Hit end game if nothing has been changed and come back and post. And if you are at tier 2 and up end game then there are other classes that do it better.
please dont take offence but get to teir 2 as a GWF haha you make me laugh.
from what im hearing ill never get the chance too
I don't really see the point of limiting Come and Get It's target count unless they didn't want to step on the CW's feet. Honestly I'd prefer it to hit more targets and just get rid of the stupid damage buff. It's only good for one shot anyway, but I guess they figured it would help for a burst of DPS for aggro hold on a Sentinel (lol). I can see where they were coming from when considering all the debuff potential, but it falls a bit short as a group CC and really isn't a very significant damage boost when looking at all the options. It's just not enough range, and not enough targets to be used in the same exploitative way. Still good in it's current form, but as he says it seems CW does it better in general no matter which way you cut it.
I don't really know enough about T2 to make competent suggestions, but it does bother me that hitting extra targets reduces the GWF's damage but then buff's it through various stacks and even debuffs your target. It could just do more damage without the juggling, though it would be boring otherwise. It just seems silly to lower the damage for doing a certain action while buffing the damage at the same time through the same action. It's...boggling. (Specifically, I'm talking about Destroyer and the three target minimum without feats.)
Take the damage reduction away from hitting multiple targets, see how it goes. Just one halfway thought through idea.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
There are tens of dozens of threads on the second string GWF. This thread needs to be locked or all the threads brought together. All of we GWF know what has happened to the GWF after the nerf, we know when it happened and which skills are utterly useless for the classes projected role. The developers are aware of this also. Creating another thread will do nothing to change their minds unless they decide to change it back or adjust our skills to the realm of usefulness.
I have been kicked too even though my "sorry *** game mechanic score" , we hear that the elitists call it "gear score" is in the 10k range. Blame the game mechanics for needing a gear score and not the actual D&D rules to fight with, but then what did you expect from Cryptic and PWE?
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
never i said wicked strike or sure strike are awesome i said, instead, they are better than reaping strike. which btw cant keep weapon master stacks nor student of the sword's
Yeah, it can. As long as you use WMS, then Reaping, then another WMS you'll have it all along. More ranks in WMS extends the duration of the debuff. Stock, you're right. But only putting one point in it is a bit silly.
what I wonder here is why do you consider RS sucking such an absurd when its pretty much a consensus, or the GWF as a whole.
i can assume mostly 2 things, either you would rather the class keep sucking or you have some ridiculous notion that no one will notice and keep getting GWF for groups if we pretend the class is awesome.
Nah, it's because it absolutely annihilates every dungeon I use it in. As I've said, that might change at level 60 but it works great otherwise. I've tried wicked strikes, and it carried me until I had my second rank of WMS, but I like the big numbers. Lets not forget that Unstoppable speeds the charge time on Reaping Strike, just as it does with every other attack. I should mention you can toss two fast-cast Reaping Strikes before the debuff from WMS falls off. WMS is purely for the debuff, and the stack maintenance.
To be honest, I tried running WMS and WS side-by-side and in tandem and eventually I just decided both were nearly identical in damage so there wasn't a point in using both. If I'm in a situation where I need to dodge often, I just use WMS by itself and pop them with a fully charged RS when I can. 25% extra damage to Reaping Strike to single targets is a bigger deal than you know when you combine a ton of debuffs.
I can understand using WMS if you're an initiator build. I was not talking about an initator build. I shouldn't have said wicked strikes is terrible, I should have said Destroyers don't need it. It should be a clue when two of the feats in Destroyer have to do with WMS and RS. It's really not rocket science. Just try it out. If you have and hate it, fine, but know that I like big f'ing numbers and RS does that nicely with no cooldown and just a bit of stack maintenance.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Yeah, it can. As long as you use WMS, then Reaping, then another WMS you'll have it all along. More ranks in WMS extends the duration of the debuff. Stock, you're right. But only putting one point in it is a bit silly.
