Still waiting for a video or even screen shots. If they've been posted, my apologies I must have missed them.
I'm skeptical aswell, i optimized my build for dps and it falls short. Wicked strike WMS seems weak i don't understand i need a youtube vid of the deeps
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bigt983Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
Switched to this build last night and have been consistently doing much better damage than I was as destroyer. Even when skipping most of the trash the damage keeps up. Its still nowhere near what TR can do single target for just individual boss burn but for overall damage you can put up the numbers in T2
I know it's being said that Half-Orc is the best for this build, but how do Tieflings fair?
I mean 5% more damage when the target is below 50% HP seems better than 5% crit severity - the Tief buff will have a 50% up keep, while 5% severity will be dependent on crit rate so you would need 50% crit to be on par (On paper that is).
Also the 5% from the Tief will still increase crit damage, not to mention the debuff which I know it's only something minimal.
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herosixtyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
I know it's being said that Half-Orc is the best for this build, but how do Tieflings fair?
I mean 5% more damage when the target is below 50% HP seems better than 5% crit severity - the Tief buff will have a 50% up keep, while 5% severity will be dependent on crit rate so you would need 50% crit to be on par (On paper that is).
Also the 5% from the Tief will still increase crit damage, not to mention the debuff which I know it's only something minimal.
It is not hard to get 50% crit with feats and auras. Tiefling buff requires the mob to be at 50% health, so we can summize that orc will do twice as much dmg (increse) from the race traits. i think.
safe to safe it won't matter much.
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tengiieMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
Hey, what armor and weapon enhancements do you use?
I just wanted to tell you thank you very much for posting this. I was able to salvage my young warrior before it became too late. I'll see you around the shard.
For my 3rd encounter I chose replenishing strike early on and later used flourish for those 1v1 encounters. sometimes for special enemies i will double up and use both to help the single target dps. Usually while im soloing.
Thanks again
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone has a Plan until they get Punched in the Mouth. I am a Fighter.. I punch first. - Zweisocki
Well I'm not at 60 yet on my GWF or even 40 (quite, I was further until the rollback). But I've been using this build the whole time. Those first 16 odd levels without a companion are painful, but after that it actually works pretty well for leveling and even bosses fall to me in short order. Eventually I know the mobs will kill or outlevel the healing my companion can do and things will probably change.
If people are interested I can post some pictures of the power tree and feats from my version of this build.
Well I'm not at 60 yet on my GWF or even 40 (quite, I was further until the rollback). But I've been using this build the whole time. Those first 16 odd levels without a companion are painful, but after that it actually works pretty well for leveling and even bosses fall to meet in short order. Eventually I know the mobs will kill or outlevel the healing my companion can do.
If people are interested I can post some pictures of the power tree and feats from my version of this build.
Awesome shad there are some spots along the levelling journey that are tough for all GWF from what I've seen and heard; regardless of build. I am glad to hear that it's working adequately for you so far.
The build is a framework of my thoughts and experiences with the class. Feel free to adjust things to fit your play style and I'd be really happy to hear any changes you make along the way and how they do or don't work.
I'm skeptical aswell, i optimized my build for dps and it falls short. Wicked strike WMS seems weak i don't understand i need a youtube vid of the deeps
Hey hero, after my vacation I am going to try making my first video; lol it's probably going to suck. Also see if I can do myself or get some help with cleaning up the guide some.
Please know though that this guide is presented only as a way to play the GWF class. I still believe destroyer is a good spec while sentinel I have never played and I've heard from others is behind both specs. This spec def puts out solid aoe damage. I do look forward to putting a video together, not so much as proof this build is viable but more so to show others how to work it optimally.
This build seems perfect for me, I love AoE damage and this build seems to capitilize on that - going to try this build from level 1. Thank you for the time and effort you put into the guide. =D
If people are interested I can post some pictures of the power tree and feats from my version of this build.
Yep feel free, but also pics of the gear plz.
English is not my first language.
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slywashereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Hey Extinction! I've been using this build as many others from lvl 1. Just want to say that the annoying parts are pre 16, Healer companion all the way and I've had no problems so far, though the mobs from Pirate land are a pain. After 36 I've felt the strength of the class and I've only been out dps'd 2 times by a friend who is a TR same lvl by 20k dmg both time ( Idris). I'm currently 56 and have come into some zen by friendly little brother.. I've read a lot of good things about the stone and the extra stats it gives, but I read that you use the cat. For starters I can't find the cat in the zen market, is it a founder thing? Have you tried the stone/ recommend it?
