All unhappy European customers, file your official and legal complaints about PW!

doowie1982 · May 2013

Good Evening,

For those of us lucky to live within the European Union, we have the tools and government agencies to take this matter further to file official complaints in regards to the way that Perfect World has treated us as customers. Many including myself are requesting a refund through the official channels, before we take further steps if we are denied by their customer support, which more than likely will be the case.

So I highly recommend that those of you who are really unhappy with the way you have been treated/cheated and lied too, that you go to the following website mentioned below:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/contact_en.htm

Make sure to fill in the form or even directly contact them by telephone. We need to get our voices heard and we need to get Perfect World to feel the force of what happens when you disrespect paying customers (be it founders or Zen purchasers).

We are hoping that if enough complaints are filed or even if we are lucky to get our case forwarded directly to the European Consumers Rights group, we can get our concerns forward via the European Union courts where the European Consumer Laws will be reviewed in regards to the practices of Perfect World.

As they operate within Europe via their United Kingdom office, they can also be reviewed by the British Trading & Standards, so you Brits out there, make sure to also file a complaint directly with your government agencies.

So do you part! We can't allow companies like Perfect World to get away with what they have done and what they are still doing.

Thanks,
Doowie.

wolvesfang1224 · May 2013

I don't see how they are treating anyone badly?
Is this because they didn't do Character wipes? Cause if it is you need to grow up
and understand that they took action with the smallest repercussion possible
while still addressing the main issue. If they did complete roll backs their player base
would take a serious decline due to some player's unwillingness to go through the
leveling process again. Again, I do not see any clear infringement of PWE ToS so, if
you do see something that they have neglected please enlighten us.

merrinset · May 2013

Gets funnier every time I see it.

maximilious · May 2013

Waawaaa report these monsters for not wiping our asses!

mumps4 · May 2013

Thank you for the information doowie1982.

Although I don't need it, I like it when people care to enlighten others about their rights. All others, feel free to stay dense.

hycinthus · May 2013

Anything similar for Americans?

narathkor · May 2013

And what exactly are they doing, giving you exactly what you paid for without any misrepresentation of the product at hand. They tell you it is a beta, also did you even bother to read the terms of service? You got your AD, you got your mount, you got your items, you got your early access. What have they not given you that they promissed? Explain your legal ground. You have none.

valondon · May 2013

hycinthus wrote: »

Anything similar for Americans?

No, our government is more interested in protecting the business than the individual consumer. Whether or not that is morally right or wrong is a whole other discussion

drzeyus · May 2013

wish there was a similar thing for canada

maximilious · May 2013

narathkor wrote: »

And what exactly are they doing, giving you exactly what you paid for without any misrepresentation of the product at hand. They tell you it is a beta, also did you even bother to read the terms of service? You got your AD, you got your mount, you got your items, you got your early access. What have they not given you that they promissed? Explain your legal ground. You have none.

I like this post... why can't you make more posts like this?

azuregate · May 2013

Great and informative post, will definitely be useful to disgruntled customers in the EU.

Lol at the first few responses to this topic, nowhere did the OP mention anything about wipes. But clearly, they didn't bother reading and simply assumed it.

More likely it's the thoroughly inept developers, making the simplest, most mind numbingly ridiculous mistakes that allowed exploit after exploit through. The fact that they took over 5 days to respond to the guardian exploit, even though it went full blown public knowledge before that.

Their incompetent devs, slowness at responding to game destroying situations, and blatant greed are deplorable.

moonskin666 · May 2013

narathkor wrote: »

And what exactly are they doing, giving you exactly what you paid for without any misrepresentation of the product at hand. They tell you it is a beta, also did you even bother to read the terms of service? You got your AD, you got your mount, you got your items, you got your early access. What have they not given you that they promissed? Explain your legal ground. You have none.

This.
Remember a beta is a software being pre-released to be tested on a large scale. It is, by definition, subject to change, roll back, wipes and any other form of "inconvenience". You signed up for it, agreed to it, spent your money and had whatever it is you ordered. Although the concept of opening the cash shop during a beta is somewhat questionable (but not illegal), you had everything you ordered. The only way you would have a legal leg to stand on would be if you'd lose money (for example a server wipe with no refund of whatever it is you paid for and didn't get back) or if there was a misrepresentation of the product or service sold.
Please, do your research before posting incorrect information about legal matter on a public place, this can lead to some serious issues for some.
Good luck with your complaint, it sure will give the Court a giggle before they dismiss it... if it ever goes up to the Court.

coggage · May 2013

Why would I go to that much effort over a free game? It's not like I actually lost anything.

drzeyus · May 2013

The game was listed as a beta release yes. But really in effect it should be an alpha release.