Nah, it's because it absolutely annihilates every dungeon I use it in. As I've said, that might change at level 60 but it works great otherwise. I've tried wicked strikes, and it carried me until I had my second rank of WMS, but I like the big numbers. Lets not forget that Unstoppable speeds the charge time on Reaping Strike, just as it does with every other attack. I should mention you can toss two fast-cast Reaping Strikes before the debuff from WMS falls off. WMS is purely for the debuff, and the stack maintenance.
To be honest, I tried running WMS and WS side-by-side and in tandem and eventually I just decided both were nearly identical in damage so there wasn't a point in using both. If I'm in a situation where I need to dodge often, I just use WMS by itself and pop them with a fully charged RS when I can. 25% extra damage to Reaping Strike to single targets is a bigger deal than you know when you combine a ton of debuffs.
I can understand using WMS if you're an initiator build. I was not talking about an initator build. I shouldn't have said wicked strikes is terrible, I should have said Destroyers don't need it. It should be a clue when two of the feats in Destroyer have to do with WMS and RS. It's really not rocket science. Just try it out. If you have and hate it, fine, but know that I like big f'ing numbers and RS does that nicely with no cooldown and just a bit of stack maintenance.
i like reaping strike a lot. but I'm not gonna tell it's worth the charge bar or that it's better than SS/WS(WMS as well) because I don't think so(the GWF as a whole imo). Honestly, you are the first person i see claiming reaping strike is good and one of the few saying the class is in no need of buffs. anyways, if you are trying to prove RS is as good as you claim and the GWF is balanced you need to consider using a more believable context in which not everything goes according to plan (interrupts on RS, other classes performances in a given role and overall, for exemples). because right now you are giving your glorified opinion as if they were facts in the most ideal situations and then going so far as saying, and I quote, "myth busted".
I found out the most broken thing with GWF while I was soloing normal Gray Wolf Den. Slam's animation allows you to pop another daily skill at the same time. I tested this with Crescendo and Avalanche of Steel to varying degrees of success. Crescendo I could get to consistently land alongside Slam, which allowed for some pretty great DPS. With Avalanche, I could get Slam landing with the disappearing character animation, but no fall down+damage+prone. My character would just pop up back on the screen with Slam running. I didn't test Spinning Blade, but it's a bad daily anyway.
The unfortunate thing about this is what you'd expect it to be. With the amount of threat Slam draws, it's usually a bad idea to follow it up with crescendo's long animation (that doesn't allow for health pots or unstoppable to interrupt it) unless you're sitting in a cleric circle.
That being said, I'm pretty sure it's a bug and it'll get fixed. Have fun with it while it lasts. I surprised a couple TRs with my damage output on some dungeons.
I'm wondering why people think that Great Weapon Fighters need a buff to begin with. Is it because you as a Great Weapon fighter are not topping the charts in dungeons and Player vs Player? Seriously, did you think rolling a hybrid class would make it so that you did one thing well? A Great Weapon Fighter is a hybrid class. Meaning that it does multiple things, but none of them really well. A Great Weapon Fighter deals damage in an Area of Effect format, a Great Weapon Fighter, has Crowd Control abilities, a Great Weapon Fighter has Tanking skills, but their skills are no where near as close to the primary characters that do these things well. You're not supposed to do these things well. You, as a Great Weapon Fighter are a jack of all trades, but a master of none. If you abandon one thing in pursuit of another, then your build will falter.
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
First off, it's not really a 'hybrid' class. You have to spec for most of that anyways to get those abilities, like actually being tanky, which kills your dps. We went through all of this in Classic WoW with the 'hybrid tax' and it showed how much it never worked as at end game, pallies and druids were seriously under-represented in raid groups. Blizzard finally fixed it, to some degree in BC and finally in WotLK, where those classes were actually not only viable, but sought after classes in raids. A resto druid was not a tank, likewise a tanking druid couldn't heal for ****, so why tax them? All it does is make them useless.
