you can just buy all that gear for a few coins and enjoy looking at your toon in all its T2/T3/T4/whatever glory?
And when it comes to that, what is the point of palying the game anymore? To PvP all day long and complete new Foundry quests? I'd like to know how many days will anyone be able to play like this before getting bored out of his/her mind.
Funny how some people around here seriously believe that dirt cheap end game gear is a good thing for everyone. The way I see it the only goal for any character in this completely instanced, dungeon crawl heavy game is to get stronger by acquiring new gear. This is achieved by completing end game content with your friends, guild or even random parties.
If that late game gear is easily acquired by anyone without actually completing any of the content presented then the whole flow of the game gets completely messed up. There is no motivation to play through late game dungeons anymore as there is nothing for you to get there that would make your toon stronger, thus there is no motivation for players to cooperate, come up with the strategies to defeat bosses, to try out new builds/new things/new team comps. Why bother with any of that if you can just buy all that gear for a few coins and enjoy looking at your toon in all its T2/T3/T4/whatever glory?
And when it comes to that, what is the point of palying the game anymore? To PvP all day long and complete new Foundry quests? I'd like to know how many days will anyone be able to play like this before getting bored out of his/her mind.
I completely agree. Without progression or challenge then there's only emptiness. Imagine you can buy a fullset of T2 for less than 100K ... while it's exciting and fun at the start people gonna realize all content becomes trivial and there's really no point in playing.
Are you sure 'Validate your input' isn't the number one?
Not really, as it still falls under "don't trust the client". Validating your input client-side can be quite easily subverted in many cases, using a memory debugger to flip a branch around or similar.
With a smart developer, it can become an arms race, but that's not a consideration here
Yup.. they had to put some stuff on the client side for efficiency since this is an action game.
Mmmm they could have went GW2's route, from what I gather they have things clientside as well but it's sent to the client during logon and removed at logoff, pretty slick actually, but Anet has always done cool things with streaming clients
Yeah something must be terrible wrong I have maxed two characters my world has not collapsed, still having fun in fact. I think what's going to be the most amusing part of all this idiocy is the sheer rage we are going to see from the hate machine when the sky doesn't fall and the mass exodus doesn't happen.
Ten bucks says they will use the old "All the real gamers left it's now just n00bs and casuals." excuse that they use to explain STO's continued success.
I have seen this said in MWO... Apparently we all came here!;)
Just learned that for the past few days people have been using a new exploit to farm T2 bosses and delves that puts the Pirate King farm to shame. They have been stockpiling the loot from it in their mail/overflow bags waiting for the AH to come back up to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on the economy once again.
I have already reported it in-game a minute ago, might be a good idea for NWE to ban these people before bringing back up the AH and prevent further damage to the economy.
So I'm hearing more and more that all sorts of mechanics and stats are stored client side. Besides the obvious "WT*! Why the **** are they storing anything client side???", um... can anyone give a good reason they decided to store this stuff client side where a 7 year old kid could exploit it if they wanted to? Or are people just making this stuff up and important information really isn't store client side?
I love this game and will continue to play it, but if they really are storing stuff client side I'd like to sit down and talk to the programmer that did that. Introduce them to the "Coding for MMO" bible. Pretty sure the first commandment is "Thou shalt not store sensitive, or game mechanic information client-side."
nice joke, problem is realty does not work that way. alot of MMO have mechanics and stats on client systems, you name it. how could that be, because if everything done on server-side there are 2 basic problems:
1. not every place have steady internet speed
2. it will need more budget for the server
how to handle this, simply use 3rd party security sofware, some of you I believe already know this, they are like nprotect, gameguard, xtrap, etc, this software will detect the cheats you use for debugging the program.
ps: interupting the client mechanics using 3rd party software is not consider exploit, it is cheating. some game still consider exploiter so they just reset or delete character, but for cheater there is no excuse, perma ban is the answer
Mmmm they could have went GW2's route, from what I gather they have things clientside as well but it's sent to the client during logon and removed at logoff, pretty slick actually, but Anet has always done cool things with streaming clients
There's a tech for it..basically the whole game data is decompressed and decrypted from memory (that's why GW2 game data is a single 18GB file). Makes it a lot harder to hack. However such thing will require a higher game system requirement which will cut off some potential players with low end machine.
