No, I do understand that aspect of it. When I was wondering about it I started poking around at the "AD/zen exchange" in-game to see what it would cost for certain things, like respecs and such.
Considering how little AD seems to actually come from refining (even at 24k a day under ideal circumstances, which most people won't have, it would take nearly three months to equal what a single founder at 2 million has, or a month for a "mere" 600k founder), the majority of the AD in the economy seems to have come from people spending money on the game. And given that the AH is run on an astral diamond transaction, it means that it's far easier -- and will likely be a much more tempting option -- for people to simply buy zen/AD and use that to make their purchases, which I am highly leery of.
And once the founders pack are no longer on sale and the founders have spent their initial ADs, which won't take as long as you think because those amounts don't last forever, then the economy will be a self-managing, self-correcting machine that rides out any abnormalities caused by things such as the recent exploits. That's the logical argument against wiping the servers.
(I can understand that your reservations about being able to buy into in-game currency, but that's a feature of this F2P model, so you either have to live with it or not play the game.)
And once the founders pack are no longer on sale and the founders have spent their initial ADs, which won't take as long as you think because those amounts don't last forever, then the economy will be a self-managing, self-correcting machine that rides out any abnormalities caused by things such as the recent exploits. That's the logical argument against wiping the servers.
(I can understand that your reservations about being able to buy into in-game currency, but that's a feature of this F2P model, so you either have to live with it or not play the game.)
The only real reservations I have are due to the fact that I'm fairly adamantly against spending money on in-game cash (I'd rather earn everything I get), and having seen in-game economies go completely ***-over-teakettle (a phrase I love, which I've inherited from my mum) in other games due to exploits like what happened here when the devs didn't manage to squash and eliminate the results quickly enough, I'd simply rather not see it happen yet again.
I don't care so much about people "paying to win", as there's nothing TO "win" in an MMO that isn't built around pvp. I just like a healthy in-game economy where I can feel secure spending my character's cash. Given the somewhat insane prices for some things, though (such as making a set of armor look different), I doubt I'll be visiting the AH much anyway, except for very minor things.
I actually saw an argument in one of the "wipe or we're doomed" threads that loot ninjaing wouldn't be profitable due to the exploits. My response to that was, of course, goody. Despite claims to the contrary, the economy here is far from beyond hope.
Here's an example of a borked economy:
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
0
kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Meh, the economy was ruined since day -4. When all the $200 Heroes logged in with their free 2 MILLION AD. I'm level 60 (legit) and from everything i've seen 2 Million AD (not including AH sales) is about what I would expect a full time, 40hrs/week, player to amass within a year.
And then the Guardian folks like myself were given 500k AD at the start. Which is why I roll my eyes at people who've said its easy to make AD, just sell an Epic for 200k AD on the AH, lol! But of course almost nobody would've been able to pay anything close to those prices without all the "free" AD that had already flooded the market on day -4.
True, people could've always used the Zen store to buy/convert AD, but the prices would've been entirely different without the massive influx of Pre-order ADs.
So if you want to blame anyone for wrecking the economy, blame PWE for injecting Billions of ADs into the game's economy through pre-orders.
It seems to me that if people are spending real money on per-character items in the Zen store, that wiping out the characters and those items would be a very bad idea.
I hope they do wipe the servers clean. Way to many people took advantage of exploits and profited, not to mention they ruined the Auction economy as well.
I say wipe the system, and while you at it change the loot system too. No more epic BOE, everything BOP and NEED roll option unlocked only for those that have the class that can use it. BOOM!, no more exploiters gathering tons of epics to be sold and ruin the auction. Get it done.
.. the majority of the AD in the economy seems to have come from people spending money on the game. And given that the AH is run on an astral diamond transaction, it means that it's far easier -- and will likely be a much more tempting option -- for people to simply buy zen/AD and use that to make their purchases, which I am highly leery of.
You say you understand and then you say this. Again, the only way spending money on the game generates AD is through founder's packs, which will not be available anymore very shortly. The majority of AD in the economy comes from aggregate daily farming.
Think about it this way.
Hero = 2,000,000 AD
Guardian = 600,000 AD
Reasonable farming with 2-3 hours of doing dailies and praying = 15,000-24,000 AD. Every. Day. Per. Person.