If it was a true beta release then there shouldnt of been a real money transaction store. There should be a complete wipe when fully launched. As a beta test we could of gotten certian free zen to test out the zen store. This is what we were lied about. This isnt a beta its a full launch called a beta by the company.

strike2wce · May 2013

You acknowledge that the you are using a preliminary, preview edition of the Websites features and the Beta Games and that you are participating in a beta test thereof (the "Beta Test"), and that the Beta Games site Website features may contain bugs, may not operate properly or perform all intended functions, may interfere with the functioning of other software applications, and may cause errors, data loss or other problems.
As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors. Nothing in these Terms, or on this Website, shall be construed as granting you any rights or privileges of any kind with respect to the Beta Games or content that you find here. The Beta Games are provided for testing on an "as is", "as available" basis and we make no warranty to you of any kind, express or implied. You understand and agree that playing Beta Games is at your own risk, that you know that the Beta Games may include known or unknown bugs, and that PWE has no obligations to you with respect to Beta Games, including without limitation any obligation to provide such games to you in the future at no charge.

When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status.

You should really read the ToS sometime. However, it seems pointless to post it here since you wouldn't spend the time to read it before.

naamapeikko · May 2013

Is this guy serious. You want to take legal actions against PW because servers were rolled back 7 hours? I'm pretty sure you can find something in EULA that gives them the full right to do that.

I'm a customer that has used 56 something euros on this game and I don't feel mistreated in anyway.

Game is officially in "beta" which I knew when I invested money in the game. Even though it's just a clever trick to sell an unfinished product it still lets everyone know that there are gonna be bugs and other unwanted stuff happening.

ashensnow · May 2013

On the PWE home page where all of their games are listed NWO is labeled as Live (an "L" next to the name of the game).

moonskin666 · May 2013

drzeyus wrote: »

The game was listed as a beta release yes. But really in effect it should be an alpha release.

If it was a true beta release then there shouldnt of been a real money transaction store. There should be a complete wipe when fully launched. As a beta test we could of gotten certian free zen to test out the zen store. This is what we were lied about. This isnt a beta its a full launch called a beta by the company.

A beta is just a pre-release of a software to be tested on large scale. That is all there is to it, the rest (no cash transaction, wipes, etc...) comes from the voices in your head talking about best practice (that are not legally required). PWE has never been know to apply such things as best practice.

cameirus · May 2013

Thank you.
In the first instance I always try to resolve issues with the company directly and to that end I have lodged a ticket with PWE stating my grievance, how I believe it impact on my statutory rights under the relevant legislation, and requested a full refund. I will give them a reasonable time to respond, usually 5 working days and if its not resolved to my satisfaction I will consider further action at that time.
I would hope PWE resolve this quickly, but if not I may have to take it further as I have done with other companies (D3 with Bliz and PS2 with Sony) , always to a satisfactory conclusion on my part.

strike2wce · May 2013

ashensnow wrote: »

On the PWE home page where all of their games are listed NWO is labeled as Live (an "L" next to the name of the game).

However when you go to the main Neverwinter website, it clearly states it's in beta. A simple bug in the HTML (which I'm sure they've explained before) on the PWE website that is replacing the beta icon with the live icon.

finnyinu · May 2013

After being told there would be no full server roll-back about 3 - 5 times, and they still roll it back? That is going back on a promise. Also, pointing to the terms of service is quite funny, as most of these, while not actually tested in court, will likely not stand up to be a valid agreement, at least not within Europe.

I am more than a bit pissed, as their extended down-time also caused me to lose all the celestial coins I accumulated throughout the week. As well as the 7 hours they rolled back were the only time the entire week I really played (other than setting up professions / invoking). This "package" of them better be really good to worth all that time.

narathkor · May 2013

drzeyus wrote: »

The game was listed as a beta release yes. But really in effect it should be an alpha release.

If it was a true beta release then there shouldnt of been a real money transaction store. There should be a complete wipe when fully launched. As a beta test we could of gotten certian free zen to test out the zen store. This is what we were lied about. This isnt a beta its a full launch called a beta by the company.

