It's classified as an open beta, they aren't hiding that fact one bit. Yes the zen shop is open, and typically during the alpha and beta periods is when more man hours are required to get a game running smoothly. You try and run a business with no cash flow. Questionable or not, all of the information is available for you, and it is ALWAYS the buyers decision to purchase zen. Whether they want a new mount, or just to support the company no one is being forced to pay a cent.
As far as I know, no one is losing money, no one is losing characters and we don't have any idea what fixes are being implemented. Calm down!
I can't even believe this is at 120+ pages. I found out about the servers, so I went outside and enjoyed my day. There is no point in complaining and speculating over things you have no control over, you'll know when you know; no sooner, no later.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Here's a solution, open a new shard and make the decision to start over optional. Guarantee it's the most popular shard you'll have. Clean slate for those of us that want it.
I want all of my zen refunded and everything on the other shard to be destroyed to balance it out then. I assumed that eventually rates would go down and my intial use of zen to buy diamonds would pay off a little, big mistake. I will not be ripped off by those little pastry faced geeks and their gd exploits ruining the rates and I will not take aloss on zen, I paid money for mine unlike those little ****s.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
Folks, please remember this game is still in beta. This means that when the game goes live, you may have complete character rollback anyway. Hopefully you will not but beta means testing and getting rid of actual bugs such as this one. Not actual play. If people have spent real $$ on this game, I hope that they do not rollback your characters, they should have not allowed real money purchases on a beta version.
A wipe is the only way to go because people who bought Zen will be asking for refunds since people who used the exploit used the Astral Diamond to buy the Zen.
Not everyone buys Zen and not everyone who does exploits games. Honestly We all need a little patience and yes if it goes the wipe I will expect a full refund of Zen that I have received. Its people that forget this is still under Beta and have no patience because they PL or have someone pl them that go the whole wipe I don't play a game to be elite like some 15 yo with no life. I have been playing D&D based games since the days table top was cool. If you dont like beta rules and dont like waiting then pay $50-$60 for a full release and complain about the bugs in that.
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dakxerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
So there will be no wipe as they will loose too much money and customers.
Even rollbacks are going to upset a lot of their player base, especially ones that do not even know what is going on atm.
Rock and a hard place comes to mind.
Agreed. Having the bad luck of playing mostly on weekends, this hurts.
The economy isn't ruined unless this was widespread. I have not heard how many accounts are involved (is it 40%, or just 1 %) If it is just 1%, I would think they can just destroy those accounts and any account they "shared" mail with - as those are the laundered money accounts. If it is closer to 10%, this could be a mess for months. Farmers and gold vendors are nothing new - there are always those trying to make a buck. They are always looking for ways to cheat for profit, and they have years of experience covering their tracks - so they know all the tricks. Fingers crossed this is just a bunch of gold spammers and to be honest, those idiots are in almost every game online and I hope they are banned quickly (if found, that's not always easy either - just ask WoW). The only fix, sell AD for less than the spammers - but my guess is, that would make all AD prices go way up. Yes, rock and hard place indeed....
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xdprophetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Again the dynamic nature of publicly routed IP address spaces in the end user realm is the reason that an IP ban is not feasible. NAT has nothing to do with it. You have no case, you were wrong from the start. However we have lifted you up so that your knuckles are no longer dragging in the dirt and you are now almost making sense, not say "WOW" at the beginning of every post and not calling everyone an idiot.
Idiot. I am now calling you an idiot because you are an idiot. I have been writing networking, proxy, corporate firewall, and enterprise authentication code long before you were likely born. NAT is 95# of the problem. Other 5% is dynamic IP but my guess this game isnt popular enough that computers, that actually could reuse the same dynamic IP address, would all be playing Neverwinter.
Yes! Somebody else gets it! If I could I'd give you a trophy sir for thinking rationally! Considering most of the juveniles posting/spamming/trolling on the downtime well...need we say more? keyword being "juveniles"... Everything will be dealt with within a timely manner, these people are fortunate for the level of response given by the NW staff! I've been watching social media networks since the server went down and they have been spamming out individual responses all day! Cut the guys some slack and let them do their job. We'll find out what course of action happens soon enough...