You're mode of thinking is old and outdated and has proven to be counter productive in the past. With decades of experience in how these formats work in other games, how is it PWE doesn't know this and manages to make the same pitfalls again? Currently there's only 5 classes in the game and 2 of them are broken. People aren't going to stick around very long when half the classes in the game are shunned at end game and they keep pumping out cosmetic items in the Zen store and take a year to fix classes. With everything that's been done in MMOs over the passed 15 years, gamers shouldn't have to relive old design mistakes and programmers have no excuse to make them, and you have no leg to stand on trying to defend it. It's nothing more than HAMSTER poor game design. Get with the modern times k? thx.
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mkretributionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I am currently a 11k GS GWF , i did all t2 and the only thing i haven't downed yet is dracolich from CN. I got avatar of war t2 set and a beserker greatsword with normal plague fire enchant and a blue ioune... etc lots of fine gear and stuffs. But seriously , everytime a little 9-10k GS rogue comes around (and knows how to play his class) i feel very ashamed comming to 2nd in top dps. I weild a beautiful big a$$ sword and a tiny half-ling with 2 chinese eating sticks is out dsping me.... this is just SAD. I've spent tons of zen to reroll my class over and over , read forum treads , enchanted my gears , changed echants , tried new skills , tried comboing with friends who buff me , tried every possible thing ( stacking tenebrous, my ioun , my skill rotations , my timings) brief everything possible. But in the end i just found despair... GWF is neither a tank or a dps , a GF can tank better and a rogue DPS better with minimal gear/effort/skill... yea im leveling a half-orc rogue now thanks a lot PW for destroying the supposed "destroyer".
GWF is just a hopeless , overnerfed class , not worth wasting ur time to improve even ultra late game it sucks, just face it , cry then go reroll anything else
Eh, maybe i'll agree with the detractors once I hit end-game. At level 55 I'm still not seeing why it's gimped.
I just ran my first Spider instance, tanked it without a healer, and topped every chart. I'll be the first to admit I fell twice, but both times the team picked me up before death. I also drank probably a good 30 potions.
Yeah, it's pre-60 and it was a random queue but like I said I just haven't seen it yet. Until I do, I'll continue having a blast charging into mobs and tearing stuff in half. Just thought I'd share what I'm doing.
It boils down to use the GWF tanking abilities with 100% DPS gear with mostly destroyer feats.
EDIT:
If the only thing you care about in the world is the highest damage delt column of the dungeon report you should be a rogue. That's just how it is, and it will likely never change. I personally like to face tank and do tons of damage while doing it. I also like to help my team by taking their damage for them. At the very least, if you don't get highest kill number and highest damage taken in the instance you're definitely doing it wrong.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Another Thread about how people are comparing the classes based on dps.
PVP:
You DON'T Need a dps boost.
I've fought many GWF that have completely shredded me up. And I've seen ones fighting alongside me that have torn enemies in half and stunlocked them to death.
The fact is, No matter what you do people will not be satisfied. Purely because people blame everything but themselves when something isn't going how they want it to be.
If you want ultimate balance. remove all the classes and give all classes block, dodge + self heals and dps and defence and stealth.
And if you are not satisfied reroll.
If you were expecting something else. Reroll.
If you are not getting groups - Find a static.
PVE:
Increase Number of targets hit by all skills. AOE class should be aoe exceptional.
Give a Aoe pve Damage increase based on how many mobs are being hit.
E.G 8 mobs = double damage.
After threat is fixed. Give them more threat options and damage reduction whilst doing threat increased Skills. - "When using blabla - damage taken is reduced by 50%"
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
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rogosh69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
They need to make all 3 trees viable, right now sentinel is non existent.
Eh, maybe i'll agree with the detractors once I hit end-game. At level 55 I'm still not seeing why it's gimped.
I just ran my first Spider instance, tanked it without a healer, and topped every chart. I'll be the first to admit I fell twice, but both times the team picked me up before death. I also drank probably a good 30 potions.
