Having a difficult time finding groups right now in late tier 2 and on. I'd like to continue exploring the build endgame but things are quite dismal currently.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
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killerderpMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Glad to see another instigator out there! It is an amazing build and so much fun. But ******! Now the secret is out! :eek:
I've had some pretty great success in T1 dungeons, lately. Cragmire and Cloak Tower, I'm consistently 1st or 2nd in damage and almost always 1st in Most Slain. Crazy highlight was tanking Epic Throne with 3 CWs and a TR.
It's a bit surprising to hear T2s aren't as likely to pick up GWFs considering the sheer volume of trash in stuff like Pirate King and Karrundax. Have you switched up skills at all? I really can't recommend Come and Get It enough. Anecdotally, I get the impression that the number of targets you hit with IBS in one swing impacts the amount of AP you get. So bunching them up, as opposed to lining up a Roar and pushing them away, might come out to a wash in terms of AP gain.
I've had some pretty great success in T1 dungeons, lately. Cragmire and Cloak Tower, I'm consistently 1st or 2nd in damage and almost always 1st in Most Slain. Crazy highlight was tanking Epic Throne with 3 CWs and a TR.
It's a bit surprising to hear T2s aren't as likely to pick up GWFs considering the sheer volume of trash in stuff like Pirate King and Karrundax. Have you switched up skills at all? I really can't recommend Come and Get It enough. Anecdotally, I get the impression that the number of targets you hit with IBS in one swing impacts the amount of AP you get. So bunching them up, as opposed to lining up a Roar and pushing them away, might come out to a wash in terms of AP gain.
From what I gather, it's not the amount of trash that is the problem, but encounter design, almost every fight has a pit you can drop the mobs in to instagib them, and a wizard can spam arcane singularity + shield (huge knockback, no target limit, in a t2-tier situation it'll fill your AP gauge back up to AS it again.) over and over. GWF's do more aoe damage, but damage is irrelevant when you can spam KB and instagib the entire encounter at once.. most gruops run 1/2 clerics 1/2 TR's, and 1/2 wizards (usually one cleric, but some groups like to double cleric) -- Rogues solo the boss, CW's gather/instagib all the adds, cleric does the healing. No need for a fighter period.
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qualityplayerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
If you can time that sequence out to reapply every 3rd wicked strike that would work great!
Well, the third strike in the WS combo does seem to land after the the 2nd behind strike from WMS, and there seems to be a short downtime before you can actually reapply WMS or use any other ability after the last strike of WS, I don't know, I was hoping you could shed some light on this? Maybe it's not worth it, not sure.
daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm having issues with the timing is the WMS/WS combo. It seems I start WMS then try to go into WS but I don't actually start swinging until the second WMS hit is done? So WMS is done at that point. Is this normal? I guess Im not getting the rotation.
Seems to me just using WMS by itself would be just as good. I think I must be doing something wrong. Or is this not viable until 60?
Basically i'm 37 and I'm getting smoked solining right now and I shouldn't be...
I'm having issues with the timing is the WMS/WS combo. It seems I start WMS then try to go into WS but I don't actually start swinging until the second WMS hit is done? So WMS is done at that point. Is this normal? I guess Im not getting the rotation.
Seems to me just using WMS by itself would be just as good. I think I must be doing something wrong. Or is this not viable until 60?
Basically i'm 37 and I'm getting smoked solining right now and I shouldn't be...
Not sure how your getting smoked at level 37.....I've soloed everything (quests/mini boss's/2-3packs of mobs) so far with the Cleric and a few HP pots here and there with no problems...just hit 39 and using this build. I suggest you hit the AH and buy some upgrades.
I'm having issues with the timing is the WMS/WS combo. It seems I start WMS then try to go into WS but I don't actually start swinging until the second WMS hit is done? So WMS is done at that point. Is this normal? I guess Im not getting the rotation.
Seems to me just using WMS by itself would be just as good. I think I must be doing something wrong. Or is this not viable until 60?
Basically i'm 37 and I'm getting smoked solining right now and I shouldn't be...
You can for sure tap your WMS and then start wicked striking to stack both the attacks. This is true as soon as you get the skill so you should be able to be doing this right away. My suggestion is this and it takes some practice:
You have to get into the mindset that you are not actually attacking with WMS so much as you are just tapping it to start its sequence. If you hold down WMS for too long then you get stuck doing the full animation.
