test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Class Forums›
Does GWF truley need a buff? Or are we perfectly fine? PvE Talk.
cobearzgwfman
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
Hello, I am Cobearz from Mindflayer, this is my first post on these forums.
I am 10.4k GS and strong PvE and semi PvP player.
PvE Situation: As of right now I feel like the GWF can keep up on the dps charts only when theirs more then 5+ mobs though. GWF is mainly AOE (duh) and with the Wicked Strike/Slam spec I have I can dominate DPS charts, but when it comes to single target any CW or TR can destroy me.
I heard before the game went open beta GWF took a big hit (nerf) and this might seem why their damage is silly. My believes on the GWF is yes, they should be the masters of AOE they should be top because most of their abilities revolve around AOE, so please understand me when I say this again, AOE wise this class is fine.
Its the single target dps that is lacking big time, now sense they are not single target masters I don't believe any GWF should just be top dps when it comes to single target. TR rogue honestly should be top single target damage dealer as they have more single target abilities.
While GWF is great at AOE damage unfortunately people look down upon them, and let me give you some examples.
Castle Never - Hardest Dungeon as of now. Do you want to know what my experiences are joining this in a random group? /kick.
Why? Its obviously not my GS because I meet the requirements of 9.3k GS when im 10.4k. Its simple really...
GWF is not needed in this hard dungeon because CW, TR, Cleric can easily defeat the dungeon without a GWF or even a tank.
This happens in other dungeons as well.
Other classes besides GF are more viable, they pull more dps, most of all they can do minor things to help the battle go smoother. While me, I just AOE everything down, but why do that when CW can push everything off the ledge?
It makes my class pointless in some of the end content.
Remember its not about being top, its about doing you're role. Control Wizard = Controls the battlefield, Cleric = Keeping the fighters alive and cleansed, GF = Tank and support, TR = Sneaky strong burst, and GWF = Massive 2h AOE.
What I am asking, for the sake of GWF please look into ways to make our classes just a tiny bit stronger. That's all...I mean single target or AOE buff I don't care do something. Maybe a 3% or 5% plus damage overall..
We will not be viable until something better comes out of our class though for end game content.
Please give feedback as in why you think GWF is great or needs a slight buff.
-Cobearz
I am 10.4k GS and strong PvE and semi PvP player.
PvE Situation: As of right now I feel like the GWF can keep up on the dps charts only when theirs more then 5+ mobs though. GWF is mainly AOE (duh) and with the Wicked Strike/Slam spec I have I can dominate DPS charts, but when it comes to single target any CW or TR can destroy me.
I heard before the game went open beta GWF took a big hit (nerf) and this might seem why their damage is silly. My believes on the GWF is yes, they should be the masters of AOE they should be top because most of their abilities revolve around AOE, so please understand me when I say this again, AOE wise this class is fine.
Its the single target dps that is lacking big time, now sense they are not single target masters I don't believe any GWF should just be top dps when it comes to single target. TR rogue honestly should be top single target damage dealer as they have more single target abilities.
While GWF is great at AOE damage unfortunately people look down upon them, and let me give you some examples.
Castle Never - Hardest Dungeon as of now. Do you want to know what my experiences are joining this in a random group? /kick.
Why? Its obviously not my GS because I meet the requirements of 9.3k GS when im 10.4k. Its simple really...
GWF is not needed in this hard dungeon because CW, TR, Cleric can easily defeat the dungeon without a GWF or even a tank.
This happens in other dungeons as well.
Other classes besides GF are more viable, they pull more dps, most of all they can do minor things to help the battle go smoother. While me, I just AOE everything down, but why do that when CW can push everything off the ledge?
It makes my class pointless in some of the end content.
Remember its not about being top, its about doing you're role. Control Wizard = Controls the battlefield, Cleric = Keeping the fighters alive and cleansed, GF = Tank and support, TR = Sneaky strong burst, and GWF = Massive 2h AOE.
What I am asking, for the sake of GWF please look into ways to make our classes just a tiny bit stronger. That's all...I mean single target or AOE buff I don't care do something. Maybe a 3% or 5% plus damage overall..
We will not be viable until something better comes out of our class though for end game content.
Please give feedback as in why you think GWF is great or needs a slight buff.
-Cobearz
Post edited by cobearzgwfman on
0
Comments
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
1. a slight increase in all of our abilities damage, mainly Weapon Master Strike, Not So Fast, Sure Strike.
2. There needs to be some increase on our abilities cast animation, our mobility compared to other classes is far lacking. You pretty much need to be at a standstill in order to do your abilities. Weapon Master Strike Mainly and Sure Strike.
3. Sprint is a terrible and I MEAN TERRIBLE, ability. In my opinion, they need to change this to the rest of the classes by making it a short leap or a charge and the same recharging time as of other classes, that can also dodge much like Trickster Rogue and Control Wizard.
Next time you should read my post a bit more carefully, as I stated everyone has their roles and GWF is mainly AOE dps. I stated that we shouldn't be top on the dps. Its the fact when we are far off dps people won't ever need a GWF in PvE at all for end game content, which is a problem.