Yeah, it's pre-60 and it was a random queue but like I said I just haven't seen it yet. Until I do, I'll continue having a blast charging into mobs and tearing stuff in half. Just thought I'd share what I'm doing.
It boils down to use the GWF tanking abilities with 100% DPS gear with mostly destroyer feats.
EDIT:
If the only thing you care about in the world is the highest damage delt column of the dungeon report you should be a rogue. That's just how it is, and it will likely never change. I personally like to face tank and do tons of damage while doing it. I also like to help my team by taking their damage for them. At the very least, if you don't get highest kill number and highest damage taken in the instance you're definitely doing it wrong.
The high gear score GWF's are generally NOT complaining about lack of damage or numbers as much as being irrelevant to the highest level of content due to the devs direction in dungeon design. Our AOE damage should be far ahead of the other classes which it is not but that is still livable. Every other class is the true leader at something. GWF is not the clear in the spotlight leader at anything.
The GF is the best at taking hits, but like the GWF - that role is also mostly useless at end game.
The 10k+ GS GWF's that are at later tier 2 realize we are useless to the design of the content.
See I this just doesn't really make sense. While I agree that some aspects of TR/CW/GF/DC could use a tweak here and there, I think the more sensible solution is to buff the one class that seems to fall slightly below the others, which is the GWF. Buffing their ability more DD against a single target, by way of tweaking an encounter or at-will power would be a huge step on putting GWF on par with the other classes.
I really can't imagine some of the instances minus what TR and CW can currently do. You would be asking for 5xDC every run if you take away their ability to do what they currently do. Buff is always better.
No I get that Extinction, you made that point very clearly. It's just not a problem with the GWF that the end-game content makes add's completely irrelevant when we are the add's class. It's a problem with the dungeon. This is a combination of people wanting GWF to do #1 damage all the time combined with frustration over being kicked from dungeon queue.
That's why I keep saying that no buff or change to the GWF is going to change that fact. Begging to be #1 in the damage column just to get a chance to run the content is ludicrous. If you only need strong single target damage and strong giant AoE control abilities to finish end-game, than that obviously leaves out GWF and GF. Every fighting-man class is useless. We're not a special snowflake in being screwed over just because we're GWF.
GWF does the job it was designed to do incredibly well. It's just that they designed the GWF to do something that isn't needed. Like if you designed a class that one shots a certain type of enemy, but sucks versus everything else, but then in end game content you never see that particular enemy. Of course, no one will take you because you are irrelevant. You still one-shot a particular enemy though. (In this example, if you can't understand a simile STFU.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Rolling a new TR today after got the last purple piece for my GWF. It stopped being funny getting my face hit with 25k from a TR or 45k from a CW while I can only crit max for 11~12k with 90% critical severity & 3k4 power.
I mean I expected to mash somebody out of the earth's surface with my 2-handed great sword, not to be pounded up my *** by 2 piece of sticks or a ball to my face.
No I get that Extinction, you made that point very clearly. It's just not a problem with the GWF that the end-game content makes add's completely irrelevant when we are the add's class. It's a problem with the dungeon. This is a combination of people wanting GWF to do #1 damage all the time combined with frustration over being kicked from dungeon queue.
That's why I keep saying that no buff or change to the GWF is going to change that fact. Begging to be #1 in the damage column just to get a chance to run the content is ludicrous. If you only need strong single target damage and strong giant AoE control abilities to finish end-game, than that obviously leaves out GWF and GF. Every fighting-man class is useless. We're not a special snowflake in being screwed over just because we're GWF.
GWF does the job it was designed to do incredibly well. It's just that they designed the GWF to do something that isn't needed. Like if you designed a class that one shots a certain type of enemy, but sucks versus everything else, but then in end game content you never see that particular enemy. Of course, no one will take you because you are irrelevant. You still one-shot a particular enemy though. (In this example, if you can't understand a simile STFU.)
