All they need to do is query their Database with any Bid that is a negative # and it populates the result set with all the account names and their unique ID's. (If it's setup that way) From that point on it's going to be manual work to do all the fixing.
It's actually easy to find the people who did it because it's nothing random. I actually feel sorry for people who gave in to greed rofl.
Is the game dead? If they fix it properly the game continues as it never happened. The AH and gateway got taken down as they are fixing it and know the impact of the exploit.
It doesn't matter at all if they ban exploiters or not we are talking about the economy here, the currency that was coppied already flown on the market and the ah, hundreds of items were bought and sold. Now if you delete just part of it someone will simply lose a lot while other will get rich (those who had items to sell for instance).
It's no the ma
0
laserfan367Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
It's a bit silly to see how many people are calling for a complete server wipe. Do you really think that's any way to fix a problem? You're not even fixing anything, you're just wiping everybody's progress and pretending nothing happened. A game is far better off with a screwed up economy that will recover over time (it is split out over several servers so it won't even take that long to recover), as opposed to wiping the game, starting over and scratching your head when you realize that a large portion of your playerbase left the game because the many hours they put into the game were effectively nulled because of something somebody else did.
Imagine you and 999 other people had to take a test that takes a week to complete.
Later it turns out that 10 people cheated on the test.
Do you expect them to tell 990 people who did the test that they'll have to do it again, even though they know who the 10 cheaters were?
They can track who abused this method, the economy will restore itself relatively quickly, there's no reason to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a large portion of your community by undoing the work they put into the game in the past few weeks.
They could wipe AD and zen from everyone and refund Zen for any cash purchases and AD for any founders. Then delete any purple items not bound. That way people keep most of their progression and it would stabilise the economy.
This is actually the best idea I have seen yet, since it's not a rollback in terms of progression or level, but it will start the economy from ground zero.
Or something along those lines. The problem is for those of us into crafting. I got lucky on the Profession Resources I bought. But there a definitely things I bought that were a waste.
But I do believe that something aggressive needs to be done. But no matter what they do someone is going to be unhappy.
yeah, that seems like something that has been going on for more than 12 hours, just when the "secret" was no more... the fiasco...
Its sunday PWE works under minimal personel during weekends, as they said themselves... so nothing will be done till tomorrow at least, but it would be nice if the forum mods, at least, keep us posted about something!
It doesn't matter at all if they ban exploiters or not we are talking about the economy here, the currency that was coppied already flown on the market and the ah, hundreds of items were bought and sold. Now if you delete just part of it someone will simply lose a lot while other will get rich (those who had items to sell for instance).
It's no the ma
You obviously don't get it. This isn't going to be fixed in just 1 day this is going to be a long process in fixing while the game still continues to go.
If they ban the people they will stop transactions from happening. Closing down the AH will stop AD being used to transfer.
They are freezing transactions right now and going through accounts already. Don't talk if you have no clue about anything.
What they are doing right now is what I would do in order to fix what needs to be fixed.
All you people asking for rollbacks instead of a wipe arent realizing that this exploit has been going on since the beginning of the game. The only option is a wipe.
even if/when they fix this exploit, the real problem with the economy is the way the base game is designed.
In order to fix any problem you have to go to the source. All games have exploiters and people who break rules to gain unfair advantages. Some games though have the problems more so than others.
The games that have huge issues with gold sellers and exploiters are ones where the base economy of rewards encourages bad behavior. Neverwinter is one of those games.
The fact that epic dungeon gear (T2) is BOE and can be sold gives exploiters and cheaters the basis for providing themselves and others means to items they wouldn't otherwise have. Something for nothing as it goes.
Simply make all of the epic drops per person in dungeons and make them BOP.
Doing this will SEVERELY cut down the economy exploits and make the game more fair for everyone.
They do this or lose your dedicated player base.
