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The Critical Cleric (Deistik's build)

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    dcronusdcronus Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Funny you should mention Flamstrike... I was wondering what daily I should max out for damage.. Flamestrike, Guardian of Faith, or Hammer of Fate...? I didn't want to pick up Daunting Light so I guess I need Flamestrike's AoE.. but still curious about the other 2 options for a daily DMG

    Of course, this would only be used if HG wasn't needed =P
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    doomsday22kdoomsday22k Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hammer is awesome in pvp.
    Just when they least expect it.. Smash. :-)
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    epiz0rsepiz0rs Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    As, I am leveling, am I suppose to wear gears Crit > Power or this mainly for level 60. How much crit vs power are we talking about?
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    deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Leveling, I'd get as much crit as you can. Once you're 60, you're maxing crit to about 4k, then dumping the rest into power (assuming you have 3k recovery).
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    bradspittsbradspitts Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I agree with Righteousness sucks, let's get it removed! How can a healer not be awesome at healing? Come on its like "I don't know how to heal myself, but on someone else, yeah I can do that! Or "I don't know the first thing about healing, but healing you, yeah I can heal you." "I'll keep you healed so that I can draw all the enemies to me and then you can raise me up."

    Feels like the devoted cleric is a mob character or one who's job is to die. A little role reversal, how would you like to play the part of the npc in the game whose job is to be killed by everything else in the game. You'll be an aggravation to kill, nothing more.
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    koowikoowi Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For T1 set what u prefer guys, Sacred Hand or High Prophet ?
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    unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    koowi wrote: »
    For T1 set what u prefer guys, Sacred Hand or High Prophet ?

    Divine Emissary. Although the aura part of the 4 piece is broken and only you get 250 defense and 250 deflect I still prefer it.
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    manuelito75manuelito75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dcronus wrote: »
    Funny you should mention Flamstrike... I was wondering what daily I should max out for damage.. Flamestrike, Guardian of Faith, or Hammer of Fate...? I didn't want to pick up Daunting Light so I guess I need Flamestrike's AoE.. but still curious about the other 2 options for a daily DMG

    Of course, this would only be used if HG wasn't needed =P

    I feel that HG is too strong in PvE not to use it at any time possible. For PvP I would suggest to try out Divine Armor, Guardian and Hammer and see what suits you best.
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    manuelito75manuelito75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Divine Emissary. Although the aura part of the 4 piece is broken and only you get 250 defense and 250 deflect I still prefer it.

    2x Divine Emissary and 2x High Prophet would be my choice. I know, hard stats only, but i still think i'd prefer that. If possible I would switch the 4 set bonus from the War PvP set...but the stats on the PvP set are simply wrong:-)
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    montiblancmontiblanc Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 97
    edited May 2013
    How is your PoD build working out for you? I ask this because I recently read this
    jaymccloud wrote: »
    Prophecy of doom looks bugged to me... i have tested only in the dummy.
    I was hitting at lvl 56 for 490-505 with sacred flame. Casted POD and the dmg is the same.
    Another thing... the tooltip of POD says that in divinity it "increases the damage and reduces further the defense".
    Withou divinity i do 2700-3000ish when it explodes. With divinity, does the same dmg and when i hit with sacred flame it does 330-400 dmg. It actually lowers my dmg.

    Anyone know something about it?

    are you experiencing anything similar
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    deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Well, I've been using mostly FF, Sunburst, and AS as encounters lately. PoD is a great AP builder, IF you can get it on the right mobs, which can be pretty difficult. Sunburst, while having a cooldown, can generate almost the same amount of AP per cast as PoD, and it's guaranteed.

    I quite honestly wasn't even paying attention to the damage PoD did when I was using it.

    Although I can go test it on a dummy in a bit.
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    itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    i just specced into the second sight passive skill and it does nothing for PoD, it destroyed my lvl 36 cleric since i dont have enuf AD to respec him out of it now, time for a reroll i supose.

    Even the description is flawed of second sight it states "wil heal for 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% / 15% / of PoD damage" so basicly the last point reduces the heal if im supose to believe the description.
    Also i thought it would heal if the target died
    Ore heal the amount of damage received while PoD was active
    Ore heal when PoD ended
    Sadly it does nothing at all.

    (if anybody wanna give me 40k AD at dragon server for a respec it would be greatly apreciated, else im gonna delete this char and reroll...)
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
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    montiblancmontiblanc Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 97
    edited May 2013
    itheryel wrote: »
    i just specced into the second sight passive skill and it does nothing for PoD, it destroyed my lvl 36 cleric since i dont have enuf AD to respec him out of it now, time for a reroll i supose.