WOO HOO! some one finely got it right ty somuch! NOW FOR ALL THE 2 YEAR OLD CRY BABYS GO BACK TO UR MOMMYS AND CRY TO THEM HOW UNFAIR IT IS TO U AND THEN GO PLAY HELLO KITTY INLAND ADGENTURES AND LEAVE THE D&D STUFF TO THE ADULTS:)!
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Not everyone buys Zen and not everyone who does exploits games. Honestly We all need a little patience and yes if it goes the wipe I will expect a full refund of Zen that I have received. Its people that forget this is still under Beta and have no patience because they PL or have someone pl them that go the whole wipe I don't play a game to be elite like some 15 yo with no life. I have been playing D&D based games since the days table top was cool. If you dont like beta rules and dont like waiting then pay $50-$60 for a full release and complain about the bugs in that.
People who buy Zen are the people keeping them in a job.
I'd like to thank the developers and the company for the following:
Working on a sunday
Supporting concerns in the gaming community for a free MMO while in beta
Rectifying the problem and developing an action plan
Working in software development I understand how much work it is taking to go through and review/research, update and reload. Thanks for the professionalism and the quick response and updates. It goes a long way.
^Yes! Having to deal with all of this stuff on a long weekend (if you're a Canadian) or any weekend for that matter has gotta suck.
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Even Rollbacks are going to cause a huge amount of problems with regards to people that do not know what is happening and their service department is going to go into meltdown.
One little stuff up happens, (eg. they remove legitimate AD/Zen from non exploiters, by mistake) and things will really hit the fan.
I think people's anger is misplaced here, this is not PerfectWorld's fault, it's the fault of whatever idiot(s) exploited an obvious bug. Something from way back in the day of NWN persistant world gaming;
"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is, report it and make sure so you don't risk a ban"
Simple rule, easily implemented
When the people that have been caught log on to other forums and brag how they only got a 72hr ban and brag about how much real money they made of the exploit.....
"In computer networking, network address translation (NAT) is the process of modifying IP address information in IPv4 headers while in transit across a traffic routing device."
Wow. I guess I am once again right, and you are, hum... Wrong? The router maintains the connection table and rewrites the IP address in the header and checksums. My god you really dont know your OSI layers or technologies do you. Tell me, how many college campus PC's, users, etc share the same public IP? How many mobile devices? How many corporate devices? How many Starbuck and Internet Cafe? Because they are NAT behind public routers. Please, go back to school. Banning by IP is completely impossible.
Uh oh, you started with "wow" again. Maybe you are a Blizzard employee after all. I am sure it took you a mere few seconds to google NAT and come up with a definition. How long it takes for you to understand the definition, well I may very well be in game playing at that time.
As a network engineer of 20 years, I can tell you this. NAT does indeed modify the IP address in the IPV4 header. Modify by no means however equates to re-write. It does exactly what was quoted, it modifies. Do I really need to go any further or are you going to run off to Google to muster more knowledge?
OSI has nothing to do with the conversation, did you Google that as well, or are you now learning that in primary school?
Tell me, how many college campus PC's, users, etc share the same public IP?
Tell me, how is that one of these college campus PC users can receive a letter that they have been downloading copyright protected material? I can tell you, but can you tell me? Scroll up I answered your question already.
Banning by IP is possible, it is absolutely not effective, and NAT has nothing to do with the lack of effectiveness.
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papertripMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
I know I've said it but I'll say it again...
If required, due a bloody wipe or a selective wipe/rollback, just fix it...
And to the players who supposedly exploit it and are blaming it on PWE and Cryptic calling it god knows what (checked the reddit post yeah)...
I think you (these "epic immoral players") guys have no moral integrity, I mean seriously... If it was a little more acceptable you would sell your bodies for cash too darn easily it's just... Ridiculous...