That means that all it takes is less than 100 people farming in a day to equal the total amount of AD a Hero got. If 10k people log in and do their dailies every day(a low number), that means that every day the game is out 75 xs the amount of AD that one Hero founder got is added to the economy. So while the Heroes got as many AD as it would take one person 100 days to farm, the total number of players farming every day is at least 100xs the number of Hero packs sold, and therefore the Hero pack AD is a drop in the bucket, and becomes less and less over time.
Exchanging the Zen you bought for AD has nothing to do with this and, again, adds nothing to the economy.
Reasonable farming with 2-3 hours of doing dailies and praying = 15,000-24,000 AD. Every. Day. Per. Person.
Really? Because when I do dailies, I get 5k from doing the three types (3000, 1000, 1000). Praying gets me about 200-1000 per day. That's far short of 15-24k. Am I just getting insanely unlucky with invocations, then? Because none of my 5 characters have ever managed to make 12-20k from invocation in a day. Is there some secret method I should be using to make 12k from invoking? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious. Because what I get per day seems to be VERY far behind what you say should be "reasonably accomplished in a couple hours".
Really? Because when I do dailies, I get 5k from doing the three types (3000, 1000, 1000). Praying gets me about 200-1000 per day. That's far short of 15-24k. Am I just getting insanely unlucky with invocations, then? Because none of my 5 characters have ever managed to make 12-20k from invocation in a day. Is there some secret method I should be using to make 12k from invoking? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious. Because what I get per day seems to be VERY far behind what you say should be "reasonably accomplished in a couple hours".
There is a bug where many people are still getting double AD.
I actually saw an argument in one of the "wipe or we're doomed" threads that loot ninjaing wouldn't be profitable due to the exploits. My response to that was, of course, goody. Despite claims to the contrary, the economy here is far from beyond hope.
Here's an example of a borked economy:
what does that even mean? I'm trying to make sense of it, but do you mean because some people are undercutting others? Im confused
Really? Because when I do dailies, I get 5k from doing the three types (3000, 1000, 1000). Praying gets me about 500-1000 per day. That's far short of 15-24k. Am I just getting insanely unlucky with invocations, then? Because none of my 5 characters have ever managed to make 12-20k from invocation in a day. Is there some secret method I should be using to make 12k from invoking? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious. Because what I get per day seems to be VERY far behind what you say should be "reasonably accomplished in a couple hours".
I do one daily, and not even every day, but my Foundry daily now pays 4k AD. This isn't including doing any Invocations, no AD from Leadership leveling, no AD from any of the other dailies, I don't even know what they would pay, as I'm not all that excited about PvP in a D&D title, it was added to broaden the player base, I'm not going to bother with joining daily dungeon or skirmish quests, unless I'm getting ready to actually do a dungeon/skirmish. So I can see how one could do it, I'm just not all that excited about doing it. The 600k AD I got with my Founder's package has still yet to be picked up because just doing the things I am doing is providing me with more than enough AD for my current needs, and buying gear from the AH isn't the way I'd go. I'll get in groups with my guild and earn my gear the old fashioned way, dropping it. The only people that are actually hurt by the plummeting prices on epic gear are the people that feel the need to NEED on every drop in the dungeons, so they can sell it. <--- admitted generalization, but I have actually seen that argument used to support a wipe.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I'm a HoTN Founder, I have the 2m AD to distribute between five character slots...I don't believe this corrupted the system, I love the game. I don't believe we need a wipe, that being said, I would love the wipe to start over, lol, there are several things I would do differently if given the chance, but isn't that the way life goes?
I do feel it is way too easy to obtain rare gear. It's not so "Rare" at all...
If it were a little harder to level, that wouldn't hurt my feelings either...
As for "Pay to Win"...what are you gonna win?...the winner there is Cryptic and PWE as it should be...this is the best game ever in my opinion.
