Having tested both instigator and destroyer play styles now id say they both give out compareable damage though ill admit being slightly in favour of instigator as the on demand combat advantage can provide a huge team damage bonus.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Sure, feel free. I've been tempted to make a short movie even since I'm running fraps, but I don't have anything to compress the raw video with anymore and uploading it raw would take ages.
I know nothing about frapsing and loading video. Once I get done the powers and feats screenshots, ill see what's involved with the video.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
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qualityplayerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Hey again Extinction, just wanted to let you know how much I love the build, I made a build based off of yours (almost same) and I just rocked Spellplague epic my first T2 as first on dmg with 2nd dps 1+ mil behind :-)
I wanted to ask you a question though, I received some loot, including the sword "Reaver's Edge" and the helmet from dungeon delve reward "Vigilante Warlord's Helmet" I don't know if you remember them or ever came across them, but the helmet is supposedly T2 right? but both sword and helmet have emphasis on defense / deflection / regneration (useless stats imo) but the sword for example have about 40 more maximum damage as weapon damage than the pvp greatsword i'm using, was wondering if you had an opinion about this? my current helmet is blue but gives a **** ton of power + crit, sword gives only useful stats too, should I use them ? or sell? is defense / deflection of any use as instigator dps GWF?
Just wanted to say your build worked great. I have since modified it slightly for a little more pvp ability by dropping the points in the wicked strike bonus damage for stunning flourish. Been working pretty well still for pve by still buffing the group, but I only use WMS for AOE now and alternate WMS and SS for single target. Flourish crits almost every time as well.
Anyone looking for a spec that can operate decently in PVP and PVE should try it out.
is defense / deflection of any use as instigator dps GWF?
Defense certainly is with the feat that gives part of your defense as power, so any +def item is +pow as well for you. Deflection you need alot of for it to make a difference and it's best for TR's who take 1/4th damage on a deflection rather than a GWF's 1/2...
Also regen (& life steal) are your friends... healing in general is the friend of anyone who seeks out damage.
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slywashereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Extinction , Got to 60 ( woohoo), Now I'm looking for sets and while I understand Power>crit>recovery>arpen Which set would you get for T1 / T2 .. I'm guessing for T1 Berserker Scale and for T2 Avatar of War Scale, while getting arpen in belt/rings/amulet. Am I correct in my reasoning?
Also, any preference towards weapon sets? what about belt?
Since GWF is an 'off tank' class, you will always get hammered by add's. Always. No way around it.
There is another feat, the cap stone in Instigator, which gives you a base 50% increase in power with maximum stacks. I can only imagine that changes the bleed damage in the same way.
How well do these two work together?
I play very aggressively in PvE but am not adverse to changing playstyle for the build. My main question here is how often are you at full stacks with +50% power?
So far as I can tell you need to get hit more to get determination up for unstoppable than with the Destroyer build - but wouldn't that strip your stacks from the Capstone? Or do the stacks instantly build when hitting multiple mobs from your AoE damage?
I'd love to give this build a shot, but am much more PvP focused and haven't seen anything to say how well the build performs in lower number 5v5 situations. Any supporting evidence for this would also be appreciated!
Great work here guys, lets keep the GWF love coming!!
@Extinction - try using MSI Afterburner to capture video. Super simple setup, imo much easier to use than fraps.
Just got home from my vacation. 10 hours of driving ugh! Ill be back with the game tomorrow, I may just play tomorrow but expect some power and feat pics and a video forthcoming.
Also thank you to everyone reading and involved with the thread. 22 pages strong now and all pages filled with good conversation about the GWF class and no exploit, trolling and flaming!
Hey again Extinction, just wanted to let you know how much I love the build, I made a build based off of yours (almost same) and I just rocked Spellplague epic my first T2 as first on dmg with 2nd dps 1+ mil behind :-)
I wanted to ask you a question though, I received some loot, including the sword "Reaver's Edge" and the helmet from dungeon delve reward "Vigilante Warlord's Helmet" I don't know if you remember them or ever came across them, but the helmet is supposedly T2 right? but both sword and helmet have emphasis on defense / deflection / regneration (useless stats imo) but the sword for example have about 40 more maximum damage as weapon damage than the pvp greatsword i'm using, was wondering if you had an opinion about this? my current helmet is blue but gives a **** ton of power + crit, sword gives only useful stats too, should I use them ? or sell? is defense / deflection of any use as instigator dps GWF?
