Wiping would just put people who have not spent real money at a disadvantage again. You've spent 200$ on Zen, I've bought over 400$ worth of Zen with my efforts. How do you put a price on time?
Anyone that thinks this doesn't affect them has no understanding of economics and is incredibly naive.
Billions of ADs have been created from nothing causing massive hyperinflation of the economy. Cryptic/PWE will not be able to remove all of this currency because it has been going on since launch and much of it is now in the hands of innocent players who traded for it.
Hyperinflation means skyrocketing prices. If you did not get hold of these duped ADs in some way you will not be able to afford a single thing on the AH. It has everything to do with you and does affect you.
Bans and character-specific rollbacks of the the exploiters will not be enough as the ADs are now in the hands of innocent players. A general rollback will not be enough as this has been going on since launch. The only option to fix this is a complete wipe.
I follow the Auction House closely, and there are only two pricing categories. 1) Surprisingly cheap for most adventure-found items. 2) Stupidly expensive for most Zen-store items.
The bug exploit hasnt changed anything at all.
So what if there are extra Astral Diamonds in the market place? The economy - any economy - will inevitably fix itself. The laws of supply and demand will continue to work, and eventually, prices will fluctuate until reaching their utilitarian value. Likewise, if there are "extra Astral Diamonds" in innocent hands, the overall market will compensate via inflation. So, Zen money will be able to purchase more Astral Diamonds. Thus no one suffers any loss.
There is nothing to wipe. Nothing to fix.
The economy - via the players who demand stuff at reasonable prices depending on the supply - will fix itself.
The main counter to a full money wipe + Zen refund at this point are people who claim to have worked so hard for what they've obtained (in a month or less). Please, take a step back, think about how much whatever measly money you've gained means when people are stockpiling literally infinite amounts of AD. Sure, the markets will even out (over time, but how much time?), but even then, those who exploited will permanently have the advantage over any non-exploiting player.
As far as the market evening out - of course it will. Unfortunately, it will even out at a higher point that it would had the exploits never happened, resulting in the non-exploiting players having to work harder and pay more for gear, and the exploiting player viewing the auction house/trading system as a way to get browse his or her own personal unlimited piggy bank.
All things considered, NOT wiping the servers is punishing the people who did not exploit and vastly rewarding those who did.
I follow the Auction House closely, and there are only two pricing categories. 1) Surprisingly cheap for most adventure-found items. 2) Stupidly expensive for most Zen-store items.
The bug exploit hasnt changed anything at all.
So what if there are extra Astral Diamonds in the market place? The economy - any economy - will inevitably fix itself. The laws of supply and demand will continue to work, and eventually, prices will fluctuate until reaching their utilitarian value. Likewise, if there are "extra Astral Diamonds" in innocent hands, the overall market will compensate via inflation. So, Zen money will be able to purchase more Astral Diamonds. Thus no one suffers any loss.
There is nothing to wipe. Nothing to fix.
The economy - via the players who demand stuff at reasonable prices depending on the supply - will fix itself.
Finally, some voice of reason and understanding of economics related to MMOs. Dupes and ill gotten currency in games and MMOs have existed a long time, and there has never been a total collapse where an economy did not recover. The key is that it takes time for an economy to stabilize and there is wild swings before reaching that equilibrium.
0
necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wiping would just put people who have not spent real money at a disadvantage again. You've spent 200$ on Zen, I've bought over 400$ worth of Zen with my efforts. How do you put a price on time?
a price IS on it, you spent 0$ for your exploiting, and the person you refered to in your imaginary example spent 200$ on it. maybe if there was a wipe you would actually earn the zen this time, or pay for it like some of us. rather than expecting us to pay for it for you.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
0
necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Anyone with IQ higher than room temperature would like to see evidence that this exploit affected the economy in a hopeless way, deeply impacting the gameplay. Other than that, it's just a silly game of goofball opinions.
sup exploiter, livin it up?
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
The main counter to a full money wipe + Zen refund at this point are people who claim to have worked so hard for what they've obtained (in a month or less). Please, take a step back, think about how much whatever measly money you've gained means when people are stockpiling literally infinite amounts of AD. Sure, the markets will even out (over time, but how much time?), but even then, those who exploited will permanently have the advantage over any non-exploiting player.