Amen. I installed the ACT parser with the NW plugin to watch DPS through encounters (total damage done is such a bull**** stat). When we do fight trash, as opposed to jettisoning them off cliffs, I gain on the TR and stay ahead of the CW in my groups. When we get to the boss, however, it's scary how fast the DPS goes in favor of the TR. But I can live with that. It's funny, my TR buddy keeps telling me about his 45K crits and how much more damage he does than me, but I tell him my screen is a veritable collage of yellows and oranges when I am in combat, MANY NUMBERS!!!! Still at the end of the run, he's about 20% ahead of me every time.
tl/dr: We're working right as AOE DPS vacuum cleaners. But our lack of utility beyond that makes us expendable in the current dungeon design.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
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i can see i am one of the few people who sees that we don't need anything done to our damage output.
i think the problem some people are having is that they find themselves possibly not always attacking the target due to not wanting people to ***** when we get hurt and possibly die.(this also affect our buffs/debuffs)
altho i have no problem with sprint i can see why people don't like it it isn't as effective as the other classes dodge but at the same time we can use this alot more often and can cover a good distance.
i will say certain aspects of us do need to be tweaked i don't like the idea of getting to teir 2 before certain feats actually start to show their effect.
if these could be more lower lvl friendly without then becoming an op feat late game then that would be cool.
i think the one thing we should remember is not only us are having problems with certain aspects of our classes ( except TR ) but ours seem to be more obvious atm than the rest.
Pointing out the fact that we deal LESS damage when we hit multiple targets and we deal LESS damage when we go into Unstoppable should be more than enough for everyone to see a problem.
I'm still fairly new to this game but each of my friends rolled a different class and GWF is the ONLY class that has any sort of "you deal less damage because of this" that I have seen.
Unstoppable - If I were to take PCP or Steroids, i would say that would be the equivalent of using the Unstoppable skill, why would I be dealing less damage when i'm releasing the limiters of my own physical prowess? If you're 'unstoppable' wouldnt that mean that you'd be dealing more damage to attribute to that 'unstoppable' buff?
It's ridiculous to nerf our damage for doing more, if anything, we should receive a damage/threat BUFF for hitting multiple targets.
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vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
That's just about it. GWF is not a bad class necessarily, but we have no place in the current meta of ledge-tossing or perma-controlling all trash/adds while the TR burns the boss.
GWF LFG please carry me to loots until they fix my class tyvm.
We might be needed if there's a REALLY good reason to farm ashes in Castle Never necessitating killing mobs without throwing them off the map.
No I get that Extinction, you made that point very clearly. It's just not a problem with the GWF that the end-game content makes add's completely irrelevant when we are the add's class. It's a problem with the dungeon. This is a combination of people wanting GWF to do #1 damage all the time combined with frustration over being kicked from dungeon queue.
That's why I keep saying that no buff or change to the GWF is going to change that fact. Begging to be #1 in the damage column just to get a chance to run the content is ludicrous. If you only need strong single target damage and strong giant AoE control abilities to finish end-game, than that obviously leaves out GWF and GF. Every fighting-man class is useless. We're not a special snowflake in being screwed over just because we're GWF.
GWF does the job it was designed to do incredibly well. It's just that they designed the GWF to do something that isn't needed. Like if you designed a class that one shots a certain type of enemy, but sucks versus everything else, but then in end game content you never see that particular enemy. Of course, no one will take you because you are irrelevant. You still one-shot a particular enemy though. (In this example, if you can't understand a simile STFU.)
I'm with ya Space, and agree with what you are saying. I'm a big advocate for this class as it is pretty good at its role. Just wish its role was useful at end game.
This is why I suggested increasing Sure Strike by 300%. It allows us to do all of the things we were doing before, but also work within the game (burst boss adds later).
