yesterday I noticed with the best gear (except weapon enchant is Normal rank) in the game and hitting all stat soft caps, Weapon master's Strike at-will barely out damages the troll regen in FH. If we are to be add killers something needs to be done. I do decent damage but if we can't burn down a wave of adds before the next wave arrives and exceeds our target cap then groups will find other methods of dealing with them. I am not saying we need more damage but we need to interact more favorably with the game mechanics. The Trolls could suspend regen while taking damage for example and have less HP. With the diminshed damage over multiple targets at 5 trolls I can barely keep them even. My GS is 13.7k for reference.
Remove cap of 5, change to 10/unlimited remove decreased damage per additional target. This would be my preference not necessarily what they need.
0
nexdineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Yeah I too think the GWF is so underwhelmingly liked for Epics is simply that the other classes bring the exploits or near-exploits.
Doing the boss fight in CN now all you hear is "Without two CW's spamming the singularities and pushes, don't even bother". Well, once you mandate two CW's, there literally is nowhere to put a GWF. You must have at least one DC, you want some TR in there to do damage and you probably want a GF to peel stuff off the DC. Where are you putting the GWF?
Yeah, you got it, back in the Enclave going "GWF LFG CN... anyone? ... anyone?"
Yeah I too think the GWF is so underwhelmingly liked for Epics is simply that the other classes bring the exploits or near-exploits.
Doing the boss fight in CN now all you hear is "Without two CW's spamming the singularities and pushes, don't even bother". Well, once you mandate two CW's, there literally is nowhere to put a GWF. You must have at least one DC, you want some TR in there to do damage and you probably want a GF to peel stuff off the DC. Where are you putting the GWF?
Yeah, you got it, back in the Enclave going "GWF LFG CN... anyone? ... anyone?"
The three possible paths to "fix" the class there would be to either improve their aggro management so they replace the GF, improve their DPS to replace the TR, or give more of their abilities "push" or CC effects to replace the CW.
Idealy, those three options would be granted by each of the three paths for the class, making the GWF a truly hybrid option.
The three possible paths to "fix" the class there would be to either improve their aggro management so they replace the GF, improve their DPS to replace the TR, or give more of their abilities "push" or CC effects to replace the CW.
Idealy, those three options would be granted by each of the three paths for the class, making the GWF a truly hybrid option.
Replacing any class is not how you make hybrids...
The game does not win by suddenly making 4 gwf 1 dc groups desirable.
There are 5 classes and 5 group spots right now. How hard can it be to give the GWF a niche?
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
0
elpaleniozord01Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited July 2013
Replacing class wont solve any problem, will only bring more QQ if anything.
GWFs should be versatile, able to take on any role in party at the cost of inferior performance, atm GWF simply cannot fulfill any job at all.
Imo they should give GWF option to specialize into single role via paragon paths. Instigator for CC, Destroyer for DPS, Sentinel for Tank, slightly worse than given class at it but comparable.
Replacing any class is not how you make hybrids...
The game does not win by suddenly making 4 gwf 1 dc groups desirable.
There are 5 classes and 5 group spots right now. How hard can it be to give the GWF a niche?
When it does every task worse than any other class, it will never have a niche.
Pushing things off edges should probably just go away, but even if it does, CWs are better at AoE than we are. No target cap+range+very excellent CC versus a target cap+stuck in melee range to deal any damage+no CC at all. That choice is clear.
For GWFs to really be wanted, after cliff pushing goes away and adds and trash mob HP goes down I mean, the damage has got to go up. GWFs will have to become add destroyers, as in extremely fast trash/add kill speeds. Right now you don't kill anything that isn't a non-instance non elite trash mob fast. Once anything has anything more than the absolute base amount of health, it has to be hit over and over and over again to see it's health start to go down. But you place several of those mobs together so you can really work to your class strength and suddenly...THEY DIE EVEN SLOWER! And if you get too many together, some of them don't even start to die!
1: Sprint needs a very short 'dodge' timer when you first activate it. So when you first hit it, for the first 0.25 or maybe even 0.50 of a second, the game treats it as if you were dodging. This keeps the unique movement of the class while making it not a negative.