Its the whole fact that we need a TINY boost, we need to be able to have a chance to atleast even do end game content, do you think this would be fair to make only 3 classes viable for end game content while the other two aren't? That's currently what its turning into, explains why their are more CW, TR, and Clerics then any other class atm.
Like I said man, not wanting to be top dog, just have a chance.
He/she get's kicked from grp just because he plays a class which is not needed - yeah sounds great.
Btw. who says gwf is a hybrid? It's a dd class as it stands right now.
With many changes maybe it can become a Tank as well. (If Tanks will be needed some day.)
(Brokensaint you have no clue what ur talking about)
I am lvling a Gwf atm and the most problems i have is singletarget damage. Its almost a joke. so if you asked me the devs should buf the single target skill to be a bit reasonable (+40% or something). There Aoe is ok. Maybe some unique bufs to the group would be nice to.
edit: 40% is still a joke when i think about it. 100% buff to the single target would be a bit better. Still not on par with rogues for milles, but at least more enjoyable if you solo
Nerf TR/CW? Yes.
This could work as well but instead of doing 2 jobs why not just do 1 and buff you know?
I really want to resolve the GWF problem and hopefully help them get back on their feet and be wanted just as much as a TR or CW.
Please keep in contact with the post and lets hope Cryptic will see it.
Have a good day you guys.
-Cobearz
I think you are misunderstanding something about the class, it is primarily a dps class which has a secondary role it can fallback to as a "tank", much like the WC who is a primary controller class and a dps as a secondary, and it does not much sound much like you have played the GWF yet.
But if the class cannot be justified being called a dps because it's worse at it's role then there is tweaks that needs to be made, wether they are on the other classes or the GWF to bring them closer to each other, and before you think i'm saying "i want to top the charts of dps/healing/cooking/smithing/etc" while it does sound fun, i would actually prefer to be viable for end game content so i can play the class i choose instead of rolling the "viable" classes.
You may know, or you may not know, that the GWF was severely nerfed from the closed beta and it is suffering from it, so it is in a odd position of not being well balanced right now, just look at the early levels of the class.
i think you jumped the gun when you reply'ed to the OP considering the way you answered.
I urge you to read a specific part of the text again - as a direct quote from the wiki; This class relies on brute strength alone to overcome the enemies. They are warriors who sacrifice shields in favor of large two-handed weapons. While mainly being an offensive class, Great Weapon Fighters still have considerable defense by carrying scale armour.
And as the class role also says; Damage Dealer/Secondary Defender.
You can still call it a hybrid, but it is as much a hybrid as the CW is controller/dps which both jobs it does very well while also having the luxury of being ranged, the GWF's luxury is it's tougher armor so it can play a little more reckless, but it is no where close to a tank, we can maybe hold some enemies for a short while, but we cannot hope to do so for long without a good amount of help from the cleric since we don't have any way of completely evading the damage with ability's such as block/dodge, we have our Unstoppable but it does not remove the damage entirely, it gives us enough time to mitigate some of the damage and speed enough to use all our encounters and lay a good amount of damage on the enemy, so as when the indomitable runs out, the off tanking is no longer needed as the target is severely crippled or dead ( i do not mean that the GWF should be able to nuke any targets from 100->0).
Now i think the original question was, should it have a buff? maybe not a direct buff, i think they would have better luck with tweaking it for starters, remove some of the AoE damage to the single target damage; defence to offence etc.
Very good post Cobearz,
I am also quite high gear score at about 11,500 and now that we are moving past the infancy of running end game content I see where the GWF is sorely lacking as well. You really did hit the nail on the head in your post on a number of things.
Firstly you are right about our aoe potential with regards to it being adequate but its truly not necessary. Cleric, rogue wizard do it far better. GF is not required but is still somewhat useful as it can do better as a third wheel then GWF. What would put the GWF back on the map at least some is if the knock back from roar was a major knock back and not just a small one as it is now. The higher part of tier 2 and castle never are not about aoe dps it's about cleric circles and knocking things off ledges while rogue dps's. The GWF is made useless in the direction the devs have designed the dungeons. The only other way GWF would be truly relevant is if we could aoe down the add fest that is end game equal to or near equal to the efficiency in which wizards can knock them off ledges; that or we need to be near equal with our own ability to knock things off ledges.
Given that everyone would scream murder if we could dps the adds hps down as quickly as the wizards can knock them off the dps required to do this is not going to happen. The only other thing I can see is a new daily maybe called whirlwind strike. It would have to be something like when hitting 3 or more enemies with this strike there is an xx chance the enemy straight up dies.
As it stands now straight damage to adds is not sufficient to make this class relevant at end game. We need roars pushback to be buffed or an aoe insta kill to become possibly interesting. As it stands now GWF does not bring anything to a high tier dungeon or end game dungeon that makes the group not want to go /kick. If you get a spot in a high tier dungeon group consider it charity as your spot could have been replaced by any other class and if they knew what they were doing they would be far more useful to the completion of the content.