All you want to do is tap the skill and then get onto wicked strikes. You still get both attacks as if you were holding it down but you are free to wicked strike at the same time as the WMS is completing. The timing on WMS is pretty close to completing the same time your third wicked strike is completing.
Edit: you won't get the proper combo in town because you aren't hitting anything to get the second strike going; but you can see on your action bar what I'm talking about doing this in town. If you just tap WMS you will see it ques up in your power bar. You do not need to hold it down.
From what I gather, it's not the amount of trash that is the problem, but encounter design, almost every fight has a pit you can drop the mobs in to instagib them, and a wizard can spam arcane singularity + shield (huge knockback, no target limit, in a t2-tier situation it'll fill your AP gauge back up to AS it again.) over and over. GWF's do more aoe damage, but damage is irrelevant when you can spam KB and instagib the entire encounter at once.. most gruops run 1/2 clerics 1/2 TR's, and 1/2 wizards (usually one cleric, but some groups like to double cleric) -- Rogues solo the boss, CW's gather/instagib all the adds, cleric does the healing. No need for a fighter period.
This is exactly the problem. The GWF is pretty much fine in its design as a class, could use some minor adjustments but its at minimum adequate at its job. The problem is that the tier 2 end game design is not at all designed for this class, thus rendering the GWF and probably also GF useless to the design of the content. Either the class needs adjustments to be relevant to the content or the content needs to be adjusted to be relevant to the class.
Currently that is the problem at tier 2 and beyond.
Well, the third strike in the WS combo does seem to land after the the 2nd behind strike from WMS, and there seems to be a short downtime before you can actually reapply WMS or use any other ability after the last strike of WS, I don't know, I was hoping you could shed some light on this? Maybe it's not worth it, not sure.
The best way to fill this small hole of downtime between sequences is to use an encounter power if ones available. This becomes super viable when you get 4 pc avatar of war as you want to be spacing out your encounters anyway.
So you complete your at will dps rotation and then fill in the small downtime with an encounter. Back to your at will rotation at the end encounter. Between that, unstoppable and moving around you should have very little dps downtime.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
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daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not sure how your getting smoked at level 37.....I've soloed everything (quests/mini boss's/2-3packs of mobs) so far with the Cleric and a few HP pots here and there with no problems...just hit 39 and using this build. I suggest you hit the AH and buy some upgrades.
I know but I am. The zombies in Ebons down are wrecking me. I get between them and I'm down to half health in no time. The casters there summon group after group of zombies too. So if I pull one of them its very difficult, if I pull two summoners, or one and one of the soldiers, whatever they're called, Im dead and that seems to happen a lot.
Also I tried velosk and got instakilled by something I summoned at an altar.
You can for sure tap your WMS and then start wicked striking to stack both the attacks. This is true as soon as you get the skill so you should be able to be doing this right away. My suggestion is this and it takes some practice:
You have to get into the mindset that you are not actually attacking with WMS so much as you are just tapping it to start its sequence. If you hold down WMS for too long then you get stuck doing the full animation.
All you want to do is tap the skill and then get onto wicked strikes. You still get both attacks as if you were holding it down but you are free to wicked strike at the same time as the WMS is completing. The timing on WMS is pretty close to completing the same time your third wicked strike is completing.
Edit: you won't get the proper combo in town because you aren't hitting anything to get the second strike going; but you can see on your action bar what I'm talking about doing this in town. If you just tap WMS you will see it ques up in your power bar. You do not need to hold it down.
Ill give it a try but I usually don't hold anything down. Maybe I'm hitting it a little too long or hitting it twice, I do hit it twice sometimes. But yeah I'm going into the full animation, so I can get any wicked strikes off until its done and its causing issues.
I know but I am. The zombies in Ebons down are wrecking me. I get between them and I'm down to half health in no time. The casters there summon group after group of zombies too. So if I pull one of them its very difficult, if I pull two summoners, or one and one of the soldiers, whatever they're called, Im dead and that seems to happen a lot.
Also I tried velosk and got instakilled by something I summoned at an altar.
Ill give it a try but I usually don't hold anything down. Maybe I'm hitting it a little too long or hitting it twice, I do hit it twice sometimes. But yeah I'm going into the full animation, so I can get any wicked strikes off until its done and its causing issues.
