They should not be taking money until beta is over. Want to call it beta? Fine, dont take money. Then when insane exploits that floor the entire economy of multiple games happen, they can just roll it back and wipe it.
The error made here is calling it beta -AND- taking money at the same time.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They should not be taking money until beta is over. Want to call it beta? Fine, dont take money. Then when insane exploits that floor the entire economy of multiple games happen, they can just roll it back and wipe it.
The error made here is calling it beta -AND- taking money at the same time.
It is common to have investors pay money during beta testing of software in exchange for early access to beta, cosmetic items, game titles, etc.
They should not be taking money until beta is over. Want to call it beta? Fine, dont take money. Then when insane exploits that floor the entire economy of multiple games happen, they can just roll it back and wipe it.
The error made here is calling it beta -AND- taking money at the same time.
Games require money for development, a cash shop is just a different method of gathering funds rather than going through money lenders that will usually try to dictate what the game should be rather than letting the makers of the game make it what it needs to be. No matter how people want to label it, its a game in development.
Actually there's a pretty easy way to determine if it's beta or live.
Open your Neverwinter Directory first. Inside is 2 more directories, localdata and Neverwinter, along with CrypticError.exe, dbghelp.dll, ERRORS.TXT, Neverwinter.exe, PCL.TXT and Uninstall Neverwinter.exe.
It is common to have investors pay money during beta testing of software in exchange for early access to beta, cosmetic items, game titles, etc.
Nowdays yes, but previously companies gave rewards for testing the game, not making them pay for it AND test the game.
The fact that its standard practice is whats causing this issue where they dont want to wipe due to a high impact exploitation of their unfinished product, due to the fact that they took money in for it already.
The fact that its standard practice doesnt make it right. Had they not taken money during the beta, they could have wiped already and this issue would not exist.
It's getting old seeing this in response to any complaint. This game stopped being "In beta" the minute they started taking real money from people and promised no wipes.
If you're going to say something like "they needed to test the cash shop"...
1) It's already been extensively tested in STO.
2) That could have easily been tested by giving everyone a stipend of Zen with the understanding all would be wiped before launch.
EH WRONG it's official listed as an open beta, Your opinion means nothing this is a simple fact regardless of what you want to think.
Games require money for development, a cash shop is just a different method of gathering funds rather than going through money lenders that will usually try to dictate what the game should be rather than letting the makers of the game make it what it needs to be. No matter how people want to label it, its a game in development.
By that definition they can call it beta for the rest of its existance, and use the "its still in beta" excuse to dismiss any concern regarding high impact exploits, and fixing issues.
EH WRONG it's official listed as an open beta, Your opinion means nothing this is a simple fact regardless of what you want to think.
The simple fact is that they took money, which is preventing them from wiping the server in order to fix high impact exploits.
Taking money + promise of no wipe - sounds like a live game ot me. If you disagree, tell us what the difference is between the game now versus the game when its launched will be.
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neridiumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Whatever the folder is called doesn't matter, it could have been called Barney Rubble, Fred Flintstone or Xena warrior princess as far as I'm concerned if Cryptic say its open beta thats exactly what it is.
My only wondering about this whole affair is Open Beta usually lasts about 4 weeks, but the game imo is far from ready to be released as a full release candidate.
It is common to have investors pay money during beta testing of software in exchange for early access to beta, cosmetic items, game titles, etc.
For games that take money prior to a release...it is usually called a PRE_ORDER. In this case, they had founder packs with bonus fluffy items for those that game them money up front for this product. But with the Zen shop open, the game is hardly 'beta' but release.
Here is why *I* say it is release:
1) ANYONE can make an account. There is no 'pay <x> amount for access to the servers
2) Cash shop is TAKING RL MONEY. A 'beta' should not allow this
3) No Character wipes. Release games do not have 'wipes'. A beta seems to elude to having a wipe of some kind.
The game is in release state. There is no defining differential between a game like theirs that is in release and this, which they slapped a title of 'open beta'. Yes, sure, testing even happens with 'Live' games. What a shocker. Bugs and exploits happen with 'Live' games. What a shocker. Extended downtime happens with 'Live' games. WHAT A SHOCKER!!!!!