I'd like to add that as you mentioned previously, it really isn't for everyone. You have to want to jump in and take a bunch of dmg, get that determination up and then aoe the heck out of everything coming dangerously close to dying and berserking it up. It's a LOT of fun but it does get a little tough when you are 1v1 against a boss.. takes a while to get him but since most bosses have summon add skills, it makes for fast-ish killing, but no where near as fast as a TR.
Thanks for this build ,it's the one that made the most sense out of the other ones that are listed, and really hope you can add pics of gear as you upgrade it/powers/feats cuz it makes it easier to understand to a new player.
Hey Extinction! I've been using this build as many others from lvl 1. Just want to say that the annoying parts are pre 16, Healer companion all the way and I've had no problems so far, though the mobs from Pirate land are a pain. After 36 I've felt the strength of the class and I've only been out dps'd 2 times by a friend who is a TR same lvl by 20k dmg both time ( Idris). I'm currently 56 and have come into some zen by friendly little brother.. I've read a lot of good things about the stone and the extra stats it gives, but I read that you use the cat. For starters I can't find the cat in the zen market, is it a founder thing? Have you tried the stone/ recommend it?
I'd like to add that as you mentioned previously, it really isn't for everyone. You have to want to jump in and take a bunch of dmg, get that determination up and then aoe the heck out of everything coming dangerously close to dying and berserking it up. It's a LOT of fun but it does get a little tough when you are 1v1 against a boss.. takes a while to get him but since most bosses have summon add skills, it makes for fast-ish killing, but no where near as fast as a TR.
Thanks for this build ,it's the one that made the most sense out of the other ones that are listed, and really hope you can add pics of gear as you upgrade it/powers/feats cuz it makes it easier to understand to a new player.
Hey Sly, great post. Thanks for sharing. The cat comes from the companion vendor in protectors enclave. I'm pretty sure that he's not in the zen store. As for the cat and the stone and which is better i cannot say as I have only ever used my cat which has served me well. I am sure the stone is very good as well, but at the time the cat was the best available so it has been what I use.
Adding some pics and some video is planned when I get back from vacation, I look forward to getting that information added to make the guide more thorough and easier to follow.
5/5 bleed from destroyer - your capstone increases your power 50% at full stacks. This bleeds enemies you crit based of your power. Nothing else to say. As a crit focused build this feat is awesome. When you're wicked striking through guys with the debuff from WMS rolling and unstoppable up while shredding their defences and bleeding them with every crit you are putting out major damage.
Not really sure if you have other viable options, but this feat appears to be pretty bad.
1. Bleeds don't stack, so if you crit something more often the once every 5 seconds it's being wasted, probably more effective with a low crit rate.
2. They don't roll, the bleed will end 5 seconds after you last crit even if you crit 3 times in a row before.
3. They aren't affected by anything that reduces NPC mitigation (that I could test anyway), they ALWAYS tick for a fixed amount of damage. WMS debuff definitely doesn't so anything for the bleeds.
I can't test the Instigator capstone power bonus, but considering how badly the bleeds are coded you may want to double check that the bleeds actually increase when you have a 5 stack. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take it into account.
Well it took some work to get them uploaded, but here are the pictures from my build... You can still see the holes as I have to level up more, but it gives you an idea of what it looks like. Also my gear is basically all green, so no point really looking at it, though I do grab power, crit, and when possible recovery (with some regen thrown in).
Not really sure if you have other viable options, but this feat appears to be pretty bad.
1. Bleeds don't stack, so if you crit something more often the once every 5 seconds it's being wasted, probably more effective with a low crit rate.
2. They don't roll, the bleed will end 5 seconds after you last crit even if you crit 3 times in a row before.
3. They aren't affected by anything that reduces NPC mitigation (that I could test anyway), they ALWAYS tick for a fixed amount of damage. WMS debuff definitely doesn't so anything for the bleeds.
I can't test the Instigator capstone power bonus, but considering how badly the bleeds are coded you may want to double check that the bleeds actually increase when you have a 5 stack. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take it into account.