- QP
Hey Quality, sorry took a while to respond. Glad to hear you ripped spell plague up man. Your question on the gear, I can't speak much on the set piece, I'm building avatar of war which is the only tier 2 set I have experience with. Avatar seems pretty solid for dps focused GWF's I can say with quite a bit of confidence.
As for weapon whatever has more damage and higher stats you are looking for is def a solid upgrade. If say the same is true for all the gear. As long as you have the gears score to que the dungeons you want to run I'd use whatever gear gives you the stats you are focusing on.
In reading through this thread and what others have attempted I've learned a lot and know far more about the class then when I started the thread.
Steel blitz - extra dps and with your aoe nature is a great class feature
Is it really that good? I would think that Destroyer, Steadfast Determination, or Steel Defense would all be better?
Edit: Also, does anyone know if the Capstone feat goes away every time you are struck, or only when you take damage? If it is the latter, then Steel Defense would be amazing for keeping max stacks.
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slywashereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Extinction , Got to 60 ( woohoo), Now I'm looking for sets and while I understand Power>crit>recovery>arpen Which set would you get for T1 / T2 .. I'm guessing for T1 Berserker Scale and for T2 Avatar of War Scale, while getting arpen in belt/rings/amulet. Am I correct in my reasoning?
Also, any preference towards weapon sets? what about belt?
He said he gets AoW set somewhere here, but thats all I can really help with as I'm new.
Going to give a bit more insight to my style of playing this spec (or close to anyway) now i've been jamming 60 content a bit.
I use plague fire over anything else, because plague can proc tenebrous (which i use too)
Tenebrous in my offense slots on gear (5 slots, wep/offhand/neck/rings)
Belt i don't use an epic (i use a blue one with stacked power + recovery on it, and radiant in the socket)
Shirt has radiant in it
Pants have dark (life steal)
Defense sockets i put life steal, movespeed in utility
Gearwise i use 2/2 Berserk and 2/2 Avatar of War (when i get it) for +850 crit total from the two
Power/crit/recovery rings
Power/recovery/defence neck
Power/crit or Power/recovery belt (blue not purple, purple belts dont have good stat+offense slot)
Swordwise a good entry level one is Drakes AoW GS, or Berserk Champion (same with swordknot, Berserk Champ or AoW) progressing to Ancient Castle eventually
Playstyle wise, i like to wait until the mobs pool up a bit before tagging them with not so fast, to get the combat advantage on as many as possible, also helps you get multi-targets on your IBS, and depending what you run in 3rd (for big adds fights i use roar, else flourish, if i'm the main tank i like restoring strike) spam it as much as possible (obviously you dont want to push back an elite if your rogues dpsing it etc, but common sense does apply always)
If you're doing it right and with people around your GS you should be within 20% of the rogue, and around 20% ahead of the CW.. example
Rogue: 1million
GWF: 850k
CW: 700k
If i'm top3 damage, top2 damage taken, top2 kills I feel like it was a successful run and I pulled my weight
Going to give a bit more insight to my style of playing this spec (or close to anyway) now i've been jamming 60 content a bit.
I use plague fire over anything else, because plague can proc tenebrous (which i use too)
Tenebrous in my offense slots on gear (5 slots, wep/offhand/neck/rings)
Belt i don't use an epic (i use a blue one with stacked power + recovery on it, and radiant in the socket)
Shirt has radiant in it
Pants have dark (life steal)
Defense sockets i put life steal, movespeed in utility
Gearwise i use 2/2 Berserk and 2/2 Avatar of War (when i get it) for +850 crit total from the two
Power/crit/recovery rings
Power/recovery/defence neck
Power/crit or Power/recovery belt (blue not purple, purple belts dont have good stat+offense slot)
Swordwise a good entry level one is Drakes AoW GS, or Berserk Champion (same with swordknot, Berserk Champ or AoW) progressing to Ancient Castle eventually
Playstyle wise, i like to wait until the mobs pool up a bit before tagging them with not so fast, to get the combat advantage on as many as possible, also helps you get multi-targets on your IBS, and depending what you run in 3rd (for big adds fights i use roar, else flourish, if i'm the main tank i like restoring strike) spam it as much as possible (obviously you dont want to push back an elite if your rogues dpsing it etc, but common sense does apply always)
If you're doing it right and with people around your GS you should be within 20% of the rogue, and around 20% ahead of the CW.. example
Rogue: 1million
GWF: 850k
CW: 700k
If i'm top3 damage, top2 damage taken, top2 kills I feel like it was a successful run and I pulled my weight
What about arpen? I've seen other threads where they mention dmg reduction that mobs have that require around 2200 arpen to deal " true" dmg to them.
