kingquaoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
I asked for a refund, i was told this...
Hello Rikki
We sincerely apologize for the delay caused by the large volume of tickets we have received at this time, your ticket is important to us.
Our records show that you have claimed and used items from the Hero of the North Founders' Pack, so we are unable to fulfill your refund request. In the future, please do not use items if you wish to have a refund.
You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.
If they dont give me a refund I will then decide whether to take action. I have stated my case and will look at their response, If I find it inadequate I will then have to decide whether to pursue it or not. I've done that before and in both cases the company has backed down.
Actually EULAs are worthless, as has been proven repeatedly in case law, at least in the EU. I'm sorry but you dont know what you are talking about, dont worry most people dont know their rights, I however do. And I am not afraid to enforce them even against big companies. I dont know which country you are from, possibly its the US where you have shockingly bad consumer protection.
I never said anythign about a charge back, I requested a refund as I believe UK and EU consumer protection legislation covering sale of goods and distance selling regulations entitle me to.
Also, dont put your faith in EULAs, they are there to scare you into not trying to enforce your rights. they have zero weight when stacked against national and international laws.
Sorry to rain on your parade but UK laws about distance selling apply if you are contacted to buy the product ( and in that regard, advertisement, even directly by e-mail, does not constitute an offer). In the present instance, it is more than likely you went online and ordered without them sending you a proposal to buy the game. So you are covered in the same way you would be covered if you'd go and buy a defective television.
Then you enter into the realm of beta release (see my previous posts) and at this stage you are pretty much toast.
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pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Don't want to burst your bubble. Consumer rights is something I am most familiar with. In this case you have linked to a website that offers consumer advice for European residents when dealing with traders within the European Union. I.E. It's not relevant in this instance when dealing with an American company . ( PWE are the US subsidiary of PWI and operate from the US ).
There may be recourse in the future if it can be proven that the exchange is a real cash economy and that Cryptic have been negligent in protecting their customer's investment. It remains to be seen if they remedy it to any satisfaction. Closing the exchange and opening it later after many exploiters sold billions in AD to the gold sellers is not really a remedy.
So do you part! We can't allow companies like Perfect World to get away with what they have done and what they are still doing.
Thanks,
Doowie.
Exactly what have they done?
Do you think that you have a valid complaint for losing less than 1 days progress while a game is in Beta due to the need to fix an issue and stating that they will ban people who exploited a bug? Because those are the only things that you actually know they have done, anything else is pure supposition.
To those quoting the EULA and Terms of Service. I'm sorry to inform you that neither the ToS or EULA are usable in a court of law here within the European Union.
I can understand that many want to defend Perfect World and I'm not complaining about wipes or rollbacks. My account has already been banned as I have disputed the payments already and also contacted Perfect Worlds customer support. I'm here to inform people how to do things the legal and correct way if they wish to complain to an official governing body.
Remember that Europe has completely different laws which protect consumers here. If you are happy with what you've got, then please continue to enjoy the game and what it has to offer you, we aren't stopping you from enjoying that, but you are trying to stop people from wanting to legally complain with your trolling/flaming on a forum.
People are indeed entitled to their opinion, but you should do some research before making a post.
We sincerely apologize for the delay caused by the large volume of tickets we have received at this time, your ticket is important to us.
Our records show that you have claimed and used items from the Hero of the North Founders' Pack, so we are unable to fulfill your refund request. In the future, please do not use items if you wish to have a refund.
It is still to be seen what effect all of this will have on those that purchased a founders pack. If AD is next to worthless when the exchange and AH come back up, then I can see people feeling misled about the value of their purchase. Then again AD had no real value monitor prior to launch. People just assumed that 2,000,000 and 600,000 must be a substantial amount. The economy and AD exchange was set by the players. Now if it was stated prior to launch that AD:Zen would fluctuate and if PWE/Cryptic decides to make a set or minimal transfer rate, then people will have a reason to say they are not getting what they paid for.
As of right now there is nothing though. It happens in games all the time. WoW does it all the time. People spend months grinding raids for gear only for it to become useless when an expansion comes out. Defiance rolled back their servers not too long after launch because people found a way to make more scrip than intended. Pretty sure GW2 did a rollback when people found vendors that would buy stuff for 100x what it was worth.
