See the thing about your "idea" is it's a valuable tool used by a community of people who back each other up... unfortunately due to how our current generation and culture is we're only out for ourselves and as long as someone who had no value in said systems isn't affected he will always oppose you and then there's the white knights who would never believe anything is ever wrong...
uhhh yeah man... definitely must be that... wasn't that way prior to the exploit but absolutely must be that now... must be the sheerest of coincidences that everyone on a Tuesday is home logged in and swapping currencies...
^
Market on weekdays is usually about as low as 350/1. With the weekends hitting 400/1
For that guy to deny anything is funny about the exchange rate must be inhaling fumes.
Market on weekdays is usually about as low as 350/1. With the weekends hitting 400/1
For that guy to deny anything is funny about the exchange rate must be inhaling fumes.
Explain. There's a good reason why the exchange rate differs between weekday and weekend: More people on weekend, higher demand. You would also notice a similar, lesser difference between peek and offpeak periods.
Offnote: There is an arbitrage opportunity because of this, however, be warned that arbitrage is extremely risky, especially in the current environment where the market simply isn't stable.
The difference is that the AD/Z exchange rate offers evidence for the claim that there is no problem, and that the majority of the damage has been fixed.
As I said before, no, it doesn't. The AH exchange rate only offers evidence, that the majority that joined the failwagon last weekend are now gone. It doesn't prove, that the original exploiters are gone or even that they exist or don't exist. The market is too large and neither you not I have the necessary data to analyze it. Your theories lack evidence just as mine do. I'm merely pointing out, that your theory is as good as any other and doesn't disprove any other theories.
On the other hand, the claim that there are large amounts of cats or illegitimate AD out there is backed up by nothing. If you make a claim that isn't backed up by something that is clearly visible and can be verified by everyone, like the AD/Z exchange rate, the burden of proof is on you.
PvP doesn't matter because there is no competitive framework in the game. No rankings, no titles, no material rewards that matter (the PvP set is not very useful). There is no element of competition. Join a premade with plain T2 items (not CN suff) and you win 99% of all games anyway, without ever facing a challenge. A solo queuer gets stomped as it is. (Let's be realistic here, PvP at 60 is all about 2-shotting people, so more damage actually barely matters because stuff like Enfeebling Ray kills you anyway.)
No, it doesn't mean those items will be expensive. The number of people clearing CN is increasing every day and the supply is steadily increasing. If there are people with exploited AD, their equipment needs will be satisfied very quickly and prices tumble (they HAVE tumbled, so this is backed up by what you can verify in the game). Even if they were high, it would also mean that non-exploiters can sell their items or materials at higher prices, too. If everything costs three times more than before, everything also sells for three times more than before.
I actually put forth the theory that even if there had been no rollback, the exploit would not have been really bad for anyone except PWE and people who bought AD previously. It would have made cats cheaper, it would have yielded higher prices for everything in the AH (meaning players would have made more AD, which would have make AD prices for in-game services cheaper, such as removing runes/enchants), and everything would have been essentially the same, just with higher numbers. (Admittedly, trading AD for Zen would have been harder, but that does hurt PWE because there would be less incentive to buy Zen to trade for AD and get a cat, mount upgrade, etc.).
PvP is a part of the game, it's competitive, it's fun and, for a lot of people (judging by how fast queues pop even when there's no event going on) it's a major asset of the game. AD selling and things like that transfer the riches from the ones who focus their efforts in the game to people, who focus their efforts on other things but have the money to speedrun themselves through content, which is bad. For the playerbase, for the economy and for PWE as well.
Regards,
Kalantris
0
steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No, it's not competitive (at its current state). You gain nothing from doing it except for completing a daily. No ratings, nothing. It's not balanced enough to make it fair, too much gear dependant and some classes have obvious advantages.
Also, no difference between PUGs and premades. It's extremely casual.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
teepussiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Beholder shard its 380~ area atm. I would expect price of Zen to go up atm, as people are keeping their Zen or the big buys are already behind, theres no reason to throw in Zen towards the AD market. Still to be seen. Not to mention AH is closed so there is no fast AD buys no matter the rate.
Explain. There's a good reason why the exchange rate differs between weekday and weekend: More people on weekend, higher demand. You would also notice a similar, lesser difference between peek and offpeak periods.