BTW...anyone got a vorpal sword for sale?...I haven't seen any Githyanki guilds yet...should be safe enough to carry one around.
what does that even mean? I'm trying to make sense of it, but do you mean because some people are undercutting others? Im confused
The gear is selling for billions in in game currency. If you were to attempt to roll a new character there, you would be forced to quit, because, quite frankly, I have several toons there above 150, and I can't afford the "cheap" stuff listed. That's a borked economy, it cannot support new players since new players cannot afford to get the stuff they need to play even remotely competitively. They let the economy go for literally years w/out adding any real viable sinks, and now, unless you have friends already in game with that kind of cash to throw around, you're not going to last.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
0
sabinocsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
A new wipe...
NO THANKS!
I have played a dwarf cleric up to level 51, then I realized that I didn't like the dwarves! So I rerolled another cleric which is now level 55. I've done this without exploits or tricks, just pure questing(no dungeons, no skirmishes, only foundries). Rerolling a cleric for the third time would be a good reason for me to start playing another game!
I do one daily, and not even every day, but my Foundry daily now pays 4k AD. This isn't including doing any Invocations, no AD from Leadership leveling, no AD from any of the other dailies, I don't even know what they would pay, as I'm not all that excited about PvP in a D&D title, it was added to broaden the player base, I'm not going to bother with joining daily dungeon or skirmish quests, unless I'm getting ready to actually do a dungeon/skirmish. So I can see how one could do it, I'm just not all that excited about doing it. The 600k AD I got with my Founder's package has still yet to be picked up because just doing the things I am doing is providing me with more than enough AD for my current needs, and buying gear from the AH isn't the way I'd go. I'll get in groups with my guild and earn my gear the old fashioned way, dropping it. The only people that are actually hurt by the plummeting prices on epic gear are the people that feel the need to NEED on every drop in the dungeons, so they can sell it. <--- admitted generalization, but I have actually seen that argument used to support a wipe.
Invocations seriously only seem to net me about 200-1000 per day (per character, of course). So on a good day call it 1000.
Daily dungeon: 3000
Daily skirmish: 1000
I don't usually bother with foundry stuff, as I've run into way too many bugs where the client crashes trying to zone into them (it's happened about 6 times out of 10, so I gave up).
That's 5k. Where's my other 10-20k?
I don't bother with the AH that much, to be honest. I've picked up a couple shirts/pants because my own crafting isn't high enough -- freaking time-sink! -- but other stuff does seem to have an exceptionally high cost attached. Respeccing my cleric's feats at 36th would cost something like 50k. Finding a suit of armor I really like the look of, and wanting to use that appearance instead of the ugly one I have now? Another 15k.
Maybe there's some secret method for getting 24k/day, but I haven't found it. I'm not a big "farmer", either, so I don't really want to just do dungeons over and over and over.
I don't usually bother with foundry stuff, as I've run into way too many bugs where the client crashes trying to zone into them (it's happened about 6 times out of 10, so I gave up).
Have you tried turning off on demand patching from the launcher?
You say you understand and then you say this. Again, the only way spending money on the game generates AD is through founder's packs, which will not be available anymore very shortly.
This is simply not true. AD is generated by spending money on keys and turning in idols.
Hm. I haven't tried that, no. I wasn't aware that was even an option. I'll give it a try, though!
Yeah open the launcher and on the top of it is an options link to click that opens a menu with a button to click for disable on demand patching. You then download the full game instead of downloading parts of it as needed. It's helped a few people I know that dc upon loading onto a map they've never played before.
All I know is this talk of wipes has screwed up the AH big time on Dragon no one is buying, they should have the courtesy to tell us one way or the other soon.
This is simply not true. AD is generated by spending money on keys and turning in idols.
As I said in another post in the thread, that was a shorthand reply. I don't understand the need to be pedantic in a thread without actually reading the whole conversation.
Besides, if you're buying Zen to buy lockboxes just to get idols to turn into AD you're doing it wrong. The amount of AD generated this way is likely very small.
Invocations seriously only seem to net me about 200-1000 per day (per character, of course). So on a good day call it 1000.
Daily dungeon: 3000
Daily skirmish: 1000
I don't usually bother with foundry stuff, as I've run into way too many bugs where the client crashes trying to zone into them (it's happened about 6 times out of 10, so I gave up).
That's 5k. Where's my other 10-20k?
