Again, we can't possibly know that and it's already become evident that this has been going on for weeks. it only became evident because somebody told the wrong guy and it became common knowledge. People were creating accounts just to make quick AD then selling it on a certain site ( the adverts are still appearing there today ) to the gold selling firms.
As I said. We can't know the state of the economy until the AH and the exchange appear and we see how much ill-gotten AD remains in the game.
You can't suppose anything about the state of the economy. 7 hours just cleared up a few hundred accounts of some cats.
Exactly my point. It's been going on for weeks but the economy has been fine for weeks. Nothing outrageous. Astral diamonds have never become worthless. There's never been any massive inflation. Everything that can be bought for zen is much cheaper than their zen equivalents in astral. So while it seems these people reportedly been doing it for a long time. They haven't had a massive influence on the economy. Those claiming the economy is irredeemably broken constant throw this "Fact" around but there's still little influence from them. Casuals can still afford practically everything on the auction house when the game hasn't even been around for that long.
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finnyinuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
Sorry you got banned for exploiting and you don't get to be on equal footing as everyone else.
Not everyone that got hit with this was exploiting. How would you feel if they rolled back a weeks worth of your progress? Surely it's not a week for everyone, but not everyone gets to play in an equal amount. In all honestly, to me it feels like they where trying to hit a fly with an elephant (yes I know that's not a correct expression, but it seemed apt).
Pressexposed kindly corrected me on this: you have 7 days to ask for a refund for orders made online (don't need any justification).
This heavily depends on national law and the exact goods bought. Even more problematic is the fact, that you need to redeem the goods in game.
Still, in most cases companies will adhere to this grace period, at least that's my experience with refunds.
(Although there are companies like Valve, whose Steam blatantly violates most EU countries' refund laws.)^^
Not everyone that got hit with this was exploiting. How would you feel if they rolled back a weeks worth of your progress? Surely it's not a week for everyone, but not everyone gets to play in an equal amount. In all honestly, to me it feels like they where trying to hit a fly with an elephant (yes I know that's not a correct expression, but it seemed apt).
Everyone got rolled back 7 hours. Everyone. I was affected by this along with everyone else except those that didn't play that day. So that's false as well. Other people want a complete wipe. I assure you, those who are upset over the 7 hours would be more so if the whiners got their complete wipe.
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jimbobbyboyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
For those of us lucky to live within the European Union, we have the tools and government agencies to take this matter further to file official complaints in regards to the way that Perfect World has treated us as customers. Many including myself are requesting a refund through the official channels, before we take further steps if we are denied by their customer support, which more than likely will be the case.
So I highly recommend that those of you who are really unhappy with the way you have been treated/cheated and lied too, that you go to the following website mentioned below:
Make sure to fill in the form or even directly contact them by telephone. We need to get our voices heard and we need to get Perfect World to feel the force of what happens when you disrespect paying customers (be it founders or Zen purchasers).
We are hoping that if enough complaints are filed or even if we are lucky to get our case forwarded directly to the European Consumers Rights group, we can get our concerns forward via the European Union courts where the European Consumer Laws will be reviewed in regards to the practices of Perfect World.
As they operate within Europe via their United Kingdom office, they can also be reviewed by the British Trading & Standards, so you Brits out there, make sure to also file a complaint directly with your government agencies.
So do you part! We can't allow companies like Perfect World to get away with what they have done and what they are still doing.
Thanks,
Doowie.
Dont be as silly person
Might be a good idea to read the EULA (if there are any) and Terms of Service, before you make even more of a fool of yourself
I think people would be less upset (or would they?) if they didn't feel PWE/Crytpic did try to hit an elephant with a fly with their latest attempt to fix the bug
Wrong. He bought concrete and defined benefits. Amount, a race, etc. Those were delivered and redeemed. Unless they get taken away the contract is fulfilled.
Wrong. There is no unless. They can be taken away at any time according to TOS. TOS don't mention anything about "concrete and defined benefits". They mention accumulation of treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators. He bought nothing.
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finnyinuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Everyone got rolled back 7 hours. Everyone. I was affected by this along with everyone else except those that didn't play that day. So that's false as well. Other people want a complete wipe. I assure you, those who are upset over the 7 hours would be more so if the whiners got their complete wipe.
If they did a complete wipe I'd be looking to join a class action lawsuit by now. Because that they have promised time and time again.
Now, they did more than revert my 7 hours, they also prevented me from playing for 6 more hours, causing me to lose a week's worth of progress in terms of invocations on multiple characters. The coins expired while they had the game taken down. Other than that the 7 hours were the only 7 hours I played that week (other than invocations / crafting), so to me it feels and is experienced like the loss of a week's worth of game time rather than just the 7 hours.