The only difference between Cryptic's 'release' and 'open-beta' is the shell game they are playing with 'status' of their game. If they were not taking CASH for Zen for Neverwinter while in this open beta, I'd be inclined to call it beta. But since they are taking money, they are release. I'm sorry, that is how it is.
I am not arguing the cash shop model or that they 'need to make money'. I am arguing that if their game is truly in a 'beta' state then they shouldn't be taking ZEN shop (not founder packs or the like, but ZEN) money until they officially announce the game as live. But since they are keeping tight to their 'it's open beta' it makes me wonder what wool they are pulling over people's eyes. What kind of a shell game they are playing with people's money.
It's Live, no doubts. Hell the game even says so on YOUR HD. Go check. See my post above. THere's no way to refute that at this point. PWE is using the beta phrasing as a legal mechanism to sidestep legal issues resulting from bugs, et al. The game is live, and the website and patcher are simply reporting the game for the aforementioned reasons.
Given that, there will be no wipe, period. It's not going to happen, so all you people threatening to leave, please find the nearest exit and do so.
Whatever the folder is called doesn't matter, it could have been called Barney Rubble, Fred Flintstone or Xena warrior princess as far as I'm concerned if Cryptic say its open beta thats exactly what it is.
My only wondering about this whole affair is Open Beta usually lasts about 4 weeks, but the game imo is far from ready to be released as a full release candidate.
If it were beta, it would have been named beta on the HD. Simply disregarding it is, at best, poor rationalization for something that's simply not the case.
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neridiumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If it were beta, it would have been named beta on the HD. Simply disregarding it is, at best, poor rationalization for something that's simply not the case.
Have you ever thought by labelling the folder "Live" it would stop people from having two copies of the game on the PC, and save HD space, and you wouldn't have to re download the full game client when it goes "Live"?
It looks like its called "Live" so when the full release candidate is ready it'll just patch over the top of it and replace any files that need replacing etc. Actually its a pretty good thing for Cryptic to do because it means its customer's who have download limits per month wont get half of a client or whatever and have to wait until the following month to get the rest or pay per gb etc.
I envy whomever believes this is still in beta simply because Cryptic says so. They must be some of the lucky ones who have not been lied to or deceived by another software developer yet. Or should I say have not played a recent EA title.
The only difference between Cryptic's 'release' and 'open-beta' is the shell game they are playing with 'status' of their game. If they were not taking CASH for Zen for Neverwinter while in this open beta, I'd be inclined to call it beta. But since they are taking money, they are release. I'm sorry, that is how it is.
Well, Legacy of Romulus expansion for STO was just like a regular beta. Zen store was disabled and characters made in the beta couldn't be transferred to live servers.
Definitions of “beta” or “live” or any shade between the two really aren’t very useful here. The basic truth is that there is no real standard for what constitutes a beta. If they say its beta then that’s what it is in the eyes of anyone who might care.
The devious portion of this game is the exact passion play being enacted in this tread. Someone believes that Cryptic’s behavior should be more responsible especially because they are taking people’s money and returning them handfuls of bugs in return. These people want it to be live because that carries with it a weight of culpability. But Cryptic wants time to make the process of taking people’s money truly perfect and the game is just the way to keep people in front of the store. So the deniability of beta works just fine for them. Once the cash side of the business is humming away just fine, then they can make it live, yeah game, whatever.
But there is no rule, no law, nothing that determines beta status except the owning company. You may disagree with their assertion but I don’t think that will turn them from their course. Any idealistic definition of the concept of “beta” is just a personal belief. Not that I don’t share your beliefs because I think I do. But they get indemnity until they choose to give it up. Ollie Ollie Oxenfree.
It is common to have investors pay money during beta testing of software in exchange for early access to beta, cosmetic items, game titles, etc.
As a total aside, an investor traditionally owns a portion of whatever it is in which they are investing. Take a look at your evenings and tell me. How much of PWE do you own and how much of you does PWE own?
I envy whomever believes this is still in beta simply because Cryptic says so. They must be some of the lucky ones who have not been lied to or deceived by another software developer yet. Or should I say have not played a recent EA title.
Its like if you own a cat called Sparky, thats his or her name until you decide otherwise. NW is Cryptic's game and if they say its Beta thats exactly what it is. Whether it has elements of a live game or not. To be honest from what i've seen there's elements of things that says to me it should be in Alpha and not Beta. I've Beta tested quite a few games over the years and while I've seen some truly facepalming things in games, these were fixed. Open Beta usually lasts about a month and next week will be week 4 and usually when the game is released, and as i've said previously i dont think this game is ready.