No this is a beta, and it is performing exactly like a beta. Selling items has nothing to do with it being beta or not. You do not even need to have a game to sell items, just put your game idea on kickstarter and promise people sword of impending dooms.

cameirus · May 2013

strike2wce wrote: »

You should really read the ToS sometime. However, it seems pointless to post it here since you wouldn't spend the time to read it before.

EULA are not worth anything. At least not in the EU. They cannot trump national or EU law, and you cannot sign away statutory rights no matter what you agree to.

strike2wce · May 2013

finnyinu wrote: »

After being told there would be no full server roll-back about 3 - 5 times, and they still roll it back? That is going back on a promise. Also, pointing to the terms of service is quite funny, as most of these, while not actually tested in court, will likely not stand up to be a valid agreement, at least not within Europe.

I am more than a bit pissed, as their extended down-time also caused me to lose all the celestial coins I accumulated throughout the week. As well as the 7 hours they rolled back were the only time the entire week I really played (other than setting up professions / invoking). This "package" of them better be really good to worth all that time.

I'm pretty sure they said no wipes. There's a big difference between a wipe and a roll back.

narathkor · May 2013

cameirus wrote: »

Thank you.
In the first instance I always try to resolve issues with the company directly and to that end I have lodged a ticket with PWE stating my grievance, how I believe it impact on my statutory rights under the relevant legislation, and requested a full refund. I will give them a reasonable time to respond, usually 5 working days and if its not resolved to my satisfaction I will consider further action at that time.
I would hope PWE resolve this quickly, but if not I may have to take it further as I have done with other companies (D3 with Bliz and PS2 with Sony) , always to a satisfactory conclusion on my part.

Those other companies you mentioned did not make it a point to state in their terms of service that "If you issue a charge back, and we believe it to be invalid, we will proceed with an lawsuit" its right in the terms of service you agreed to. So if you got what you paid for (and you did) then they have every right to sue you for their losses.

terradraconis · May 2013

ashensnow wrote: »

On the PWE home page where all of their games are listed NWO is labeled as Live (an "L" next to the name of the game).

And on the Neverwinter home page the game is listed as beta. I would trust the home page for the games status over the little server up listing.

narathkor · May 2013

ashensnow wrote: »

On the PWE home page where all of their games are listed NWO is labeled as Live (an "L" next to the name of the game).

Live means it is playable, does not mean launch lol. Big difference between live and launch, the beta is quite live playing it right now.

cameirus · May 2013

narathkor wrote: »

Those other companies you mentioned did not make it a point to state in their terms of service that "If you issue a charge back, and we believe it to be invalid, we will proceed with an lawsuit" its right in the terms of service you agreed to. So if you got what you paid for (and you did) then they have every right to sue you for their losses.

I never said anythign about a charge back, I requested a refund as I believe UK and EU consumer protection legislation covering sale of goods and distance selling regulations entitle me to.

Also, dont put your faith in EULAs, they are there to scare you into not trying to enforce your rights. they have zero weight when stacked against national and international laws.

finnyinu · May 2013

strike2wce wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they said no wipes. There's a big difference between a wipe and a roll back.

Hrmm, maybe I read that wrong, then again, I was reading it previously at like 3 am... At any rate, doesn't make me any less annoyed at all of this ^^

narathkor · May 2013

cameirus wrote: »

I never said anythign about a charge back, I requested a refund as I believe UK and EU consumer protection legislation covering sale of goods and distance selling regulations entitle me to.

Also, dont put your faith in EULAs, they are there to scare you into not trying to enforce your rights. they have zero weight when stacked against national and international laws.

You can request a refund, but they do not have to give you one. You got what you paid for. No law can protect you from getting what you paid for and having buyers remorse. Those EULA's are built by teams of very expensive lawyers to cover their butts, not to scare anything.

valondon · May 2013

strike2wce wrote: »

You should really read the ToS sometime. However, it seems pointless to post it here since you wouldn't spend the time to read it before.

ToS's are a cover your rear type thing. Unfortunately for companies, their ToS is null and void if it violates consumer protection laws. However, I'm unfamiliar with Europe's laws so I cannot comment on whether or not this ToS violates it.

All unhappy European customers, file your official and legal complaints about PW!

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