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preciousfaithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
its still in beta, is lots they can do, honestly i hope they close the doors, as long as they give back all the Zen people actually brought with real money, they might not even do that. If they are "recording" everything we do and people "talk" about the bugs glitches etc, Then when they close the doors they can fix everything even more. Honestly PWI is a good company and if you look into how high they are in the MMO market you will see Blizzard isnt too far ahead of PWI
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keegantir0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
So, it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't affect you negatively? How gracious of you.
Never said it doesn't matter. This thread was about the economy crashing and I posted that an exploit like this will not crash the economy. It still sucks for the car manufacturer that supply has gone up, but that is capitalism for you.
However, it will make it a bit cheaper for the small cadre of players with legitimately-gained zen too, after it hits 500 ad again also.
I've been watching prices and they started out rather sane at around 387-390 when the market returned, but as of this morning I was already seeing 430 and rising as people bought zen to resell for more later...
All that said, I still don't think this is as bad as most here make it out to be.
I've been watching prices and they started out rather sane at around 387-390 when the market returned, but as of this morning I was already seeing 430 and rising as people bought zen to resell for more later...
All that said, I still don't think this is as bad as most here make it out to be.
ZEN started at 500:1 at the start of open beta fell to 350 at one stage before the rollback, and is now is at 430ish. Seems that it is likely that there is more AD around.......
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've been watching prices and they started out rather sane at around 387-390 when the market returned, but as of this morning I was already seeing 430 and rising as people bought zen to resell for more later...
All that said, I still don't think this is as bad as most here make it out to be.
People have nothing to spend their AD's on atm. the AH is down, and most want keys in trade. Only way to buy a key, trade AD's for Zen. Once the AH opens back up, people will dump their AD's on the AH, and the cost of zen to AD will again begin to lower.
The gaming community will always find a way to barter and trade their goods. If u can't straight up trade AD's, u find something that is universally accepted. Keys have filled that slot atm.
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teepussiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Most companys ive seen is they get report of exploit and they close the area down if they cant instantly fix it. This game just keep everything as if its normal and maybe take their sweet time to work on the fix, unless you go shock and awe by public.
GF issue was known for a while and they did not even add bandaid, gateway exploit been there who knows how long and reported, couldnt for example hold out release of whole gateway if it could play such huge impact? Or well gateway issue almost goes to conspiracy folder of beign one of those easy backdoors to make illegal profits. Still overall most issues if its some boss or instance skipping bosses etc, why were instances just kept open normally, while they could be closed and added patches before reopening. Just makes you question how much of the exploit gains play in favor of someone inside.
its still in beta, is lots they can do, honestly i hope they close the doors, as long as they give back all the Zen people actually brought with real money, they might not even do that. If they are "recording" everything we do and people "talk" about the bugs glitches etc, Then when they close the doors they can fix everything even more. Honestly PWI is a good company and if you look into how high they are in the MMO market you will see Blizzard isnt too far ahead of PWI
Very true, PWE is in fact China's Blizzard, rabidly loyal fans who treat the devs like Rockstars, one thing I wished Cryptic would have done was let the PWE guys do the QA testing for the game...I can tell they didn't because when a PWE game is released very few bugs, but it may not have been possible because I hear they are tied up in a very hush project right now.
Never said it doesn't matter. This thread was about the economy crashing and I posted that an exploit like this will not crash the economy. It still sucks for the car manufacturer that supply has gone up, but that is capitalism for you.
Well, everyone knows life isn't fair. That's why we have games where things are supposedly equal.