Offnote: There is an arbitrage opportunity because of this, however, be warned that arbitrage is extremely risky, especially in the current environment where the market simply isn't stable.
What I was getting at, is that there is a significant increase in rates. I can understand the numbers going up or down 20 points here and there within a given 2-week span, but this is a def significant increase indicating that all those AD's that were in the system have not, in fact, been completely removed.
~Edit~
I actually have a notepad that I have when I started playing. I'd note down all fluctuations in the price. So from the time the exchange seemed fine up until now has seen a dramatic increase in exchange prices.
People keep saying the market is "fine" but I beg to differ.
Yes I understand market prices also fluctuate but the amount of increase in exchange compared to the fact that what happened was only a few days ago also proves that all those diamonds are still not out of the system.
What I was getting at, is that there is a significant increase in rates. I can understand the numbers going up or down 20 points here and there within a given 2-week span, but this is a def significant increase indicating that all those AD's that were in the system have not, in fact, been completely removed.
I touched on this in another post:
* The exchange had not been up for several days, so AD built up and people were selling them as soon as they could. There is also some insecurity about the situation, which is heavily fed by people who keep making unverified claims, so this causes more people to offer AD (selling before they no longer sell, from their perspective) ...
* Due to the insecurity and the unfounded claims, there are fewer people who are willing to spend Zen right now (wait and see).
* The AH is also down, so there is no immediate need for AD, further making it less likely that people buy AD.
I'm someone who has bought maybe close to 20M AD since the headstart. I have 22k Zen in my exchange balance. However, in the current situation I won't buy additional AD, and besides, I have no actual need for AD (AH is down, and I have cats for the characters that I want a cat for).
So, the supply is higher than the demand and as a result the exchange rate goes up for some time. This is related to the exploit, but it is unrelated to the actual amount of AD in the economy. It is a psychological issue, and one of the AH not being up.
* The exchange had not been up for several days, so AD built up and people were selling them as soon as they could. There is also some insecurity about the situation, which is heavily fed by people who keep making unverified claims, so this causes more people to offer AD (selling before they no longer sell, from their perspective) ...
* Due to the insecurity and the unfounded claims, there are fewer people who are willing to spend Zen right now (wait and see).
* The AH is also down, so there is no immediate need for AD, further making it less likely that people buy AD.
I'm someone who has bought maybe close to 20M AD since the headstart. I have 22k Zen in my exchange balance. However, in the current situation I won't buy additional AD, and besides, I have no actual need for AD (AH is down, and I have cats for the characters that I want a cat for).
So, the supply is higher than the demand and as a result the exchange rate goes up for some time. This is related to the exploit, but it is unrelated to the actual amount of AD in the economy. It is a psychological issue, and one of the AH not being up.
To add to this, one has to consider that the market hasn't stabilized to start off with. There was a huge influx of AD from the beginning, one which likely wouldn't be repeated in such a large extent (other than for exploits) in future. The game has barely been publicly up for 3 weeks, of which one weekend was lost thanks to the exploit. 2 datapoints, from when the situation isn't even stable, isn't sufficient to determine what the stable value should be.
Also, I have been noting roughly the movement of Zen/AD trade, and have noted that it had been slowly reducing until the exploit. Current levels isn't accurate thanks to a core AD sink not being available.
gdante7111111Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 227Arc User
edited May 2013
The reason ah was broken was because of greedy people, for example selling something for 20.000 ad. If I get something rare or companion, I will not sell it for the amount someone posts on ah. I will sell it for 4.000 or so ad, because I am not greedy.
To add to this, one has to consider that the market hasn't stabilized to start off with. There was a huge influx of AD from the beginning, one which likely wouldn't be repeated in such a large extent (other than for exploits) in future. The game has barely been publicly up for 3 weeks, of which one weekend was lost thanks to the exploit. 2 datapoints, from when the situation isn't even stable, isn't sufficient to determine what the stable value should be.
Also, I have been noting roughly the movement of Zen/AD trade, and have noted that it had been slowly reducing until the exploit. Current levels isn't accurate thanks to a core AD sink not being available.
I'm not disagreeing with this point of thinking at all. Just saying that this isn't the same case as in on DRAGON server. The highest I saw the day before Caturday was ~500/1.
I'm not disagreeing with this point of thinking at all. Just saying that this isn't the same case as in on DRAGON server. The highest I saw the day before Caturday was ~500/1.