I'm wondering why people think that Great Weapon Fighters need a buff to begin with. Is it because you as a Great Weapon fighter are not topping the charts in dungeons and Player vs Player? Seriously, did you think rolling a hybrid class would make it so that you did one thing well? A Great Weapon Fighter is a hybrid class. Meaning that it does multiple things, but none of them really well. A Great Weapon Fighter deals damage in an Area of Effect format, a Great Weapon Fighter, has Crowd Control abilities, a Great Weapon Fighter has Tanking skills, but their skills are no where near as close to the primary characters that do these things well. You're not supposed to do these things well. You, as a Great Weapon Fighter are a jack of all trades, but a master of none. If you abandon one thing in pursuit of another, then your build will falter.
If all you are concerned with is seeing yourself as number one on charts, then you are likely hyper-competitive and need to seriously rethink your moral standings, or play a class that main-lines in tanking, Damage dealing, or Healing.
Translation: Your class suck because it is supposed to SUCK, reroll or quit, GG.
I want to make just one precisation: GWF can destroy DPS charts ONLY on masses of mobs if the rogue in your party or the wizard in your party are less geared/skilled than you. I invite you to find a very good rogue or wizard and try outdpess them: even with a lot of mobs you'll have very hard time doing it because the at-will powers of the class are the weakest of all.
"precisation" Does this word exist in English ? Lol, maybe I cant play my fave class since its a wimp but at least Im learning new words and improving my english
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Comments
please dont take offence but get to teir 2 as a GWF haha you make me laugh.
from what im hearing ill never get the chance too
I don't really know enough about T2 to make competent suggestions, but it does bother me that hitting extra targets reduces the GWF's damage but then buff's it through various stacks and even debuffs your target. It could just do more damage without the juggling, though it would be boring otherwise. It just seems silly to lower the damage for doing a certain action while buffing the damage at the same time through the same action. It's...boggling. (Specifically, I'm talking about Destroyer and the three target minimum without feats.)
Take the damage reduction away from hitting multiple targets, see how it goes. Just one halfway thought through idea.
I have been kicked too even though my "sorry *** game mechanic score" , we hear that the elitists call it "gear score" is in the 10k range. Blame the game mechanics for needing a gear score and not the actual D&D rules to fight with, but then what did you expect from Cryptic and PWE?
You should be fine for running anything up to epic pirates after that gg GWF.
Extinction - GWF
Yeah, it can. As long as you use WMS, then Reaping, then another WMS you'll have it all along. More ranks in WMS extends the duration of the debuff. Stock, you're right. But only putting one point in it is a bit silly.
Nah, it's because it absolutely annihilates every dungeon I use it in. As I've said, that might change at level 60 but it works great otherwise. I've tried wicked strikes, and it carried me until I had my second rank of WMS, but I like the big numbers. Lets not forget that Unstoppable speeds the charge time on Reaping Strike, just as it does with every other attack. I should mention you can toss two fast-cast Reaping Strikes before the debuff from WMS falls off. WMS is purely for the debuff, and the stack maintenance.
To be honest, I tried running WMS and WS side-by-side and in tandem and eventually I just decided both were nearly identical in damage so there wasn't a point in using both. If I'm in a situation where I need to dodge often, I just use WMS by itself and pop them with a fully charged RS when I can. 25% extra damage to Reaping Strike to single targets is a bigger deal than you know when you combine a ton of debuffs.
I can understand using WMS if you're an initiator build. I was not talking about an initator build. I shouldn't have said wicked strikes is terrible, I should have said Destroyers don't need it. It should be a clue when two of the feats in Destroyer have to do with WMS and RS. It's really not rocket science. Just try it out. If you have and hate it, fine, but know that I like big f'ing numbers and RS does that nicely with no cooldown and just a bit of stack maintenance.
i like reaping strike a lot. but I'm not gonna tell it's worth the charge bar or that it's better than SS/WS(WMS as well) because I don't think so(the GWF as a whole imo). Honestly, you are the first person i see claiming reaping strike is good and one of the few saying the class is in no need of buffs. anyways, if you are trying to prove RS is as good as you claim and the GWF is balanced you need to consider using a more believable context in which not everything goes according to plan (interrupts on RS, other classes performances in a given role and overall, for exemples). because right now you are giving your glorified opinion as if they were facts in the most ideal situations and then going so far as saying, and I quote, "myth busted".