I am considering rolling self found/no pushing of cliffs since i am not lvl 60 i can stil do this and enjoy the content as designed.
Self found has appeal, but in no way do I consider pushing mobs off cliffs or into pits anything other than a smart tactic. We were given those abilities for the same reasons pits were put in the game.
Because T2 gear is hard to get in the first place?
Every dungeon in this game can legitimately be beaten by people in full PvP gear. It's not hard at all.
So all this "T2 gear" is going to do nothing to the economy whatsoever. I have 2 characters full of BoE gear just from the few days the AH has been down and I never used an exploit to get any of it.
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laudon1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Because T2 gear is hard to get in the first place?
Every dungeon in this game can legitimately be beaten by people in full PvP gear. It's not hard at all.
So all this "T2 gear" is going to do nothing to the economy whatsoever. I have 2 characters full of BoE gear just from the few days the AH has been down and I never used an exploit to get any of it.
Funny how some people around here seriously believe that dirt cheap end game gear is a good thing for everyone. The way I see it the only goal for any character in this completely instanced, dungeon crawl heavy game is to get stronger by acquiring new gear. This is achieved by completing end game content with your friends, guild or even random parties.
It's the last sentence that bothers me. Why does the best gear have to be exclusive to endgame dungeons? I am happy to earn my gear, but FFS don't make another group up or give up MMO. Either provide longer, alternate methods to acquire that gear or keep it BoE.
I'd rather earn it than buy it, but I'd much rather buy it than be forced into a 'we all must play together' grade-school mentality for progressing my character.
It's the last sentence that bothers me. Why does the best gear have to be exclusive to endgame dungeons? I am happy to earn my gear, but FFS don't make another group up or give up MMO. Either provide longer, alternate methods to acquire that gear or keep it BoE.
I'd rather earn it than buy it, but I'd much rather buy it than be forced into a 'we all must play together' grade-school mentality for progressing my character.
What I never really understand is why people who don't want to do the most difficult content in the game need the best gear. What, really, is better gear going to do for you? Let you blow through solo content a few seconds faster? The entire gear progression scene is just a treadmill meant to keep people playing until the next set of gear and content is released, where you'll go back to grinding more gear so you're ready for the next set of new content.
It's one thing to put up with that kind of grind because you want to experience the new content when it releases, but if you don't even intend to get on the grouped instance treadmill then what does it matter? Do you really just play to see bigger numbers on your screen?
Comments
Are you sure 'Validate your input' isn't the number one?
If that late game gear is easily acquired by anyone without actually completing any of the content presented then the whole flow of the game gets completely messed up. There is no motivation to play through late game dungeons anymore as there is nothing for you to get there that would make your toon stronger, thus there is no motivation for players to cooperate, come up with the strategies to defeat bosses, to try out new builds/new things/new team comps. Why bother with any of that if you can just buy all that gear for a few coins and enjoy looking at your toon in all its T2/T3/T4/whatever glory?
And when it comes to that, what is the point of palying the game anymore? To PvP all day long and complete new Foundry quests? I'd like to know how many days will anyone be able to play like this before getting bored out of his/her mind.
Yup.. they had to put some stuff on the client side for efficiency since this is an action game.
I completely agree. Without progression or challenge then there's only emptiness. Imagine you can buy a fullset of T2 for less than 100K ... while it's exciting and fun at the start people gonna realize all content becomes trivial and there's really no point in playing.
Not really, as it still falls under "don't trust the client". Validating your input client-side can be quite easily subverted in many cases, using a memory debugger to flip a branch around or similar.
With a smart developer, it can become an arms race, but that's not a consideration here
Mmmm they could have went GW2's route, from what I gather they have things clientside as well but it's sent to the client during logon and removed at logoff, pretty slick actually, but Anet has always done cool things with streaming clients
SWEEETTTT !!!! Cheap armor sets. can't wait !!!
