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Why wipe the open beta?
kanemeister
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Every1 is complaining that we need to wipe from all the exploits in the game. Why just just open a brand new server once they get outta "beta" Every1 will be level 1 and the economy will be less corrupted till every1 drops $200 again.
I think the whole "open beta" thing is genius. They get all the try hards to drop their paychecks on this game. It funds the game and shows all the glitchs and exploits. Then they just open 3 new servers and let the release start once all the bugs are fixed in the game.
If they were smart they would not allow transfer of "open beta" characters to the new servers, but most likely a "fee" would be applied to allow it.
I think the whole "open beta" thing is genius. They get all the try hards to drop their paychecks on this game. It funds the game and shows all the glitchs and exploits. Then they just open 3 new servers and let the release start once all the bugs are fixed in the game.
If they were smart they would not allow transfer of "open beta" characters to the new servers, but most likely a "fee" would be applied to allow it.
Post edited by kanemeister on
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the every1 you are referring to is an extremely small minority of jaded, bitter, angry MMO'ers that will HAMSTER and moan and sour on any little thing they can. It's what they do & who they are.
Wow are you clueless. Speak for yourself kid.
askopdkapok is part of the 'every1'
Really? Please elaborate Mr. Bernanke. Enlighten us all. Details and specifications please.
Foundry exploits allowing people to level from 1-60 in a couple hours.
Gear exploits that allow mobs to be slaughtered en-masse and tons of gear farmed up.
PvP exploits allowing people to farm glory and buy purple gear without doing anything.
Dungeon exploits where people could kill a boss, force it to reset, then kill it again and repeat until they got lots of gear.
Etc.
Are you simply sticking your head in the sand and saying "I don't see anything!", or just trolling?
He was looking for a detailed analysis on how the game's economy has been "thrown out of whack," as you put it. Simply listing the issues doesn't necessarily provide insight on how the game's economy won't recover, as so many around here like to argue.
All of those things made things that are farmed(usually desireable) in the AH cheaper than they would otherwise be. That is a good thing for most people especially those starting out. Now some things that are desireable are more expensive than they would otherwise be because of this, but most of the desireable things are either Zen or have really seemed to have been affected negatively by this glut in the market(Nightmares, Phorea, AD companions). Hell, even the AD/Zen conversion rate has remained fairly steady throughout these exploits.
Yes, some people have gotten rich exploiting, but anyone who thinks the economy is ruined for most people isn't paying attention. Hell, even people who didn't exploit have many ways to farm AD left to them, they just aren't the same farming methods that the exploiters were using.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
All those exploits led to a glut of "rare" items being dumped onto the server. When supposedly "rare" items become commonplace, and huge amounts of currency starts pouring into the economy, it starts getting thrown off substantially.
It's not saying it CAN'T recover, but to an extent the damage has already been done. It's akin to the old adage "closing the barn door after the horse is already out". Is a wipe ABSOLUTELY necessary? No. Would it help the game's economy to have everyone start on an even playing field after fixing a lot of the exploits? Yes.
It depends on how you define "good", really. Sure, some people will enjoy the idea that you can just go to the AH and buy a full set of epic gear. Other people see it as an aspect of "pay to win" -- if I can drop $20 and buy a bunch of zen, convert it to AD, then simply go buy my epic gear? Why bother actually WORKING for it? Why bother running the dungeons where it drops? I can just buy my way to end-game.
Additionally, when you see people who have tens of millions of AD due to farming exploits, that can push the game's economy out of whack as well.
How? By How much? What are the numbers? Everyone is a Mathematician around here now that we need it no one brought their calculators?
Numbers, details. Exactly what happened? How much did you currently have for sale? How much did you sell it for? How much did you lose because of said exploits? What were you able top buy it for? How many did you buy? How much money did you lose because of this?
I commend you for taking the time to expand your argument, but I don't think the logic holds water. In order for "huge amounts of currency to pour into the economy," people would have had to buy zen to convert to AD to make that happen because of the 24K limit on earning refined currency in game. (Note: You can earn more than this by playing the AH, but this is just redistribution of currency that was already in existence.) So, if you want to argue that cheaper prices on the AH made people buy more zen to convert to AD to buy more gear (which I don't think is likely to be the case), then you may have an argument that more money is in the economy. But, more than likely, what you have is a case of the existing ADs (through the founders packs and 24K that can be earned per character per day) being redistributed to those that capitalized on the bugs to make the most money.
All in all, while this does have an impact on the economy, I don't see a redistribution of existing currency having a massive effect on the economy, especially for a long period of time. It's certainly not fair, but it's not the doom and gloom that so many seem to think it is.
None of the exploits caused any additional currency to flood into the economy. As far as I'm aware even the multiple chest loot bug didn't give any additional ADs. All any exploit did was shift wealth from one group to another. The economy is thrown off, yes, rare items are cheap, but I, again, fail to see how that is a bad thing for most players.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
This man speaks the truth. Fairness aside, because it's certainly not fair, no additional currency came into the game, so for the average player, the economy is not "ruined," and the Negative Nancies on this forum are just being Negative Nancies.
Why not look at the price of Nightmares in the AH over time. Throughout all these exploits they have remained fairly stable at 1-1.5 million. If these exploits were causing these people with huge amounts of AD(that they got from others not out of thin air) to be throwing their weight around we would expect these prices to rise because the amount of AD would be concentrated in a few. Same with crafting tools, look at their price as the profession pack farming was going on, they were fairly stable and low priced, look at them now, they are rising in price because the method of farming them was cut off. Look at the AD conversion rate, it is actually falling, despite the concentration of wealth being greater post exploit than it was pre-exploits. If the exploits were causing these people with tons of AD to buy Zen to get what they desire this would not be the case.