Making all items from dungeons bound on equip would make this game have like 0 economy, BOUND ON EQUIP IS already false mechanic copied form one game to another that really fix nothing in terms of item inflation by artifically ruining the economy. This is easy people won't buy the items as much because the are usless after equip unless you plan to use them all the time which almoust never happen. Others won't use the item they have found because it cannot be sold after being used. For casuals it is probably nice to get FREE ITEMS every time the do the dungoen but economy wise it would be as much the same as giving everybody FREE AD like todays exploit did.
You obviously don't get it. This isn't going to be fixed in just 1 day this is going to be a long process in fixing while the game still continues to go.
If they ban the people they will stop transactions from happening. Closing down the AH will stop AD being used to transfer.
They are freezing transactions right now and going through accounts already. Don't talk if you have no clue about anything.
What they are doing right now is what I would do in order to fix what needs to be fixed.
Yes long process, the AD that was copied man is stored on a lot of accounts it's already in hands of people that didn't exploit at all because AH was open for all the time. Now whatever you do it won't fix it... The people that start the game from point after now will simply have hard time affording single item by playing 2 weeks so don't joke because you obviously don't realize that damage was done. NO game ever have their economy repairded after such disaster.
"They are freezing transactions right now and going through accounts already. Don't talk if you have no clue about anything."
If they do that this simply proves they have no idea about how smart cheaters are. How you want to freeze 100000000000000000000000000000000000 AD that on the thousands of account of either cheaters or legit people that simply sold their stuff on AH? Magic? Only way is to rollback all the transactions or items, banning the people or account that have already injected this AD won't repair the economy at all kid. It was already used people bought items with it gave them to friends sold them on auction house etc. It is already done and you won't fix it by banning those who did it, now if you delete just those stuff that was copied it still won't do the job because legit people already use it. Meaning they will simply lose as much as those who ever paid a penny for this game, I mean they had the fun with it but it's now all worth a bit less.
0
mortox911Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Problem is i first saw a transaction with negative values a week ago and reported it even. So what will 24h rollback help?
You're right that this has probably been going on for some time, but the fact is that it became WIDESPREAD today.
All they need to do is a ~24-36 hour rollback, and then they can cleanup a lot of the original exploiters case by case. They should also look into old AH logs for anything that sold in the ~5-7+ million AD range and look into if it was a legit exchange or just an early exploiter laundering their ill-gotten gains.
0
kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited May 2013
I have only one question to the incompetent people in charge: How are you going to fix this mess ?
I have invested RL cash in this game because I find certain aspects fun. Now everything is worthless because the economy is ruined forever. Is there any incentive to keep playing and trusting this company ?
0
nova1690Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think an item wipe and zen reset is the best idea at this point. (And, ideally, some level-appropriate starter gear)
It stinks, but the economy is a burning wreck right now.
I totally hate to agree with you, but I do.
The economy is ruined and will be for a long time, either a wipe or some kind of rollback is the only way to properly fix things that I can see.
I'd love to hear some official statement on this though, see what's happening at Cryptic and PWE.
0
jezathforumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well I can speak for my 100 player all active guild and we are non exploiters who now are being adversly affected by this, if the economy iosent sorted soon We are taking our guild to another game..
"There are two things that drive technology forward in a huge leap in this world, one is war and one is business..."-- Timothy Wade 2012
"If you wish to join a guild, that will be running a guild foundry RP campaign then come take a look at [BLOOD]"
All you people asking for rollbacks instead of a wipe arent realizing that this exploit has been going on since the beginning of the game. The only option is a wipe.
Who cares? It wasn't a problem until a day ago when it got out.
0
dridnoc1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
It doesn't matter at all if they ban exploiters or not we are talking about the economy here, the currency that was coppied already flown on the market and the ah, hundreds of items were bought and sold. Now if you delete just part of it someone will simply lose a lot while other will get rich (those who had items to sell for instance).