I don't bother with the AH that much, to be honest. I've picked up a couple shirts/pants because my own crafting isn't high enough -- freaking time-sink! -- but other stuff does seem to have an exceptionally high cost attached. Respeccing my cleric's feats at 36th would cost something like 50k. Finding a suit of armor I really like the look of, and wanting to use that appearance instead of the ugly one I have now? Another 15k.
Maybe there's some secret method for getting 24k/day, but I haven't found it. I'm not a big "farmer", either, so I don't really want to just do dungeons over and over and over.
You are only invoking once?
You can invoke three times in a day and get EXP/RAD, after that it just gives you a buff.
I have seen anywhere from 300 to 1.3k (double weekend I believe)
You can invoke three times in a day and get EXP/RAD, after that it just gives you a buff.
Generally I'm invoking far more than once per day. Sometimes 5-6 times. However, when I invoke I rarely get more than 500 AD at a time, sometimes less. I think ONCE I got like 800 or so. Do founders get better rewards for invoking? Because mine have been pretty lackluster.
Every1 is complaining that we need to wipe from all the exploits in the game. Why just just open a brand new server once they get outta "beta" Every1 will be level 1 and the economy will be less corrupted till every1 drops $200 again.
I think the whole "open beta" thing is genius. They get all the try hards to drop their paychecks on this game. It funds the game and shows all the glitchs and exploits. Then they just open 3 new servers and let the release start once all the bugs are fixed in the game.
If they were smart they would not allow transfer of "open beta" characters to the new servers, but most likely a "fee" would be applied to allow it.
It's like your behind after taking a large dump. You have to wipe away all the HAMSTER.
Open Beta games do not wipe unless it was specifically stated publicly that they are going to wipe.
To the people who think a wipe will be the magical fix. I am going to tell you that it won't. You know why?
With every new big patch or new content some new bug or exploit will happen and with that you people would want a new wipe every single time something like that happens?
Essentially you people are just out to kill this game and not improving it one bit.
The current state of the economy is fine as it is nothing dramatic when it comes to auction house values.
Once new content arrives ALL the old HAMSTER will become obsolete and the market shifts again.
People forget that some people play this game to get those random achievements and other things.
Doing a total wipe is just ****ing stupid and only people who ask for that have absolutely 0 clue on how a game is developed nor how it works.
People are HAMSTER and consumed with what everyone else is doing instead of doing their own thing and enjoying themselves. Nothing is getting wiped. Everything is totally cool and people are having fun playing the game.
the every1 you are referring to is an extremely small minority of jaded, bitter, angry MMO'ers that will HAMSTER and moan and sour on any little thing they can. It's what they do & who they are.
I see your are invading another thread with your exploit/cheating supporting HAMSTER again. Already established that you are prolly one of those people that found ways to exploit the system because I don't see anyone that can support cheating otherwise.
There's no doubt there is a strong case of a wipe, this game will be so corrupted otherwise it'll break in a few weeks when and IF it ever launches officially.
Let me sum this thread up for you in a simple easy to understand story.
Generic mmo xyz has been running for 6months and there are loads of max lvl players with all the higest lvl gear and buttloads of money.
You (please wipe the servers whiners) join mmo xyz for the first time 6 months & 1 day after launch. You find yourself in EXACTLY the same situation NW is in now, do you whine that the servers need to be wiped so everyone can have a equal fresh start? -NO YOU DON'T.
Who care's how players got max lvl or top tier gear or how long it took them?! In the end the only difference is the time it took and it makes no difference to the long term end result.
All you are doing with these threads is go "whaaaa someone else has better things than me and I'm jealous"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni - Go watch it alone
Comments
And once the founders pack are no longer on sale and the founders have spent their initial ADs, which won't take as long as you think because those amounts don't last forever, then the economy will be a self-managing, self-correcting machine that rides out any abnormalities caused by things such as the recent exploits. That's the logical argument against wiping the servers.
(I can understand that your reservations about being able to buy into in-game currency, but that's a feature of this F2P model, so you either have to live with it or not play the game.)
The only real reservations I have are due to the fact that I'm fairly adamantly against spending money on in-game cash (I'd rather earn everything I get), and having seen in-game economies go completely ***-over-teakettle (a phrase I love, which I've inherited from my mum) in other games due to exploits like what happened here when the devs didn't manage to squash and eliminate the results quickly enough, I'd simply rather not see it happen yet again.