I'm not saying don't try if you feel whole heartily that you were wronged. EU went after Sega over that atrocious Aliens game. But it was blatantly false advertised.
Do you think that you have a valid complaint for losing less than 1 days progress while a game is in Beta due to the need to fix an issue and stating that the will ban people who exploited a bug? Because those are the only things that you actually know they have done, anything else is pure supposition.
Sorry to rain on your parade but UK laws about distance selling apply if you are contacted to buy the product ( and in that regard, advertisement, even directly by e-mail, does not constitute an offer). In the present instance, it is more than likely you went online and ordered without them sending you a proposal to buy the game. So you are covered in the same way you would be covered if you'd go and buy a defective television.
Then you enter into the realm of beta release (see my previous posts) and at this stage you are pretty much toast.
Law is quite plain on this. You have 7 days with which to contact a vendor and cancel a purchase that you made online. Those are the distance selling laws. You have the right to see the goods before you commit to the transaction. Once the goods, tangible or otherwise, arrive you may legally return them in the exact condition that you received them and expect a refund if done within 7 working days of receipt.
Nobody need to have contacted you about the goods. This applies to all EU countries. In the UK it is part of the sale of goods act and is legally binding.
I quote the relevant parts of the sale of goods act when returning anything. it heads them off at the pass and returns are always honoured.
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finnyinuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.
Wrong. They have not been "live" / "in beta" for a long enough period of time. As noted by others the EULAs are filled with rights you cannot sign away in Europe, and are widely believed to be non-enforceable outside of the US. It generally hasn't been tested against the courts, however. For example terms 9.d and 9.g are not enforceable in a number of European countries. Also, whether the terms "revocable without cause" is enforceable is very much up to debate at this point (especially after you paid money to them).
Of course, there is always the option to charge back the money from your bank/credit card company, but that will likely get you banned in the process.
No, our government is more interested in protecting the business than the individual consumer. Whether or not that is morally right or wrong is a whole other discussion
not true at all.
The FTC is America's consumer protection agency. If a business doesnt make good on its promises or cheats you out of your money, the FTC wants to know. File a complaint at ftc.gov/complaint.
Actually EULAs are worthless, as has been proven repeatedly in case law, at least in the EU. I'm sorry but you dont know what you are talking about, dont worry most people dont know their rights, I however do. And I am not afraid to enforce them even against big companies. I dont know which country you are from, possibly its the US where you have shockingly bad consumer protection.
It is you that do not know what you are talking about (and yes I live in the EU). There have been very few legal cases that address EULAs but those that have made it through to judgement have repeatedly stated that EULAs are not worthless and it is only specific provisions in them that are not enforceable.
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pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wrong. They have not been "live" / "in beta" for a long enough period of time. As noted by others the EULAs are filled with rights you cannot sign away in Europe, and are widely believed to be non-enforceable outside of the US. It generally hasn't been tested against the courts, however. For example terms 9.d and 9.g are not enforceable in a number of European countries. Also, whether the terms "revocable without cause" is enforceable is very much up to debate at this point (especially after you paid money to them).
Of course, there is always the option to charge back the money from your bank/credit card company, but that will likely get you banned in the process.
EULA and terms of service contracts, even if 'agreed' to by ticking a little box, have absolutely no legally binding validity. In any country, the US included, the rights of the consumer as laid down in law. EULA and TOS are not worth the electronic paper they are written on should there be a need to argue them in court.
It is you that do not know what you are talking about (and yes I live in the EU). There have been very few legal cases that address EULAs but those that have made it through to judgement have repeatedly stated that EULAs are not worthless and it is only specific provisions in them that are not enforceable.
Indeed, a clause that is not enforceable does not void a contract, it is simply "ignored".
One can argue whether the EULA is a contract or not but I doubt this would have any bearing on the point above.
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devostifMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
In the future, please do not use items if you wish to have a refund.
If this was a beta then i actually haven't used anything as the game is not live, Am i wrong?