That will neuter your damage output for sure. I remember the area you're at. The big packs hit hard, there are some other spots along the way that are difficult as well.
Get your unstoppable going ASAP to reduce your incoming damage and increase your outgoing damage.
While I cannot say much about the build, as my GWF is level 15, I can comment on the pets/companions. The Cleric thread has a nice discussion on the best pet/companion to use and the debate rages between cats and ioun stones. However like this GWF build alot of Cleric builds are crit based (though recovery primary) and most suggest the cat is slightly better... At least until you hit the 3k crit stat wall and face diminishing returns.
Also a friend of mine who plays GWF (and has been unhappy with it) found a use for mighty leap. Many chests are in odd/hard to reach places and leap lets you travel between some very large gaps with ease. For example she could hop between rooftops in the air pirate region to get at chests I couldn't reach.
I'm going to be working on my GWF using this general build and I'll let you know how it goes.
Have you experienced much trouble trying to get into dungeons yet? Everytime I try join a party for delves (even trying for t1 and not just t2) I end up with things like this http://puu.sh/2USIa.jpg
Have you experienced much trouble trying to get into dungeons yet? Everytime I try join a party for delves (even trying for t1 and not just t2) I end up with things like this http://puu.sh/2USIa.jpg
Nobody likes GWF
I feel your pain Xero. I never had trouble in any tier 1s getting groups or epic pirate. Anything further down the line it's running with friends or gtfo insta-kick when I join a pug queue.
Very sad, really hope they tweak some things to improve GWF's viability at end game.
I feel your pain Xero. I never had trouble in any tier 1s getting groups or epic pirate. Anything further down the line it's running with friends or gtfo insta-kick when I join a pug queue.
Very sad, really hope they tweak some things to improve GWF's viability at end game.
Yeah tier one are easy because mobs can die in seconds. Even then i was in group where the cleric just left because there wasnt a GF. So there alot of newb logic and alot of new 60's. Even though most tier 1s are very easy.
To extinction:
I was wondering what you think about Wicked Strike. I'm surprised you put feats in it. Wicked Strike is very slow and it feels like Indomitable Battle Strike does one attack and teleport atk behind target in the time of one wicked strike. I think if up to 7-8 enemies the damage might be good, but it seems it would fall short of IBS otherwise. It does do more damage on the finally strike but most of the time clerics have heal aggro so your moving around alot.
I would love to see a video on this because I don't believe a initiator spec is better than destroyer at anything, except perhaps the constant combat advantages.
And your ideas are wrong, destroyer is not a single target focused spec it is also aoe damage, any GWF focusing on single target damage is, quite frankly, bad.
Destroyer likely has better upkeep on unstoppable and better AP gain for daily.
However as I said, I would love to see a video so my doubt about initator being as good as destroyer are proven wrong.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
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mustmeesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Anyone crunched some numbers on enchantments? What would be better in offence slot, tenebrous or radiant?
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rogosh69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
SO for wicked strike should we be using all 3 swings after hitting weapon master strike? As the 3rd swing does more damage. I am decently geared but hear that my damage is low for my class, so just want to be sure.
I would love to see a video on this because I don't believe a initiator spec is better than destroyer at anything, except perhaps the constant combat advantages.
And your ideas are wrong, destroyer is not a single target focused spec it is also aoe damage, any GWF focusing on single target damage is, quite frankly, bad.
Destroyer likely has better upkeep on unstoppable and better AP gain for daily.
However as I said, I would love to see a video so my doubt about initator being as good as destroyer are proven wrong.
I have paid the money to respec and run both instigator and destroyer builds. Destroyer is not a bad spec but I don't feel it is as strong as instigator at aoe after trying them both at various gear levels. Ive never focused on single target damage so I'm not sure which one is actually stronger, as you said focusing on single target doesn't make much sense and we arent very good at it. I'm curious as to what you feel makes destroyer better at everything? I have personally tested them both multiple times I'm wondering if you have as well?
You mention better uptime on unstoppable which would mean your capstone and the cool down reduction on roar maybe as well? The determination gain on the capstone is minimal at best and mostly irrelevant, where as the capstone on instigator straight up increases dps significantly and scales massively as your power increases. But anyway, back to better unstoppable uptime as you mentioned.