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
The unfortunate thing about this is what you'd expect it to be. With the amount of threat Slam draws, it's usually a bad idea to follow it up with crescendo's long animation (that doesn't allow for health pots or unstoppable to interrupt it) unless you're sitting in a cleric circle.
That being said, I'm pretty sure it's a bug and it'll get fixed. Have fun with it while it lasts. I surprised a couple TRs with my damage output on some dungeons.
First off, it's not really a 'hybrid' class. You have to spec for most of that anyways to get those abilities, like actually being tanky, which kills your dps. We went through all of this in Classic WoW with the 'hybrid tax' and it showed how much it never worked as at end game, pallies and druids were seriously under-represented in raid groups. Blizzard finally fixed it, to some degree in BC and finally in WotLK, where those classes were actually not only viable, but sought after classes in raids. A resto druid was not a tank, likewise a tanking druid couldn't heal for ****, so why tax them? All it does is make them useless.
You're mode of thinking is old and outdated and has proven to be counter productive in the past. With decades of experience in how these formats work in other games, how is it PWE doesn't know this and manages to make the same pitfalls again? Currently there's only 5 classes in the game and 2 of them are broken. People aren't going to stick around very long when half the classes in the game are shunned at end game and they keep pumping out cosmetic items in the Zen store and take a year to fix classes. With everything that's been done in MMOs over the passed 15 years, gamers shouldn't have to relive old design mistakes and programmers have no excuse to make them, and you have no leg to stand on trying to defend it. It's nothing more than HAMSTER poor game design. Get with the modern times k? thx.
GWF is just a hopeless , overnerfed class , not worth wasting ur time to improve even ultra late game it sucks, just face it , cry then go reroll anything else
I just ran my first Spider instance, tanked it without a healer, and topped every chart. I'll be the first to admit I fell twice, but both times the team picked me up before death. I also drank probably a good 30 potions.
Yeah, it's pre-60 and it was a random queue but like I said I just haven't seen it yet. Until I do, I'll continue having a blast charging into mobs and tearing stuff in half. Just thought I'd share what I'm doing.
It boils down to use the GWF tanking abilities with 100% DPS gear with mostly destroyer feats.
EDIT:
If the only thing you care about in the world is the highest damage delt column of the dungeon report you should be a rogue. That's just how it is, and it will likely never change. I personally like to face tank and do tons of damage while doing it. I also like to help my team by taking their damage for them. At the very least, if you don't get highest kill number and highest damage taken in the instance you're definitely doing it wrong.
PVP:
You DON'T Need a dps boost.
I've fought many GWF that have completely shredded me up. And I've seen ones fighting alongside me that have torn enemies in half and stunlocked them to death.
The fact is, No matter what you do people will not be satisfied. Purely because people blame everything but themselves when something isn't going how they want it to be.
If you want ultimate balance. remove all the classes and give all classes block, dodge + self heals and dps and defence and stealth.
And if you are not satisfied reroll.
If you were expecting something else. Reroll.
If you are not getting groups - Find a static.
PVE:
Increase Number of targets hit by all skills. AOE class should be aoe exceptional.
Give a Aoe pve Damage increase based on how many mobs are being hit.
E.G 8 mobs = double damage.
After threat is fixed. Give them more threat options and damage reduction whilst doing threat increased Skills. - "When using blabla - damage taken is reduced by 50%"
The high gear score GWF's are generally NOT complaining about lack of damage or numbers as much as being irrelevant to the highest level of content due to the devs direction in dungeon design. Our AOE damage should be far ahead of the other classes which it is not but that is still livable. Every other class is the true leader at something. GWF is not the clear in the spotlight leader at anything.