Instead of caring for the game and helping, you do nothing to harm it, claiming it you hate the game or "love it more than Cryptic" well, you know what, if you ain't playing or collaborating please just leave and go play something else, dont ruin for the rest of us... Thank you.
Also, Cryptic, please do fix the major bugs the game has and do try to pay more attention to some bug reports, (some) players and (all, at least I wanna believe so) developers alike want to make this a great game, bloody hell, a great piece of digital gaming art if you can call it that!
People who buy Zen are the people keeping them in a job.
I've spent over $160 on this game so far on things which are now essentially worthless. If they don't do a rollback to fix the economy I'll be pursuing a refund and or chargeback.
From reading their post it seems like they are considering simple bans... I hope they don't think that will solve this mess. I know the people i game with that have spent real money feel the same way as me.
I think there are better ways this could have been handled. If they are planning on fixing the economy, bringing down the servers does absolutely nothing except put a few more hours in the developers wallets.
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milkstashMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Update 5:15 PM Pacific: We have most of the information in-hand, but are waiting on a few final details to determine our plan of action. To clarify one thing I've seen around on Twitter, whatever we ultimately decide to do, a full character wipe will not happen. We're doing everything we can to minimize the impact of this fix, so that it changes what must change, but not much else. Thank you all for your patience, we appreciate it and will have you back in-game as soon as possible.[/color][/b]
If you've been following twitter, and polls on this very forum you'd see that, what, 70% of your playerbase actually want a pwipe to happen? Sometimes you just have to nuke it from orbit. You know, just to be safe
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cho83Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Don't wana say anything smart here coz it will be long and boring to read proly ....
WOO HOO! some one finely got it right ty somuch! NOW FOR ALL THE 2 YEAR OLD CRY BABYS GO BACK TO UR MOMMYS AND CRY TO THEM HOW UNFAIR IT IS TO U AND THEN GO PLAY HELLO KITTY INLAND ADGENTURES AND LEAVE THE D&D STUFF TO THE ADULTS!
Comments
It's classified as an open beta, they aren't hiding that fact one bit. Yes the zen shop is open, and typically during the alpha and beta periods is when more man hours are required to get a game running smoothly. You try and run a business with no cash flow. Questionable or not, all of the information is available for you, and it is ALWAYS the buyers decision to purchase zen. Whether they want a new mount, or just to support the company no one is being forced to pay a cent.
As far as I know, no one is losing money, no one is losing characters and we don't have any idea what fixes are being implemented. Calm down!
I can't even believe this is at 120+ pages. I found out about the servers, so I went outside and enjoyed my day. There is no point in complaining and speculating over things you have no control over, you'll know when you know; no sooner, no later.
I want all of my zen refunded and everything on the other shard to be destroyed to balance it out then. I assumed that eventually rates would go down and my intial use of zen to buy diamonds would pay off a little, big mistake. I will not be ripped off by those little pastry faced geeks and their gd exploits ruining the rates and I will not take aloss on zen, I paid money for mine unlike those little ****s.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
Not everyone buys Zen and not everyone who does exploits games. Honestly We all need a little patience and yes if it goes the wipe I will expect a full refund of Zen that I have received. Its people that forget this is still under Beta and have no patience because they PL or have someone pl them that go the whole wipe I don't play a game to be elite like some 15 yo with no life. I have been playing D&D based games since the days table top was cool. If you dont like beta rules and dont like waiting then pay $50-$60 for a full release and complain about the bugs in that.
Agreed. Having the bad luck of playing mostly on weekends, this hurts.
The economy isn't ruined unless this was widespread. I have not heard how many accounts are involved (is it 40%, or just 1 %) If it is just 1%, I would think they can just destroy those accounts and any account they "shared" mail with - as those are the laundered money accounts. If it is closer to 10%, this could be a mess for months. Farmers and gold vendors are nothing new - there are always those trying to make a buck. They are always looking for ways to cheat for profit, and they have years of experience covering their tracks - so they know all the tricks. Fingers crossed this is just a bunch of gold spammers and to be honest, those idiots are in almost every game online and I hope they are banned quickly (if found, that's not always easy either - just ask WoW). The only fix, sell AD for less than the spammers - but my guess is, that would make all AD prices go way up. Yes, rock and hard place indeed....