? You putting down bleeds without even testing? It only takes maybe 30 seconds. The bleeds increase in damage when they are buffed from instigator. I run a parser but i guess your none testing proves its bad.
? You putting down bleeds without even testing? It only takes maybe 30 seconds. The bleeds increase in damage when they are buffed from instigator. I run a parser but I guess your none testing proves its bad.
Points 1, 2 and 3 are tested. I never tested the capstone because respeccing is not free and I don't have the spare AD. I posed it as a possibility considering how bad the rest of the coding is. All you had to do was say "yes I tested it with the capstone and the bleeds do work with it". Hey, it's awesome that they got at least 1 thing coded correctly.
Instead you go all snarky and rude. I also run ACT so GTFO with your arrogance and try and be useful instead.
So TY for testing the capstone and checking it works, the rest of your post can go fly.
Thanks for the feedback regarding the bleeds guys. I've seen act parses with low crit showing about 8% of total damage done. I'm not sure what act says of bleeds in a live run but if it is anywhere near that amount I would say its a pretty decent investment of 5 points. Especially considering the others.
Not really sure if you have other viable options, but this feat appears to be pretty bad.
1. Bleeds don't stack, so if you crit something more often the once every 5 seconds it's being wasted, probably more effective with a low crit rate.
2. They don't roll, the bleed will end 5 seconds after you last crit even if you crit 3 times in a row before.
3. They aren't affected by anything that reduces NPC mitigation (that I could test anyway), they ALWAYS tick for a fixed amount of damage. WMS debuff definitely doesn't so anything for the bleeds.
I can't test the Instigator capstone power bonus, but considering how badly the bleeds are coded you may want to double check that the bleeds actually increase when you have a 5 stack. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take it into account.
Thanks for the feedback Burn. One thing I wanted to point out with crit. I see what you are saying with regards to high crit potentially wasting bleeds if an enemy is bleeding and gets crited again. Crits serve a couple more purposes as well though. The next crit even if the bleed doesn't get fully utilized does shred another stack of armour helping everyone in the party do damage. The other thing it does is of course do more damage then it otherwise would have.
It would be ideal if the bleeds stacked up or at least refreshed though. Not sure why they don't, doesn't seem like the devs dealt with deep gash correctly if they neither stack nor refresh.
Well it took some work to get them uploaded, but here are the pictures from my build... You can still see the holes as I have to level up more, but it gives you an idea of what it looks like. Also my gear is basically all green, so no point really looking at it, though I do grab power, crit, and when possible recovery (with some regen thrown in).
Powers:
Feats:
That's money man, I am going to do up the complete tree's after my vacation. I might even PM you if I can't figure out how to do it correctly.
Sorry, I was interested in the Combat advantage option, combined with the stone of allure... I presume you having the stone of allure summoned won't give you Combat Advantage?
I'm looking at that tier 2 ability in the initiator tree. Currently running Destroyer, but trying to decide if I want to 5/5 the two, or run through initiator 10pts...
The one thing that I am worried about, is I am constantly getting hammered by mobs. Should I stick to Destroyer because of this or get a better tank?
Since GWF is an 'off tank' class, you will always get hammered by add's. Always. No way around it.
As for the bleed information, I was told it refreshes off each crit and does it's paltry damage as an add-on per crit. Don't know if this is true or not, but I'm trying it out on my Destroyer build instead of the debuff stacks from Swords. I haven't noticed a huge difference, but one thing I have noticed is that the extra crit damage from the debuff seemed to be a far, far higher amount of damage than the bleed could ever hope to be. Could be wrong here, but I was critting for roughly 1500 on WMS after the debuff got rolling, whereas now I never really crit for higher than maybe 1200 or so. It might just be a build difference since I run mostly destroyer, but it's something to consider. Especially when you're already relying on fast crit attacks with your instigator build. It's probably less noticeable for you though, since Destroyer relies a little more on Encounters and 'big crits' to do DPS which is exactly the situation where a debuff would pull ahead in effectiveness.
This makes me really wonder exactly why the hell it is that something in the Destroyer tree is far more useful to another feat tree, since on paper and in play it seems that the Swords debuff is a far better option. Getting both Deep Gash and Swords is of course possible, but frankly you could get the 25% power add on for slam and the swords debuff and probably be in better shape than using Deep Gash. After all, it's harder to take armor debuffs into consideration in a parse than a bleed. Especially on dummies.