With gwf in its current state what is the most effective way to build determination consistently for all specs of GWF? Getting hit a couple times. In actual running of dungeons this is easy to do properly and is the way to go about building determination. An instigator in actual gameplay builds determination and has unstoppable up just as much as a destroyer, with a far far better capstone.
Destroyers Purpose got the nerf bat right before open beta and its severely underpowered in its current state as a capstone.
Better AP gain? From spamming roar quicker with relentless battle fury? Or from being unstoppable more? A destroyer does not actually have unstoppable more then an instigator in delves. Against targets that don't hit you at all a little bit faster determination but that's not very realistic. So the gains during unstoppable are similar. The reduced cool down on roar is nice, but isn't enough to beat out all the other dps gains in instigator in my opinion.
We haven't even gotten into the damage and crit increase during combat advantage which we provide the whole party, the stacked up damage on wicked strike, the increased damage to not fast and ground stomp if you use it or the higher damage on deep gash with our capstone. Not to mention just the raw damage increase to every ability from the capstone itself.
In my opinion destroyer is still good so is instigator, and I'm never going to say that one is the only way to go. I built this post to discuss instigator and play it. I like the spec and find it very fun. In the end play whichever you enjoy and find fun. I will continue to play instigator and discuss it with others that also have fun playing their instigator.
Sadly right now, at end game it doesn't really matter because GWF; destroyer or instigator we are not wanted in groups.
I believe the devs know they are a problem at end game and I hope they make us viable.
Yeah tier one are easy because mobs can die in seconds. Even then i was in group where the cleric just left because there wasnt a GF. So there alot of newb logic and alot of new 60's. Even though most tier 1s are very easy.
To extinction:
I was wondering what you think about Wicked Strike. I'm surprised you put feats in it. Wicked Strike is very slow and it feels like Indomitable Battle Strike does one attack and teleport atk behind target in the time of one wicked strike. I think if up to 7-8 enemies the damage might be good, but it seems it would fall short of IBS otherwise. It does do more damage on the finally strike but most of the time clerics have heal aggro so your moving around alot.
Not quite sure which skills you are asking about? WMS and wicked strike I'm guessing? IBS is an encounter. The clerics moving around a lot is true no matter what attack you use. That being said when mobs aren't being instagibbed off ledges by wizards most fighting happens in the cleric circle or it should anyway. If the cleric takes the mobs into their circle before kitting them all over the place you can peel the adds off the cleric and fight them in the circle. If the cleric kits them a long time he's stuck with them for the most part.
Out of curiosity howmuch does the playstyle differ between instigator and destroyer?
And ive heard (could be wrong) wicked strike can only hit at max 5 targets, is the correct/wrong, does it make it inferior to weapon master strike which seems to hit any number?
And since youv tested both can i ask what draws you to instigator? what makes you enjoy that spec more.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
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daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Out of curiosity howmuch does the playstyle differ between instigator and destroyer?
And ive heard (could be wrong) wicked strike can only hit at max 5 targets, is the correct/wrong, does it make it inferior to weapon master strike which seems to hit any number?
And since youv tested both can i ask what draws you to instigator? what makes you enjoy that spec more.
I'm nearly positive I've hit at least 6 at once with Wicked Strike...
Out of curiosity howmuch does the playstyle differ between instigator and destroyer?
And ive heard (could be wrong) wicked strike can only hit at max 5 targets, is the correct/wrong, does it make it inferior to weapon master strike which seems to hit any number?
And since youv tested both can i ask what draws you to instigator? what makes you enjoy that spec more.
The 2 trees play relatively different comparing them to each other but similar on a whole with regards to the role they attempt to fill in a group. I just personally don't care much for sure strike as rogues do it so so so much better in that department.
Just like the destroyer capstone, sure strike got nerfed right before beta launch as well leaving it far behind what it use to be and miles behind rogues. The dev team went in with a chainsaw before launch and neutered the GWF, especially the destroyer.
With regards to WMS, instigator uses WMS as well, he just fills in with buffed wicked strikes between the first and second animations which is a big part of why his aoe damage is better in my opinion. Also during unstoppable wicked strike is killer.