I mean I've compared having 0 arpen to 1000 ( current) and the diff isn't very significant, but thoughts?
Hey guys, was kind of disappointed today. My game keeps hanging at load in so wasn't able to get in at all today. I will work on screenshots as soon as I can get into the game again.
What about arpen? I've seen other threads where they mention dmg reduction that mobs have that require around 2200 arpen to deal " true" dmg to them.
I mean I've compared having 0 arpen to 1000 ( current) and the diff isn't very significant, but thoughts?
If you're running plague fire with this spec you're looking at anything from 60 up to 90% defence reduction when stacked up. ArP is a great stat if youre getting it as an added bonus on gear because it's very efficient in terms of effect per point in lower values, but given the amount of debuffs being thrown around in groups it seems much more of a PvP than a PvE stat imo.
@extinction, it's to do with loading into PE i think. Safe launch option works, so i used that to get in, then logged off in a different area then logged in just fine again afterwards.
If you're running plague fire with this spec you're looking at anything from 60 up to 90% defence reduction when stacked up. ArP is a great stat if youre getting it as an added bonus on gear because it's very efficient in terms of effect per point in lower values, but given the amount of debuffs being thrown around in groups it seems much more of a PvP than a PvE stat imo.
@extinction, it's to do with loading into PE i think. Safe launch option works, so i used that to get in, then logged off in a different area then logged in just fine again afterwards.
Thanks for the info Xero, still hanging, safe mode looks brutal lol. Hopefully a fix is forthcoming
regarding the loading issue: start your game via launcher, as soon as you are at your character selection go to options menu and make sure your game runs in fullscreen mode (not windowed max) then procced and connect to the game. your loading bar will be full and you will experience the same issue not loading. now you tab into windows wait a small amount of time (takes between 5-30 seconds for me) and then when you tab back into the game in the upper right corner "press any key" appears. now if i press any key i am in the game.
Been hitting dummies with IBS to test a few things, with 5 tenebrous enchants on my gear im averaging 6 procs per IBS on 1 dummy, i know plague fire can proc tenebrous but i'm wondering if deep gash can too..
If you're doing it right and with people around your GS you should be within 20% of the rogue, and around 20% ahead of the CW.. example
Rogue: 1million
GWF: 850k
CW: 700k
If i'm top3 damage, top2 damage taken, top2 kills I feel like it was a successful run and I pulled my weight
First of all, let me start by saying that I enjoy the playstyle of a GWF. Regardless, I am one of those that see the class as lacking. We need to forget the argument of exceptional players who can make any class seem OP and look more at the general picture.
I have been running a lot of T2 on my CW for a while now. After getting comfortable with the class, the dungeons, the rotations, I can tell you that the only time your average GWF is in the top 2 dps, is when the party has 2 tank built GFs, and 2 DCs. All else being equal, I do not recall the last time I saw a GWF surpass the dps of an AOE/CC slotted CW, and nowhere NEAR 20% behind a decent TR. Hec I see TRs in their PvP gear sometimes going over 30%+ more dps than a T2 GWF/CW.
Second, the dps meter is really nothing to measure the performance of a class. Instead ask yourself this, what does a GWF bring to a party that a CW can't do? A CW does more dps (from my experience), and a ton of control/cc/knockbacks along with it, all with the luxury of staying at range and still continue dps. I even see dps spec GFs that do more than a GWF on the meter while providing situational tanking and more survivability.