I agree with your point on this, if it's still beta like so many people are screaming, then the game hasn't fully launched then, so all the items you used are just beta items and not full launch items.
and my response to the first comment is, in the future please don't make games that are just bits and pieces of your other games copied and pasted into one cluster **** of a game, your understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated!
I also appreciate the, check out our latest game part. Neverwinter!!!
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narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I never said anythign about a charge back, I requested a refund as I believe UK and EU consumer protection legislation covering sale of goods and distance selling regulations entitle me to.
Also, dont put your faith in EULAs, they are there to scare you into not trying to enforce your rights. they have zero weight when stacked against national and international laws.
You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.
We sincerely apologize for the delay caused by the large volume of tickets we have received at this time, your ticket is important to us.
Our records show that you have claimed and used items from the Hero of the North Founders' Pack, so we are unable to fulfill your refund request. In the future, please do not use items if you wish to have a refund.
Your understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated!
Thank you for playing!
Perfect World Support
Check out our latest game, Neverwinter!
If this was a beta then i actually haven't used anything as the game is not live, Am i wrong?
You are wrong. The beta is meant to lead into the release without removing the benefits you bought.
You claimed your benefits and in this the transaction is completed and actually TWICE agreed by you.
Once when you bought it and a second time when you redeemed it.
If there are no bugs peventing you from using your benefits, within reason, server downtime is not immediately a breach of contract, then PW did their part of the deal and your basis for a refund is pretty slim.
You have to keep in mind, you did NOT buy the game. You did not buy a working game. You bought benefits within a game.
For those of us lucky to live within the European Union, we have the tools and government agencies to take this matter further to file official complaints in regards to the way that Perfect World has treated us as customers. Many including myself are requesting a refund through the official channels, before we take further steps if we are denied by their customer support, which more than likely will be the case.
So I highly recommend that those of you who are really unhappy with the way you have been treated/cheated and lied too, that you go to the following website mentioned below:
Make sure to fill in the form or even directly contact them by telephone. We need to get our voices heard and we need to get Perfect World to feel the force of what happens when you disrespect paying customers (be it founders or Zen purchasers).
We are hoping that if enough complaints are filed or even if we are lucky to get our case forwarded directly to the European Consumers Rights group, we can get our concerns forward via the European Union courts where the European Consumer Laws will be reviewed in regards to the practices of Perfect World.
As they operate within Europe via their United Kingdom office, they can also be reviewed by the British Trading & Standards, so you Brits out there, make sure to also file a complaint directly with your government agencies.
So do you part! We can't allow companies like Perfect World to get away with what they have done and what they are still doing.
Thanks,
Doowie.
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
Sorry you got banned for exploiting and you don't get to be on equal footing as everyone else.
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pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
Sorry you got banned for exploiting and you don't get to be on equal footing as everyone else.
The economy is not fine, it is shut down. We can't possibly know the state of the economy until the exchange comes back up and we can judge the value of our AD
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daxx360Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I really don't see why people are creating such a huge fuss over this thread. If people want to and are able to seek legal action to obtain their refund then let them. If people want to continue to play this game and still enjoy it, then they can. By posting this information the OP is in no way hindering anyones game experience. He is not whining about anything PWE or Cryptic have done. He is simply giving this information to the people who want it.
I know this is the internet, but seriously it's been so many years now, do we really still need to argue about every little thing?
You are wrong. The beta is meant to lead into the release without removing the benefits you bought.
You claimed your benefits and in this the transaction is completed and actually TWICE agreed by you.
Once when you bought it and a second time when you redeemed it.
If there are no bugs peventing you from using your benefits, within reason, server downtime is not immediately a breach of contract, then PW did their part of the deal and your basis for a refund is pretty slim.
You have to keep in mind, you did NOT buy the game. You did not buy a working game. You bought benefits within a game.
Pressexposed kindly corrected me on this: you have 7 days to ask for a refund for orders made online (don't need any justification). If someone is within this timeframe, the refund can not be disputed and PWE would lose in Court (100%), if they aren't within this timeframe, well, I'm sure the Court would have a giggle before dismissing the request.
