Maybe some of those mule accounts just want to quickly move as much AD as possible? And it could be a panic sale as people who may have aqquired their AD legit try to shift it as well, who knows? but I wasn't expecting instant balance........ and theres no doubting theres going to be some who will hoard their AD and maybe their 20 cats and bags fill of purples.
It's too early to say anything definitive. But if billions of AD have been generated like some people claim, then that currency probably is mostly in the hands of AD sellers. That would mean that it will slowly trickle into the economy as people buy their cheap AD. Such a slow trickle will look like a steady state of economy where the prices are inflated but the reason is invisible to players and developers. It would look like everything is fine when in fact it is not.
Just saying that this argument might never be solved.
Ok Doomsayers.. The Zen to AD ratio is normal according to my exchange window!
But what is normal? If we assume the exploit existed since day 1, it will have affected the ratio all this time. There is no normal in this scenario and consequently it is quite impossible to prove or disprove.
People are still buying Zen LMAO! PWE is laughing all the way to the bank... crash the economy and PROFIT$!
right??? because people from both cryptic and pwe wanted to spend their entire SUNDAY fixing an in game economy crash because they had nothing better to do so they purposely crashed the economy GIVE ME A BREAK!
right??? because people from both cryptic and pwe wanted to spend their entire SUNDAY fixing an in game economy crash because they had nothing better to do so they purposely crashed the economy GIVE ME A BREAK!
They did crash the economy because they allowed the exploit to be in game. You have to look at the big picture.
I see 372:1 so.. looks fine to me. I have been paying attention because I purchased Zen last night and was waiting to convert it to offset my expected losses.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
0
oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Biggest lie ever is right on the homepage about the caturday rewards.
"rolled back to a time before the exploit was initiated...."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The zen exchange rate may change once the AH goes back up. If people do have all these cats and such there will be a rush to flood the AH, profit and run ASAP.
We'll find out how much is lies and truth at that point.
Come on people the BETA just came out! I come to the forums to read interesting things about the game and all I find is *****ing and whining... It's a video game, not the ****ing stock market if it's not a perfectly balanced economy you will be OK.
They did crash the economy because they allowed the exploit to be in game. You have to look at the big picture.
You are not looking at the big picture, only what is right in front of you, and you can't detach from it to really see this from a larger distance. This is why we see all those doom and gloom threads.
Come on people the BETA just came out! I come to the forums to read interesting things about the game and all I find is *****ing and whining... It's a video game, not the ****ing stock market if it's not a perfectly balanced economy you will be OK.
Welcome to the generation of entitlement. The younger generation of gamers have jelly guts.
You guys never thought about "AD\Zen regulator" in Cryptic GMs faces?
AD is practiculary an "air" and Zen is $, so it is a good business model in Pay2Win game to punish game currency owners and help real money currency owners by making game currency worth less and less. So i think they easily can just buy excessive Zen (or even all Zen, but small amount) changing the gamers mind to "fck it, ill just buy Zen, than farm 2 days for 1$ of worth in AD", easy peasy
You guys never thought about "AD\Zen regulator" in Cryptic GMs faces?
So when the doom-and-gloom predictions didn't come true and the facts disprove the worst case scenario theories, the response is to come up with new conspiracy theories?
Perhaps it's really as simple as the rollback and their individual handling of special cases having sufficiently addressed and undone the damage.
You guys never thought about "AD\Zen regulator" in Cryptic GMs faces?
AD is practiculary an "air" and Zen is $, so it is a good business model in Pay2Win game to punish game currency owners and help real money currency owners by making game currency worth less and less. So i think they easily can just buy excessive Zen (or even all Zen, but small amount) changing the gamers mind to "fck it, ill just buy Zen, than farm 2 days for 1$ of worth in AD", easy peasy
It's actually pretty easy to make 100 Zen worth of AD in a single day, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
So when the doom-and-gloom predictions didn't come true and the facts disprove the worst case scenario theories, the response is to come up with new conspiracy theories?
Perhaps it's really as simple as the rollback and their individual handling of special cases having sufficiently addressed and undone the damage.
No, I think it's far more complicated. People who exploited this from the start were the smart ones. Then someone spilled the beans and it went pretty much public, so everyone started abusing it. Now it's just the old, smart guys again and:
1. they're a vast minority;
2. they're smart, so they'll liquify their assets slowly.