My issue with GWF is not where they are ranked on the DPS meter. My issue with the class is that it doesn't provide a utility in a party that justifies its lower dps. Will I refuse to group with a GWF? Never. Would a competent GWF be better than an incompetent TR? definitely. The content of the game so far is very forgiving. As the game mechanics get deeper, and content get harder, they need to create a niche for GWF and even GFs, who in general aren't always needed either.
I am not doubting your experience. Maybe in your runs you are in the top 2 or 3 of the meter, but that only tells us that maybe you know how to play your class well and have reached its peak, while the others you are running with do not know how to play their classes well yet.
Hey everyone, Trickshaw has been doing some amazing work with understanding armour pen and its effect on damage. I am continuing to follow his testing and may look at some tweaks as we get a better understanding of the work he is doing.
As of this afternoon I'm still hanging getting into the game so have not been in yet. If the prices aren't through the roof on arm pen enchants I will try and get my hands on some and see what sort of results they produce and give my thoughts accordingly.
At wills:
Weapon Master Strike - amazing debuff for buffed Wicked Strike hits from Initiator tree
Wicked Strike - buffed from Initiator tree to do stacking increased damage for each foe hit, wrecks enemies during Unstoppable
Using these 2 at-wills has a timing to maximize dps. When not on unstoppable you want to be tapping weapon master strike and then immediately hitting wicked strike. Your second AOE cleave of weapon master strike goes off while your wicked striking stacking both attacks debuffing your enemies and boosting dps significantly. Once your second WMS swing is complete you want to finish the swing your on with wicked strike and tap WMS again to reque up the free attack while you get back to wicked strike.
During unstoppable these two at-wills become <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with this build as you will see further down into the build how this all synergies with group play. Anyway, how you hit unstoppable with this set up is as follows. You want to tap your WMS, after tapping WMS hit your unstoppable and start going to town with your wicked strikes. With the unstoppable buff, your WMS debuff and your Initiator WS buff paired up with your other feats the screen will become a spray of damage numbers and is a thing of beauty.
Dear Extinction,
Thank you so much for this guide. I chose GWF as my first char and I've been following your guide the whole way.
My question is regarding the At Will usage. I just hit 35 and picked up WMS. Could you clarify how exactly one should combo WMS and Wicked Strike? Your explanation is a little confusing...
Thank you so much for this guide. I chose GWF as my first char and I've been following your guide the whole way.
My question is regarding the At Will usage. I just hit 35 and picked up WMS. Could you clarify how exactly one should combo WMS and Wicked Strike? Your explanation is a little confusing...
Hi nairul, grats on lvl 35! The portion you quoted and are asking about ...
You want to tap WMS to start its frontal part of the animation. By tap I mean just hit the mouse button don't hold it down. Then you want to hold down your wicked strike. The rear animation of WMS was queued up when you tapped your WMS and will still complete WHILE you are wicked striking thus both attacks are happening at the same time.
You will get the timing and see what I mean as you play with the 2 at-wills. This process debuffes your targets and does damage from the WMS while your buffed up wicked strikes hammer away with group assault and possibly your combat bonus and crit increase if you've tagged them with not so fast.
Hi nairul, grats on lvl 35! The portion you quoted and are asking about ...
You want to tap WMS to start its frontal part of the animation. By tap I mean just hit the mouse button don't hold it down. Then you want to hold down your wicked strike. The rear animation of WMS was queued up when you tapped your WMS and will still complete WHILE you are wicked striking thus both attacks are happening at the same time.
You will get the timing and see what I mean as you play with the 2 at-wills. This process debuffes your targets and does damage from the WMS while your buffed up wicked strikes hammer away with group assault and possibly your combat bonus and crit increase if you've tagged them with not so fast.
So, after the initial tap, when do you tap WMS again? I have no concept of how long that WMS buff lasts.
Comments
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
I know nothing about frapsing and loading video. Once I get done the powers and feats screenshots, ill see what's involved with the video.
Extinction - GWF
I wanted to ask you a question though, I received some loot, including the sword "Reaver's Edge" and the helmet from dungeon delve reward "Vigilante Warlord's Helmet" I don't know if you remember them or ever came across them, but the helmet is supposedly T2 right? but both sword and helmet have emphasis on defense / deflection / regneration (useless stats imo) but the sword for example have about 40 more maximum damage as weapon damage than the pvp greatsword i'm using, was wondering if you had an opinion about this? my current helmet is blue but gives a **** ton of power + crit, sword gives only useful stats too, should I use them ? or sell? is defense / deflection of any use as instigator dps GWF?