This heavily depends on national law and the exact goods bought. Even more problematic is the fact, that you need to redeem the goods in game.
Still, in most cases companies will adhere to this grace period, at least that's my experience with refunds.
(Although there are companies like Valve, whose Steam blatantly violates most EU countries' refund laws.)^^
Sorry, I should have been more clear: we were talking about British law (I believe the company representing PW in EU is based in the UK). Regarding redeeming the item in game, this has no real bearing: if you order something online, get your item delivered, you can still return it within 7 days and claim a full refund (in the present instance, they could take the items from the account).
This however raises an interesting question (for which I don't have an answer): what if someone buys zen, use it to get something (say a companion for example's sake) and gives that companion away, then claim a refund? I suspect common sense would say as they can't "return" the item, the refund would be non applicable but I'm not 100% sure.
If they did a complete wipe I'd be looking to join a class action lawsuit by now. Because that they have promised time and time again.
Now, they did more than revert my 7 hours, they also prevented me from playing for 6 more hours, causing me to lose a week's worth of progress in terms of invocations on multiple characters. The coins expired while they had the game taken down. Other than that the 7 hours were the only 7 hours I played that week (other than invocations / crafting), so to me it feels and is experienced like the loss of a week's worth of game time rather than just the 7 hours.
Which is exactly why you are on the wrong side. Actually read the people bashing PWE/Cryptic. Everyone bashing them is saying they didn't do enough with this 7 hours action. Read all the threads that are dissatisfied. That's my main point. I am glad they did that instead of a wipe. I wasn't happy with a roll back either but the vocal minority is screaming for a wipe instead. I am arguing against them.
I am arguing against a wipe. So you're actually on my side. Most of the people who want their money back want it back because they feel they didn't do enough because they didn't wipe the servers.
Although I agree with your statement about Google/wiki (seriously people, be careful), you don't need to be a lawyer to know the law. A lot of professional have to know it (at least some specific aspects of it) for their day to day job.
Fair enough. I know paralegals (for example) have to know the law...but the interpretation thereof is the province of a lawyer (or solicitor/barrister) or a judge.
Clerks of court have to know the law too, but can't give legal advice because they aren't considered qualified to interpret the law. Knowing is not the same as applying that law to a particular situation.
As to your other point, the entity representing Perfect World Co., LTD. (the parent company of PWE) in the EU would be Perfect World Europe, B.V. IIRC, they aren't based in the UK, although their exact country of origin escapes my memory.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Really you have 2 60s and more and you want your money back???? What other form of entertainment can you get that many hours of value cheaply? Unless you exploited to powerlevel...
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finnyinuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Which is exactly why you are on the wrong side. Actually read the people bashing PWE/Cryptic. Everyone bashing them is saying they didn't do enough with this 7 hours action. Read all the threads that are dissatisfied. That's my main point. I am glad they did that instead of a wipe. I wasn't happy with a roll back either but the vocal minority is screaming for a wipe instead. I am arguing against them.
I am arguing against a wipe. So you're actually on my side. Most of the people who want their money back want it back because they feel they didn't do enough because they didn't wipe the servers.
I do like how a lot of people seem to be saying "most people" like they've done research or something. Unless you interview a lot of people who never come on the forum, I doubt anyone here can have a decent idea of what "most people" want.
Also, I'm confused now... Anyhow, time for bed >.>
8 pages and only 3 with bought packs, if the pwe users realy don`t have it ;p
basicly you better just skip most comments because there will be no understanding
There is literally nothing worse than an idiot blowing $200 on a beta game and asking for a refund. You see the Founder packs are just like the Kickstarter's funding for games, you give money, and don't expect it back. Sure Kickstarter is more organized, but this is more of the ghetto way, but everything was in front of you. You didn't do any research and you got screwed. You only have yourself to blame.
I do like how a lot of people seem to be saying "most people" like they've done research or something. Unless you interview a lot of people who never come on the forum, I doubt anyone here can have a decent idea of what "most people" want.
Also, I'm confused now... Anyhow, time for bed >.>
Nothing to be confused about. The people screaming for their money back want a wipe. Look at the threads. I also agree with you. The guys saying "THEY NEED TO WIPE THE SERVERS." Are not the majority. They're the vocal minority.
There is literally nothing worse than an idiot blowing $200 on a beta game and asking for a refund. You see the Founder packs are just like the Kickstarter's funding for games, you give money, and don't expect it back. Sure Kickstarter is more organized, but this is more of the ghetto way, but everything was in front of you. You didn't do any research and you got screwed. You only have yourself to blame.
You are wrong. In real life the law protects against scams. There is nothing that a chargeback can't solve.
Every mmo I have ever played has one of these pointless threads pop up. In every case nothing happens. These threads die a quick death when people figure out they have no legal leg to stand on.