    Even the description is flawed of second sight it states "wil heal for 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% / 15% / of PoD damage" so basicly the last point reduces the heal if im supose to believe the description.
    Also i thought it would heal if the target died
    Ore heal the amount of damage received while PoD was active
    Ore heal when PoD ended
    Sadly it does nothing at all.

    (if anybody wanna give me 40k AD at dragon server for a respec it would be greatly apreciated, else im gonna delete this char and reroll...)

    Props to you bro for testing like that. it really is unfortunate that you gotta pay to properly test out whether or not some powers/feats even work properly ( do you notice how wrong that line sounds? PAY TO TEST IF THINGS WORK IN OPEN BETA? WTF? )

    I would gladly give u 40k ad had I lots of ad to begin with but alas slightly more than 40k is all I got

    hope u get lucky and some1 with lots of ad to spare gives you your reset, otherwise welcome to my experience (ive rerolled quite a bit ~_~)
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    imotebimoteb Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 35
    edited May 2013
    full healing stones....
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    deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Gotta love a 40% heal debuff on yourself! Since those videos, I've been stacking more damage reduction and defense, but I still have to use stones over pots.
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    imotebimoteb Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 35
    edited May 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    Gotta love a 40% heal debuff on yourself! Since those videos, I've been stacking more damage reduction and defense, but I still have to use stones over pots.

    My point is, the hard part about being a cleric is keeping everyone UP with your heals, if everyone runs with 200 100% HP pots therte is no need for a cleric at all.
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    blackwarrior37blackwarrior37 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    does this crit build works fine in pvp ?
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    itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Haha im happy again x-D i sold a dragon egg for 100 AD on the auction house (i have no clue what it is/is for)
    but now i can respec out of my second sight passive and dont have to delete my cleric and reroll, so im happy xD.

    Whoever got a good deal on that dragon egg, thx for buying it <.o
    however it is really frustrating how poorly the skills are worded and that 50% of them are bugged/ have no synergy.
    I am voting for a mechanics threads on these forrums so we can give exual FEEDBACK on this "beta" to the developers '-.-
    If any long timer wants to start this thread i wil bump it emediatly...
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
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    mithon81mithon81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    First off, I'd like to say thank you for a very nice guide, and secondly thanks everyone for a very nice discussion following it. To my amazement I actually read the whole thread.

    I wanted to contribute some ideas that may have nothing to them, or may move us further forward.

    I'm concerned with the aggro issue, and seing that Soothe has been replaced seems like we've basically given up. So I'm thinking to myself, either the Cleric is the add-tank, or there's something we're missing. This leads to me thinking how can we do our job without drawing so much aggro? To answer that we must recall what our job actually is. Is it to heal everyone? Naw.. not precisely, it's to keep everyone alive (and preferably in good health). (I'm not gonna go into how that's impossible with fools standing in red and blaming the healers for dying.)

    We can go about that job in a few ways: Raw healing, damage resistance and temporary HP. I'm not sure about temporary HP, but I wouldn't be surprised if only the first one; raw healing, actually contributes to aggro gain. If that's the case we could build for more DR and temp HP to reduce aggro gain. The question then is, can we do that without loosing a lot of oomph? And, can temp hp gain crit?

    With this in mind, I'd like to revive the Hollowed Ground (HG) vs Divine Armor (DA) discussion. Let's do a simple thought experiment: What if we swapped Moon Touched (MT) for Restoration Mastery (RM) (T2 Righteous)? I'll assume we're critting so much that RM will have 100% uptime, (which might be completely false, for all I know). The question is will the 5% damage resist absorbe more damage than 25% of the average party member for a duration of refilling the Action Points? This may sound like a strange way to compare things, but the difference between the two feat+daily combos is that with HG the gain is regen of 25% hp, and for DA it is a flat 5% DR. In other words, the question is with the average player having H HP and taking D damage over the recharge time, will D * 5% be less than or larger than H * 25%?

    I can't really test that since I don't have a level 60 cleric yet. So I'm asking here since you probably have a pretty good idea of how much damage is actually going on for the duration of a AP recharge. So my question to you is what your gutfeel says about that inequality D*5% lt/gt H*25%?

    Note how I've disregarded the secondary effect of both HG and DA (damage buff and temp hp, respectively). I've done that under the assumption that we value it equally. That may be entirely false, and we might value damage buff more due to enrage timers (which I don't know if we have in this game) or conversely that we might value temp hp more since it's our job to keep ppl alive rather than ensure stuff gets hurt.