2: Damage. It needs to go up. Single target, both sure strike and the various encounters, and even crescendo, all need a boost. Not to rogue level, but to a level that rewards you for dealing with the very slow animation speeds which are supposed to signify how powerful the attacks are. Area of Effect damage needs to go up as well. A lot. Remove the target cap, and replace the multi target damage penalty with a multi target damage bonus. ALL AoE damage abilities need a significant damage boost. The At wills, the encounters, the dailies. All of them. No one can touch a Rogue in single target damage. No one can touch a CW in CC. No one can touch a DC in healing. No one should be able to even attempt to get near a GWF in AoE damage. And if that puts GWFs hilariously over the top in overall damage for dungeons, so be it. For the role this class is supposed to fit, if it deals the damage it needs to deal to actually be wanted for that role, it will outdamage everyone else by miles.
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
When it does every task worse than any other class, it will never have a niche.
Pushing things off edges should probably just go away, but even if it does, CWs are better at AoE than we are. No target cap+range+very excellent CC versus a target cap+stuck in melee range to deal any damage+no CC at all. That choice is clear.
For GWFs to really be wanted, after cliff pushing goes away and adds and trash mob HP goes down I mean, the damage has got to go up. GWFs will have to become add destroyers, as in extremely fast trash/add kill speeds. Right now you don't kill anything that isn't a non-instance non elite trash mob fast. Once anything has anything more than the absolute base amount of health, it has to be hit over and over and over again to see it's health start to go down. But you place several of those mobs together so you can really work to your class strength and suddenly...THEY DIE EVEN SLOWER! And if you get too many together, some of them don't even start to die!
1: Sprint needs a very short 'dodge' timer when you first activate it. So when you first hit it, for the first 0.25 or maybe even 0.50 of a second, the game treats it as if you were dodging. This keeps the unique movement of the class while making it not a negative.
2: Damage. It needs to go up. Single target, both sure strike and the various encounters, and even crescendo, all need a boost. Not to rogue level, but to a level that rewards you for dealing with the very slow animation speeds which are supposed to signify how powerful the attacks are. Area of Effect damage needs to go up as well. A lot. Remove the target cap, and replace the multi target damage penalty with a multi target damage bonus. ALL AoE damage abilities need a significant damage boost. The At wills, the encounters, the dailies. All of them. No one can touch a Rogue in single target damage. No one can touch a CW in CC. No one can touch a DC in healing. No one should be able to even attempt to get near a GWF in AoE damage. And if that puts GWFs hilariously over the top in overall damage for dungeons, so be it. For the role this class is supposed to fit, if it deals the damage it needs to deal to actually be wanted for that role, it will outdamage everyone else by miles.
We don't need more "single target damage", that's what TRs are for. GWFs need an over-all buff to at-wills across the board, single target, AND AoE (not to mention reaping strike needs a complete overhaul buff, it's so doo-doo). Currently, we have the lowest hitting at-wills while having the strongest weapon damage weapons... where's the common sense in that?
I really think the problem is content side. I can out dps a rogue during the course of a full dungeon but I cannot kill trash mobs without their help. small mobs like the archers in FH die but anything tougher than that seems to take forever and I am waiting for the rogue to finish them off. I would be perfectly happy tanking as my primary function but my aggro is not enough to grab mobs and the 5 target limit means things get loose and I really cant pick up more targets. I don't want more DPS but I think everyone feels that we need a more noticeable impact on the content in order to justify our place in a group.
Ideally if you want a GWF to be a hybrid then they should be able to out perform CWs on aoe in places where there are no ledges, collect and tank/kite adds while being less sturdy then a GF, and not be a complete embarrassment if they are they second dps on a boss while providing CA to the rogue.
If the ideal situation is 4 GWF and a DC? It is not a healthy game. "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of thing.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I really think the problem is content side. I can out dps a rogue during the course of a full dungeon but I cannot kill trash mobs without their help. small mobs like the archers in FH die but anything tougher than that seems to take forever and I am waiting for the rogue to finish them off. I would be perfectly happy tanking as my primary function but my aggro is not enough to grab mobs and the 5 target limit means things get loose and I really cant pick up more targets. I don't want more DPS but I think everyone feels that we need a more noticeable impact on the content in order to justify our place in a group.
DPS is exactly what we need. We have no place because we do so little damage we can't do our job. We play at doing AoE damage. Yes, you hit 5 things and your damage numbers go up, but you aren't DOING anything. You aren't actually killing anything in a timely manner.
DPS is exactly what we need. We have no place because we do so little damage we can't do our job. We play at doing AoE damage. Yes, you hit 5 things and your damage numbers go up, but you aren't DOING anything. You aren't actually killing anything in a timely manner.
Trash needs less hp and more damage. This way pvp is unaffected.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Trash needs less hp and more damage. This way pvp is unaffected.