At the end of the day both are viable from what I've experienced. Why I chose instigator is that I feel it scales better with the feats in the tree and gear available, has a better capstone which also keeps scaling with any new and more powerful gear that gets released, has a stronger bleed on deep gash and provides combat advantage to yourself and your party on demand. Also this build is more aoe focused which I believe is the best thing the GWF has going for it at the moment.
The 2 trees play relatively different comparing them to each other but similar on a whole with regards to the role they attempt to fill in a group. I just personally don't care much for sure strike as rogues do it so so so much better in that department.
Just like the destroyer capstone, sure strike got nerfed right before beta launch as well leaving it far behind what it use to be and miles behind rogues. The dev team went in with a chainsaw before launch and neutered the GWF, especially the destroyer.
With regards to WMS, instigator uses WMS as well, he just fills in with buffed wicked strikes between the first and second animations which is a big part of why his aoe damage is better in my opinion. Also during unstoppable wicked strike is killer.
At the end of the day both are viable from what I've experienced. Why I chose instigator is that I feel it scales better with the feats in the tree and gear available, has a better capstone which also keeps scaling with any new and more powerful gear that gets released, has a stronger bleed on deep gash and provides combat advantage to yourself and your party on demand. Also this build is more aoe focused which I believe is the best thing the GWF has going for it at the moment.
Thank you for all you're replies, your enthuasiasm and thought youv put into this spec has convinced me to give it a go:D.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
It doesn't make sense for all the marks available to disappear when you're struck. If it's meant to allow a Sentinel to gain aggro, it still doesn't make sense because as soon as you're hit the mark goes away and there goes your aggro generation for the next 17 seconds.
Just allow marks to persist for a duration instead of until you're hit. As-is marks are incredibly difficult to keep for longer than one or two hits even when you don't have aggro and have Unstoppable running. There's just too much AoE from add's and bosses to avoid being hit by all of it. (Not to mention that GWF is designed to take hits no matter which feat tree you're pursuing.)
They're only useful while a CW is gathering everything up and they're unable to attack for a brief time. That is their only use right now, and frankly having that much synergy required between CW and GWF is silly. My encounter abilities shouldn't require another classes daily to be effective or useful. As it stands, that's the case.
Come and Get It needs to hit more targets, preferably no cap at all, and marks need to persist for a duration instead of 'until hit'.
Until then I think Extinctions build is probably one of the better ones.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
It doesn't make sense for all the marks available to disappear when you're struck. If it's meant to allow a Sentinel to gain aggro, it still doesn't make sense because as soon as you're hit the mark goes away and there goes your aggro generation for the next 17 seconds.
Just allow marks to persist for a duration instead of until you're hit. As-is marks are incredibly difficult to keep for longer than one or two hits even when you don't have aggro and have Unstoppable running. There's just too much AoE from add's and bosses to avoid being hit by all of it. (Not to mention that GWF is designed to take hits no matter which feat tree you're pursuing.)
They're only useful while a CW is gathering everything up and they're unable to attack for a brief time. That is their only use right now, and frankly having that much synergy required between CW and GWF is silly. My encounter abilities shouldn't require another classes daily to be effective or useful. As it stands, that's the case.
Come and Get It needs to hit more targets, preferably no cap at all, and marks need to persist for a duration instead of 'until hit'.
Until then I think Extinctions build is probably one of the better ones.
Thanks Space, and I agree its silly that the marks go away as soon as you are hit. That feels nothing less then just really weird. It should be timer based at least.
No idea behind the logic on the marks, just doesn't make sense to me.
Vacation time for me. Heading out of town for the week. I won't be In game but will still check the forums on my ipad. Hopefully by the time I get back the devs will have done some tuning to GWF.
If there are any changes let me know how they work in game!
Ex
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
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ophalaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm also usin Instigator for some time now and I'm pleased with it - but I find it also kinda weird that ur Ult Feat disappears on every hit u get.
Seems not too elaborated as far as I'm conserned, cause I am all the time being targeted by at least 1-3 Mobs.
Sometimes I'm Tank in our grp so it's completly useless. ^.^
Greetings
Ash
Ps: Great holiday to you.
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herosixtyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I use a destroyer Reaping strike build atm, i crit consistently for 14k on low resist mobs. I've tried using wicked and WMS and the damage was just not good. I am wondering if this is because you need the wicked trait and the instigator paragon buff?