The only way you can notice that is by observin the ZEN auction system constantly to see if there's any huge bids waiting as certain levels... like 362 or something like that. If the price never drops below that it means someone big is buying on that exact level and it might be an exploiter.
No way a 7hr rollback could fix everything, Imivo, don't fool yourself.
Come on people the BETA just came out! I come to the forums to read interesting things about the game and all I find is *****ing and whining... It's a video game, not the ****ing stock market if it's not a perfectly balanced economy you will be OK.
No, I think it's far more complicated. People who exploited this from the start were the smart ones. Then someone spilled the beans and it went pretty much public, so everyone started abusing it. Now it's just the old, smart guys again and:
1. they're a vast minority;
2. they're smart, so they'll liquify their assets slowly.
The only way you can notice that is by observin the ZEN auction system constantly to see if there's any huge bids waiting as certain levels... like 362 or something like that. If the price never drops below that it means someone big is buying on that exact level and it might be an exploiter.
No way a 7hr rollback could fix everything, Imivo, don't fool yourself.
Regards,
Kalantris
The 7 hr rollback wasn't supposed to fix everything, it's just supposed to fix the majority of the damage, while selective targeting used to handle the rest. The question is how effective that selective targeting is.
Q: This bug existed for more than 7 hours. What are you doing about the fact that players took advantage of this before the rollback window?
A: We are performing additional log searches and investigations to ensure that the appropriate actions are taken against any accounts that performed the exploit before the rollback window. Exploits that were performed prior to our rollback window make up a fraction of a percent of total impact, so we will be dealing with those issues selectively as not to cause greater impact on those legitimate testers.
No way a 7hr rollback could fix everything, Imivo, don't fool yourself.
Show me proof for the claims. The AD/Zen exchange rate doesn't prove it, the AH prices probably won't either. They did more than just the 7-hours rollback, as is evident by the "I was falsely banned!" threads from people who were big time AH traders and shifted a lot of currency.
But let's assume that you are right and there is a very small number of smart people who exploited the bug previously (there is no evidence for this, just random claims from unverified sources) and these players slowly launder their illegitimately gotten AD, Zen or items resulting from purchases made with these currency in a way that is not actually noticeable or has an actual, substantial impact on the exchange rate ...
Show me proof for the claims. The AD/Zen exchange rate doesn't prove it, the AH prices probably won't either. They did more than just the 7-hours rollback, as is evident by the "I was falsely banned!" threads from people who were big time AH traders and shifted a lot of currency.
I'm saying it's not necessarily as you think it is, I'm making an equally unproovable claim as yours. The state of AD/Zen exchange doesn't prove it, neither does it disprove it. Assuming the exploit was known to a small group of gamers since day 1 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference by now, because the market was always tainted by their little influence. You can buy a small portion of the total sum of some asset without making the price change significantly, you can also place a position on some level, which seems to be acceptable (and that level was known before ZEN was even transferable to NW, I've seen people saying ZEN/AD exchange rate will be around 350-390 before the exchange was even available). A position awaiting at some level won't make the price change significantly and will provide a long-lasting laundry for someone with fake ADs.
But let's assume that you are right and there is a very small number of smart people who exploited the bug previously (there is no evidence for this, just random claims from unverified sources) and these players slowly launder their illegitimately gotten AD, Zen or items resulting from purchases made with these currency in a way that is not actually noticeable or has an actual, substantial impact on the exchange rate ...
... does it then actually matter?
Yes, it does matter. Their small influence on the market doesn't, but first, let me start with people exploiting the bug previously. There is no way this exploit was discovered and went public instantly. It never happened in any game I've played. There's always a group of people looking for the exploits and they're not doing this to report their finds neither to the company nor the rest of the playerbase, because they want it to stay secret, so that they can profit. It's as simple as that. The exploit itself was pretty easy to find for someone with the right experience, especially since it existed in other PWE games (STO).
Now about the influence. Such players make real money doing that and they also sell ADs to other players. As nothing is BoP these players buy endgame stuff and then smear you all over the walls in PvP. Such exploits wouldn't matter in a game without any form of competition, but there's PvP in NWN and that changes pretty much everything . It also means, that such items will be very expensive all the time, so players who don't buy ZEN or AD will have a hard time getting them on the AH.