Trash with less HP and more damage just makes CWs an even better choice over us. Ranged so they get hit less, their AoE is plenty powerful already. We have to be better at killing trash and adds than a second CW. Or nothing changes.
And PvP can park it's car in a lake and sit in it. It's broken beyond words, and deserves absolutely no concern when the core gameplay is in dire need of fixing. Fix the core gameplay, and then worry about the sideshow later.
Comments
Doing the boss fight in CN now all you hear is "Without two CW's spamming the singularities and pushes, don't even bother". Well, once you mandate two CW's, there literally is nowhere to put a GWF. You must have at least one DC, you want some TR in there to do damage and you probably want a GF to peel stuff off the DC. Where are you putting the GWF?
Yeah, you got it, back in the Enclave going "GWF LFG CN... anyone? ... anyone?"
The three possible paths to "fix" the class there would be to either improve their aggro management so they replace the GF, improve their DPS to replace the TR, or give more of their abilities "push" or CC effects to replace the CW.
Idealy, those three options would be granted by each of the three paths for the class, making the GWF a truly hybrid option.
Reduce boss add hp to levels that allow it to be aoed down OR thrown off edges in a similar time frame. Problem vanishes.
Replacing any class is not how you make hybrids...
The game does not win by suddenly making 4 gwf 1 dc groups desirable.
There are 5 classes and 5 group spots right now. How hard can it be to give the GWF a niche?
GWFs should be versatile, able to take on any role in party at the cost of inferior performance, atm GWF simply cannot fulfill any job at all.
Imo they should give GWF option to specialize into single role via paragon paths. Instigator for CC, Destroyer for DPS, Sentinel for Tank, slightly worse than given class at it but comparable.
When it does every task worse than any other class, it will never have a niche.
Pushing things off edges should probably just go away, but even if it does, CWs are better at AoE than we are. No target cap+range+very excellent CC versus a target cap+stuck in melee range to deal any damage+no CC at all. That choice is clear.
For GWFs to really be wanted, after cliff pushing goes away and adds and trash mob HP goes down I mean, the damage has got to go up. GWFs will have to become add destroyers, as in extremely fast trash/add kill speeds. Right now you don't kill anything that isn't a non-instance non elite trash mob fast. Once anything has anything more than the absolute base amount of health, it has to be hit over and over and over again to see it's health start to go down. But you place several of those mobs together so you can really work to your class strength and suddenly...THEY DIE EVEN SLOWER! And if you get too many together, some of them don't even start to die!
1: Sprint needs a very short 'dodge' timer when you first activate it. So when you first hit it, for the first 0.25 or maybe even 0.50 of a second, the game treats it as if you were dodging. This keeps the unique movement of the class while making it not a negative.
2: Damage. It needs to go up. Single target, both sure strike and the various encounters, and even crescendo, all need a boost. Not to rogue level, but to a level that rewards you for dealing with the very slow animation speeds which are supposed to signify how powerful the attacks are. Area of Effect damage needs to go up as well. A lot. Remove the target cap, and replace the multi target damage penalty with a multi target damage bonus. ALL AoE damage abilities need a significant damage boost. The At wills, the encounters, the dailies. All of them. No one can touch a Rogue in single target damage. No one can touch a CW in CC. No one can touch a DC in healing. No one should be able to even attempt to get near a GWF in AoE damage. And if that puts GWFs hilariously over the top in overall damage for dungeons, so be it. For the role this class is supposed to fit, if it deals the damage it needs to deal to actually be wanted for that role, it will outdamage everyone else by miles.
We don't need more "single target damage", that's what TRs are for. GWFs need an over-all buff to at-wills across the board, single target, AND AoE (not to mention reaping strike needs a complete overhaul buff, it's so doo-doo). Currently, we have the lowest hitting at-wills while having the strongest weapon damage weapons... where's the common sense in that?
If the ideal situation is 4 GWF and a DC? It is not a healthy game. "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of thing.
DPS is exactly what we need. We have no place because we do so little damage we can't do our job. We play at doing AoE damage. Yes, you hit 5 things and your damage numbers go up, but you aren't DOING anything. You aren't actually killing anything in a timely manner.
Trash needs less hp and more damage. This way pvp is unaffected.
Trash with less HP and more damage just makes CWs an even better choice over us. Ranged so they get hit less, their AoE is plenty powerful already. We have to be better at killing trash and adds than a second CW. Or nothing changes.
And PvP can park it's car in a lake and sit in it. It's broken beyond words, and deserves absolutely no concern when the core gameplay is in dire need of fixing. Fix the core gameplay, and then worry about the sideshow later.