It was only at 500:1 during headstart when the founders dumped their AD. I checked every day multiple times since the beta started and the exchange range steadily and consistently went down each day. We were at 365:1 even on Caturday morning. Then within minutes it shot up to 450 and 500:1. I wish I had written down the daily numbers so that I could offer a graph.
Are you kidding me cryptic, its almost back to 500 AD / 1 Zen but the economy is not broken?
This is the biggest load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, you didn't do anything to clean up the market, you just slapped some hands, ban 1 out of 3 exploiters accounts, and the market is FUBAR!
Good luck!
I will play your game, but not spend another dime on it.... Hope lots of others follow in that practice too, see how long the servers run with no money to support it!
Zen to AD price is placed by players, idiot, if players buy zen for that price, its players own fault. Think of apple customers, they will pay rudiculous sums for something a sane human would get for half the price.
Exactly same thing here, the price is high, because people buy it for that kind of AD.
It couldn't also have to do with the auction being down right? Nobody has means to sell their items for AD, so if they need larger amounts of AD they have to use the exchange.
Having to use the exchange makes demand go up, supply go down. Which in turn makes the cost of AD per zen go up.
It's just common sense, something 99% of the people who are on the forums seem to lack.
It couldn't also have to do with the auction being down right? Nobody has means to sell their items for AD, so if they need larger amounts of AD they have to use the exchange.
Having to use the exchange makes demand go up, supply go down. Which in turn makes the cost of AD per zen go up.
It's just common sense, something 99% of the people who are on the forums seem to lack.
Try dumbing it down.
If the drive thru is closed at lunchtime, the number of patrons inside goes up causing a longer wait
This might be slightly off topic, but is there a reason that each server has its own ZD exchange?
Is it linked somehow to the auction system and separate server personal income (e.g. players on dragon may be overall richer than those on mindflayer)?
I don't see any obvious reason that we shouldn't have one collective exchange rate over all servers since they will be eventually merged anyway. I know economies will be different from server to server and that might effect the rate a bit, but I don't see why that would necessitate different exchanges.
Wouldn't having just the one exchange help even out the rate for everyone? - Some servers (due to player income)might have an advantage , but overall it would even itself out.
This might be slightly off topic, but is there a reason that each server has its own ZD exchange?
Is it linked somehow to the auction system and separate server personal income (e.g. players on dragon may be overall richer than those on mindflayer)?
I don't see any obvious reason that we shouldn't have one collective exchange rate over all servers since they will be eventually merged anyway. I know economies will be different from server to server and that might effect the rate a bit, but I don't see why that would necessitate different exchanges.
Wouldn't having just the one exchange help even out the rate for everyone? - Some servers (due to player income)might have an advantage , but overall it would even itself out.
Servers will be merged soon, so engineering that would be pointless.
This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the exchange was down for nearly two days and people want to unload their legitimately gained astral diamonds for Zen, of course not, it has to be about the exploits no other logical explanation.
Relax, take a deep breath, and post again in two days when the economy has a chance to normalize after extended downtime.
One has to wonder, when the AH is back up and people flood the market with the purples they've been farming will you then say that the market price crash is a result of exploits?
Your being naive if you really believe this. Personally I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as I new this would happen with this type of currency. The AH should have been gold only with AD being spent at certain npc.
... I will play your game, but not spend another dime on it.... Hope lots of others follow in that practice too, see how long the servers run with no money to support it!
Are you saying that you will actively play a game for the sole purpose of helping to make it tank? I must admit that I don't understand this logic. If you disagree with their decisions, vote with your wallet, don't play the game, move on, there's plenty of good games out there right now. By investing time in a game that you're so set against, you're hurting yourself much more than them. Time is a far more valuable commodity than money. If you enjoy a game, compensate the people responsible. If you don't then find something you do enjoy. Being passive-aggressive helps nobody,
0
mance7Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
So because its currently 397. And has been up and down from 375-425 over the last couple hours. Means nothing to you OP. Come now OP, where are you after your disgusting rhetoric?
0
steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This might be slightly off topic, but is there a reason that each server has its own ZD exchange?
Is it linked somehow to the auction system and separate server personal income (e.g. players on dragon may be overall richer than those on mindflayer)?
I don't see any obvious reason that we shouldn't have one collective exchange rate over all servers since they will be eventually merged anyway. I know economies will be different from server to server and that might effect the rate a bit, but I don't see why that would necessitate different exchanges.