Inflation on dragon is currently 9% for currency exchange. We won't know the real impact until the AH is back up and running. The demand for AD will be much higher once there are a lot more items to buy with it.
I'm saying it's not necessarily as you think it is, I'm making an equally unproovable claim as yours.
The difference is that the AD/Z exchange rate offers evidence for the claim that there is no problem, and that the majority of the damage has been fixed.
On the other hand, the claim that there are large amounts of cats or illegitimate AD out there is backed up by nothing. If you make a claim that isn't backed up by something that is clearly visible and can be verified by everyone, like the AD/Z exchange rate, the burden of proof is on you.
Such players make real money doing that and they also sell ADs to other players. As nothing is BoP these players buy endgame stuff and then smear you all over the walls in PvP. Such exploits wouldn't matter in a game without any form of competition, but there's PvP in NWN and that changes pretty much everything . It also means, that such items will be very expensive all the time, so players who don't buy ZEN or AD will have a hard time getting them on the AH.
PvP doesn't matter because there is no competitive framework in the game. No rankings, no titles, no material rewards that matter (the PvP set is not very useful). There is no element of competition. Join a premade with plain T2 items (not CN suff) and you win 99% of all games anyway, without ever facing a challenge. A solo queuer gets stomped as it is. (Let's be realistic here, PvP at 60 is all about 2-shotting people, so more damage actually barely matters because stuff like Enfeebling Ray kills you anyway.)
No, it doesn't mean those items will be expensive. The number of people clearing CN is increasing every day and the supply is steadily increasing. If there are people with exploited AD, their equipment needs will be satisfied very quickly and prices tumble (they HAVE tumbled, so this is backed up by what you can verify in the game). Even if they were high, it would also mean that non-exploiters can sell their items or materials at higher prices, too. If everything costs three times more than before, everything also sells for three times more than before.
I actually put forth the theory that even if there had been no rollback, the exploit would not have been really bad for anyone except PWE and people who bought AD previously. It would have made cats cheaper, it would have yielded higher prices for everything in the AH (meaning players would have made more AD, which would have make AD prices for in-game services cheaper, such as removing runes/enchants), and everything would have been essentially the same, just with higher numbers. (Admittedly, trading AD for Zen would have been harder, but that does hurt PWE because there would be less incentive to buy Zen to trade for AD and get a cat, mount upgrade, etc.).
Comments
If you meant to write 500+ you are wrong. I just checked and its at 425/415. I bought some Zen earlier today at 419.
I would expect it to be somewhat higher then Friday's values as no one can buy things via the AH atm, it has to be with Zen.
Just saying that this argument might never be solved.
I said it is on average +50 as it was 370 on friday. 50 is quite significant.
But what is normal? If we assume the exploit existed since day 1, it will have affected the ratio all this time. There is no normal in this scenario and consequently it is quite impossible to prove or disprove.
Or converting AD, ya know?
right??? because people from both cryptic and pwe wanted to spend their entire SUNDAY fixing an in game economy crash because they had nothing better to do so they purposely crashed the economy GIVE ME A BREAK!
Character handle:@skylia120410
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"rolled back to a time before the exploit was initiated...."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We'll find out how much is lies and truth at that point.
Down to 402 each now
I am looking at the big picture. It's this sign taped to your back that reads "KICK ME".
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You are not looking at the big picture, only what is right in front of you, and you can't detach from it to really see this from a larger distance. This is why we see all those doom and gloom threads.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Welcome to the generation of entitlement. The younger generation of gamers have jelly guts.
AD is practiculary an "air" and Zen is $, so it is a good business model in Pay2Win game to punish game currency owners and help real money currency owners by making game currency worth less and less. So i think they easily can just buy excessive Zen (or even all Zen, but small amount) changing the gamers mind to "fck it, ill just buy Zen, than farm 2 days for 1$ of worth in AD", easy peasy
So when the doom-and-gloom predictions didn't come true and the facts disprove the worst case scenario theories, the response is to come up with new conspiracy theories?
Perhaps it's really as simple as the rollback and their individual handling of special cases having sufficiently addressed and undone the damage.
It's actually pretty easy to make 100 Zen worth of AD in a single day, so I don't know what you're talking about.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
No, I think it's far more complicated. People who exploited this from the start were the smart ones. Then someone spilled the beans and it went pretty much public, so everyone started abusing it. Now it's just the old, smart guys again and:
1. they're a vast minority;
2. they're smart, so they'll liquify their assets slowly.