As far as the market evening out - of course it will. Unfortunately, it will even out at a higher point that it would had the exploits never happened, resulting in the non-exploiting players having to work harder and pay more for gear, and the exploiting player viewing the auction house/trading system as a way to get browse his or her own personal unlimited piggy bank.
All things considered, NOT wiping the servers is punishing the people who did not exploit and vastly rewarding those who did.
Actually, a higher price point is irrelevant. Players who sell found items in the Auction House will likewise get more money for these items. Everything evens out moreorless. The size of the currency is irrelevant.
The US has dollars, the EU has euros. The size of the currency has nothing to do with market forces.
Inflation in and of it self is not necessarily bad and even economists & world governments encourage slight inflation. Hyper inflation is bad in the short term but will correct it self over time. Deflation, on the other hand is devastating and takes a significant time & effort to recover from.
Finally, some voice of reason and understanding of economics related to MMOs. Dupes and ill gotten currency in games and MMOs have existed a long time, and there has never been a total collapse where an economy did not recover. The key is that it takes time for an economy to stabilize and there is wild swings before reaching that equilibrium.
Besides, Neverwinter is new and in beta. The market is in chaos anyway. Some of the default prices in the Auction Hall are laughable. The game is still in the process of stabilizing and adjusting to factual prices. They dont yet reflect the value that players perceive. So, any market adjustments that exploits require are unnoticeable while the market is in flux anyway.
0
necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I follow the Auction House closely, and there are only two pricing categories. 1) Surprisingly cheap for most adventure-found items. 2) Stupidly expensive for most Zen-store items.
The bug exploit hasnt changed anything at all.
So what if there are extra Astral Diamonds in the market place? The economy - any economy - will inevitably fix itself. The laws of supply and demand will continue to work, and eventually, prices will fluctuate until reaching their utilitarian value. Likewise, if there are "extra Astral Diamonds" in innocent hands, the overall market will compensate via inflation. So, Zen money will be able to purchase more Astral Diamonds. Thus no one suffers any loss.
There is nothing to wipe. Nothing to fix.
The economy - via the players who demand stuff at reasonable prices depending on the supply - will fix itself.
hey HAMSTER, I did not expect this sort of bs from exploiter like you, and had my zen (bought with USD , real $) turned into diamonds, I will NOT wait months with a ****ing 'hope' that I will lose less zen that i paid real money for than I would right now to pricks like you. I should not lose any, this **** would have leveled out at a much different point int ime had there not been this gd exploit. there is no way in hell I am spending more $ on this game, and there is no way in hell I am giving exploiters like you free zen at my expense by taking aloss on it just to get some back that i will need at a point. I had a wonderful day dream earlier, that anonymous came and generously did the server wipe for us, reset the zen on our accounts for thos eof who spent real $, and then posted the person information of the azzhats that pulled this **** and got away with it. unfortunately,t hat will never happen and I will simply have to settle for payment disputes and beating the first little snot i come across like you irl bragging about some stunt like this on any sort of game untilt hey are nearly dead or my body feels satisfied witht he numbe rof and intensity of impacts while beating them. my only satisfaction unfortunately will likely be that realistically, I may wind up having to stick around until I can phish a few accounts or find a good enough exploit that i can turn into real $ to get my money back depending ont hings go for me i guess.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
The US has dollars, the EU has euros. The size of the currency has nothing to do with market forces.
and if 20% of US citizens suddenly had wealth equal to Bill Gates, what would the life savings of everyone else be worth?
I agree that size alone really doesn't have any impact on a market, but a massive inflation such as this, and having such a large player base with infinite wealth has a very significant impact on it. The impact won't be felt nearly as hard by the new players going into the game as it will be felt by those who have already invested time, effort, and money into the game. The more you've invested without exploiting, the more you're at stake to lose if there is not a full reset of the servers with a Zen refund.
0
necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Besides, Neverwinter is new and in beta. The market is in chaos anyway. Some of the default prices in the Auction Hall are laughable. The game is still in the process of stabilizing and adjusting to factual prices. They dont yet reflect the value that players perceive. So, any market adjustments that exploits require are unnoticeable while the market is in flux anyway.