Wouldn't having just the one exchange help even out the rate for everyone? - Some servers (due to player income)might have an advantage , but overall it would even itself out.
It basically means that there are less Zen sellers in Dragon than in Mindflayer, hence why the prices are cheaper.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
It basically means that there are less Zen sellers in Dragon than in Mindflayer, hence why the prices are cheaper.
I understand why it fluctuates from server to server, I am just wondering WHY they(cryptic) set it up like that and not one universal Xchange since ultimately, they will all be merged. I wonder if they wanted completely separate economies for each server or something?
Are you saying that you will actively play a game for the sole purpose of helping to make it tank? I must admit that I don't understand this logic. If you disagree with their decisions, vote with your wallet, don't play the game, move on, there's plenty of good games out there right now. By investing time in a game that you're so set against, you're hurting yourself much more than them. Time is a far more valuable commodity than money. If you enjoy a game, compensate the people responsible. If you don't then find something you do enjoy. Being passive-aggressive helps nobody,
Don't know why this should surprise you there are folks over at STO, who feel that Cryptic somehow wronged them back during the early days of CoH, they still carry grudges and do everything in their power to bash any and all Cryptic products, and this isn't theory the freely admit it. I have no doubt many of them are here sticking it to "the man" :rolleyes:
It's why I have said often, while I do love video games and MMO's especially, I loathe most "gamers."
Meanwhile, in goldseller sites, 2millions AD are sold for around 20 euros...
Hey Founders, still happy to have spent 200 euros? :asd:
Absolutely. My 260 dollars for founders packs helped support the development.
Plus I know I won't get hacked, have trojans/keyloggers installed or give out my payment information and wake up tomorrow with my bank account emptied and all my characters stripped of loot.
Absolutely. My 260 dollars for founders packs helped support the development.
Plus I know I won't get hacked, have trojans/keyloggers installed or give out my payment information and wake up tomorrow with my bank account emptied and all my characters stripped of loot.
Don't know why this should surprise you there are folks over at STO, who feel that Cryptic somehow wronged them back during the early days of CoH, they still carry grudges and do everything in their power to bash any and all Cryptic products, and this isn't theory the freely admit it. I have no doubt many of them are here sticking it to "the man" :rolleyes:
It's why I have said often, while I do love video games and MMO's especially, I loathe most "gamers."
It doesn't surprise me (sadly), I just don't understand the reasoning behind that mindset. But then again, I suspect that "reason" has very little to do with it.
Comments
^
Market on weekdays is usually about as low as 350/1. With the weekends hitting 400/1
For that guy to deny anything is funny about the exchange rate must be inhaling fumes.
Explain. There's a good reason why the exchange rate differs between weekday and weekend: More people on weekend, higher demand. You would also notice a similar, lesser difference between peek and offpeak periods.
Offnote: There is an arbitrage opportunity because of this, however, be warned that arbitrage is extremely risky, especially in the current environment where the market simply isn't stable.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
As I said before, no, it doesn't. The AH exchange rate only offers evidence, that the majority that joined the failwagon last weekend are now gone. It doesn't prove, that the original exploiters are gone or even that they exist or don't exist. The market is too large and neither you not I have the necessary data to analyze it. Your theories lack evidence just as mine do. I'm merely pointing out, that your theory is as good as any other and doesn't disprove any other theories.
The burden of proof is on both of us.
PvP is a part of the game, it's competitive, it's fun and, for a lot of people (judging by how fast queues pop even when there's no event going on) it's a major asset of the game. AD selling and things like that transfer the riches from the ones who focus their efforts in the game to people, who focus their efforts on other things but have the money to speedrun themselves through content, which is bad. For the playerbase, for the economy and for PWE as well.
Regards,
Kalantris
No, it's not competitive (at its current state). You gain nothing from doing it except for completing a daily. No ratings, nothing. It's not balanced enough to make it fair, too much gear dependant and some classes have obvious advantages.
Also, no difference between PUGs and premades. It's extremely casual.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
What I was getting at, is that there is a significant increase in rates. I can understand the numbers going up or down 20 points here and there within a given 2-week span, but this is a def significant increase indicating that all those AD's that were in the system have not, in fact, been completely removed.
~Edit~
I actually have a notepad that I have when I started playing. I'd note down all fluctuations in the price. So from the time the exchange seemed fine up until now has seen a dramatic increase in exchange prices.