TY exploiters !!!
nice joke, problem is realty does not work that way. alot of MMO have mechanics and stats on client systems, you name it. how could that be, because if everything done on server-side there are 2 basic problems:
1. not every place have steady internet speed
2. it will need more budget for the server
how to handle this, simply use 3rd party security sofware, some of you I believe already know this, they are like nprotect, gameguard, xtrap, etc, this software will detect the cheats you use for debugging the program.
ps: interupting the client mechanics using 3rd party software is not consider exploit, it is cheating. some game still consider exploiter so they just reset or delete character, but for cheater there is no excuse, perma ban is the answer
There's a tech for it..basically the whole game data is decompressed and decrypted from memory (that's why GW2 game data is a single 18GB file). Makes it a lot harder to hack. However such thing will require a higher game system requirement which will cut off some potential players with low end machine.
Never said it doesn't matter. This thread was about the economy crashing and I posted that an exploit like this will not crash the economy. It still sucks for the car manufacturer that supply has gone up, but that is capitalism for you.
I've been watching prices and they started out rather sane at around 387-390 when the market returned, but as of this morning I was already seeing 430 and rising as people bought zen to resell for more later...
All that said, I still don't think this is as bad as most here make it out to be.
ZEN started at 500:1 at the start of open beta fell to 350 at one stage before the rollback, and is now is at 430ish. Seems that it is likely that there is more AD around.......
People have nothing to spend their AD's on atm. the AH is down, and most want keys in trade. Only way to buy a key, trade AD's for Zen. Once the AH opens back up, people will dump their AD's on the AH, and the cost of zen to AD will again begin to lower.
The gaming community will always find a way to barter and trade their goods. If u can't straight up trade AD's, u find something that is universally accepted. Keys have filled that slot atm.
GF issue was known for a while and they did not even add bandaid, gateway exploit been there who knows how long and reported, couldnt for example hold out release of whole gateway if it could play such huge impact? Or well gateway issue almost goes to conspiracy folder of beign one of those easy backdoors to make illegal profits. Still overall most issues if its some boss or instance skipping bosses etc, why were instances just kept open normally, while they could be closed and added patches before reopening. Just makes you question how much of the exploit gains play in favor of someone inside.
Very true, PWE is in fact China's Blizzard, rabidly loyal fans who treat the devs like Rockstars, one thing I wished Cryptic would have done was let the PWE guys do the QA testing for the game...I can tell they didn't because when a PWE game is released very few bugs, but it may not have been possible because I hear they are tied up in a very hush project right now.
I suppose they can still use mail, but would make it a little bit more inconvenient.
Well, everyone knows life isn't fair. That's why we have games where things are supposedly equal.
Every dungeon in this game can legitimately be beaten by people in full PvP gear. It's not hard at all.
So all this "T2 gear" is going to do nothing to the economy whatsoever. I have 2 characters full of BoE gear just from the few days the AH has been down and I never used an exploit to get any of it.
dis ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dragon Guild
(sarcasm)
Eh. I'd rather not have to deal with that. I hate BOP.
Bingo!!!!!!
It's the last sentence that bothers me. Why does the best gear have to be exclusive to endgame dungeons? I am happy to earn my gear, but FFS don't make another group up or give up MMO. Either provide longer, alternate methods to acquire that gear or keep it BoE.
I'd rather earn it than buy it, but I'd much rather buy it than be forced into a 'we all must play together' grade-school mentality for progressing my character.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks
What I never really understand is why people who don't want to do the most difficult content in the game need the best gear. What, really, is better gear going to do for you? Let you blow through solo content a few seconds faster? The entire gear progression scene is just a treadmill meant to keep people playing until the next set of gear and content is released, where you'll go back to grinding more gear so you're ready for the next set of new content.
It's one thing to put up with that kind of grind because you want to experience the new content when it releases, but if you don't even intend to get on the grouped instance treadmill then what does it matter? Do you really just play to see bigger numbers on your screen?