I love all the happy exploiters posting this sort of **** to get people to accept that they got away with it, at our expense. i hope someone beats the living **** out of you exploiters until you're a bunch of vegetables.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
When World of Tanks did a wipe after Beta before going "live" there were a LOT of "beta testers" who had been there from the closed beta like me who just gave up and left. People get tired of doing the same thing over and over again. I didn't want to grind again for the tanks I worked so hard for. At least WoT Devs gave all "beta testers" a little prize for the wipe and sticking it out.
and if 20% of US citizens suddenly had wealth equal to Bill Gates, what would the life savings of everyone else be worth?
I agree that size alone really doesn't have any impact on a market, but a massive inflation such as this, and having such a large player base with infinite wealth has a very significant impact on it. The impact won't be felt nearly as hard by the new players going into the game as it will be felt by those who have already invested time, effort, and money into the game. The more you've invested without exploiting, the more you're at stake to lose.[/Q
If they full wipe Ill quit, I'm not gonna do everything all over again just to get back where I was. My times valuable to me, not to mention tons of other games are out or are coming out that I want to play.
Well, i have to say that the only reason i threw any time OR money into nwo is because they had said there wouldnt be a wipe. ive been paying for mmo's for years and what i WONT do is pay 2x in a row for the same thing. im closing in on level 60 with my main toon, and ive already did EVERY SINGLE quest up to that point.
Basically what im sayin is if im gonna suffer cause a bunch of dumbasses exploited something they shoulda caught in the first place...im gonna go elsewhere....and i wont touch another PWI game ever again.
So on that note, i hope everyone who feels the same way as i do just goes to other games if they wipe.
Besides, Neverwinter is new and in beta. The market is in chaos anyway. Some of the default prices in the Auction Hall are laughable. The game is still in the process of stabilizing and adjusting to factual prices. They dont yet reflect the value that players perceive. So, any market adjustments that exploits require are unnoticeable while the market is in flux anyway.
The prices in the auction hall are laughable and do not reflect the majority of players ability to make a steady income. When you have an elite, scarce item such as T2 and it costs millions of AD. Very few players even have a million AD or more. It takes time for the large pool of AD, held by small number of players in relation to overall population, to circulate to the general populace. I'm not condoning the exploiters but there's a lot of people that want a wipe because the "flood" of T2 items (which would eventually happen anyways as more people reach lvl 60), lowered the price of their T2 item within a few days. Eventually, when there is a solid number of lvl 60s, T2 items will go down further in value as T3 will be the next upgrade and eventually Cryptic introduces higher tiers of gear or specialty gear.
Your character will be wiped when it goes live anyways...so a full wipe is not as bad as people seem to think it is.
Granted, I don't think one will help that much; but if it does happen...well, its just like what will happen when the beta closes and live launches:
You will re-level, re-acquire everything...OH:
For those of you buying Zen with cash....you lose everything when it launches. Nice money wasted for no other reason than to "test" the Zen-buying system (which devs can do for free).
Why a wipe won't work.
Any game not in maintance mode gets updates
updates can contain bugs
bugs can be exploited
sometime in the future you'd be asking for a wipe again.
wipe only hurts gold farmers and people that buy from them
with this bug or exploit hurts everybody in the game and who knows how many free accounts they made to do this on and where all the AD went or items they got with the AD
Not supporting a full char wipe i spent alot of zen and AD to get my epics for my rogue and worked really hard 5 days for my TR to get to 60 and now level 40 GWF (he harder) please dont wipe
Your character will be wiped when it goes live anyways...so a full wipe is not as bad as people seem to think it is.
Granted, I don't think one will help that much; but if it does happen...well, its just like what will happen when the beta closes and live launches:
You will re-level, re-acquire everything...OH:
For those of you buying Zen with cash....you lose everything when it launches. Nice money wasted for no other reason than to "test" the Zen-buying system (which devs can do for free).
Attention!: Your characters will not be wiped when it goes live.