The only way you can notice that is by observin the ZEN auction system constantly to see if there's any huge bids waiting as certain levels... like 362 or something like that. If the price never drops below that it means someone big is buying on that exact level and it might be an exploiter.
No way a 7hr rollback could fix everything, Imivo, don't fool yourself.
Regards,
Kalantris
It's amusing that people will completely ignore posts like this and just keep on crying doom.
Yep.
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Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
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The 7 hr rollback wasn't supposed to fix everything, it's just supposed to fix the majority of the damage, while selective targeting used to handle the rest. The question is how effective that selective targeting is.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Show me proof for the claims. The AD/Zen exchange rate doesn't prove it, the AH prices probably won't either. They did more than just the 7-hours rollback, as is evident by the "I was falsely banned!" threads from people who were big time AH traders and shifted a lot of currency.
But let's assume that you are right and there is a very small number of smart people who exploited the bug previously (there is no evidence for this, just random claims from unverified sources) and these players slowly launder their illegitimately gotten AD, Zen or items resulting from purchases made with these currency in a way that is not actually noticeable or has an actual, substantial impact on the exchange rate ...
... does it then actually matter?
I'm saying it's not necessarily as you think it is, I'm making an equally unproovable claim as yours. The state of AD/Zen exchange doesn't prove it, neither does it disprove it. Assuming the exploit was known to a small group of gamers since day 1 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference by now, because the market was always tainted by their little influence. You can buy a small portion of the total sum of some asset without making the price change significantly, you can also place a position on some level, which seems to be acceptable (and that level was known before ZEN was even transferable to NW, I've seen people saying ZEN/AD exchange rate will be around 350-390 before the exchange was even available). A position awaiting at some level won't make the price change significantly and will provide a long-lasting laundry for someone with fake ADs.
Yes, it does matter. Their small influence on the market doesn't, but first, let me start with people exploiting the bug previously. There is no way this exploit was discovered and went public instantly. It never happened in any game I've played. There's always a group of people looking for the exploits and they're not doing this to report their finds neither to the company nor the rest of the playerbase, because they want it to stay secret, so that they can profit. It's as simple as that. The exploit itself was pretty easy to find for someone with the right experience, especially since it existed in other PWE games (STO).
Now about the influence. Such players make real money doing that and they also sell ADs to other players. As nothing is BoP these players buy endgame stuff and then smear you all over the walls in PvP. Such exploits wouldn't matter in a game without any form of competition, but there's PvP in NWN and that changes pretty much everything
Best regards,
Kalantris
The difference is that the AD/Z exchange rate offers evidence for the claim that there is no problem, and that the majority of the damage has been fixed.
On the other hand, the claim that there are large amounts of cats or illegitimate AD out there is backed up by nothing. If you make a claim that isn't backed up by something that is clearly visible and can be verified by everyone, like the AD/Z exchange rate, the burden of proof is on you.
PvP doesn't matter because there is no competitive framework in the game. No rankings, no titles, no material rewards that matter (the PvP set is not very useful). There is no element of competition. Join a premade with plain T2 items (not CN suff) and you win 99% of all games anyway, without ever facing a challenge. A solo queuer gets stomped as it is. (Let's be realistic here, PvP at 60 is all about 2-shotting people, so more damage actually barely matters because stuff like Enfeebling Ray kills you anyway.)
No, it doesn't mean those items will be expensive. The number of people clearing CN is increasing every day and the supply is steadily increasing. If there are people with exploited AD, their equipment needs will be satisfied very quickly and prices tumble (they HAVE tumbled, so this is backed up by what you can verify in the game). Even if they were high, it would also mean that non-exploiters can sell their items or materials at higher prices, too. If everything costs three times more than before, everything also sells for three times more than before.
I actually put forth the theory that even if there had been no rollback, the exploit would not have been really bad for anyone except PWE and people who bought AD previously. It would have made cats cheaper, it would have yielded higher prices for everything in the AH (meaning players would have made more AD, which would have make AD prices for in-game services cheaper, such as removing runes/enchants), and everything would have been essentially the same, just with higher numbers. (Admittedly, trading AD for Zen would have been harder, but that does hurt PWE because there would be less incentive to buy Zen to trade for AD and get a cat, mount upgrade, etc.).