That's the truth.
Extinction - GWF
1. if the GWF had a resonable 80-90%(currently it's about 25-30%) of TRs single target dps you would consistently see GWFs doing 5x
the damage of TRs. cryptic probably saw that and assumed that meant GWF op, rather than content being an aoe zerg fest.
2. both TRs and CWs have more survivability via better CC,
ON DEMAND AVOIDANCE,
ranged attacks, single target burst (dead enemies do 0 dmg)...
but like i said before you can always be a good fan boy and claim cryptic can do no wrong, make a video of pvp moments where the GWF looks decent, and post end of runs dmg tables where GWF did more dmg than the rogue (which is still possible if your team is bunching up 5+ mobs most of the time). does that mean its balanced? far from it.
reverting the nerfs from BW4 is the VERY least, while a decent buff is worked.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Honestly the CW is so many millions of damage ahead of the GWF it's not even a comparison. The numbers are just hidden, imagine if the game kept track of the damage the control wizard did by pushing things off ledges and one shoting them when they die off the ledge. The game should credit the control wizard that damage to really show how far behind we actually are.
We need a daily insta kill that doesn't add to our damage totals in dungeons that just kills all enemies if you hit over a certain number at the same time. That or roar needs to push enemies off the ledge with the same efficiency as a control wizard. If neither of these things happen GWF is useless and will remain so unless the devs completely remake high tier end game content.
Extinction - GWF
Some of our skills are so useless it's not even funny though, if they doubled the damage on not so fast for example - It would almost be attractive to use.
It is possible for us to out damage CW's in raw AoE but the margin isn't big enough to warrant bringing a GWF, another CW has more utlility(Singularity) and most CW's enjoy using Repel to KB all the mobs for action point gain which another CW will have no problem with.
If we do receive buffs it has to be done surgically, just touch up the astonishing weak points to a reasonable level and we'll be fine. No doubt they've received a wealth of feedback as the Lead Designer mentioned they were looking into GWF's.
i wait for warlock to ,gwf now just earn me ad to can gear up warlock
I think the best way to bring this class into balance with other classes would be by adding stacking debuffs to our basic attacks. This way the more we hit a single target, the more damage we can deal. This would not increase our burst damage, or put us into a rogue type dps output. However, it would allow us to contribute to taking down bosses and intermediate foes by increasing our sustained damage. I think they have already tried to do this to some extent with the Weapon Master passive, but that skill does not seem to have much effect on in my experience. Especially since I have not toyed with stacking crit. I have been building Power/Armor Pen/Defense with some crit and movement sprinkled in for good measure. (I love the sprint mechanic btw)
So, do you think a stacking debuff would work? Am I making a mistake building AP instead of Crit, or another stat?
Halnerd
The damage stacking buff you propose would have to be so high to be useful that the rest of the classes would complain that our numbers are too high.
You are right though, that is one of a couple ways the class could at least be of some interest in running challenging content. My previous posts in this thread have some other ideas as well.
Extinction - GWF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCtuZ-fDL2E
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
That is one of my proposed changes as well. For sure one of the easier ways to quickly make GWF useful. Pull a group in close to ledge, roar them off the ledge.
Is this cheesy tactics and mediocre end game design? That's a question for another thread.
Extinction - GWF
Daily Buff Ideas: Allow us to use 2 daily powers at once (This would be unique for a GWF to have), Daily Power can come back faster without ridiculous amount of recovery.
Just some ideas, its not easy to think of balanced things at work. lol
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
My experience is somewhat similar. Single target DPS is frustrating, and largely depends on the buildup you get from repeated attacks, but there's so many knockbacks and red circles that it's difficult to stay in melee consistently enough to get the buff.
But my experience is that both solo instance boss fights and group instances are full of low hP minions to gather and spinjitsu down. Pulling them off the healer pet is sometimes a challenge. You're an offtank; you're the tank in charge of wrangling adds, and there are adds just about everywhere I've seen so far.
* Build determination from hitting, not being hit.
* Normal damage swings in unstoppable mode, instead of less.
* same damage no matter how many targets hit, not less with each.
P.s stat-scaling feels a bit wonky as well.
other than these i'm pretty content.
Get the GWF buffed with the power of qq!
-Cobearz
I think people spend too much time looking at the DPS charts without the realization that what they bring to a party in the current state of the game is very limited in regards to group benefit and utility. I don't feel we need a huge leap in DPS, although our single target could seriously stand to be improved... Sure Strike is a joke. What we could use to start would be some kind of group buff. The Sentinel tree could be good for that, because it seriously needs some work and added benefit.
Regardless, the class needs a serious look. The devs seemed to care a lot about CW feedback when the class was introduced in BW2, but they didn't strike up a conversation concerning GWF feedback in BW3 so I'm not all that hopeful we'll see changes any time in the near future.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
i would change sentinel's aegis to +40%(90% total) deflection severity and reflects 25%(22,5% of total) of deflected damage to a random target within 10', if there is any.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Or how about more? How bout you reward us for doing what we're supposed to do instead of penalizing us......