Oh and for the record I haven't bought a EA game for about 5 years.
It's a Beta and that is obvious to any who understand the concept, stop using it as an excuse for whining.
hahahaha you have it backwards. The only reason people care that you fanboys call it beta is because on every legit issue thread on the forum you guys jump in with all of the "don't complain it's only beta" BS. If the beta believers would quit trying to force all to think it's beta there would be no arguments and all could peacefully have their own opinions.
If Cryptic can re-define the word beta to suit their needs then how about I ask for a 1000$ "loan", only my definition of loan actually means "a grant" and do not have to pay it back. Is that ok?
They cannot use a widely and generally accepted term and have it mean something else.
Just for laughs.. Dictionary.com definition of " beta test"
Computers. a quality-control technique in which hardware or software is subjected to trial in the environment for which it was designed, usually after debugging by the manufacturer and immediately prior to marketing. Compare alpha test.
Look this is not Beta. They can call it Beta all they want but if they are taking money from customers it is not beta. Beta is a phase of testing BEFORE commercial release. Neverwinter's cash register is running full speed ahead.
Pretty soon AAA gaming companies will start using kick starter just get our gaming money quicker. Over all gaming companies are just producing the same dungeon runner over and over again, and leave it to the marketing departments to make it sounds unique. I know most people reading this will not agree and that's fine. Well actually it is not fine, it is the reason we are in this cycle, and they just don't realize or care, I am not sure which.
hahahaha you have it backwards. The only reason people care that you fanboys call it beta is because on every legit issue thread on the forum you guys jump in with all of the "don't complain it's only beta" BS. If the beta believers would quit trying to force all to think it's beta there would be no arguments and all could peacefully have their own opinions.
You should discontinue beta testing Neverwinter and return when the game is released as you miss the entire point of having an open beta...
Comments
The error made here is calling it beta -AND- taking money at the same time.
In any Beta, exploiting for the purpose of gaining advantage upon release is grounds for dismissal from the Beta.
These people are not "bug testing".
It is common to have investors pay money during beta testing of software in exchange for early access to beta, cosmetic items, game titles, etc.
Open your Neverwinter Directory first. Inside is 2 more directories, localdata and Neverwinter, along with CrypticError.exe, dbghelp.dll, ERRORS.TXT, Neverwinter.exe, PCL.TXT and Uninstall Neverwinter.exe.
Open up the Neverwinter directory.
There's your answer.
You're welcome.
Nowdays yes, but previously companies gave rewards for testing the game, not making them pay for it AND test the game.
The fact that its standard practice is whats causing this issue where they dont want to wipe due to a high impact exploitation of their unfinished product, due to the fact that they took money in for it already.
The fact that its standard practice doesnt make it right. Had they not taken money during the beta, they could have wiped already and this issue would not exist.
EH WRONG it's official listed as an open beta, Your opinion means nothing this is a simple fact regardless of what you want to think.
By that definition they can call it beta for the rest of its existance, and use the "its still in beta" excuse to dismiss any concern regarding high impact exploits, and fixing issues.
The simple fact is that they took money, which is preventing them from wiping the server in order to fix high impact exploits.
Taking money + promise of no wipe - sounds like a live game ot me. If you disagree, tell us what the difference is between the game now versus the game when its launched will be.
My only wondering about this whole affair is Open Beta usually lasts about 4 weeks, but the game imo is far from ready to be released as a full release candidate.
For games that take money prior to a release...it is usually called a PRE_ORDER. In this case, they had founder packs with bonus fluffy items for those that game them money up front for this product. But with the Zen shop open, the game is hardly 'beta' but release.
Here is why *I* say it is release:
1) ANYONE can make an account. There is no 'pay <x> amount for access to the servers
2) Cash shop is TAKING RL MONEY. A 'beta' should not allow this
3) No Character wipes. Release games do not have 'wipes'. A beta seems to elude to having a wipe of some kind.
The game is in release state. There is no defining differential between a game like theirs that is in release and this, which they slapped a title of 'open beta'. Yes, sure, testing even happens with 'Live' games. What a shocker. Bugs and exploits happen with 'Live' games. What a shocker. Extended downtime happens with 'Live' games. WHAT A SHOCKER!!!!!