Idiot. I am now calling you an idiot because you are an idiot. I have been writing networking, proxy, corporate firewall, and enterprise authentication code long before you were likely born. NAT is 95# of the problem. Other 5% is dynamic IP but my guess this game isnt popular enough that computers, that actually could reuse the same dynamic IP address, would all be playing Neverwinter.
I need to catch up. Its on now.
WOO HOO! some one finely got it right ty somuch! NOW FOR ALL THE 2 YEAR OLD CRY BABYS GO BACK TO UR MOMMYS AND CRY TO THEM HOW UNFAIR IT IS TO U AND THEN GO PLAY HELLO KITTY INLAND ADGENTURES AND LEAVE THE D&D STUFF TO THE ADULTS:)!
People who buy Zen are the people keeping them in a job.
Go to highschool and stop truanting.
^Yes! Having to deal with all of this stuff on a long weekend (if you're a Canadian) or any weekend for that matter has gotta suck.
One little stuff up happens, (eg. they remove legitimate AD/Zen from non exploiters, by mistake) and things will really hit the fan.
When the people that have been caught log on to other forums and brag how they only got a 72hr ban and brag about how much real money they made of the exploit.....
http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/
They can handle it.
"The harder the game, the better."
Bump, because....exactly, nuff said.
I bought zen. I'm also a founder. High School is far behind me.
I would prefer a solution that doesn't involve a wipe.
Uh oh, you started with "wow" again. Maybe you are a Blizzard employee after all. I am sure it took you a mere few seconds to google NAT and come up with a definition. How long it takes for you to understand the definition, well I may very well be in game playing at that time.
As a network engineer of 20 years, I can tell you this. NAT does indeed modify the IP address in the IPV4 header. Modify by no means however equates to re-write. It does exactly what was quoted, it modifies. Do I really need to go any further or are you going to run off to Google to muster more knowledge?
OSI has nothing to do with the conversation, did you Google that as well, or are you now learning that in primary school?
Tell me, how is that one of these college campus PC users can receive a letter that they have been downloading copyright protected material? I can tell you, but can you tell me? Scroll up I answered your question already.
Banning by IP is possible, it is absolutely not effective, and NAT has nothing to do with the lack of effectiveness.
Trying to catch up on this thread has delayed my drinking, you might have a chance if you hurry.
If required, due a bloody wipe or a selective wipe/rollback, just fix it...
And to the players who supposedly exploit it and are blaming it on PWE and Cryptic calling it god knows what (checked the reddit post yeah)...
I think you (these "epic immoral players") guys have no moral integrity, I mean seriously... If it was a little more acceptable you would sell your bodies for cash too darn easily it's just... Ridiculous...
Instead of caring for the game and helping, you do nothing to harm it, claiming it you hate the game or "love it more than Cryptic" well, you know what, if you ain't playing or collaborating please just leave and go play something else, dont ruin for the rest of us... Thank you.
Also, Cryptic, please do fix the major bugs the game has and do try to pay more attention to some bug reports, (some) players and (all, at least I wanna believe so) developers alike want to make this a great game, bloody hell, a great piece of digital gaming art if you can call it that!
They can handle it.
"The harder the game, the better."
I've spent over $160 on this game so far on things which are now essentially worthless. If they don't do a rollback to fix the economy I'll be pursuing a refund and or chargeback.
From reading their post it seems like they are considering simple bans... I hope they don't think that will solve this mess. I know the people i game with that have spent real money feel the same way as me.
Okay... how about this... My PayPal account is in Beta. So there...
I value a warm dead goldfish at 5 taco's. Offer accepted and lawsuit withdrawn, all backtraces have been put on hold until this goldfish is received.
If you've been following twitter, and polls on this very forum you'd see that, what, 70% of your playerbase actually want a pwipe to happen? Sometimes you just have to nuke it from orbit. You know, just to be safe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI