my at-will (sure strike) at lvl 55 is doing the same dmg as TR at-will.
only diffrence is that im doing it at lvl55 and he at lvl32......
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well i can't really say for dungeons since no one really wants a GFW in a pug and i haven't decided on a guild yet but my experience from doing foundries is that i'm extremely squishy if i go for a dps build and i have to chug so many potions it's actually costing me gold to do them which seems a bit excessive
Unless i spec sentinel of course which is what i'm running now since i'm not getting groups anyway. This is with 8600 GS by the way
Well i can't really say for dungeons since no one really wants a GFW in a pug and i haven't decided on a guild yet but my experience from doing foundries is that i'm extremely squishy if i go for a dps build and i have to chug so many potions it's actually costing me gold to do them which seems a bit excessive
Unless i spec sentinel of course which is what i'm running now since i'm not getting groups anyway. This is with 8600 GS by the way
u heard the lead designer Paul Velasquez: everything is as intended only the FEEL about the class is wrong
so there is no reason to panic, GWF will sure be underdog for another 4months (imo)
better invest time in other character or even other game that actually can do class balance
I'm wondering why people think that Great Weapon Fighters need a buff to begin with. Is it because you as a Great Weapon fighter are not topping the charts in dungeons and Player vs Player? Seriously, did you think rolling a hybrid class would make it so that you did one thing well? A Great Weapon Fighter is a hybrid class. Meaning that it does multiple things, but none of them really well. A Great Weapon Fighter deals damage in an Area of Effect format, a Great Weapon Fighter, has Crowd Control abilities, a Great Weapon Fighter has Tanking skills, but their skills are no where near as close to the primary characters that do these things well. You're not supposed to do these things well. You, as a Great Weapon Fighter are a jack of all trades, but a master of none. If you abandon one thing in pursuit of another, then your build will falter.
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
Lol, dude. Did you actually read his well written post or just fire away? Cobearz is so right in that post. We are irrelevant to end game content due to the design of the devs. It's not about the damage meters.
Something needs to be done to make this class desired in end game delves.
funny thing is that even in pvp u faking uselles.
either u meet premade of tr/cw and one cd or 5dc
u can ofc try the stunlock build but if the one part dont crit u left there to die basicly to any1
and tr or cw fanboys wont admit that theyre class is better than GWF. they simply tell u L2P/GWF super strong.....
lol pathetic kids
Part of the problem is that most GWF don't know how to play. Someone who seemed reasonably intelligent (haven't known him long, but still) in my guild was using sure strike on boss fights. With many adds. I think something that increases the damage we do by X% for each target we hit would be a good fix, say 5-10%, allowing for some pretty amazing damage in aoe situations (while not making things OP in pvp).
Part of the problem is that most GWF don't know how to play. Someone who seemed reasonably intelligent (haven't known him long, but still) in my guild was using sure strike on boss fights. With many adds. I think something that increases the damage we do by X% for each target we hit would be a good fix, say 5-10%, allowing for some pretty amazing damage in aoe situations (while not making things OP in pvp).
as long as adds are being thrown out of cliffs by CWs u dont need aoedmg dealer.
only hope is to either increase solo dmg and make gwf practicaly TR only with 2h and different armor or improve/add CC abilities to compensate CW
I haven't seen endgame yet, but I have leveled all classes to at least 25.
The GWF... yeah....
GWF single target dmg is rolftastic - I mean it's that bad - esp compared to my rogue spamming its lvl 1 at-will. Even my control oriented wizard spamming its lvl 1 at-will surpasses my GWF by a wide margin (not to mention that it's far easier to stay on target and build up better damage). AOE wise the GWF seems almost the same as my rogue, as the rogue can take down a pack of mobs 1 at a time just as fast, but seems to fall behind the CW. The CW at this level seems to do better AOE and single target dps than the GWF, which is a shame as it's control oriented, unlike the dps-focus of my GWF.
In addition, the GWF feels like a one-trick pony, because without the slam daily I would probably be too embarrassed to bring him to a dungeon lol.
After having experienced these results in game, I then came to the forums to hear tell what others had experienced. To learn that the GWF had been roflstomped nerfed prior to Open Beta made perfect sense to me. Anyone who plays ALL the classes can easily discover this (excepting the devs apparently lol).
The GWF has a few things going for it tho - it's armor and animations look **** cool and feel fun - and it's melee gameplay is quite fun. But it def needs a buff...esp a single target damage buff at lower lvls.
GWF mobility is also <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor compared to the other classes (not the guard), and could use a buff - again speaking of low levels.
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mallooteMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I haven't seen endgame yet, but I have leveled all classes to at least 25.
The GWF... yeah....
GWF single target dmg is rolftastic - I mean it's that bad - esp compared to my rogue spamming its lvl 1 at-will. Even my control oriented wizard spamming its lvl 1 at-will surpasses my GWF by a wide margin (not to mention that it's far easier to stay on target and build up better damage). AOE wise the GWF seems almost the same as my rogue, as the rogue can take down a pack of mobs 1 at a time just as fast, but seems to fall behind the CW. The CW at this level seems to do better AOE and single target dps than the GWF, which is a shame as it's control oriented, unlike the dps-focus of my GWF.
In addition, the GWF feels like a one-trick pony, because without the slam daily I would probably be too embarrassed to bring him to a dungeon lol.
After having experienced these results in game, I then came to the forums to hear tell what others had experienced. To learn that the GWF had been roflstomped nerfed prior to Open Beta made perfect sense to me. Anyone who plays ALL the classes can easily discover this (excepting the devs apparently lol).
The GWF has a few things going for it tho - it's armor and animations look **** cool and feel fun - and it's melee gameplay is quite fun. But it def needs a buff...esp a single target damage buff at lower lvls.
GWF mobility is also <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor compared to the other classes (not the guard), and could use a buff - again speaking of low levels.
Agree with allot said in this thread but the mobility is actually the best of any class, i just think allot of people don't play it well with shift to enable sprint but with double tap. When you double tap you destroy the best part which is the fact you can manage Stamina much better with GWF then with other classes. Need to move a few steps to avoid a red circle? ok nps and very little stamina used. Need to move to the other side of the bossroom to dps down the big add? ok just press shift and you are there faster then any other class. no stopping in between etc.
Single target dps is so poor its not even funny and until lvl 30 thats all you got! Terrible design. Don't get started about the get hit and wait wile i power up skill. If you use that you will be using much more pots then needed
The only thing i like about GWF is that it makes me a better player, just can't afford to slack on that one.
"precisation" Does this word exist in English ? Lol, maybe I cant play my fave class since its a wimp but at least Im learning new words and improving my english
Lol... Yeah it doesn't exist, clarification would be best shah.
I guess I'm one of the few Great Weapon Fighters who didn't have any issues at low level. In the majority of skirmishes I've run in I am either in first place under every category, or in second place with a hardly marginal difference of 2-3 kills under a Control Wizard, and 100 points of damage in pain giver under a Trickster Rogue, and equal to if not marginally under or over a Guardian Fighter in Immovable Object.
A Great weapon fighter at level 10 becomes practically indomitable, able to inflict enormous amounts of damage faster to single and multiple targets alike. Knowing when to pop your determination is pivotal in the classes use, but also not being afraid to use it all the time is key to it as well.
And yes, Great weapon fighters are a hybrid class, they feature mechanics like a pair of mass taunts, critical strike buffs, aoe damage, and a feat that increases your damage based on your defense in the heroic tree. If you can utilize these skills properly by stacking the appropriate stats you can truly become indomitable.
As a great weapon fighter, you should consider taking a look at the weapons that the developers have put in game, such as the Greataxe of Anger, and the Greatsword of Kings. These weapons favor one stat that no other readily available weapon does - life steal. That's right, if you hope to be an effective Great Weapon fighter, utilizing life steal and armor penetration are going to be your bread and butter, as well as not being afraid to use your determination at half full. There's also the fact that because great weapon fighters build up AP at an incredible rate of speed, you should be using those skills far more often than anyone else, especially Slam.
As for below level 10 skills? Sure Strike, Reaping Strike, and Restoring Strike will become skills that you will use even in late game, often. I still use Sure Strike at level 60, and Restoring Strike when I feel the need to gain extra healing when bossing. Admittedly Reaping strike is a skill that is difficult to master, but saying that it's useless is far from the truth.
As for Sprint? If you haven't figured out that using sprint and Restoring strike together allows you to sprint a great deal more, then you likely did not read the skill descriptor. At level 10, when you gain the ability to utilize Determination and Sprint together, you will realize that you no longer need to run out of massive aoe attacks unleashed by bosses.
Knowing where you need to be in combat is also important, as Great Weapon Fighters should almost never be standing in front of a Big Bad.
Now... To give some agreement to the others:
I do agree that a Great Weapon Fighter does "Come into it's own" at level 20, gaining skills like Wicked Strike and Roar, allowing for more constant Aoe damage, and quicker Determination generation. I will also agree that some skills that the Great Weapon Fighter utilizes are quite simply put, lame (Not so Fast, Mighty Leap, Bravery), and would be better suited to a Guardian Fighter, but saying that a Great Weapon fighter needs a buff is far from the truth.
Maybe I'm bias, and I have been running with poor examples of Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters and Trickster rogues. Maybe I've seen something in this that others can't in this class, or maybe it's because at level 22 I did 1,000 less damage than a level 35 Trickster Rogue in The Cloak Tower, had 16 fewer kills than he did, and came in first place in Immovable Object over a level 30 Guardian fighter in the same instance.
Or maybe I'm doing something different with this class, and it's working.
I guess I'm one of the few Great Weapon Fighters who didn't have any issues at low level. In the majority of skirmishes I've run in I am either in first place under every category, or in second place with a hardly marginal difference of 2-3 kills under a Control Wizard, and 100 points of damage in pain giver under a Trickster Rogue, and equal to if not marginally under or over a Guardian Fighter in Immovable Object.
A Great weapon fighter at level 10 becomes practically indomitable, able to inflict enormous amounts of damage faster to single and multiple targets alike. Knowing when to pop your determination is pivotal in the classes use, but also not being afraid to use it all the time is key to it as well.
And yes, Great weapon fighters are a hybrid class, they feature mechanics like a pair of mass taunts, critical strike buffs, aoe damage, and a feat that increases your damage based on your defense in the heroic tree. If you can utilize these skills properly by stacking the appropriate stats you can truly become indomitable.
As a great weapon fighter, you should consider taking a look at the weapons that the developers have put in game, such as the Greataxe of Anger, and the Greatsword of Kings. These weapons favor one stat that no other readily available weapon does - life steal. That's right, if you hope to be an effective Great Weapon fighter, utilizing life steal and armor penetration are going to be your bread and butter, as well as not being afraid to use your determination at half full. There's also the fact that because great weapon fighters build up AP at an incredible rate of speed, you should be using those skills far more often than anyone else, especially Slam.
As for below level 10 skills? Sure Strike, Reaping Strike, and Restoring Strike will become skills that you will use even in late game, often. I still use Sure Strike at level 60, and Restoring Strike when I feel the need to gain extra healing when bossing. Admittedly Reaping strike is a skill that is difficult to master, but saying that it's useless is far from the truth.
As for Sprint? If you haven't figured out that using sprint and Restoring strike together allows you to sprint a great deal more, then you likely did not read the skill descriptor. At level 10, when you gain the ability to utilize Determination and Sprint together, you will realize that you no longer need to run out of massive aoe attacks unleashed by bosses.
Knowing where you need to be in combat is also important, as Great Weapon Fighters should almost never be standing in front of a Big Bad.
Now... To give some agreement to the others:
I do agree that a Great Weapon Fighter does "Come into it's own" at level 20, gaining skills like Wicked Strike and Roar, allowing for more constant Aoe damage, and quicker Determination generation. I will also agree that some skills that the Great Weapon Fighter utilizes are quite simply put, lame (Not so Fast, Mighty Leap, Bravery), and would be better suited to a Guardian Fighter, but saying that a Great Weapon fighter needs a buff is far from the truth.
Maybe I'm bias, and I have been running with poor examples of Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters and Trickster rogues. Maybe I've seen something in this that others can't in this class, or maybe it's because at level 22 I did 1,000 less damage than a level 35 Trickster Rogue in The Cloak Tower, had 16 fewer kills than he did, and came in first place in Immovable Object over a level 30 Guardian fighter in the same instance.
Or maybe I'm doing something different with this class, and it's working.
again. lvlign doesnt matter. what matter is what u can do at 60. and GWF cant do anything.
so thats about it. enxt time u can save time writing uber-long and pointless posts
As a high end T2 GWF on Mindflayer, I believe that we do need:
1. a slight increase in all of our abilities damage, mainly Weapon Master Strike, Not So Fast, Sure Strike.
2. There needs to be some increase on our abilities cast animation, our mobility compared to other classes is far lacking. You pretty much need to be at a standstill in order to do your abilities. Weapon Master Strike Mainly and Sure Strike.
3. Sprint is a terrible and I MEAN TERRIBLE, ability. In my opinion, they need to change this to the rest of the classes by making it a short leap or a charge and the same recharging time as of other classes, that can also dodge much like Trickster Rogue and Control Wizard.
I agree with point 1 which relates to point 2. If I'm going to be locked down into turret mode while doing damage then the damage needs to be worth while. Locking me down whilst simultaneously nerfing my damage doesn't follow in my mind.
As far as point 3, I think you're out of your mind. Sprint, as is, is completely awesome and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I, however, would like to see a regen buff attached to strength's contribution. Either that or revert our feat discount back to 25% from it's current 15% which it was nerfed to.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I guess I'm one of the few Great Weapon Fighters who didn't have any issues at low level. In the majority of skirmishes I've run in I am either in first place under every category, or in second place with a hardly marginal difference of 2-3 kills under a Control Wizard, and 100 points of damage in pain giver under a Trickster Rogue, and equal to if not marginally under or over a Guardian Fighter in Immovable Object.
A Great weapon fighter at level 10 becomes practically indomitable, able to inflict enormous amounts of damage faster to single and multiple targets alike. Knowing when to pop your determination is pivotal in the classes use, but also not being afraid to use it all the time is key to it as well.
And yes, Great weapon fighters are a hybrid class, they feature mechanics like a pair of mass taunts, critical strike buffs, aoe damage, and a feat that increases your damage based on your defense in the heroic tree. If you can utilize these skills properly by stacking the appropriate stats you can truly become indomitable.
As a great weapon fighter, you should consider taking a look at the weapons that the developers have put in game, such as the Greataxe of Anger, and the Greatsword of Kings. These weapons favor one stat that no other readily available weapon does - life steal. That's right, if you hope to be an effective Great Weapon fighter, utilizing life steal and armor penetration are going to be your bread and butter, as well as not being afraid to use your determination at half full. There's also the fact that because great weapon fighters build up AP at an incredible rate of speed, you should be using those skills far more often than anyone else, especially Slam.
As for below level 10 skills? Sure Strike, Reaping Strike, and Restoring Strike will become skills that you will use even in late game, often. I still use Sure Strike at level 60, and Restoring Strike when I feel the need to gain extra healing when bossing. Admittedly Reaping strike is a skill that is difficult to master, but saying that it's useless is far from the truth.
As for Sprint? If you haven't figured out that using sprint and Restoring strike together allows you to sprint a great deal more, then you likely did not read the skill descriptor. At level 10, when you gain the ability to utilize Determination and Sprint together, you will realize that you no longer need to run out of massive aoe attacks unleashed by bosses.
Knowing where you need to be in combat is also important, as Great Weapon Fighters should almost never be standing in front of a Big Bad.
Now... To give some agreement to the others:
I do agree that a Great Weapon Fighter does "Come into it's own" at level 20, gaining skills like Wicked Strike and Roar, allowing for more constant Aoe damage, and quicker Determination generation. I will also agree that some skills that the Great Weapon Fighter utilizes are quite simply put, lame (Not so Fast, Mighty Leap, Bravery), and would be better suited to a Guardian Fighter, but saying that a Great Weapon fighter needs a buff is far from the truth.
Maybe I'm bias, and I have been running with poor examples of Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters and Trickster rogues. Maybe I've seen something in this that others can't in this class, or maybe it's because at level 22 I did 1,000 less damage than a level 35 Trickster Rogue in The Cloak Tower, had 16 fewer kills than he did, and came in first place in Immovable Object over a level 30 Guardian fighter in the same instance.
Or maybe I'm doing something different with this class, and it's working.
That's all well and good
I did fine in lower level skirmish and dungeons too, that's not the issue though
The main issue right now is that the end game dungeon mechanics makes GWF completely unwanted because CW can instagib adds and bring better control and dps to the table. Add to that how people are abusing astral shield stacking instead of bringing a tank and our hybridness becomes completely pointless. Well that and the fact we can't hold threat anyway
When GWF (and GF) are instantly kicked from pugs simply because of our class something is clearly wrong. There is really no point in stating our class is fine when all signs points to it's not. No one wants us in their pugs and who can blame them honestly? 2 DC, 2 CW and 1 TR and it's smooth sailing. That's flawed design
i like the excuses that rogues are pure damage and have no survivability, and that's why GWFs who supposedly have survivability should not deal rogue-like damage.
i like the excuses that rogues are pure damage and have no survivability, and that's why GWFs who supposedly have survivability should not deal rogue-like damage.
I'm wondering why people think that Great Weapon Fighters need a buff to begin with.
...
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
This is watching things with a tunnel vision IMOH. I have nothing against you in particular but GWF for now has many problems, thinking that since he is " hybrid " is not a way to justify them.
I don't mind being in the first position of dungeon charts, or pvp charts, i actually mind on BEING ABLE TO JOIN A DUNGEON GRP, without being excluded because, TR can do better dps on single target, CW have CCs, and we don't have anything useful or at least seen as useful by other players.
You can tell them " i lower enemies defense by 45% " and they don't even care, since picking 1 guy TR or CW already makes the party do more damage than picking you.
The biggest problem of GWF is that is a super gear dependent class, and they do their best when you have lot of enemies on screen.
Even if they improve our single target skills , we don't work properly anyway. Single target is not our role, we have no sustained damage, we can burst but not keep it going.
And with gear dependent comes the biggest problem, somebody of us have been able to play in party with his friend most of the time, if you have friends to play with you can be carried by them to high end dungeon like CN and others, and you can get gear, drops to sell and than you reach your GS mark, over 10k at that point you can do fine in groups, and other player feel like you are useful somehow because they see that 10k gs -.-
If you don't have mates to play with , and for example you are in a big guild with many CW TR nobody will let you party with them, you may reach 9000k gs somehow, from that point it's a pain in the a@@.
At that point what you try? Pugs? You don't even try in public chat to ask for party, since nobody will invite you as a GWF.
So you queue, you wait time to find a party, than you join one, than what? no cleric? rinse repeat.
It always takes at least 20 min just to find a party to start a dungeon. 20 min if you look for lair of pirate king which is the most farmed. If you try other it may take more. And consider that going with pugs is like a gamble since you don't know how good are the other players.... you may not even end the dungeon run.
So while you loose time trying to get in a dungeon, other players with other classes keep having easy access to dungeons, keep improve they GS, keep earning AD from selling drops to the AH, at some point the gap between you and them will be more than 1.5k, and they consider you even less than before.
I don't think that buffing some skills will actually make us better, is not that the problem, the problems are encounters you find, we shine when there are lot of enemies, we suck when there's only one, we suck when there are 2 enemies elites with tons of armor and hp. And we will always be like that compared to other classes, since we are specialized into AoE.
We are gear dependent, we start to work when we get a proper amount of power, crit, and what ever. The problem is getting there.
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vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm sure most claiming to be doing a-OK at 60 as a GWF actually are part of a solid group that does these runs so they had a path to the gear that could make them competitive.
Not everyone came here with a group to run with the entire way. It's hard to get that slot especially when every group wants double cleric and the game is awash with level 60 CWs and TRs. The masses don't want to bother figuring out how to play the game with a diverse group. Toss everything off of ledges.
And anyone is tanking in double astral shield.
Stop coming here and talking down to people having legitimate issues when you got carried to your gear.
I'm sure most claiming to be doing a-OK at 60 as a GWF actually are part of a solid group that does these runs so they had a path to the gear that could make them competitive.
Not everyone came here with a group to run with the entire way. It's hard to get that slot especially when every group wants double cleric and the game is awash with level 60 CWs and TRs. The masses don't want to bother figuring out how to play the game with a diverse group. Toss everything off of ledges.
And anyone is tanking in double astral shield.
Stop coming here and talking down to people having legitimate issues when you got carried to your gear.
i like the excuses that rogues are pure damage and have no survivability, and that's why GWFs who supposedly have survivability should not deal rogue-like damage.
When a class starts to solo something supposed to be done in group -> means it's Overpowered. Plain and simple. It's not just a matter of skill and gear, it really means it's OP. On DDO there have been lots of example like this, probably on other games as well.
well since gear gives you stats, and Boss have stats too, at some point it's possible that you become stronger than a boss.
Add it to the fact that there are no deep-mechanics in the game and you can solo it.
But considering that the game is still in open beta, and it's less than a mount that people play it, if someone can already solo a boss, think what happens in 6 mounts, when they'll ad more gear to the game, and probably players will have 15k+ GS.
well since gear gives you stats, and Boss have stats too, at some point it's possible that you become stronger than a boss.
Add it to the fact that there are no deep-mechanics in the game and you can solo it.
But considering that the game is still in open beta, and it's less than a mount that people play it, if someone can already solo a boss, think what happens in 6 mounts, when they'll ad more gear to the game, and probably players will have 15k+ GS.
When a class starts to solo something supposed to be done in group -> means it's Overpowered. Plain and simple. It's not just a matter of skill and gear, it really means it's OP. On DDO there have been lots of example like this, probably on other games as well.
to me the problem is beyond the soloing an epic dungeon by a rogue, GWF damage was nerfed on the excuse they are defenders(or leveling too fast and not drinking enough pots, had to fix the Great Potion Drinker lol) but they are worse than ALL other classes regarding damage,survivability (staying alive not to be confused with defensive stats), utility and control. which made me realize that even if they buff the GWF big time across the board the class will still suffer from bad design.
I would like to see the guardian fighter get a line of buffs that would make the area around them difficult terrain, thus slowing the mobs movement and recovery from knockdowns. Have party members take less damage around them, akin to +ac buffs. Also give them a debuff with their attacks that would boost damage done to the target they are attacking. That's just off the top of my head. I can't say I have played the class, but having played with them my experience is that they really don't take damage when they don't want to. So I honestly feel they should just bring a lot of party buffs to the group to make them more wanted.
Having played a gwf I guess what I would like to see done would be a slight damage buff so that I can do more then twiddle my thumbs at elite mobs. I would like some group utility, something like an encounter that would knock everything around me prone, do acceptable damage, and generate threat. Also having more then 1 good daily for dungeon runs would be nice. I think the key thing is utility though, I would like to feel that when I am in a dungeon my role is more then just standing there spamming my wms, and encounters on cooldown, hoping I am absorbing the damage so that my cleric and wizard aren't.
Even though in my opinion I feel like we are getting the short end of a very big stick I will stand by this class, playing a melee class is what I have always done, and will continue to do. I can't enjoy standing at a distance waving my hands in the air to make light effects happen. I want to get close and personal, really enjoy taking them apart, piece by piece, emerging victoriously from the carnage covered in blood, sweat, maybe a fancy new scar and a great story to go along with it. Sure I could do the same with a rogue, but the trickery is not for me my friend. I want my sword and shield, a giant 2 handed weapon of despair, or a wicked entangling chain that you won't escape from.
I'm wondering why people think that Great Weapon Fighters need a buff to begin with. Is it because you as a Great Weapon fighter are not topping the charts in dungeons and Player vs Player? Seriously, did you think rolling a hybrid class would make it so that you did one thing well? A Great Weapon Fighter is a hybrid class. Meaning that it does multiple things, but none of them really well. A Great Weapon Fighter deals damage in an Area of Effect format, a Great Weapon Fighter, has Crowd Control abilities, a Great Weapon Fighter has Tanking skills, but their skills are no where near as close to the primary characters that do these things well. You're not supposed to do these things well. You, as a Great Weapon Fighter are a jack of all trades, but a master of none. If you abandon one thing in pursuit of another, then your build will falter.
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
You do realize that GWF is the only class in the game not a hybred class?
CW - DPS/Control
TR - DPS/Control
DC - Heal/DPS/Tank
GW - DPS/Tank
GWF only and only DPS that is all they got.
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wolfenhowlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited May 2013
Im so sick about not getting any groups going for T2.Not getting invited,either getting kicked when Im not the leader(guess lucky for me I get leader most of the time) or people leaving or not getting a good composition or just out right people hating on me just because Im a gwf and on and on.And no I do not want to get into a guild JUST to do run content,wait for people,them waiting on me or being a burden all together eventually.
For an aoe focused class our encounter aoe dont seem to hit for amazing amounts nor are they really large in radius.Also find it hilarious that our roar seems to push mobs like 2 meters backs while a CW can just play force push ping-pong with their targets.
Our single target encounters need to be stacked very specifically to hit for good amounts(WMS debuff + unstoppable).The only really good one is IBS if you can find enemies standing in a straight line then it becomes truly amazing.
Our shift ability is complete bull****.And you can see this mostly in pvp where other classes can completely negate your encounters fully or even a freaking daily while we have to take everything in the gibbles with our 'amazing' sprint that doesnt give you anything else but a little more control.And it travels a lot less then other dodging maneuvers as well.
And our attack animations are so so slow you can see them from a mile way in pvp and dodge them without the slightest difficulty.It gets even more annoying when they dodge your initial knockdown then just walk way...walk way so they can get their cds back up since you go nothing to make them stand still.
But even so if you can get ahead of the curve people still wont take you because damage is nearly not enough if it only works in specific situations.I rerolled a CW(and rogue) and now playing it so I have something to do till they either fix the situation or they get out ranger/warlock.And I love it,the versatility is amazing but I doubt Ill make it my main too much of a die hard warrior you see...
Well, I finally swallowed up my pride ( more like stubbornness), stopped playing my GWF at lvl 16(dont hate on my for being low lvl, I dont have the time to play as I once had) and rolled a rogue. And basically it was one big WTF experience from the moment of character creation thru the tutorials and to blacklake where im at atm. Its truly marvelous how much better the TR is than the GWF in anything. Not even one potion used on the rogue yet, he doesnt need to sneak, he charges into the middle of a mob and mops it down before they can even start hitting me as opposed my GWF chargin in only to need to pop potions when the big enforcer lives thru everything I unload... **** that's some BS. The TR being tougher than the GWF, pure BS. That being said I still prefer my 2h weapon. Hope they fix it soon
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
only diffrence is that im doing it at lvl55 and he at lvl32......
Unless i spec sentinel of course which is what i'm running now since i'm not getting groups anyway. This is with 8600 GS by the way
u heard the lead designer Paul Velasquez: everything is as intended only the FEEL about the class is wrong
so there is no reason to panic, GWF will sure be underdog for another 4months (imo)
better invest time in other character or even other game that actually can do class balance
Lol, dude. Did you actually read his well written post or just fire away? Cobearz is so right in that post. We are irrelevant to end game content due to the design of the devs. It's not about the damage meters.
Something needs to be done to make this class desired in end game delves.
Extinction - GWF
either u meet premade of tr/cw and one cd or 5dc
u can ofc try the stunlock build but if the one part dont crit u left there to die basicly to any1
and tr or cw fanboys wont admit that theyre class is better than GWF. they simply tell u L2P/GWF super strong.....
lol pathetic kids
as long as adds are being thrown out of cliffs by CWs u dont need aoedmg dealer.
only hope is to either increase solo dmg and make gwf practicaly TR only with 2h and different armor or improve/add CC abilities to compensate CW
The GWF... yeah....
GWF single target dmg is rolftastic - I mean it's that bad - esp compared to my rogue spamming its lvl 1 at-will. Even my control oriented wizard spamming its lvl 1 at-will surpasses my GWF by a wide margin (not to mention that it's far easier to stay on target and build up better damage). AOE wise the GWF seems almost the same as my rogue, as the rogue can take down a pack of mobs 1 at a time just as fast, but seems to fall behind the CW. The CW at this level seems to do better AOE and single target dps than the GWF, which is a shame as it's control oriented, unlike the dps-focus of my GWF.
In addition, the GWF feels like a one-trick pony, because without the slam daily I would probably be too embarrassed to bring him to a dungeon lol.
After having experienced these results in game, I then came to the forums to hear tell what others had experienced. To learn that the GWF had been roflstomped nerfed prior to Open Beta made perfect sense to me. Anyone who plays ALL the classes can easily discover this (excepting the devs apparently lol).
The GWF has a few things going for it tho - it's armor and animations look **** cool and feel fun - and it's melee gameplay is quite fun. But it def needs a buff...esp a single target damage buff at lower lvls.
GWF mobility is also <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor compared to the other classes (not the guard), and could use a buff - again speaking of low levels.
Agree with allot said in this thread but the mobility is actually the best of any class, i just think allot of people don't play it well with shift to enable sprint but with double tap. When you double tap you destroy the best part which is the fact you can manage Stamina much better with GWF then with other classes. Need to move a few steps to avoid a red circle? ok nps and very little stamina used. Need to move to the other side of the bossroom to dps down the big add? ok just press shift and you are there faster then any other class. no stopping in between etc.
Single target dps is so poor its not even funny and until lvl 30 thats all you got! Terrible design. Don't get started about the get hit and wait wile i power up skill. If you use that you will be using much more pots then needed
The only thing i like about GWF is that it makes me a better player, just can't afford to slack on that one.
A Great weapon fighter at level 10 becomes practically indomitable, able to inflict enormous amounts of damage faster to single and multiple targets alike. Knowing when to pop your determination is pivotal in the classes use, but also not being afraid to use it all the time is key to it as well.
And yes, Great weapon fighters are a hybrid class, they feature mechanics like a pair of mass taunts, critical strike buffs, aoe damage, and a feat that increases your damage based on your defense in the heroic tree. If you can utilize these skills properly by stacking the appropriate stats you can truly become indomitable.
As a great weapon fighter, you should consider taking a look at the weapons that the developers have put in game, such as the Greataxe of Anger, and the Greatsword of Kings. These weapons favor one stat that no other readily available weapon does - life steal. That's right, if you hope to be an effective Great Weapon fighter, utilizing life steal and armor penetration are going to be your bread and butter, as well as not being afraid to use your determination at half full. There's also the fact that because great weapon fighters build up AP at an incredible rate of speed, you should be using those skills far more often than anyone else, especially Slam.
As for below level 10 skills? Sure Strike, Reaping Strike, and Restoring Strike will become skills that you will use even in late game, often. I still use Sure Strike at level 60, and Restoring Strike when I feel the need to gain extra healing when bossing. Admittedly Reaping strike is a skill that is difficult to master, but saying that it's useless is far from the truth.
As for Sprint? If you haven't figured out that using sprint and Restoring strike together allows you to sprint a great deal more, then you likely did not read the skill descriptor. At level 10, when you gain the ability to utilize Determination and Sprint together, you will realize that you no longer need to run out of massive aoe attacks unleashed by bosses.
Knowing where you need to be in combat is also important, as Great Weapon Fighters should almost never be standing in front of a Big Bad.
Now... To give some agreement to the others:
I do agree that a Great Weapon Fighter does "Come into it's own" at level 20, gaining skills like Wicked Strike and Roar, allowing for more constant Aoe damage, and quicker Determination generation. I will also agree that some skills that the Great Weapon Fighter utilizes are quite simply put, lame (Not so Fast, Mighty Leap, Bravery), and would be better suited to a Guardian Fighter, but saying that a Great Weapon fighter needs a buff is far from the truth.
Maybe I'm bias, and I have been running with poor examples of Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters and Trickster rogues. Maybe I've seen something in this that others can't in this class, or maybe it's because at level 22 I did 1,000 less damage than a level 35 Trickster Rogue in The Cloak Tower, had 16 fewer kills than he did, and came in first place in Immovable Object over a level 30 Guardian fighter in the same instance.
Or maybe I'm doing something different with this class, and it's working.
again. lvlign doesnt matter. what matter is what u can do at 60. and GWF cant do anything.
so thats about it. enxt time u can save time writing uber-long and pointless posts
I agree with point 1 which relates to point 2. If I'm going to be locked down into turret mode while doing damage then the damage needs to be worth while. Locking me down whilst simultaneously nerfing my damage doesn't follow in my mind.
As far as point 3, I think you're out of your mind. Sprint, as is, is completely awesome and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I, however, would like to see a regen buff attached to strength's contribution. Either that or revert our feat discount back to 25% from it's current 15% which it was nerfed to.
I did fine in lower level skirmish and dungeons too, that's not the issue though
The main issue right now is that the end game dungeon mechanics makes GWF completely unwanted because CW can instagib adds and bring better control and dps to the table. Add to that how people are abusing astral shield stacking instead of bringing a tank and our hybridness becomes completely pointless. Well that and the fact we can't hold threat anyway
When GWF (and GF) are instantly kicked from pugs simply because of our class something is clearly wrong. There is really no point in stating our class is fine when all signs points to it's not. No one wants us in their pugs and who can blame them honestly? 2 DC, 2 CW and 1 TR and it's smooth sailing. That's flawed design
enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hobNr4zPMkE&feature=youtu.be
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
TR's and CW's have the highest dmg mitigation in the game......That is even vs a cleric
This is watching things with a tunnel vision IMOH. I have nothing against you in particular but GWF for now has many problems, thinking that since he is " hybrid " is not a way to justify them.
I don't mind being in the first position of dungeon charts, or pvp charts, i actually mind on BEING ABLE TO JOIN A DUNGEON GRP, without being excluded because, TR can do better dps on single target, CW have CCs, and we don't have anything useful or at least seen as useful by other players.
You can tell them " i lower enemies defense by 45% " and they don't even care, since picking 1 guy TR or CW already makes the party do more damage than picking you.
The biggest problem of GWF is that is a super gear dependent class, and they do their best when you have lot of enemies on screen.
Even if they improve our single target skills , we don't work properly anyway. Single target is not our role, we have no sustained damage, we can burst but not keep it going.
And with gear dependent comes the biggest problem, somebody of us have been able to play in party with his friend most of the time, if you have friends to play with you can be carried by them to high end dungeon like CN and others, and you can get gear, drops to sell and than you reach your GS mark, over 10k at that point you can do fine in groups, and other player feel like you are useful somehow because they see that 10k gs -.-
If you don't have mates to play with , and for example you are in a big guild with many CW TR nobody will let you party with them, you may reach 9000k gs somehow, from that point it's a pain in the a@@.
At that point what you try? Pugs? You don't even try in public chat to ask for party, since nobody will invite you as a GWF.
So you queue, you wait time to find a party, than you join one, than what? no cleric? rinse repeat.
It always takes at least 20 min just to find a party to start a dungeon. 20 min if you look for lair of pirate king which is the most farmed. If you try other it may take more. And consider that going with pugs is like a gamble since you don't know how good are the other players.... you may not even end the dungeon run.
So while you loose time trying to get in a dungeon, other players with other classes keep having easy access to dungeons, keep improve they GS, keep earning AD from selling drops to the AH, at some point the gap between you and them will be more than 1.5k, and they consider you even less than before.
I don't think that buffing some skills will actually make us better, is not that the problem, the problems are encounters you find, we shine when there are lot of enemies, we suck when there's only one, we suck when there are 2 enemies elites with tons of armor and hp. And we will always be like that compared to other classes, since we are specialized into AoE.
We are gear dependent, we start to work when we get a proper amount of power, crit, and what ever. The problem is getting there.
Not everyone came here with a group to run with the entire way. It's hard to get that slot especially when every group wants double cleric and the game is awash with level 60 CWs and TRs. The masses don't want to bother figuring out how to play the game with a diverse group. Toss everything off of ledges.
And anyone is tanking in double astral shield.
Stop coming here and talking down to people having legitimate issues when you got carried to your gear.
-fix throwing mobs of cliffs-
There you go quick fix for GF/GWF to enter dungeons and enjoy teamplay...
i totally agree
Add it to the fact that there are no deep-mechanics in the game and you can solo it.
But considering that the game is still in open beta, and it's less than a mount that people play it, if someone can already solo a boss, think what happens in 6 mounts, when they'll ad more gear to the game, and probably players will have 15k+ GS.
6 mounts? I giggled
to me the problem is beyond the soloing an epic dungeon by a rogue, GWF damage was nerfed on the excuse they are defenders(or leveling too fast and not drinking enough pots, had to fix the Great Potion Drinker lol) but they are worse than ALL other classes regarding damage,survivability (staying alive not to be confused with defensive stats), utility and control. which made me realize that even if they buff the GWF big time across the board the class will still suffer from bad design.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Having played a gwf I guess what I would like to see done would be a slight damage buff so that I can do more then twiddle my thumbs at elite mobs. I would like some group utility, something like an encounter that would knock everything around me prone, do acceptable damage, and generate threat. Also having more then 1 good daily for dungeon runs would be nice. I think the key thing is utility though, I would like to feel that when I am in a dungeon my role is more then just standing there spamming my wms, and encounters on cooldown, hoping I am absorbing the damage so that my cleric and wizard aren't.
Even though in my opinion I feel like we are getting the short end of a very big stick I will stand by this class, playing a melee class is what I have always done, and will continue to do. I can't enjoy standing at a distance waving my hands in the air to make light effects happen. I want to get close and personal, really enjoy taking them apart, piece by piece, emerging victoriously from the carnage covered in blood, sweat, maybe a fancy new scar and a great story to go along with it. Sure I could do the same with a rogue, but the trickery is not for me my friend. I want my sword and shield, a giant 2 handed weapon of despair, or a wicked entangling chain that you won't escape from.
-Talvos
Forever a proud fighter
You do realize that GWF is the only class in the game not a hybred class?
CW - DPS/Control
TR - DPS/Control
DC - Heal/DPS/Tank
GW - DPS/Tank
GWF only and only DPS that is all they got.
For an aoe focused class our encounter aoe dont seem to hit for amazing amounts nor are they really large in radius.Also find it hilarious that our roar seems to push mobs like 2 meters backs while a CW can just play force push ping-pong with their targets.
Our single target encounters need to be stacked very specifically to hit for good amounts(WMS debuff + unstoppable).The only really good one is IBS if you can find enemies standing in a straight line then it becomes truly amazing.
Our shift ability is complete bull****.And you can see this mostly in pvp where other classes can completely negate your encounters fully or even a freaking daily while we have to take everything in the gibbles with our 'amazing' sprint that doesnt give you anything else but a little more control.And it travels a lot less then other dodging maneuvers as well.
And our attack animations are so so slow you can see them from a mile way in pvp and dodge them without the slightest difficulty.It gets even more annoying when they dodge your initial knockdown then just walk way...walk way so they can get their cds back up since you go nothing to make them stand still.
But even so if you can get ahead of the curve people still wont take you because damage is nearly not enough if it only works in specific situations.I rerolled a CW(and rogue) and now playing it so I have something to do till they either fix the situation or they get out ranger/warlock.And I love it,the versatility is amazing but I doubt Ill make it my main too much of a die hard warrior you see...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.