It was confirmed that your ZEN would be wiped, and a lot of rage in this thread is in that area...and proof on no character wipe?
I'm not being rude or anything, but I need proof that an MMO would not wipe its characters on beta...since every MMO does?
LINKS PLEASE FOR PROOF!
Go to the Neverwinter Twitter and find your own proof. Its not my job to do your research. You should know what your talking about before you spew false info like you actually know what your talking about.
wipe only hurts gold farmers and people that buy from them
with this bug or exploit hurts everybody in the game and who knows how many free accounts they made to do this on and where all the AD went or items they got with the AD
Nice way to quote me and not even reply to what I actually said. If you mean financially a wipe only hurts pwe, (lost players), and people that buy gold, gold sellers would be happy because it means there is always another fool.
It was confirmed that your ZEN would be wiped, and a lot of rage in this thread is in that area...and proof on no character wipe?
I'm not being rude or anything, but I need proof that an MMO would not wipe its characters on beta...since every MMO does?
LINKS PLEASE FOR PROOF!
but it is not going live and they said nothing about a wipe in beta if they do a wipe now and we in open beta and it goes live next week then they kept there word
Go to the Neverwinter Twitter and find your own proof. Its not my job to do your research. You should know what your talking about before you spew false info like you actually know what your talking about.
No, there will be no character wipe between open beta and live launch.
^ I messed it up, but you are correct; No character wipe, just ZEN wipe.
So to all the people I was wronged into...my bad, didnt scroll down far enough on twitter.
Nice way to quote me and not even reply to what I actually said. If you mean financially a wipe only hurts pwe, (lost players), and people that buy gold, gold sellers would be happy because it means there is always another fool.
funny considering over twice as many people voted "yes" to the wipe than voted "no"
apparently NOT wiping would cause PWE to lose more players.
try using your brain for once in your life. you might like it.
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guruchazMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
The problem now with wiping the servers is that those who already spent money on the Founder's Packs and anything costing Zen would be totally screwed out of their items and money...unless they keep a record of everything each player purchased and also restore that.
You can't open the Zen shop and then just wipe out everything people bought.
Comments
The bug exploit hasnt changed anything at all.
So what if there are extra Astral Diamonds in the market place? The economy - any economy - will inevitably fix itself. The laws of supply and demand will continue to work, and eventually, prices will fluctuate until reaching their utilitarian value. Likewise, if there are "extra Astral Diamonds" in innocent hands, the overall market will compensate via inflation. So, Zen money will be able to purchase more Astral Diamonds. Thus no one suffers any loss.
There is nothing to wipe. Nothing to fix.
The economy - via the players who demand stuff at reasonable prices depending on the supply - will fix itself.
As far as the market evening out - of course it will. Unfortunately, it will even out at a higher point that it would had the exploits never happened, resulting in the non-exploiting players having to work harder and pay more for gear, and the exploiting player viewing the auction house/trading system as a way to get browse his or her own personal unlimited piggy bank.
All things considered, NOT wiping the servers is punishing the people who did not exploit and vastly rewarding those who did.
Finally, some voice of reason and understanding of economics related to MMOs. Dupes and ill gotten currency in games and MMOs have existed a long time, and there has never been a total collapse where an economy did not recover. The key is that it takes time for an economy to stabilize and there is wild swings before reaching that equilibrium.
a price IS on it, you spent 0$ for your exploiting, and the person you refered to in your imaginary example spent 200$ on it. maybe if there was a wipe you would actually earn the zen this time, or pay for it like some of us. rather than expecting us to pay for it for you.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
sup exploiter, livin it up?