People keep saying the market is "fine" but I beg to differ.
Yes I understand market prices also fluctuate but the amount of increase in exchange compared to the fact that what happened was only a few days ago also proves that all those diamonds are still not out of the system.
I touched on this in another post:
* The exchange had not been up for several days, so AD built up and people were selling them as soon as they could. There is also some insecurity about the situation, which is heavily fed by people who keep making unverified claims, so this causes more people to offer AD (selling before they no longer sell, from their perspective) ...
* Due to the insecurity and the unfounded claims, there are fewer people who are willing to spend Zen right now (wait and see).
* The AH is also down, so there is no immediate need for AD, further making it less likely that people buy AD.
I'm someone who has bought maybe close to 20M AD since the headstart. I have 22k Zen in my exchange balance. However, in the current situation I won't buy additional AD, and besides, I have no actual need for AD (AH is down, and I have cats for the characters that I want a cat for).
So, the supply is higher than the demand and as a result the exchange rate goes up for some time. This is related to the exploit, but it is unrelated to the actual amount of AD in the economy. It is a psychological issue, and one of the AH not being up.
Also, I have been noting roughly the movement of Zen/AD trade, and have noted that it had been slowly reducing until the exploit. Current levels isn't accurate thanks to a core AD sink not being available.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I'm not disagreeing with this point of thinking at all. Just saying that this isn't the same case as in on DRAGON server. The highest I saw the day before Caturday was ~500/1.
It was only at 500:1 during headstart when the founders dumped their AD. I checked every day multiple times since the beta started and the exchange range steadily and consistently went down each day. We were at 365:1 even on Caturday morning. Then within minutes it shot up to 450 and 500:1. I wish I had written down the daily numbers so that I could offer a graph.
Zen to AD price is placed by players, idiot, if players buy zen for that price, its players own fault. Think of apple customers, they will pay rudiculous sums for something a sane human would get for half the price.
Exactly same thing here, the price is high, because people buy it for that kind of AD.
Having to use the exchange makes demand go up, supply go down. Which in turn makes the cost of AD per zen go up.
It's just common sense, something 99% of the people who are on the forums seem to lack.
Try dumbing it down.
If the drive thru is closed at lunchtime, the number of patrons inside goes up causing a longer wait
Is it linked somehow to the auction system and separate server personal income (e.g. players on dragon may be overall richer than those on mindflayer)?
I don't see any obvious reason that we shouldn't have one collective exchange rate over all servers since they will be eventually merged anyway. I know economies will be different from server to server and that might effect the rate a bit, but I don't see why that would necessitate different exchanges.
Wouldn't having just the one exchange help even out the rate for everyone? - Some servers (due to player income)might have an advantage , but overall it would even itself out.
Servers will be merged soon, so engineering that would be pointless.
Your being naive if you really believe this. Personally I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as I new this would happen with this type of currency. The AH should have been gold only with AD being spent at certain npc.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Are you saying that you will actively play a game for the sole purpose of helping to make it tank? I must admit that I don't understand this logic. If you disagree with their decisions, vote with your wallet, don't play the game, move on, there's plenty of good games out there right now. By investing time in a game that you're so set against, you're hurting yourself much more than them. Time is a far more valuable commodity than money. If you enjoy a game, compensate the people responsible. If you don't then find something you do enjoy. Being passive-aggressive helps nobody,
It basically means that there are less Zen sellers in Dragon than in Mindflayer, hence why the prices are cheaper.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
I understand why it fluctuates from server to server, I am just wondering WHY they(cryptic) set it up like that and not one universal Xchange since ultimately, they will all be merged. I wonder if they wanted completely separate economies for each server or something?
Don't know why this should surprise you there are folks over at STO, who feel that Cryptic somehow wronged them back during the early days of CoH, they still carry grudges and do everything in their power to bash any and all Cryptic products, and this isn't theory the freely admit it. I have no doubt many of them are here sticking it to "the man" :rolleyes:
It's why I have said often, while I do love video games and MMO's especially, I loathe most "gamers."
Absolutely. My 260 dollars for founders packs helped support the development.
Plus I know I won't get hacked, have trojans/keyloggers installed or give out my payment information and wake up tomorrow with my bank account emptied and all my characters stripped of loot.
And that is if you get off easy.
The cheap AD is a lie.