That being said there are two important things to consider with Deep Gash. Firstly, in the Destroyer tree you get a feat that up's your Power by 25% when slam is active. This does in fact change the damage of your bleed to the new, higher Power value.
There is another feat, the cap stone in Instigator, which gives you a base 50% increase in power with maximum stacks. I can only imagine that changes the bleed damage in the same way.
This might, in fact, give Deep Gash a small advantage on builds such as this. Couldn't say for sure without parsing, but there are things you can do to buff the damage on Deep Gash along with the rest of your attacks too. It is not always a flat number.
I'd be more interested to find out how the bleeds over-write one another, as you can't stop yourself from overwriting your power buffed higher damage bleed with a lower power, less buffed version. Maybe it takes the stronger effect into consideration, but considering all the other little glitches and bugs that plague the GWF I seriously doubt that it does.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
That's money man, I am going to do up the complete tree's after my vacation. I might even PM you if I can't figure out how to do it correctly.
Sure, feel free. I've been tempted to make a short movie even since I'm running fraps, but I don't have anything to compress the raw video with anymore and uploading it raw would take ages.
Comments
I'm skeptical aswell, i optimized my build for dps and it falls short. Wicked strike WMS seems weak i don't understand i need a youtube vid of the deeps
I mean 5% more damage when the target is below 50% HP seems better than 5% crit severity - the Tief buff will have a 50% up keep, while 5% severity will be dependent on crit rate so you would need 50% crit to be on par (On paper that is).
Also the 5% from the Tief will still increase crit damage, not to mention the debuff which I know it's only something minimal.
safe to safe it won't matter much.
Extinction - GWF
If the game still exists by then ^^ not looking likely :P.
For my 3rd encounter I chose replenishing strike early on and later used flourish for those 1v1 encounters. sometimes for special enemies i will double up and use both to help the single target dps. Usually while im soloing.
Thanks again
Everyone has a Plan until they get Punched in the Mouth. I am a Fighter.. I punch first. - Zweisocki
Wicked Strikes because 5% more damage per target hit, lots of attacks, and cancels with another debuff at-will that add's to the damage.
In a nut shell anyway.
If people are interested I can post some pictures of the power tree and feats from my version of this build.
Awesome shad there are some spots along the levelling journey that are tough for all GWF from what I've seen and heard; regardless of build. I am glad to hear that it's working adequately for you so far.
The build is a framework of my thoughts and experiences with the class. Feel free to adjust things to fit your play style and I'd be really happy to hear any changes you make along the way and how they do or don't work.
Extinction - GWF
Hey hero, after my vacation I am going to try making my first video; lol it's probably going to suck. Also see if I can do myself or get some help with cleaning up the guide some.
Please know though that this guide is presented only as a way to play the GWF class. I still believe destroyer is a good spec while sentinel I have never played and I've heard from others is behind both specs. This spec def puts out solid aoe damage. I do look forward to putting a video together, not so much as proof this build is viable but more so to show others how to work it optimally.
Extinction - GWF
Yep feel free, but also pics of the gear plz.
I'd like to add that as you mentioned previously, it really isn't for everyone. You have to want to jump in and take a bunch of dmg, get that determination up and then aoe the heck out of everything coming dangerously close to dying and berserking it up. It's a LOT of fun but it does get a little tough when you are 1v1 against a boss.. takes a while to get him but since most bosses have summon add skills, it makes for fast-ish killing, but no where near as fast as a TR.
Thanks for this build ,it's the one that made the most sense out of the other ones that are listed, and really hope you can add pics of gear as you upgrade it/powers/feats cuz it makes it easier to understand to a new player.
Hey Sly, great post. Thanks for sharing. The cat comes from the companion vendor in protectors enclave. I'm pretty sure that he's not in the zen store. As for the cat and the stone and which is better i cannot say as I have only ever used my cat which has served me well. I am sure the stone is very good as well, but at the time the cat was the best available so it has been what I use.
Adding some pics and some video is planned when I get back from vacation, I look forward to getting that information added to make the guide more thorough and easier to follow.