I want to be the most effective as i can be and i'm wondering what your thoughts are on using reaping strike.. i'm just not convinced using wicked strike is better.. fair enough instagator end talent is really good (i dont use destroyer paragon talent).. even so i think reaping strike + instigator would be better
Reaping strike provides decent single target and good aoe.. however im just not doing good enough damage on the charts, rogues always do twice my damage i can only beat a CW occasionally.
I was using 1 WMS 1 Wicked and with unstoppable 1 WMS then 3 wicked.. is this the correct rotation? with reaping i do 1 WMS 1 reaping .. unstoppable 1 wms and 2-3 reaping.
highest crit so far is 24k single target reaping and like 18k aoe reaping.. how can wicked be better, please show me the light.
I'd also like your thoughts on the T2 set pieces.. its stacked with recovery.. i can only see this being useful with the 25% power while slamming build.
Comments
Extinction - GWF
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It's a bit surprising to hear T2s aren't as likely to pick up GWFs considering the sheer volume of trash in stuff like Pirate King and Karrundax. Have you switched up skills at all? I really can't recommend Come and Get It enough. Anecdotally, I get the impression that the number of targets you hit with IBS in one swing impacts the amount of AP you get. So bunching them up, as opposed to lining up a Roar and pushing them away, might come out to a wash in terms of AP gain.
From what I gather, it's not the amount of trash that is the problem, but encounter design, almost every fight has a pit you can drop the mobs in to instagib them, and a wizard can spam arcane singularity + shield (huge knockback, no target limit, in a t2-tier situation it'll fill your AP gauge back up to AS it again.) over and over. GWF's do more aoe damage, but damage is irrelevant when you can spam KB and instagib the entire encounter at once.. most gruops run 1/2 clerics 1/2 TR's, and 1/2 wizards (usually one cleric, but some groups like to double cleric) -- Rogues solo the boss, CW's gather/instagib all the adds, cleric does the healing. No need for a fighter period.
Well, the third strike in the WS combo does seem to land after the the 2nd behind strike from WMS, and there seems to be a short downtime before you can actually reapply WMS or use any other ability after the last strike of WS, I don't know, I was hoping you could shed some light on this? Maybe it's not worth it, not sure.
QualityPlayer - Mindflayer 60 GWF
Seems to me just using WMS by itself would be just as good. I think I must be doing something wrong. Or is this not viable until 60?
Basically i'm 37 and I'm getting smoked solining right now and I shouldn't be...
Not sure how your getting smoked at level 37.....I've soloed everything (quests/mini boss's/2-3packs of mobs) so far with the Cleric and a few HP pots here and there with no problems...just hit 39 and using this build. I suggest you hit the AH and buy some upgrades.
You can for sure tap your WMS and then start wicked striking to stack both the attacks. This is true as soon as you get the skill so you should be able to be doing this right away. My suggestion is this and it takes some practice:
You have to get into the mindset that you are not actually attacking with WMS so much as you are just tapping it to start its sequence. If you hold down WMS for too long then you get stuck doing the full animation.
All you want to do is tap the skill and then get onto wicked strikes. You still get both attacks as if you were holding it down but you are free to wicked strike at the same time as the WMS is completing. The timing on WMS is pretty close to completing the same time your third wicked strike is completing.
Edit: you won't get the proper combo in town because you aren't hitting anything to get the second strike going; but you can see on your action bar what I'm talking about doing this in town. If you just tap WMS you will see it ques up in your power bar. You do not need to hold it down.
Extinction - GWF
This is exactly the problem. The GWF is pretty much fine in its design as a class, could use some minor adjustments but its at minimum adequate at its job. The problem is that the tier 2 end game design is not at all designed for this class, thus rendering the GWF and probably also GF useless to the design of the content. Either the class needs adjustments to be relevant to the content or the content needs to be adjusted to be relevant to the class.
Currently that is the problem at tier 2 and beyond.
Extinction - GWF
The best way to fill this small hole of downtime between sequences is to use an encounter power if ones available. This becomes super viable when you get 4 pc avatar of war as you want to be spacing out your encounters anyway.
So you complete your at will dps rotation and then fill in the small downtime with an encounter. Back to your at will rotation at the end encounter. Between that, unstoppable and moving around you should have very little dps downtime.