The GF is the best at taking hits, but like the GWF - that role is also mostly useless at end game.
The 10k+ GS GWF's that are at later tier 2 realize we are useless to the design of the content.
Extinction - GWF
See I this just doesn't really make sense. While I agree that some aspects of TR/CW/GF/DC could use a tweak here and there, I think the more sensible solution is to buff the one class that seems to fall slightly below the others, which is the GWF. Buffing their ability more DD against a single target, by way of tweaking an encounter or at-will power would be a huge step on putting GWF on par with the other classes.
That's why I keep saying that no buff or change to the GWF is going to change that fact. Begging to be #1 in the damage column just to get a chance to run the content is ludicrous. If you only need strong single target damage and strong giant AoE control abilities to finish end-game, than that obviously leaves out GWF and GF. Every fighting-man class is useless. We're not a special snowflake in being screwed over just because we're GWF.
GWF does the job it was designed to do incredibly well. It's just that they designed the GWF to do something that isn't needed. Like if you designed a class that one shots a certain type of enemy, but sucks versus everything else, but then in end game content you never see that particular enemy. Of course, no one will take you because you are irrelevant. You still one-shot a particular enemy though. (In this example, if you can't understand a simile STFU.)
I mean I expected to mash somebody out of the earth's surface with my 2-handed great sword, not to be pounded up my *** by 2 piece of sticks or a ball to my face.
Amen. I installed the ACT parser with the NW plugin to watch DPS through encounters (total damage done is such a bull**** stat). When we do fight trash, as opposed to jettisoning them off cliffs, I gain on the TR and stay ahead of the CW in my groups. When we get to the boss, however, it's scary how fast the DPS goes in favor of the TR. But I can live with that. It's funny, my TR buddy keeps telling me about his 45K crits and how much more damage he does than me, but I tell him my screen is a veritable collage of yellows and oranges when I am in combat, MANY NUMBERS!!!! Still at the end of the run, he's about 20% ahead of me every time.
tl/dr: We're working right as AOE DPS vacuum cleaners. But our lack of utility beyond that makes us expendable in the current dungeon design.
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i think the problem some people are having is that they find themselves possibly not always attacking the target due to not wanting people to ***** when we get hurt and possibly die.(this also affect our buffs/debuffs)
altho i have no problem with sprint i can see why people don't like it it isn't as effective as the other classes dodge but at the same time we can use this alot more often and can cover a good distance.
i will say certain aspects of us do need to be tweaked i don't like the idea of getting to teir 2 before certain feats actually start to show their effect.
if these could be more lower lvl friendly without then becoming an op feat late game then that would be cool.
i think the one thing we should remember is not only us are having problems with certain aspects of our classes ( except TR ) but ours seem to be more obvious atm than the rest.
I'm still fairly new to this game but each of my friends rolled a different class and GWF is the ONLY class that has any sort of "you deal less damage because of this" that I have seen.
Unstoppable - If I were to take PCP or Steroids, i would say that would be the equivalent of using the Unstoppable skill, why would I be dealing less damage when i'm releasing the limiters of my own physical prowess? If you're 'unstoppable' wouldnt that mean that you'd be dealing more damage to attribute to that 'unstoppable' buff?
It's ridiculous to nerf our damage for doing more, if anything, we should receive a damage/threat BUFF for hitting multiple targets.
GWF LFG please carry me to loots until they fix my class tyvm.
We might be needed if there's a REALLY good reason to farm ashes in Castle Never necessitating killing mobs without throwing them off the map.
I'm with ya Space, and agree with what you are saying. I'm a big advocate for this class as it is pretty good at its role. Just wish its role was useful at end game.
Extinction - GWF
Translation: Your class suck because it is supposed to SUCK, reroll or quit, GG.
+1
Laughed so hard with your translation.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
"precisation" Does this word exist in English ? Lol, maybe I cant play my fave class since its a wimp but at least Im learning new words and improving my english
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.