I don't understand these questions. Presumably someone was going to farm something, since there were exploits they couldn't farm as many of them as other people. All this means is that your method of farming AD was not as effective. The only people who were affected negatively by the exploits were farmers. But here's the thing, there were things that are farmable that were not part of an exploit, so if you really wanted to farm you still could, I can tell you several things that sell well that are completely farmable to this day, people are just pissed because what they wanted to farm wasn't as farmable because it was cheap. I guess? I can't see what is wrong with cheap desiable goods in the AH. Maybe you can tell me?
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
I'll reply to both of you here, since it would essentially be reiterating the same things twice otherwise.
Where do you think those tens of millions of AD came from? People buying zen and converting it to AD -- the trickle you get for invocations/crafting/etc aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to that. When you have more and more rare/epic items showing up on the AH, the prices (generally) start to drop, yes. While this is "good" for the consumer who wants to buy the items, the more that show up lead towards a "pay to win" state: if everything is so cheap, why NOT just buy $10-20 worth of zen, convert it to AD, and buy your epic gear? Why bother actually farming it, or even going into the dungeons where it drops?
Personally, I find the idea of being able to convert zen to AD to be a flawed one; it allows people to throw money at the store, convert it to in-game currency, and screw with the market directly. If I were to go put 1000 Epic Swords of Ultimate Slaughter on the AH for 50AD each, that would be AMAZING for the consumer -- but not good for the economy.
I'd just rather not see the auction house become an extension of the cash shop. Perhaps I'm overly paranoid about it? Who knows. I've played far too many MMOs over the last 15 years to just ignore it, though.
Did your forget that founders get 600K and 2 million ADs, depending on which pack they bought? Considering that these are also the most likely people to have hit 60 earlier because of the head start, and, thus, be the ones in the market for the level 60 epics, I don't think it's likely, nor is there any evidence, that people bought more Zen because AH prices were lower. Like we said, I think the vast majority of this is a case of redistribution, which doesn't have much of a long-term effect on the economy.
You also have to consider that any theoretical increase in Zen to AD conversions are offset by the things the game does to take currency out of the game, such as AH posting fees and cuts on any auctions sold.
Reading this post I don't think you understand how the AD/Zen Exchange works. You can't just buy Zen and convert it to AD in a vacuum. Someone needs to have the Zen or the AD(whichever you desire.) You can't just buy Zen and magically have AD because of it. If more people buy Zen, it has 0 effect on the amount of AD in the economy. The only things that add AD into the economy are, Founders Packs AD(2 mil or 600,000 or both) and refining rough AD.
That means the max amount of AD in the economy is Founders Packs AD + Refined AD(which is at most 24k x number of characters x number of days the game is out) + Jewered Idol(which I believe are regular not rough AD) nothing the exploits did changed this fact.
The real number of AD in the economy is Founders Pack AD + Refined AD + Jeweled Idol - AD lost through sinks(auction house cut, taking out gems, speeding up certain activities, etc.) - Again, none of the exploits changed this fact. In fact, cheaper prices cause more AD to be sunk because more people can afford goods which means more transactions which means more money lost through the AH.
Edit: Technically you can buy AD that is added to the economy through the aforementioned Jeweled Idols but the rate at which this would be generated would be silly to do based on the price of AD/Zen in the AH and the number of boxes you would have to open to get the Jeweled Idol.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
So they got 600k zen in addition to the 2 million AD? I wasn't aware of that, no -- I've never been one to throw down cash on "early adopter" plans like that, so I never bother reading about them. That could account for a large part of the AD floating around, then, given you could sell a few thousand of that for another few million AD at a time.
Though considering the exploits that allowed a LOT of people to zip to 60th in a day or two, there's a much larger market for the end-game epics than just the early adopters and founders.
As I said, I'd much rather divorce the AH from AD entirely, and just use in-game currency (of which AD really isn't one, as you can "buy" it with cash). I'm leery of the AH becoming an extension of the cash shop.
No, nobody got any zen, just different level founders got different amounts of AD.
Ah. Saying "600k and 2 million AD" threw me off, it sounded like it was both, not "X to Y" or "X or Y".
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Shaudius, you should post this in every thread that pops up, so (hopefully) those begging for a wipe can see how foolish their argument in favor of one is.
"The game is ruined because of exploits! Wipe it!"
"No! Don't wipe it, you're just jaded, you're ignorant!"
and every other couple of pages you'll see "Because Beta!!!!!"
The end.
Me thinks you don't understand where Astral Diamonds come from. You any Zen spent on Astral Diamonds doesn't create more Astral Diamonds. All it does is allow someone who has Astral Diamonds to trade them for Zen with another player.
Someone still has to go out and get those Astral Diamonds by running daily missions, invoking, finding statues, etc. That is how you manufacture Astral Diamonds to add to the economy and none of the exploits created Astral Diamonds. They just created gear that could be used to trade for existing Astral Diamonds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No, I do understand that aspect of it. When I was wondering about it I started poking around at the "AD/zen exchange" in-game to see what it would cost for certain things, like respecs and such.
Considering how little AD seems to actually come from refining (even at 24k a day under ideal circumstances, which most people won't have, it would take nearly three months to equal what a single founder at 2 million has, or a month for a "mere" 600k founder), the majority of the AD in the economy seems to have come from people spending money on the game. And given that the AH is run on an astral diamond transaction, it means that it's far easier -- and will likely be a much more tempting option -- for people to simply buy zen/AD and use that to make their purchases, which I am highly leery of.