    Depending on what you think of this, this line of thinking could be taken a step further by slotting Deepstone Blessing rather than Enduring Relief, and using Sacred Flame over Brand of the Sun. But I'm getting ahead of myself.. What do you think?
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    unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Restoration Master is not 5% damage reduction. It's +5% defense, as in the stat you get from gear. 5% will, at best, add up to around 2% damage reduction. The exact amount will vary from player to player based on how much defense they have to begin with and thus how hard DR is hitting them on that stat.

    It's been a while been I seem to recall when I had around 2,250 defense a 5% increase (up to 2362) gave something like 1.7% more damage reduction.

    Unfortunately with the way diminishing returns on stats work 5% gain on a stat is almost guaranteed to never be more than about a 2% gain in the corresponding effect (e.g. damage reduction, crit chance, recharge rate, etc...), often more like 1%.

    It's too late for me really process the rest of your post, but I think there's an interesting discussion to be had on that topic. I just wanted to clarify how RM works for you.
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    yoichinoyumiyoichinoyumi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Personally, I'd like to have divine armor in the group whenever I am running with another cleric for castle never runs, and it is because the fact that I am currently running full recovery build, and have almost 100% uptime on hallowed ground (+43% AP gain with buffs), and having 2 clerics doing hallowed ground is redundant when 1 is already 100% uptime. And it falls between having DPS daily vs divine armor, which in my opinion, for castle never, more survivability is more important, especially if you're doing speed runs and pulling multiple packs of mobs all the time.

    I am not entirely sure if the DR from hallowed ground and divine armor stacks or not, but it's been working for my group really well. None of our heals with the exception of bastion are burst heal, and the only time we get into trouble is when everyone takes burst damage and start dying, divine armor does a nice job buffering that damage spike. Sometimes, when people are taking heavy bursts of damage, from bouncing around taking fireballs upon fireballs, potions are just not enough, and the temporary health helps a ton to help get the HP back up. I know they're not suppose to step in reds, but these things happen, no one plays perfectly every time, and sometimes you just have bad luck, got hit by something, knocked into another thing into another thing. Divine armor is there for the insurance. I don't use the 100% health stone, and neither does my group.

    As far as at will, I use Brand of the sun for entirely different reason, yes the very high divine power and AP gain is nice, but it also have very little animation lock, which is a huge plus for me. It is also the same reason I absolutely hate prophecy of doom, just for the sole reason of it having extremely long animation lock.
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    mithon81mithon81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I see. Thanks for the swift response. I should have realized that I got mixed up on the feat descriptions. I think my thought process was like this: Foresight gives DR, the wording on Benefit of Foresight speaks in terms of "Defense", so does the wording for Restoration Mastery. Hence RM gives DR. Errr!! wrong! :D

    This makes it rather unlikely that Divine Armor can compete in any way shape or form to be honest. So it will probably only ever be viable if you want less than 15 points of Faithfull feats, and especially if you like the looks of Strength of the Gods. Too bad the other trees seem to work only with a manageable number of opponents (for debuffing 1 target at a time), which is not how I see boss-fights atm with adds spawning left and right...

    In short I'm not impressed with the feat diversity and viability. Having the different paths focus more on either direct heals, hots or dr could make for more diversity in game. The upside to this is that there isn't too much choice in builds.. which makes choosing rather simple. :)
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    mithon81mithon81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ahh.. double clerics.. I had not considered this.. I'm guessing you're the exception rather than the rule. You were the guy with cha + int build, yes? Personally I'm not sure the sacrifice (in terms of oomph) is worth it, but I can see how it might work well. However I do expect that for most random 2x clerics who end up in the same group, neither of them will be cha + int, so I think they'll usually be fine alternating HG's... In short I think yours is a very special case. I won't skip over DA, but I don't expect I'll have a lot of use for it. :)
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    deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I've only ran with a second cleric one single time, and I was so bored, I won't do it again. lol

    The reason I use HG almost all the time, is because for me, in a "crisis" situation, it's almost always better to have mobs die faster, therefore taking less overall damage than a little more DR and mobs hitting you for longer.
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    las1000las1000 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I just read all replies in this thread xD I had a hard time in doing this, cause English is foreign language for me.

    But let's get to the point.
    Like deistik pointed in the 1st post, is a end game build, but he didn't said why. Since there were many ppl asking if it can be used in low lvls i decide to add sth. form myself.
    This build works only because of 3 things:
    1) the enchanted HG is providing great amount of healing without synergy from power
    2) spamming of D AS for DR and healing (AS is available form 50)
    3) high AP gain from crits.
    Without at last 0/16/6 of Paragon feats it won't work at all (it's a total minimum and it won't give you a high results). So up to late 50 or even up to 60 in my personal opinion you should stay with items based on POWER/recovery/crit. strike.

    I think that build and guild is just freaking awesome.
    Like the others says before, the D AS, BS and HG can provide 30% max health gain in 15 sec. Including DR is far than enough to keep team in top shape. Thx to it, we can get more crit. strike and recovery at the expense of power which we don't need any more.

    Many of you complain about Righteousness. I guess I came up with some idea.
    While Man-in-Arms is a really good help for DC in solo gaming, there is no useless of them in dungeons. Focus will be placed on tank (like we always hope so) or on you. The Cleric Disciple will be a great alternative for Man-in-arms, it will help you overcame your debuff during cleaning dungeons.
    Ofc having a Cat as a companion will give you much more benefits.

    But even I need to ask you.
    As a 1st passive I would like to pick a Divine Fortune or Holy Fervor. (don't care about it at the moment)
    As 2nd passive I would chose one of this: Foresight or Sooth.
    I want to know which passive is better to use: Foresight or Sooth ? Both seems be great.
    Sooth is decreasing thread caused by you passively.
    Foresight is increasing DR. Higher DR mean that less healing mast be done to keep team at full heath. Less healing done it's less thread, the thread reduction will be same as value of additional DR from Foresight. But is far less effective than Sooth in this aspect.
    There only differences is in feasts. If you are about using Foresight you would likely get 5 points to "Benefit of Foresight" to get synergy of DR. By using Shoot you would probably spend that 5 points at "Linked Sprit". Even if it just 5% of your stats is a great buff for CW, who has really nice synergy between Critic Strike and Crit. chance, and also between Recovery and Recharge Speed, and AP. Ofc same goes with other classes.

    Since i have only 54 lvl and I don't have any exp. with dungeons T1 and T2, so I will depend on you here. Tell me what you think about it. Is better to keep your team on top fit because of additional DR and ~-10% TR, or is better to get -20% TR and additional buff (from Linked Spirit) for other teammates?

    In the end I would like to remember you that English is foreign language for me, so I ask you to keep that in mind while replying.

    BTW: Doesn't temporary HP form DA stuck with power? While we don't have it in that build at all. In all situations I would face up with, I would rather use HG than DA.
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    daytakdaytak Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hey I was wondering I have limited character slots and already have a main rogue and only have 1 spot left and it's going to be a Devoted Cleric 2 roll with my brother,... there's 2 really good cleric guides,... and I'm mainly looking to focus on lvl 60 effectiveness,... lvl 60 pve primarily pvp secondary,... one build has 2 have an adv as you guys are using a different rotation and everything,... which would you see would allow most effectiveness for healing T2's this guide vs. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?188622-My-Cleric-Build
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    deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I'd recommend this guide or Unspecified's (found here) over Mewbrey's. His guide is NOT bad at all, but I don't feel it's optimal, either.

    @las1000: Linked Spirit is a pretty lackluster feat, mainly because most of your party members will probably be in the DR range of their stats. Soothe can be nice, IF you have people that will actually pull mobs off of you. Of course, some fights you wouldn't want to even slot it anyway, since you'll be kiting. I usually run with Holy Fervor and Foresight as passives.
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    thadianthadian Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've been thinking of starting a crit cleric, but was wondering about going 16/16/14/11 str/wis/cha/int roll, as opposed to your 18/16/12/10.

    I would be forgoing 2% crit, and 2% stam regen, but gaining 3% recharge and 2% AP gain. Any thoughts?
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    yoichinoyumiyoichinoyumi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How much % crit with buffs are people having with this build? 50%? Without enchanting any crit or putting points into str, I have 35% crit with rogue buffs.
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    agenteusaagenteusa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 37
    edited May 2013
    @ Deistik or @Unspecified

    I have 2 questions for you guys. First what would you consider the best character builder atm? I've been looking at some but most seem lackluster.

    Second, I hate copying builds so I took ideas from both of you (in Unspecified case a little less since he takes lots of ideas from Deistik in his crit build which I believe is the way to go).

    Now, I haven't chosen as many recovery talents from the tree as I already have AS at 14.9 secs. Is it worth going more? Instead I'm getting 1 point in several other talents just to give me an edge and some perks as I find my divine power already recharges quite fast.

    Once you guys recommend me the char builder I'll post it here so you can check and give me soem advice on some talents I chose if that is possible.

    Thanks ;)
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