Extinction - GWF
I know but I am. The zombies in Ebons down are wrecking me. I get between them and I'm down to half health in no time. The casters there summon group after group of zombies too. So if I pull one of them its very difficult, if I pull two summoners, or one and one of the soldiers, whatever they're called, Im dead and that seems to happen a lot.
Also I tried velosk and got instakilled by something I summoned at an altar.
Ill give it a try but I usually don't hold anything down. Maybe I'm hitting it a little too long or hitting it twice, I do hit it twice sometimes. But yeah I'm going into the full animation, so I can get any wicked strikes off until its done and its causing issues.
That will neuter your damage output for sure. I remember the area you're at. The big packs hit hard, there are some other spots along the way that are difficult as well.
Get your unstoppable going ASAP to reduce your incoming damage and increase your outgoing damage.
Extinction - GWF
Also a friend of mine who plays GWF (and has been unhappy with it) found a use for mighty leap. Many chests are in odd/hard to reach places and leap lets you travel between some very large gaps with ease. For example she could hop between rooftops in the air pirate region to get at chests I couldn't reach.
I'm going to be working on my GWF using this general build and I'll let you know how it goes.
Nobody likes GWF
I feel your pain Xero. I never had trouble in any tier 1s getting groups or epic pirate. Anything further down the line it's running with friends or gtfo insta-kick when I join a pug queue.
Very sad, really hope they tweak some things to improve GWF's viability at end game.
Extinction - GWF
Yeah tier one are easy because mobs can die in seconds. Even then i was in group where the cleric just left because there wasnt a GF. So there alot of newb logic and alot of new 60's. Even though most tier 1s are very easy.
To extinction:
I was wondering what you think about Wicked Strike. I'm surprised you put feats in it. Wicked Strike is very slow and it feels like Indomitable Battle Strike does one attack and teleport atk behind target in the time of one wicked strike. I think if up to 7-8 enemies the damage might be good, but it seems it would fall short of IBS otherwise. It does do more damage on the finally strike but most of the time clerics have heal aggro so your moving around alot.
And your ideas are wrong, destroyer is not a single target focused spec it is also aoe damage, any GWF focusing on single target damage is, quite frankly, bad.
Destroyer likely has better upkeep on unstoppable and better AP gain for daily.
However as I said, I would love to see a video so my doubt about initator being as good as destroyer are proven wrong.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
I have paid the money to respec and run both instigator and destroyer builds. Destroyer is not a bad spec but I don't feel it is as strong as instigator at aoe after trying them both at various gear levels. Ive never focused on single target damage so I'm not sure which one is actually stronger, as you said focusing on single target doesn't make much sense and we arent very good at it. I'm curious as to what you feel makes destroyer better at everything? I have personally tested them both multiple times I'm wondering if you have as well?
You mention better uptime on unstoppable which would mean your capstone and the cool down reduction on roar maybe as well? The determination gain on the capstone is minimal at best and mostly irrelevant, where as the capstone on instigator straight up increases dps significantly and scales massively as your power increases. But anyway, back to better unstoppable uptime as you mentioned.
With gwf in its current state what is the most effective way to build determination consistently for all specs of GWF? Getting hit a couple times. In actual running of dungeons this is easy to do properly and is the way to go about building determination. An instigator in actual gameplay builds determination and has unstoppable up just as much as a destroyer, with a far far better capstone.
Destroyers Purpose got the nerf bat right before open beta and its severely underpowered in its current state as a capstone.
Better AP gain? From spamming roar quicker with relentless battle fury? Or from being unstoppable more? A destroyer does not actually have unstoppable more then an instigator in delves. Against targets that don't hit you at all a little bit faster determination but that's not very realistic. So the gains during unstoppable are similar. The reduced cool down on roar is nice, but isn't enough to beat out all the other dps gains in instigator in my opinion.
We haven't even gotten into the damage and crit increase during combat advantage which we provide the whole party, the stacked up damage on wicked strike, the increased damage to not fast and ground stomp if you use it or the higher damage on deep gash with our capstone. Not to mention just the raw damage increase to every ability from the capstone itself.
In my opinion destroyer is still good so is instigator, and I'm never going to say that one is the only way to go. I built this post to discuss instigator and play it. I like the spec and find it very fun. In the end play whichever you enjoy and find fun. I will continue to play instigator and discuss it with others that also have fun playing their instigator.