I don't care so much about people "paying to win", as there's nothing TO "win" in an MMO that isn't built around pvp. I just like a healthy in-game economy where I can feel secure spending my character's cash. Given the somewhat insane prices for some things, though (such as making a set of armor look different), I doubt I'll be visiting the AH much anyway, except for very minor things.
Here's an example of a borked economy:
And then the Guardian folks like myself were given 500k AD at the start. Which is why I roll my eyes at people who've said its easy to make AD, just sell an Epic for 200k AD on the AH, lol! But of course almost nobody would've been able to pay anything close to those prices without all the "free" AD that had already flooded the market on day -4.
True, people could've always used the Zen store to buy/convert AD, but the prices would've been entirely different without the massive influx of Pre-order ADs.
So if you want to blame anyone for wrecking the economy, blame PWE for injecting Billions of ADs into the game's economy through pre-orders.
I say wipe the system, and while you at it change the loot system too. No more epic BOE, everything BOP and NEED roll option unlocked only for those that have the class that can use it. BOOM!, no more exploiters gathering tons of epics to be sold and ruin the auction. Get it done.
You say you understand and then you say this. Again, the only way spending money on the game generates AD is through founder's packs, which will not be available anymore very shortly. The majority of AD in the economy comes from aggregate daily farming.
Think about it this way.
Hero = 2,000,000 AD
Guardian = 600,000 AD
Reasonable farming with 2-3 hours of doing dailies and praying = 15,000-24,000 AD. Every. Day. Per. Person.
That means that all it takes is less than 100 people farming in a day to equal the total amount of AD a Hero got. If 10k people log in and do their dailies every day(a low number), that means that every day the game is out 75 xs the amount of AD that one Hero founder got is added to the economy. So while the Heroes got as many AD as it would take one person 100 days to farm, the total number of players farming every day is at least 100xs the number of Hero packs sold, and therefore the Hero pack AD is a drop in the bucket, and becomes less and less over time.
Exchanging the Zen you bought for AD has nothing to do with this and, again, adds nothing to the economy.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
Really? Because when I do dailies, I get 5k from doing the three types (3000, 1000, 1000). Praying gets me about 200-1000 per day. That's far short of 15-24k. Am I just getting insanely unlucky with invocations, then? Because none of my 5 characters have ever managed to make 12-20k from invocation in a day. Is there some secret method I should be using to make 12k from invoking? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious. Because what I get per day seems to be VERY far behind what you say should be "reasonably accomplished in a couple hours".
There is a bug where many people are still getting double AD.
what does that even mean? I'm trying to make sense of it, but do you mean because some people are undercutting others? Im confused
I do one daily, and not even every day, but my Foundry daily now pays 4k AD. This isn't including doing any Invocations, no AD from Leadership leveling, no AD from any of the other dailies, I don't even know what they would pay, as I'm not all that excited about PvP in a D&D title, it was added to broaden the player base, I'm not going to bother with joining daily dungeon or skirmish quests, unless I'm getting ready to actually do a dungeon/skirmish. So I can see how one could do it, I'm just not all that excited about doing it. The 600k AD I got with my Founder's package has still yet to be picked up because just doing the things I am doing is providing me with more than enough AD for my current needs, and buying gear from the AH isn't the way I'd go. I'll get in groups with my guild and earn my gear the old fashioned way, dropping it. The only people that are actually hurt by the plummeting prices on epic gear are the people that feel the need to NEED on every drop in the dungeons, so they can sell it. <--- admitted generalization, but I have actually seen that argument used to support a wipe.
I do feel it is way too easy to obtain rare gear. It's not so "Rare" at all...
If it were a little harder to level, that wouldn't hurt my feelings either...
As for "Pay to Win"...what are you gonna win?...the winner there is Cryptic and PWE as it should be...this is the best game ever in my opinion.
BTW...anyone got a vorpal sword for sale?...I haven't seen any Githyanki guilds yet...should be safe enough to carry one around.
The gear is selling for billions in in game currency. If you were to attempt to roll a new character there, you would be forced to quit, because, quite frankly, I have several toons there above 150, and I can't afford the "cheap" stuff listed. That's a borked economy, it cannot support new players since new players cannot afford to get the stuff they need to play even remotely competitively. They let the economy go for literally years w/out adding any real viable sinks, and now, unless you have friends already in game with that kind of cash to throw around, you're not going to last.