It's no the ma
All Cryptic has to do is Fix the Exploit, BAN Exploiters and Do a roll back to when it started. That takes care of the Entire Issue. Problem solved!!!
They can track who abused this method, the economy will restore itself relatively quickly, there's no reason to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a large portion of your community by undoing the work they put into the game in the past few weeks.
I don't see the economy restoring quickly. There is too much AD in the system and you can't legitimately earn it that fast.
All you people asking for rollbacks instead of a wipe arent realizing that this exploit has been going on since the beginning of the game. The only option is a wipe.
You know it's REALLY easy to find the people who did this right? If they have logging (which they have to an extent) you can see all transactions in a query that were made since the game started with a negative bid and then manually trace everything back.
It's so time consuming if anything and if they do it this way they are fixing it correctly but slowly.
I wonder how their DB is structured and have a way to easily revert transactions made.
The economy is ruined and will be for a long time, either a wipe or some kind of rollback is the only way to properly fix things that I can see.
I'd love to hear some official statement on this though, see what's happening at Cryptic and PWE.
At this point I would just write off the economy and work on class balance. I would love to just ignore the AH and play epic dungeons with friends, if epic bosses were less horse**** add fests and our GWF buddy wasn't a pity invite.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
0
unnas20Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
the negative AD AH exploit had been out for over a week. there is no way they can correct all those previous transactions. sad to say this, but the economy is screwed forever. you would of thought this company learned from the D3 AH.
0
dridnoc1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Who cares? It wasn't a problem until a day ago when it got out.
Totally agree. If it had been going on since Server open, It still was not a problem, Until it went public. So technically it would still solve the issue.
0
nova1690Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's a bit silly to see how many people are calling for a complete server wipe. Do you really think that's any way to fix a problem? You're not even fixing anything, you're just wiping everybody's progress and pretending nothing happened. A game is far better off with a screwed up economy that will recover over time (it is split out over several servers so it won't even take that long to recover), as opposed to wiping the game, starting over and scratching your head when you realize that a large portion of your playerbase left the game because the many hours they put into the game were effectively nulled because of something somebody else did.
Imagine you and 999 other people had to take a test that takes a week to complete.
Later it turns out that 10 people cheated on the test.
Do you expect them to tell 990 people who did the test that they'll have to do it again, even though they know who the 10 cheaters were?
They can track who abused this method, the economy will restore itself relatively quickly, there's no reason to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a large portion of your community by undoing the work they put into the game in the past few weeks.
Your cheater metaphor doesn't really hold water as the "cheaters" would have traded/given items and AD all over the place to many different people, friends, people in their guild, other accounts and maybe even random people.
So these 10 cheaters + many of their friends and friends of friends..and so on. Anyone that had profited in a major way from this exploit whether knowingly or unknowingly.
0
jlasherasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Please PW stop the open beta, fix you all game exploits, wipe all data, and give back the zen or money, and NEXT, open you game .
This exploits broken the all economy game and this can't be fixed ban the people, because the exploiters moved the money between players, buying and selling items/ad/zen.
You know it's REALLY easy to find the people who did this right? If they have logging (which they have to an extent) you can see all transactions in a query that were made since the game started with a negative bid and then manually trace everything back.
It's so time consuming if anything and if they do it this way they are fixing it correctly but slowly.
I wonder how their DB is structured and have a way to easily revert transactions made.
I imagine it wouldn't be hard to track the players that exploited this method of acquiring AD. The simple fix is ban all of them, they certainly deserve it. The economy will quickly sort itself out.
They just need to leave the AH/exchange down until a proper hotfix is applied.
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
Your cheater metaphor doesn't really hold water as the "cheaters" would have traded/given items and AD all over the place to many different people, friends, people in their guild, other accounts and maybe even random people.
So these 10 cheaters + many of their friends and friends of friends..and so on. Anyone that had profited in a major way from this exploit whether knowingly or unknowingly.