- QP
QualityPlayer - Mindflayer 60 GWF
Anyone looking for a spec that can operate decently in PVP and PVE should try it out.
Defense certainly is with the feat that gives part of your defense as power, so any +def item is +pow as well for you. Deflection you need alot of for it to make a difference and it's best for TR's who take 1/4th damage on a deflection rather than a GWF's 1/2...
Also regen (& life steal) are your friends... healing in general is the friend of anyone who seeks out damage.
Also, any preference towards weapon sets? what about belt?
How well do these two work together?
I play very aggressively in PvE but am not adverse to changing playstyle for the build. My main question here is how often are you at full stacks with +50% power?
So far as I can tell you need to get hit more to get determination up for unstoppable than with the Destroyer build - but wouldn't that strip your stacks from the Capstone? Or do the stacks instantly build when hitting multiple mobs from your AoE damage?
I'd love to give this build a shot, but am much more PvP focused and haven't seen anything to say how well the build performs in lower number 5v5 situations. Any supporting evidence for this would also be appreciated!
Great work here guys, lets keep the GWF love coming!!
@Extinction - try using MSI Afterburner to capture video. Super simple setup, imo much easier to use than fraps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxgAZqiSsuY
Awesome build. Thanks!
Also thank you to everyone reading and involved with the thread. 22 pages strong now and all pages filled with good conversation about the GWF class and no exploit, trolling and flaming!
Thanks again everyone, glad to be back!
Extinction - GWF
Hey Quality, sorry took a while to respond. Glad to hear you ripped spell plague up man. Your question on the gear, I can't speak much on the set piece, I'm building avatar of war which is the only tier 2 set I have experience with. Avatar seems pretty solid for dps focused GWF's I can say with quite a bit of confidence.
As for weapon whatever has more damage and higher stats you are looking for is def a solid upgrade. If say the same is true for all the gear. As long as you have the gears score to que the dungeons you want to run I'd use whatever gear gives you the stats you are focusing on.
In reading through this thread and what others have attempted I've learned a lot and know far more about the class then when I started the thread.
Extinction - GWF
anyone know when the stats hit a "cap". I got 2900 crit rating, thats about 36% crit and I`m only in T1.
Haha, sometimes vacation feels less like vacation then regular life! One week was just that amount of time lol.
Extinction - GWF
Edit: Also, does anyone know if the Capstone feat goes away every time you are struck, or only when you take damage? If it is the latter, then Steel Defense would be amazing for keeping max stacks.
I use plague fire over anything else, because plague can proc tenebrous (which i use too)
Tenebrous in my offense slots on gear (5 slots, wep/offhand/neck/rings)
Belt i don't use an epic (i use a blue one with stacked power + recovery on it, and radiant in the socket)
Shirt has radiant in it
Pants have dark (life steal)
Defense sockets i put life steal, movespeed in utility
Gearwise i use 2/2 Berserk and 2/2 Avatar of War (when i get it) for +850 crit total from the two
Power/crit/recovery rings
Power/recovery/defence neck
Power/crit or Power/recovery belt (blue not purple, purple belts dont have good stat+offense slot)
Swordwise a good entry level one is Drakes AoW GS, or Berserk Champion (same with swordknot, Berserk Champ or AoW) progressing to Ancient Castle eventually
Playstyle wise, i like to wait until the mobs pool up a bit before tagging them with not so fast, to get the combat advantage on as many as possible, also helps you get multi-targets on your IBS, and depending what you run in 3rd (for big adds fights i use roar, else flourish, if i'm the main tank i like restoring strike) spam it as much as possible (obviously you dont want to push back an elite if your rogues dpsing it etc, but common sense does apply always)
If you're doing it right and with people around your GS you should be within 20% of the rogue, and around 20% ahead of the CW.. example
Rogue: 1million
GWF: 850k
CW: 700k
If i'm top3 damage, top2 damage taken, top2 kills I feel like it was a successful run and I pulled my weight
What about arpen? I've seen other threads where they mention dmg reduction that mobs have that require around 2200 arpen to deal " true" dmg to them.