Another thing to consider: if someone bought something (a pack, some zen...) and got banned, they can also go to Court. In that instance, it will be down to PWE to prove they cheated but a quicker and more reasonnable course of action would be first to discuss this with customer service. I seriously doubt PWE/Cryptic didn't consider this point seriously before the ban feast they just did (and some senior manager is going to get his <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> handed back to him on a silver plate if they didn't).
You are wrong. The beta is meant to lead into the release without removing the benefits you bought.
You claimed your benefits and in this the transaction is completed and actually TWICE agreed by you.
Once when you bought it and a second time when you redeemed it.
If there are no bugs peventing you from using your benefits, within reason, server downtime is not immediately a breach of contract, then PW did their part of the deal and your basis for a refund is pretty slim.
You have to keep in mind, you did NOT buy the game. You did not buy a working game. You bought benefits within a game.
Quoting from TOS:
"As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors."
That's what he bought.
"When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status."
The economy is not fine, it is shut down. We can't possibly know the state of the economy until the exchange comes back up and we can judge the value of our AD
They rolled back before the big explosion happened. The economy will be the way it was a few days before it.
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pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They rolled back before the big explosion happened. The economy will be the way it was a few days before it.
Again, we can't possibly know that and it's already become evident that this has been going on for weeks. it only became evident because somebody told the wrong guy and it became common knowledge. People were creating accounts just to make quick AD then selling it on a certain site ( the adverts are still appearing there today ) to the gold selling firms.
As I said. We can't know the state of the economy until the AH and the exchange appear and we see how much ill-gotten AD remains in the game.
You can't suppose anything about the state of the economy. 7 hours just cleared up a few hundred accounts of some cats.
Going to say this, and it's probably going to hack off a few people. But it really needs to be said.
Unless you are willing to state, for the record, your bar number and the state you are licensed to practice law in, as well as your specialization, or any equivalent information as pertinent to the EU, then the best you can offer is Googled/Wiki'd speculation.
Neither Google nor Wikipedia are a substitute for a juris doctorate. Please leave the actual interpretation of relevant law to the actual solicitors/lawyers/barristers.
FWIW: Going to court--unless you're lucky enough to find a lawyer to take your case pro bono--is going to cost you a LOT more than 7 hours of rolled back progress would. Just saying.
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And on the Neverwinter home page the game is listed as beta. I would trust the home page for the games status over the little server up listing.
It is not a matter of which to trust, it is a matter of conflicting advertisements putting Cryptic/PWE on shaky ground as regards to enforcing a, "Beta," TOS.
"As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors."
That's what he bought.
"When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status."
These are his benefits.
Wrong. He bought concrete and defined benefits. Amount, a race, etc. Those were delivered and redeemed. Unless they get taken away the contract is fulfilled.
Going to say this, and it's probably going to hack off a few people. But it really needs to be said.
Unless you are willing to state, for the record, your bar number and the state you are licensed to practice law in, as well as your specialization, or any equivalent information as pertinent to the EU, then the best you can offer is Googled/Wiki'd speculation.
Neither Google nor Wikipedia are a substitute for a juris doctorate. Please leave the actual interpretation of relevant law to the actual solicitors/lawyers/barristers.
FWIW: Going to court--unless you're lucky enough to find a lawyer to take your case pro bono--is going to cost you a LOT more than 7 hours of rolled back progress would. Just saying.
Although I agree with your statement about Google/wiki (seriously people, be careful), you don't need to be a lawyer to know the law. A lot of professional have to know it (at least some specific aspects of it) for their day to day job.
Comments
Hello Rikki
We sincerely apologize for the delay caused by the large volume of tickets we have received at this time, your ticket is important to us.
Our records show that you have claimed and used items from the Hero of the North Founders' Pack, so we are unable to fulfill your refund request. In the future, please do not use items if you wish to have a refund.
For further information, please review the terms of service located at: http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms Section 17.
Your understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated!
Thank you for playing!
Perfect World Support
Check out our latest game, Neverwinter!
If this was a beta then i actually haven't used anything as the game is not live, Am i wrong?
If they dont give me a refund I will then decide whether to take action. I have stated my case and will look at their response, If I find it inadequate I will then have to decide whether to pursue it or not. I've done that before and in both cases the company has backed down.