The only difference between Cryptic's 'release' and 'open-beta' is the shell game they are playing with 'status' of their game. If they were not taking CASH for Zen for Neverwinter while in this open beta, I'd be inclined to call it beta. But since they are taking money, they are release. I'm sorry, that is how it is.
I am not arguing the cash shop model or that they 'need to make money'. I am arguing that if their game is truly in a 'beta' state then they shouldn't be taking ZEN shop (not founder packs or the like, but ZEN) money until they officially announce the game as live. But since they are keeping tight to their 'it's open beta' it makes me wonder what wool they are pulling over people's eyes. What kind of a shell game they are playing with people's money.
Given that, there will be no wipe, period. It's not going to happen, so all you people threatening to leave, please find the nearest exit and do so.
Nope
If it were beta, it would have been named beta on the HD. Simply disregarding it is, at best, poor rationalization for something that's simply not the case.
Have you ever thought by labelling the folder "Live" it would stop people from having two copies of the game on the PC, and save HD space, and you wouldn't have to re download the full game client when it goes "Live"?
It looks like its called "Live" so when the full release candidate is ready it'll just patch over the top of it and replace any files that need replacing etc. Actually its a pretty good thing for Cryptic to do because it means its customer's who have download limits per month wont get half of a client or whatever and have to wait until the following month to get the rest or pay per gb etc.
Well, Legacy of Romulus expansion for STO was just like a regular beta. Zen store was disabled and characters made in the beta couldn't be transferred to live servers.
The devious portion of this game is the exact passion play being enacted in this tread. Someone believes that Cryptic’s behavior should be more responsible especially because they are taking people’s money and returning them handfuls of bugs in return. These people want it to be live because that carries with it a weight of culpability. But Cryptic wants time to make the process of taking people’s money truly perfect and the game is just the way to keep people in front of the store. So the deniability of beta works just fine for them. Once the cash side of the business is humming away just fine, then they can make it live, yeah game, whatever.
But there is no rule, no law, nothing that determines beta status except the owning company. You may disagree with their assertion but I don’t think that will turn them from their course. Any idealistic definition of the concept of “beta” is just a personal belief. Not that I don’t share your beliefs because I think I do. But they get indemnity until they choose to give it up. Ollie Ollie Oxenfree.
As a total aside, an investor traditionally owns a portion of whatever it is in which they are investing. Take a look at your evenings and tell me. How much of PWE do you own and how much of you does PWE own?
Beta, right.
This game is clearly a beta
IGN: Obscura Rouge 60 , GS 9k
Handel @Kysis020
Its like if you own a cat called Sparky, thats his or her name until you decide otherwise. NW is Cryptic's game and if they say its Beta thats exactly what it is. Whether it has elements of a live game or not. To be honest from what i've seen there's elements of things that says to me it should be in Alpha and not Beta. I've Beta tested quite a few games over the years and while I've seen some truly facepalming things in games, these were fixed. Open Beta usually lasts about a month and next week will be week 4 and usually when the game is released, and as i've said previously i dont think this game is ready.
Oh and for the record I haven't bought a EA game for about 5 years.
The fact the game plays like a beta when in fact it is LIVE, well that is an entirely different subject....
hahahaha you have it backwards. The only reason people care that you fanboys call it beta is because on every legit issue thread on the forum you guys jump in with all of the "don't complain it's only beta" BS. If the beta believers would quit trying to force all to think it's beta there would be no arguments and all could peacefully have their own opinions.
They cannot use a widely and generally accepted term and have it mean something else.
Just for laughs.. Dictionary.com definition of " beta test"
Computers. a quality-control technique in which hardware or software is subjected to trial in the environment for which it was designed, usually after debugging by the manufacturer and immediately prior to marketing. Compare alpha test.
Prior to marketing....
Pretty soon AAA gaming companies will start using kick starter just get our gaming money quicker. Over all gaming companies are just producing the same dungeon runner over and over again, and leave it to the marketing departments to make it sounds unique. I know most people reading this will not agree and that's fine. Well actually it is not fine, it is the reason we are in this cycle, and they just don't realize or care, I am not sure which.
You should discontinue beta testing Neverwinter and return when the game is released as you miss the entire point of having an open beta...