It is a bad analogy, but I think he is right. There are other options to fix the game and economy than a wipe. A small rollback might be needed though. As bad as all this seems, it really isn't game ending unless we let it be. I enjoy the game and will continue to play it either way until I no longer enjoy it.
the game is beta. Bugs and exploits like that will be fixed. However, it was obvious from day 1 that the game whould be transformed to a huge stock exchange. It is sad that the game developers spend more time chasing exploiters than actually progressing the game which imo needs alot of work yet: more dungeons, more raids, more pvp areas, more armors etc. It is even saddest that the only true losers are the true gamers who just wish to come home and play a game they like. The biggest losers are those who actually spent money for the game. If the developers wish to change the game they should seriously consider how they want their economy run. ADs or Zens? I find ridiculus the amount needed to buy a mount or to open an extra slot for your character. I mean in order to get all character / companion/ bank,bag slots u need a ridiculus amount of zen. That is the developers fault (at least imo). They set the example: if they are greedy, why not the players? I dont want to spend a small fortune to make my character respectable. If they wish to fix the problem quick , its easy. Lower the price of zen in perfect world so that players can actually buy, or lower the prices of zen needed to buy stuff. It wont prevent every one but i have to remind that the majority of the players are gamers not exploiters, and they usually follow what others do, especially the bad players. Do i have to remind you the afkrs??its the first game EVER that players actually where shouting for AFK group!!!!!!!and its not yet over, they now renamed it to losing PVP or farming PVP. There are solutions for everything. I am not going to bother explaining the developers how to do the job they are getting paid to do (from my money). I am a gamer and i wish to see a decent game. They dont care about me as an individual as there are thousand in line w8ing to play. But i have to remind the developers that nowdays the gaming community and collectivity outpasses any single game no matter how good it is and once the word for a better game is passed or the word that this game is broken, then all of em will lose their job and try ask where they went wrong.
Comments
It doesn't matter at all if they ban exploiters or not we are talking about the economy here, the currency that was coppied already flown on the market and the ah, hundreds of items were bought and sold. Now if you delete just part of it someone will simply lose a lot while other will get rich (those who had items to sell for instance).
It's no the ma
Problem is i first saw a transaction with negative values a week ago and reported it even. So what will 24h rollback help?
It stinks, but the economy is a burning wreck right now.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It's a ****ing joke that they don't notice this, they have the tools to track exactly how AD is added to the market.
Imagine you and 999 other people had to take a test that takes a week to complete.
Later it turns out that 10 people cheated on the test.
Do you expect them to tell 990 people who did the test that they'll have to do it again, even though they know who the 10 cheaters were?
They can track who abused this method, the economy will restore itself relatively quickly, there's no reason to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a large portion of your community by undoing the work they put into the game in the past few weeks.
Or something along those lines. The problem is for those of us into crafting. I got lucky on the Profession Resources I bought. But there a definitely things I bought that were a waste.
But I do believe that something aggressive needs to be done. But no matter what they do someone is going to be unhappy.
Its sunday PWE works under minimal personel during weekends, as they said themselves... so nothing will be done till tomorrow at least, but it would be nice if the forum mods, at least, keep us posted about something!
You obviously don't get it. This isn't going to be fixed in just 1 day this is going to be a long process in fixing while the game still continues to go.
If they ban the people they will stop transactions from happening. Closing down the AH will stop AD being used to transfer.
They are freezing transactions right now and going through accounts already. Don't talk if you have no clue about anything.
What they are doing right now is what I would do in order to fix what needs to be fixed.
Making all items from dungeons bound on equip would make this game have like 0 economy, BOUND ON EQUIP IS already false mechanic copied form one game to another that really fix nothing in terms of item inflation by artifically ruining the economy. This is easy people won't buy the items as much because the are usless after equip unless you plan to use them all the time which almoust never happen. Others won't use the item they have found because it cannot be sold after being used. For casuals it is probably nice to get FREE ITEMS every time the do the dungoen but economy wise it would be as much the same as giving everybody FREE AD like todays exploit did.