Actually EULAs are worthless, as has been proven repeatedly in case law, at least in the EU. I'm sorry but you dont know what you are talking about, dont worry most people dont know their rights, I however do. And I am not afraid to enforce them even against big companies. I dont know which country you are from, possibly its the US where you have shockingly bad consumer protection.
Sorry to rain on your parade but UK laws about distance selling apply if you are contacted to buy the product ( and in that regard, advertisement, even directly by e-mail, does not constitute an offer). In the present instance, it is more than likely you went online and ordered without them sending you a proposal to buy the game. So you are covered in the same way you would be covered if you'd go and buy a defective television.
Then you enter into the realm of beta release (see my previous posts) and at this stage you are pretty much toast.
There may be recourse in the future if it can be proven that the exchange is a real cash economy and that Cryptic have been negligent in protecting their customer's investment. It remains to be seen if they remedy it to any satisfaction. Closing the exchange and opening it later after many exploiters sold billions in AD to the gold sellers is not really a remedy.
Exactly what have they done?
Do you think that you have a valid complaint for losing less than 1 days progress while a game is in Beta due to the need to fix an issue and stating that they will ban people who exploited a bug? Because those are the only things that you actually know they have done, anything else is pure supposition.
I can understand that many want to defend Perfect World and I'm not complaining about wipes or rollbacks. My account has already been banned as I have disputed the payments already and also contacted Perfect Worlds customer support. I'm here to inform people how to do things the legal and correct way if they wish to complain to an official governing body.
Remember that Europe has completely different laws which protect consumers here. If you are happy with what you've got, then please continue to enjoy the game and what it has to offer you, we aren't stopping you from enjoying that, but you are trying to stop people from wanting to legally complain with your trolling/flaming on a forum.
People are indeed entitled to their opinion, but you should do some research before making a post.
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Hero of the North & Guardian of Neverwinter Founder.
Blizzard and Ubisoft have already been warned by the "Verbraucherschutzzentrale".
They had to sign a declaration to cease and desist, because they violated German laws.
You have good chances in this case as well, when you payed for the product and can't play it due to server issues, and so on.
Unfortunately the virtual goods must be unopened and still in their plastic wrap for a refund to be warranted.
As of right now there is nothing though. It happens in games all the time. WoW does it all the time. People spend months grinding raids for gear only for it to become useless when an expansion comes out. Defiance rolled back their servers not too long after launch because people found a way to make more scrip than intended. Pretty sure GW2 did a rollback when people found vendors that would buy stuff for 100x what it was worth.
I'm not saying don't try if you feel whole heartily that you were wronged. EU went after Sega over that atrocious Aliens game. But it was blatantly false advertised.
I think you need to read my post again
60 Drow Trickster Rogue
11 Elf Control Wizard
Server: Beholder
Guild: Praetor Lupus
Guild Website: http://www.PraetorLupus.com
Hero of the North & Guardian of Neverwinter Founder.
Law is quite plain on this. You have 7 days with which to contact a vendor and cancel a purchase that you made online. Those are the distance selling laws. You have the right to see the goods before you commit to the transaction. Once the goods, tangible or otherwise, arrive you may legally return them in the exact condition that you received them and expect a refund if done within 7 working days of receipt.
Nobody need to have contacted you about the goods. This applies to all EU countries. In the UK it is part of the sale of goods act and is legally binding.
I quote the relevant parts of the sale of goods act when returning anything. it heads them off at the pass and returns are always honoured.
Wrong. They have not been "live" / "in beta" for a long enough period of time. As noted by others the EULAs are filled with rights you cannot sign away in Europe, and are widely believed to be non-enforceable outside of the US. It generally hasn't been tested against the courts, however. For example terms 9.d and 9.g are not enforceable in a number of European countries. Also, whether the terms "revocable without cause" is enforceable is very much up to debate at this point (especially after you paid money to them).
Of course, there is always the option to charge back the money from your bank/credit card company, but that will likely get you banned in the process.
The FTC is America's consumer protection agency. If a business doesnt make good on its promises or cheats you out of your money, the FTC wants to know. File a complaint at ftc.gov/complaint.