If you paid money for Zen, transfered it to the game and then spent the Zen, you have no leg to stand on as the terms your are presented with when buying Zen state that the money you paid is for the Zen and not the product you purchased with the Zen. This is of course unless your Zen was lost in the rollback, but you should contact support before threatening legal action in this case as your case can be thrown out if you didn't do everything in your power to resolve it without going to court.
The Founders packs are slightly different, but again if you received everything in the packs then you once again have no leg to stand on as the law doesn't take into account buyers remorse no matter how many big chain stores would try to convince you otherwise.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
There is literally nothing worse than an idiot blowing $200 on a beta game and asking for a refund. You see the Founder packs are just like the Kickstarter's funding for games, you give money, and don't expect it back. Sure Kickstarter is more organized, but this is more of the ghetto way, but everything was in front of you. You didn't do any research and you got screwed. You only have yourself to blame.
It isn't even that they blew $200 on a beta game. Its that they blew $200 on items for a free beta game and then finding that they don't like the beta game are demanding their money for the items that they got back.
they dont have to give you anything in the ToS it says what you buy is owned buy them and as their property they can do as they please with what you buy, also if you want you money back go to your bank but warned you get a perma ban from all PWE games till you pay this money back
This.
Remember a beta is a software being pre-released to be tested on a large scale. It is, by definition, subject to change, roll back, wipes and any other form of "inconvenience". You signed up for it, agreed to it, spent your money and had whatever it is you ordered. Although the concept of opening the cash shop during a beta is somewhat questionable (but not illegal)
When they start taking your money all claims of this is beta goes out the window (in terms of their responsibility to the their paying customers that is).
Good luck with your complaint, it sure will give the Court a giggle before they dismiss it... if it ever goes up to the Court.
This isn't going to court, it doesn't have to if the agency decides the company has misrepresented.
You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.
And those EULA's may very well be worthless in some countries though, it's not a legal document as such.
Neverwinter Online Open Beta is an ongoing success
Europe law is actually very benficial to the consumer in this instance. You have a case due to the excessive downtime involved since launch. Same as what happened with D3.
If you live in EU, and you decide to take this further (if they don't agree to refund through customer service) you would most likely win the case.
And everyone who mentions T&C's and EULA, they have no meaning in courts in UK, Sweden, Finland and Germany - (Maybe other EU countries, but these have precedent). They basically mean nothing outside of the USA.
Don't want to burst your bubble. Consumer rights is something I am most familiar with. In this case you have linked to a website that offers consumer advice for European residents when dealing with traders within the European Union. I.E. It's not relevant in this instance when dealing with an American company . ( PWE are the US subsidiary of PWI and operate from the US ).
But you seem not to be familiar with that in order for PW to be allowed sales in the EU of their product, they have to agree to certain terms. This for instance is why the price is higher in Euros than it is in dollars. You know EU sales tax etc. Also, most EU countries have consumer laws that are pretty "strong" for the consumer.
Over here, I could go buy a cell phone, unbox it, set it up and use the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it and still return it after a few days if I decide I don't like it or want it. No matter how much I've been using it.
Not that I'm personally doing any chargebacks or anything. I'm sticking this one out.
Comments
Exactly my point. It's been going on for weeks but the economy has been fine for weeks. Nothing outrageous. Astral diamonds have never become worthless. There's never been any massive inflation. Everything that can be bought for zen is much cheaper than their zen equivalents in astral. So while it seems these people reportedly been doing it for a long time. They haven't had a massive influence on the economy. Those claiming the economy is irredeemably broken constant throw this "Fact" around but there's still little influence from them. Casuals can still afford practically everything on the auction house when the game hasn't even been around for that long.
Not everyone that got hit with this was exploiting. How would you feel if they rolled back a weeks worth of your progress? Surely it's not a week for everyone, but not everyone gets to play in an equal amount. In all honestly, to me it feels like they where trying to hit a fly with an elephant (yes I know that's not a correct expression, but it seemed apt).
This heavily depends on national law and the exact goods bought. Even more problematic is the fact, that you need to redeem the goods in game.
Still, in most cases companies will adhere to this grace period, at least that's my experience with refunds.
(Although there are companies like Valve, whose Steam blatantly violates most EU countries' refund laws.)^^
Everyone got rolled back 7 hours. Everyone. I was affected by this along with everyone else except those that didn't play that day. So that's false as well. Other people want a complete wipe. I assure you, those who are upset over the 7 hours would be more so if the whiners got their complete wipe.
Dont be as silly person
Might be a good idea to read the EULA (if there are any) and Terms of Service, before you make even more of a fool of yourself
There is.
10char
I think people would be less upset (or would they?) if they didn't feel PWE/Crytpic did try to hit an elephant with a fly with their latest attempt to fix the bug
Wrong. There is no unless. They can be taken away at any time according to TOS. TOS don't mention anything about "concrete and defined benefits". They mention accumulation of treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators. He bought nothing.
If they did a complete wipe I'd be looking to join a class action lawsuit by now. Because that they have promised time and time again.
Now, they did more than revert my 7 hours, they also prevented me from playing for 6 more hours, causing me to lose a week's worth of progress in terms of invocations on multiple characters. The coins expired while they had the game taken down. Other than that the 7 hours were the only 7 hours I played that week (other than invocations / crafting), so to me it feels and is experienced like the loss of a week's worth of game time rather than just the 7 hours.
Sorry, I should have been more clear: we were talking about British law (I believe the company representing PW in EU is based in the UK). Regarding redeeming the item in game, this has no real bearing: if you order something online, get your item delivered, you can still return it within 7 days and claim a full refund (in the present instance, they could take the items from the account).
This however raises an interesting question (for which I don't have an answer): what if someone buys zen, use it to get something (say a companion for example's sake) and gives that companion away, then claim a refund? I suspect common sense would say as they can't "return" the item, the refund would be non applicable but I'm not 100% sure.
Which is exactly why you are on the wrong side. Actually read the people bashing PWE/Cryptic. Everyone bashing them is saying they didn't do enough with this 7 hours action. Read all the threads that are dissatisfied. That's my main point. I am glad they did that instead of a wipe. I wasn't happy with a roll back either but the vocal minority is screaming for a wipe instead. I am arguing against them.
I am arguing against a wipe. So you're actually on my side. Most of the people who want their money back want it back because they feel they didn't do enough because they didn't wipe the servers.
Fair enough. I know paralegals (for example) have to know the law...but the interpretation thereof is the province of a lawyer (or solicitor/barrister) or a judge.
Clerks of court have to know the law too, but can't give legal advice because they aren't considered qualified to interpret the law. Knowing is not the same as applying that law to a particular situation.
As to your other point, the entity representing Perfect World Co., LTD. (the parent company of PWE) in the EU would be Perfect World Europe, B.V. IIRC, they aren't based in the UK, although their exact country of origin escapes my memory.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I do like how a lot of people seem to be saying "most people" like they've done research or something. Unless you interview a lot of people who never come on the forum, I doubt anyone here can have a decent idea of what "most people" want.
Also, I'm confused now... Anyhow, time for bed >.>
basicly you better just skip most comments because there will be no understanding
Nothing to be confused about. The people screaming for their money back want a wipe. Look at the threads. I also agree with you. The guys saying "THEY NEED TO WIPE THE SERVERS." Are not the majority. They're the vocal minority.
You are wrong. In real life the law protects against scams. There is nothing that a chargeback can't solve.
Once you're charging cash, it's live retail.
I do hope so. If not, he would automatically lose his case.
Merchant
Perfect World Europe B.V.
billing.eu@perfectworld.com
+31 18883444478
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
If you paid money for Zen, transfered it to the game and then spent the Zen, you have no leg to stand on as the terms your are presented with when buying Zen state that the money you paid is for the Zen and not the product you purchased with the Zen. This is of course unless your Zen was lost in the rollback, but you should contact support before threatening legal action in this case as your case can be thrown out if you didn't do everything in your power to resolve it without going to court.
The Founders packs are slightly different, but again if you received everything in the packs then you once again have no leg to stand on as the law doesn't take into account buyers remorse no matter how many big chain stores would try to convince you otherwise.
It isn't even that they blew $200 on a beta game. Its that they blew $200 on items for a free beta game and then finding that they don't like the beta game are demanding their money for the items that they got back.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When they start taking your money all claims of this is beta goes out the window (in terms of their responsibility to the their paying customers that is).
This isn't going to court, it doesn't have to if the agency decides the company has misrepresented.
Sure that's why the have one for open beta as well that they chose not to use?
And those EULA's may very well be worthless in some countries though, it's not a legal document as such.
If you live in EU, and you decide to take this further (if they don't agree to refund through customer service) you would most likely win the case.
And everyone who mentions T&C's and EULA, they have no meaning in courts in UK, Sweden, Finland and Germany - (Maybe other EU countries, but these have precedent). They basically mean nothing outside of the USA.
But you seem not to be familiar with that in order for PW to be allowed sales in the EU of their product, they have to agree to certain terms. This for instance is why the price is higher in Euros than it is in dollars. You know EU sales tax etc. Also, most EU countries have consumer laws that are pretty "strong" for the consumer.
Over here, I could go buy a cell phone, unbox it, set it up and use the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it and still return it after a few days if I decide I don't like it or want it. No matter how much I've been using it.
Not that I'm personally doing any chargebacks or anything. I'm sticking this one out.