Yes long process, the AD that was copied man is stored on a lot of accounts it's already in hands of people that didn't exploit at all because AH was open for all the time. Now whatever you do it won't fix it... The people that start the game from point after now will simply have hard time affording single item by playing 2 weeks so don't joke because you obviously don't realize that damage was done. NO game ever have their economy repairded after such disaster.
"They are freezing transactions right now and going through accounts already. Don't talk if you have no clue about anything."
If they do that this simply proves they have no idea about how smart cheaters are. How you want to freeze 100000000000000000000000000000000000 AD that on the thousands of account of either cheaters or legit people that simply sold their stuff on AH? Magic? Only way is to rollback all the transactions or items, banning the people or account that have already injected this AD won't repair the economy at all kid. It was already used people bought items with it gave them to friends sold them on auction house etc. It is already done and you won't fix it by banning those who did it, now if you delete just those stuff that was copied it still won't do the job because legit people already use it. Meaning they will simply lose as much as those who ever paid a penny for this game, I mean they had the fun with it but it's now all worth a bit less.
You're right that this has probably been going on for some time, but the fact is that it became WIDESPREAD today.
All they need to do is a ~24-36 hour rollback, and then they can cleanup a lot of the original exploiters case by case. They should also look into old AH logs for anything that sold in the ~5-7+ million AD range and look into if it was a legit exchange or just an early exploiter laundering their ill-gotten gains.
I have invested RL cash in this game because I find certain aspects fun. Now everything is worthless because the economy is ruined forever. Is there any incentive to keep playing and trusting this company ?
I totally hate to agree with you, but I do.
The economy is ruined and will be for a long time, either a wipe or some kind of rollback is the only way to properly fix things that I can see.
I'd love to hear some official statement on this though, see what's happening at Cryptic and PWE.
"There are two things that drive technology forward in a huge leap in this world, one is war and one is business..."-- Timothy Wade 2012
"If you wish to join a guild, that will be running a guild foundry RP campaign then come take a look at [BLOOD]"
back to MMORPG.com to find something to play...
Who cares? It wasn't a problem until a day ago when it got out.
I don't see the economy restoring quickly. There is too much AD in the system and you can't legitimately earn it that fast.
You know it's REALLY easy to find the people who did this right? If they have logging (which they have to an extent) you can see all transactions in a query that were made since the game started with a negative bid and then manually trace everything back.
It's so time consuming if anything and if they do it this way they are fixing it correctly but slowly.
I wonder how their DB is structured and have a way to easily revert transactions made.
Only a wipe would fix it now...
At this point I would just write off the economy and work on class balance. I would love to just ignore the AH and play epic dungeons with friends, if epic bosses were less horse**** add fests and our GWF buddy wasn't a pity invite.
Totally agree. If it had been going on since Server open, It still was not a problem, Until it went public. So technically it would still solve the issue.
Your cheater metaphor doesn't really hold water as the "cheaters" would have traded/given items and AD all over the place to many different people, friends, people in their guild, other accounts and maybe even random people.
So these 10 cheaters + many of their friends and friends of friends..and so on. Anyone that had profited in a major way from this exploit whether knowingly or unknowingly.
This exploits broken the all economy game and this can't be fixed ban the people, because the exploiters moved the money between players, buying and selling items/ad/zen.
I imagine it wouldn't be hard to track the players that exploited this method of acquiring AD. The simple fix is ban all of them, they certainly deserve it. The economy will quickly sort itself out.
They just need to leave the AH/exchange down until a proper hotfix is applied.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
It is a bad analogy, but I think he is right. There are other options to fix the game and economy than a wipe. A small rollback might be needed though. As bad as all this seems, it really isn't game ending unless we let it be. I enjoy the game and will continue to play it either way until I no longer enjoy it.