NO THANKS!
I have played a dwarf cleric up to level 51, then I realized that I didn't like the dwarves! So I rerolled another cleric which is now level 55. I've done this without exploits or tricks, just pure questing(no dungeons, no skirmishes, only foundries). Rerolling a cleric for the third time would be a good reason for me to start playing another game!
Invocations seriously only seem to net me about 200-1000 per day (per character, of course). So on a good day call it 1000.
Daily dungeon: 3000
Daily skirmish: 1000
I don't usually bother with foundry stuff, as I've run into way too many bugs where the client crashes trying to zone into them (it's happened about 6 times out of 10, so I gave up).
That's 5k. Where's my other 10-20k?
I don't bother with the AH that much, to be honest. I've picked up a couple shirts/pants because my own crafting isn't high enough -- freaking time-sink! -- but other stuff does seem to have an exceptionally high cost attached. Respeccing my cleric's feats at 36th would cost something like 50k. Finding a suit of armor I really like the look of, and wanting to use that appearance instead of the ugly one I have now? Another 15k.
Maybe there's some secret method for getting 24k/day, but I haven't found it. I'm not a big "farmer", either, so I don't really want to just do dungeons over and over and over.
This is simply not true. AD is generated by spending money on keys and turning in idols.
Hm. I haven't tried that, no. I wasn't aware that was even an option. I'll give it a try, though!
Yeah open the launcher and on the top of it is an options link to click that opens a menu with a button to click for disable on demand patching. You then download the full game instead of downloading parts of it as needed. It's helped a few people I know that dc upon loading onto a map they've never played before.
As I said in another post in the thread, that was a shorthand reply. I don't understand the need to be pedantic in a thread without actually reading the whole conversation.
Besides, if you're buying Zen to buy lockboxes just to get idols to turn into AD you're doing it wrong. The amount of AD generated this way is likely very small.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
You are only invoking once?
You can invoke three times in a day and get EXP/RAD, after that it just gives you a buff.
I have seen anywhere from 300 to 1.3k (double weekend I believe)
Generally I'm invoking far more than once per day. Sometimes 5-6 times. However, when I invoke I rarely get more than 500 AD at a time, sometimes less. I think ONCE I got like 800 or so. Do founders get better rewards for invoking? Because mine have been pretty lackluster.
How much do you get per invocation?
It's like your behind after taking a large dump. You have to wipe away all the HAMSTER.
To the people who think a wipe will be the magical fix. I am going to tell you that it won't. You know why?
With every new big patch or new content some new bug or exploit will happen and with that you people would want a new wipe every single time something like that happens?
Essentially you people are just out to kill this game and not improving it one bit.
The current state of the economy is fine as it is nothing dramatic when it comes to auction house values.
Once new content arrives ALL the old HAMSTER will become obsolete and the market shifts again.
People forget that some people play this game to get those random achievements and other things.
Doing a total wipe is just ****ing stupid and only people who ask for that have absolutely 0 clue on how a game is developed nor how it works.
I see your are invading another thread with your exploit/cheating supporting HAMSTER again. Already established that you are prolly one of those people that found ways to exploit the system because I don't see anyone that can support cheating otherwise.
There's no doubt there is a strong case of a wipe, this game will be so corrupted otherwise it'll break in a few weeks when and IF it ever launches officially.
Generic mmo xyz has been running for 6months and there are loads of max lvl players with all the higest lvl gear and buttloads of money.
You (please wipe the servers whiners) join mmo xyz for the first time 6 months & 1 day after launch. You find yourself in EXACTLY the same situation NW is in now, do you whine that the servers need to be wiped so everyone can have a equal fresh start? -NO YOU DON'T.
Who care's how players got max lvl or top tier gear or how long it took them?! In the end the only difference is the time it took and it makes no difference to the long term end result.
All you are doing with these threads is go "whaaaa someone else has better things than me and I'm jealous"
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni - Go watch it alone
and by various people, you mean idiots who believe spending 40 dollars for a single mount is perfectly okay.