I mean I've compared having 0 arpen to 1000 ( current) and the diff isn't very significant, but thoughts?
another question : @xeromus @extintion what are your stat numbers at.
Extinction - GWF
http://puu.sh/31ybd.jpg my current stats
@extinction, it's to do with loading into PE i think. Safe launch option works, so i used that to get in, then logged off in a different area then logged in just fine again afterwards.
Thanks for the info Xero, still hanging, safe mode looks brutal lol. Hopefully a fix is forthcoming
Extinction - GWF
regarding the loading issue: start your game via launcher, as soon as you are at your character selection go to options menu and make sure your game runs in fullscreen mode (not windowed max) then procced and connect to the game. your loading bar will be full and you will experience the same issue not loading. now you tab into windows wait a small amount of time (takes between 5-30 seconds for me) and then when you tab back into the game in the upper right corner "press any key" appears. now if i press any key i am in the game.
maybe it helps
http://puu.sh/31NDS.jpg
Judging by that, it seemingly can, which would only make tenebrous more superior with bleeds than radiant
Also, i'm getting steel blitz procs with IBS on 1 dummy, wasnt sure if it was meant to proc only on 2+ targets
First of all, let me start by saying that I enjoy the playstyle of a GWF. Regardless, I am one of those that see the class as lacking. We need to forget the argument of exceptional players who can make any class seem OP and look more at the general picture.
I have been running a lot of T2 on my CW for a while now. After getting comfortable with the class, the dungeons, the rotations, I can tell you that the only time your average GWF is in the top 2 dps, is when the party has 2 tank built GFs, and 2 DCs. All else being equal, I do not recall the last time I saw a GWF surpass the dps of an AOE/CC slotted CW, and nowhere NEAR 20% behind a decent TR. Hec I see TRs in their PvP gear sometimes going over 30%+ more dps than a T2 GWF/CW.
Second, the dps meter is really nothing to measure the performance of a class. Instead ask yourself this, what does a GWF bring to a party that a CW can't do? A CW does more dps (from my experience), and a ton of control/cc/knockbacks along with it, all with the luxury of staying at range and still continue dps. I even see dps spec GFs that do more than a GWF on the meter while providing situational tanking and more survivability.
My issue with GWF is not where they are ranked on the DPS meter. My issue with the class is that it doesn't provide a utility in a party that justifies its lower dps. Will I refuse to group with a GWF? Never. Would a competent GWF be better than an incompetent TR? definitely. The content of the game so far is very forgiving. As the game mechanics get deeper, and content get harder, they need to create a niche for GWF and even GFs, who in general aren't always needed either.
I am not doubting your experience. Maybe in your runs you are in the top 2 or 3 of the meter, but that only tells us that maybe you know how to play your class well and have reached its peak, while the others you are running with do not know how to play their classes well yet.
As of this afternoon I'm still hanging getting into the game so have not been in yet. If the prices aren't through the roof on arm pen enchants I will try and get my hands on some and see what sort of results they produce and give my thoughts accordingly.
Extinction - GWF
Dear Extinction,
Thank you so much for this guide. I chose GWF as my first char and I've been following your guide the whole way.
My question is regarding the At Will usage. I just hit 35 and picked up WMS. Could you clarify how exactly one should combo WMS and Wicked Strike? Your explanation is a little confusing...
Hi nairul, grats on lvl 35! The portion you quoted and are asking about ...
You want to tap WMS to start its frontal part of the animation. By tap I mean just hit the mouse button don't hold it down. Then you want to hold down your wicked strike. The rear animation of WMS was queued up when you tapped your WMS and will still complete WHILE you are wicked striking thus both attacks are happening at the same time.
You will get the timing and see what I mean as you play with the 2 at-wills. This process debuffes your targets and does damage from the WMS while your buffed up wicked strikes hammer away with group assault and possibly your combat bonus and crit increase if you've tagged them with not so fast.
Extinction - GWF
So, after the initial tap, when do you tap WMS again? I have no concept of how long that WMS buff lasts.