Extinction - GWF
1. Bleeds don't stack, so if you crit something more often the once every 5 seconds it's being wasted, probably more effective with a low crit rate.
2. They don't roll, the bleed will end 5 seconds after you last crit even if you crit 3 times in a row before.
3. They aren't affected by anything that reduces NPC mitigation (that I could test anyway), they ALWAYS tick for a fixed amount of damage. WMS debuff definitely doesn't so anything for the bleeds.
I can't test the Instigator capstone power bonus, but considering how badly the bleeds are coded you may want to double check that the bleeds actually increase when you have a 5 stack. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take it into account.
Powers:
Feats:
? You putting down bleeds without even testing? It only takes maybe 30 seconds. The bleeds increase in damage when they are buffed from instigator. I run a parser but i guess your none testing proves its bad.
Instead you go all snarky and rude. I also run ACT so GTFO with your arrogance and try and be useful instead.
So TY for testing the capstone and checking it works, the rest of your post can go fly.
Extinction - GWF
Thanks for the feedback Burn. One thing I wanted to point out with crit. I see what you are saying with regards to high crit potentially wasting bleeds if an enemy is bleeding and gets crited again. Crits serve a couple more purposes as well though. The next crit even if the bleed doesn't get fully utilized does shred another stack of armour helping everyone in the party do damage. The other thing it does is of course do more damage then it otherwise would have.
It would be ideal if the bleeds stacked up or at least refreshed though. Not sure why they don't, doesn't seem like the devs dealt with deep gash correctly if they neither stack nor refresh.
Extinction - GWF
That's money man, I am going to do up the complete tree's after my vacation. I might even PM you if I can't figure out how to do it correctly.
Extinction - GWF
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
I'm looking at that tier 2 ability in the initiator tree. Currently running Destroyer, but trying to decide if I want to 5/5 the two, or run through initiator 10pts...
Since GWF is an 'off tank' class, you will always get hammered by add's. Always. No way around it.
As for the bleed information, I was told it refreshes off each crit and does it's paltry damage as an add-on per crit. Don't know if this is true or not, but I'm trying it out on my Destroyer build instead of the debuff stacks from Swords. I haven't noticed a huge difference, but one thing I have noticed is that the extra crit damage from the debuff seemed to be a far, far higher amount of damage than the bleed could ever hope to be. Could be wrong here, but I was critting for roughly 1500 on WMS after the debuff got rolling, whereas now I never really crit for higher than maybe 1200 or so. It might just be a build difference since I run mostly destroyer, but it's something to consider. Especially when you're already relying on fast crit attacks with your instigator build. It's probably less noticeable for you though, since Destroyer relies a little more on Encounters and 'big crits' to do DPS which is exactly the situation where a debuff would pull ahead in effectiveness.
This makes me really wonder exactly why the hell it is that something in the Destroyer tree is far more useful to another feat tree, since on paper and in play it seems that the Swords debuff is a far better option. Getting both Deep Gash and Swords is of course possible, but frankly you could get the 25% power add on for slam and the swords debuff and probably be in better shape than using Deep Gash. After all, it's harder to take armor debuffs into consideration in a parse than a bleed. Especially on dummies.
That being said there are two important things to consider with Deep Gash. Firstly, in the Destroyer tree you get a feat that up's your Power by 25% when slam is active. This does in fact change the damage of your bleed to the new, higher Power value.
There is another feat, the cap stone in Instigator, which gives you a base 50% increase in power with maximum stacks. I can only imagine that changes the bleed damage in the same way.
This might, in fact, give Deep Gash a small advantage on builds such as this. Couldn't say for sure without parsing, but there are things you can do to buff the damage on Deep Gash along with the rest of your attacks too. It is not always a flat number.
I'd be more interested to find out how the bleeds over-write one another, as you can't stop yourself from overwriting your power buffed higher damage bleed with a lower power, less buffed version. Maybe it takes the stronger effect into consideration, but considering all the other little glitches and bugs that plague the GWF I seriously doubt that it does.
Best advice here is fight mobs in the cleric circle. Shouldn't be too much incoming damage if you do this.
Extinction - GWF
Sure, feel free. I've been tempted to make a short movie even since I'm running fraps, but I don't have anything to compress the raw video with anymore and uploading it raw would take ages.