Sadly right now, at end game it doesn't really matter because GWF; destroyer or instigator we are not wanted in groups.
I believe the devs know they are a problem at end game and I hope they make us viable.
Extinction - GWF
Not quite sure which skills you are asking about? WMS and wicked strike I'm guessing? IBS is an encounter. The clerics moving around a lot is true no matter what attack you use. That being said when mobs aren't being instagibbed off ledges by wizards most fighting happens in the cleric circle or it should anyway. If the cleric takes the mobs into their circle before kitting them all over the place you can peel the adds off the cleric and fight them in the circle. If the cleric kits them a long time he's stuck with them for the most part.
Extinction - GWF
And ive heard (could be wrong) wicked strike can only hit at max 5 targets, is the correct/wrong, does it make it inferior to weapon master strike which seems to hit any number?
And since youv tested both can i ask what draws you to instigator? what makes you enjoy that spec more.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
I'm nearly positive I've hit at least 6 at once with Wicked Strike...
The 2 trees play relatively different comparing them to each other but similar on a whole with regards to the role they attempt to fill in a group. I just personally don't care much for sure strike as rogues do it so so so much better in that department.
Just like the destroyer capstone, sure strike got nerfed right before beta launch as well leaving it far behind what it use to be and miles behind rogues. The dev team went in with a chainsaw before launch and neutered the GWF, especially the destroyer.
With regards to WMS, instigator uses WMS as well, he just fills in with buffed wicked strikes between the first and second animations which is a big part of why his aoe damage is better in my opinion. Also during unstoppable wicked strike is killer.
At the end of the day both are viable from what I've experienced. Why I chose instigator is that I feel it scales better with the feats in the tree and gear available, has a better capstone which also keeps scaling with any new and more powerful gear that gets released, has a stronger bleed on deep gash and provides combat advantage to yourself and your party on demand. Also this build is more aoe focused which I believe is the best thing the GWF has going for it at the moment.
Extinction - GWF
Thank you for all you're replies, your enthuasiasm and thought youv put into this spec has convinced me to give it a go:D.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Just allow marks to persist for a duration instead of until you're hit. As-is marks are incredibly difficult to keep for longer than one or two hits even when you don't have aggro and have Unstoppable running. There's just too much AoE from add's and bosses to avoid being hit by all of it. (Not to mention that GWF is designed to take hits no matter which feat tree you're pursuing.)
They're only useful while a CW is gathering everything up and they're unable to attack for a brief time. That is their only use right now, and frankly having that much synergy required between CW and GWF is silly. My encounter abilities shouldn't require another classes daily to be effective or useful. As it stands, that's the case.
Come and Get It needs to hit more targets, preferably no cap at all, and marks need to persist for a duration instead of 'until hit'.
Until then I think Extinctions build is probably one of the better ones.
Thanks Space, and I agree its silly that the marks go away as soon as you are hit. That feels nothing less then just really weird. It should be timer based at least.
No idea behind the logic on the marks, just doesn't make sense to me.
Extinction - GWF
If there are any changes let me know how they work in game!
Ex
Extinction - GWF
Seems not too elaborated as far as I'm conserned, cause I am all the time being targeted by at least 1-3 Mobs.
Sometimes I'm Tank in our grp so it's completly useless. ^.^
Greetings
Ash
Ps: Great holiday to you.
I want to be the most effective as i can be and i'm wondering what your thoughts are on using reaping strike.. i'm just not convinced using wicked strike is better.. fair enough instagator end talent is really good (i dont use destroyer paragon talent).. even so i think reaping strike + instigator would be better
Reaping strike provides decent single target and good aoe.. however im just not doing good enough damage on the charts, rogues always do twice my damage i can only beat a CW occasionally.
I was using 1 WMS 1 Wicked and with unstoppable 1 WMS then 3 wicked.. is this the correct rotation? with reaping i do 1 WMS 1 reaping .. unstoppable 1 wms and 2-3 reaping.
highest crit so far is 24k single target reaping and like 18k aoe reaping.. how can wicked be better, please show me the light.
I'd also like your thoughts on the T2 set pieces.. its stacked with recovery.. i can only see this being useful with the 25% power while slamming build.