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
The US has dollars, the EU has euros. The size of the currency has nothing to do with market forces.
hey HAMSTER, I did not expect this sort of bs from exploiter like you, and had my zen (bought with USD , real $) turned into diamonds, I will NOT wait months with a ****ing 'hope' that I will lose less zen that i paid real money for than I would right now to pricks like you. I should not lose any, this **** would have leveled out at a much different point int ime had there not been this gd exploit. there is no way in hell I am spending more $ on this game, and there is no way in hell I am giving exploiters like you free zen at my expense by taking aloss on it just to get some back that i will need at a point. I had a wonderful day dream earlier, that anonymous came and generously did the server wipe for us, reset the zen on our accounts for thos eof who spent real $, and then posted the person information of the azzhats that pulled this **** and got away with it. unfortunately,t hat will never happen and I will simply have to settle for payment disputes and beating the first little snot i come across like you irl bragging about some stunt like this on any sort of game untilt hey are nearly dead or my body feels satisfied witht he numbe rof and intensity of impacts while beating them. my only satisfaction unfortunately will likely be that realistically, I may wind up having to stick around until I can phish a few accounts or find a good enough exploit that i can turn into real $ to get my money back depending ont hings go for me i guess.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
and if 20% of US citizens suddenly had wealth equal to Bill Gates, what would the life savings of everyone else be worth?
I agree that size alone really doesn't have any impact on a market, but a massive inflation such as this, and having such a large player base with infinite wealth has a very significant impact on it. The impact won't be felt nearly as hard by the new players going into the game as it will be felt by those who have already invested time, effort, and money into the game. The more you've invested without exploiting, the more you're at stake to lose if there is not a full reset of the servers with a Zen refund.
I love all the happy exploiters posting this sort of **** to get people to accept that they got away with it, at our expense. i hope someone beats the living **** out of you exploiters until you're a bunch of vegetables.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
Basically what im sayin is if im gonna suffer cause a bunch of dumbasses exploited something they shoulda caught in the first place...im gonna go elsewhere....and i wont touch another PWI game ever again.
So on that note, i hope everyone who feels the same way as i do just goes to other games if they wipe.
The prices in the auction hall are laughable and do not reflect the majority of players ability to make a steady income. When you have an elite, scarce item such as T2 and it costs millions of AD. Very few players even have a million AD or more. It takes time for the large pool of AD, held by small number of players in relation to overall population, to circulate to the general populace. I'm not condoning the exploiters but there's a lot of people that want a wipe because the "flood" of T2 items (which would eventually happen anyways as more people reach lvl 60), lowered the price of their T2 item within a few days. Eventually, when there is a solid number of lvl 60s, T2 items will go down further in value as T3 will be the next upgrade and eventually Cryptic introduces higher tiers of gear or specialty gear.
This is a beta. Yes, it is.
Your character will be wiped when it goes live anyways...so a full wipe is not as bad as people seem to think it is.
Granted, I don't think one will help that much; but if it does happen...well, its just like what will happen when the beta closes and live launches:
You will re-level, re-acquire everything...OH:
For those of you buying Zen with cash....you lose everything when it launches. Nice money wasted for no other reason than to "test" the Zen-buying system (which devs can do for free).
with this bug or exploit hurts everybody in the game and who knows how many free accounts they made to do this on and where all the AD went or items they got with the AD
Drakeos Shadowbow - 60 Combat Pathfinder Hunter Ranger (Alt/retired)
Falados - Drow (Mez) Level 60 Trickster Rogue - Offically retired
Drakeos - Drow (Mez) Scourge Warlock/Druid (retired)
Attention!: Your characters will not be wiped when it goes live.
It was confirmed that your ZEN would be wiped, and a lot of rage in this thread is in that area...and proof on no character wipe?
I'm not being rude or anything, but I need proof that an MMO would not wipe its characters on beta...since every MMO does?
LINKS PLEASE FOR PROOF!
Go to the Neverwinter Twitter and find your own proof. Its not my job to do your research. You should know what your talking about before you spew false info like you actually know what your talking about.
Neverwinter Official Twitter Feed:
Neverwinter @NeverwinterGame
@TSRO_Kip No, there will be no character wipe between open beta and live launch.
https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame
No, there will be no character wipe between open beta and live launch.
^ I messed it up, but you are correct; No character wipe, just ZEN wipe.
So to all the people I was wronged into...my bad, didnt scroll down far enough on twitter.
To the "WTF I NEED MY ZEN" - YOU LOSE!
funny considering over twice as many people voted "yes" to the wipe than voted "no"
apparently NOT wiping would cause PWE to lose more players.
try using your brain for once in your life. you might like it.
You can't open the Zen shop and then just wipe out everything people bought.