It is you that do not know what you are talking about (and yes I live in the EU). There have been very few legal cases that address EULAs but those that have made it through to judgement have repeatedly stated that EULAs are not worthless and it is only specific provisions in them that are not enforceable.
EULA and terms of service contracts, even if 'agreed' to by ticking a little box, have absolutely no legally binding validity. In any country, the US included, the rights of the consumer as laid down in law. EULA and TOS are not worth the electronic paper they are written on should there be a need to argue them in court.
Indeed, a clause that is not enforceable does not void a contract, it is simply "ignored".
One can argue whether the EULA is a contract or not but I doubt this would have any bearing on the point above.
I agree with your point on this, if it's still beta like so many people are screaming, then the game hasn't fully launched then, so all the items you used are just beta items and not full launch items.
and my response to the first comment is, in the future please don't make games that are just bits and pieces of your other games copied and pasted into one cluster **** of a game, your understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated!
I also appreciate the, check out our latest game part. Neverwinter!!!
You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.
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You are wrong. The beta is meant to lead into the release without removing the benefits you bought.
You claimed your benefits and in this the transaction is completed and actually TWICE agreed by you.
Once when you bought it and a second time when you redeemed it.
If there are no bugs peventing you from using your benefits, within reason, server downtime is not immediately a breach of contract, then PW did their part of the deal and your basis for a refund is pretty slim.
You have to keep in mind, you did NOT buy the game. You did not buy a working game. You bought benefits within a game.
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
Sorry you got banned for exploiting and you don't get to be on equal footing as everyone else.
The economy is not fine, it is shut down. We can't possibly know the state of the economy until the exchange comes back up and we can judge the value of our AD
I know this is the internet, but seriously it's been so many years now, do we really still need to argue about every little thing?
Pressexposed kindly corrected me on this: you have 7 days to ask for a refund for orders made online (don't need any justification). If someone is within this timeframe, the refund can not be disputed and PWE would lose in Court (100%), if they aren't within this timeframe, well, I'm sure the Court would have a giggle before dismissing the request.
Another thing to consider: if someone bought something (a pack, some zen...) and got banned, they can also go to Court. In that instance, it will be down to PWE to prove they cheated but a quicker and more reasonnable course of action would be first to discuss this with customer service. I seriously doubt PWE/Cryptic didn't consider this point seriously before the ban feast they just did (and some senior manager is going to get his <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> handed back to him on a silver plate if they didn't).
Quoting from TOS:
"As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors."
That's what he bought.
"When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status."
These are his benefits.
They rolled back before the big explosion happened. The economy will be the way it was a few days before it.
Again, we can't possibly know that and it's already become evident that this has been going on for weeks. it only became evident because somebody told the wrong guy and it became common knowledge. People were creating accounts just to make quick AD then selling it on a certain site ( the adverts are still appearing there today ) to the gold selling firms.
As I said. We can't know the state of the economy until the AH and the exchange appear and we see how much ill-gotten AD remains in the game.
You can't suppose anything about the state of the economy. 7 hours just cleared up a few hundred accounts of some cats.
Unless you are willing to state, for the record, your bar number and the state you are licensed to practice law in, as well as your specialization, or any equivalent information as pertinent to the EU, then the best you can offer is Googled/Wiki'd speculation.
Neither Google nor Wikipedia are a substitute for a juris doctorate. Please leave the actual interpretation of relevant law to the actual solicitors/lawyers/barristers.
FWIW: Going to court--unless you're lucky enough to find a lawyer to take your case pro bono--is going to cost you a LOT more than 7 hours of rolled back progress would. Just saying.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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It is not a matter of which to trust, it is a matter of conflicting advertisements putting Cryptic/PWE on shaky ground as regards to enforcing a, "Beta," TOS.
This is incorrect as there is a separate icon for open beta. The icon for Open Beta is not being used for NWO, the icon for live is.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Wrong. He bought concrete and defined benefits. Amount, a race, etc. Those were delivered and redeemed. Unless they get taken away the contract is fulfilled.
Although I agree with your statement about Google/wiki (seriously people, be careful), you don't need to be a lawyer to know the law. A lot of professional have to know it (at least some specific aspects of it) for their day to day job.