And what about those of us who have been playing the AH and zen exchange legit?
I took the astral diamonds I started with and some zen I had in my account to hugely multiply my astral and zen holdings by simply buying low selling high for days on end starting with the head start thursday.
Do players get their zen refunded? Ok great, what about the zen they made converting astrals on the exchange?
Do we get the option to cash out all of our zen back to our paypal/webmoney accounts IF they do a wipe?
Announcing you are doing a wipe will instantly **** the zen/astral ratio as everyone is going to be trying to convert to zen to ensure they start off after the reset with the biggest pocketbook possible. How do you work around that? Will zen/astral conversion rates be locked after an impending wipe is announced?
Wouldnt that be a bit unfair to lock players attempting to SELL zen at a set rate to keep it from falling through the floor? Someone in that deal is going to get the short end of the stick.
Will Cryptic and PWE suddenly just decide to value every players astral diamonds at a set exchange ratio and credit players with that much zen?
There is a lot more to simply hurr durr flipping a switch at some server farm and resetting everything.
Not a lot of people here or anywhere else seem to really get that.
All of these are good points and the answers we usually get from those in favor of a wipe is: "We don't care too bad so sad." That more than anything I think is what's going to keep it from happening.
It's easy to say that but of all the so called whiners ended up being sixty or more percent of the population that would be bad.
I remember when NGE was being bandied about, folks who wanted the game to be more like WoW said the exact same thing, well the "whiners" did leave and the community and game never recovered.
It also doesn't help that fans of <insert game here> are pushing a wipe in Zone chat because they want to see the population drop significantly.
Maybe I am assuming the wrong ratio of mature gamer to turds. I have always seemed to find very large groups of awesome people on the games and servers I play. Maybe I am just lucky.
And what about those of us who have been playing the AH and zen exchange legit?
The whole point of a wipe is to erase all progress and start over. Characters would lose their adventrure levels. Lose their leadership levels. Lose their invoking coins. And you too would lose what you made in the AH. And anything anyone made from trading would be gone.
There is a lot more to simply hurr durr flipping a switch at some server farm and resetting everything.
Not really, no. They set everything back to the start. The founders would get their AD back. And the people who bought Zen would get it back. All progress gone. Everyone starts over from where they began. If you got to keep what you earned by trading it wouldn't be much of a 'wipe'.
*Remember no one has actually said they are going to wipe anything. At this point all they have done is not say they won't on a twitter post. Obviously they don't want to do anything drastic. But we have no idea how the damage to the game economy looks from their end. If they can fix it, great! I'm just saying that if they can't I'll stick through it anyway.
Are you guys contemplating a full Character wipe to Repair all the DMG the exploiters have done that past days? or no?
First step will be to analyze the data! Once we have game data to evaluate, we'll then be able to determine what's next.
One way to read that response is that a wipe isn't being ruled out.
They could quite easily decide to do a wipe, which imo wouldn't be a bad thing considering the number of exploiters that have taken advantage of things and ruined what is otherwise a fantastic game.
IF they did decide to do a wipe then you know where to point the fingers. Not Cryptic, look to the ones that exploited things like the Guardians bug and flooded the economy with epics and those pathetic afk pvp'ers that use arguements like 'techincally' it isn't exploiting. They're oblivious to/don't care about the damage they've already caused.
Next time you see someone openly advertising LFG AFK in zone chat or as they're now calling it 'LFG losing pvp' report them, or at the least ignore them, you would be surprised how much spam this reduces after a while. Once they start getting the message we will see less scary threads like the one above on Twitter and genuine players can get on with playing this great game.
And what about those of us who have been playing the AH and zen exchange legit?
I took the astral diamonds I started with and some zen I had in my account to hugely multiply my astral and zen holdings by simply buying low selling high for days on end starting with the head start thursday.
Do players get their zen refunded? Ok great, what about the zen they made converting astrals on the exchange?
Do we get the option to cash out all of our zen back to our paypal/webmoney accounts IF they do a wipe?
Announcing you are doing a wipe will instantly **** the zen/astral ratio as everyone is going to be trying to convert to zen to ensure they start off after the reset with the biggest pocketbook possible. How do you work around that? Will zen/astral conversion rates be locked after an impending wipe is announced?
Wouldnt that be a bit unfair to lock players attempting to SELL zen at a set rate to keep it from falling through the floor? Someone in that deal is going to get the short end of the stick.
Will Cryptic and PWE suddenly just decide to value every players astral diamonds at a set exchange ratio and credit players with that much zen?
There is a lot more to simply hurr durr flipping a switch at some server farm and resetting everything.
Not a lot of people here or anywhere else seem to really get that.
Did you buy zen with real world money?
Yes = then its refunded to your account, in the exact amount purchased only.
No = then it is not refunded after wipe
You played the market to gain the zen you got, and you can do it again after the wipe just as easy.
Why would they refund Zen that was gotten by in game means when they wipe the game, that is silly. They are only obligated to and should only refund zen purchased with cash if a wipe occurs.
This is not really that difficult of a concept.
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kyaaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Did you buy zen with real world money?
Yes = then its refunded to your account
No = then it is not refunded after wipe
You played the market to gain the zen you got, and you can do it again after the wipe just as easy.
Why would they refund Zen that was gotten by in game means when they wipe the game, that is silly. They are only obligated to and should only refund zen purchased with cash if a wipe occurs.
This is not really that difficult of a concept.
It's not a difficult concept but what you fail to realize is the impossibility of the task, especially when it comes to a publisher such as Perfect World Entertainment. Many many weeks to months of tracking down players who "say" they spent this amount of Zen and never got refunded, etc. will have to be done on PW's side. This is just way too much. I am in favor of a wipe but your naivety and other people that are just saying "too bad so sad" irks me. This is a game but it is also a business. Keep that in mind.
In theory your fantasy is possible. In reality, I do not think so.
Sorry, but we all have to wake up once in a while.
I am certain that as a business they have COMPLETE records of all zen purchases and transfers in to the game of Neverwinter.
"Impossibility of the task" This is an issue of basic book keeping that every business does. Seriously its not that difficult, you make it sound as if these people can not put one foot in front of the other to walk.
It's not a difficult concept but what you fail to realize is the impossibility of the task, especially when it comes to a publisher such as Perfect World Entertainment. Many many weeks to months of tracking down players who "say" they spent this amount of Zen and never got refunded, etc. will have to be done on PW's side. This is just way too much. I am in favor of a wipe but your naivety and other people that are just saying "too bad so sad" irks me. This is a game but it is also a business. Keep that in mind.
In theory your fantasy is possible. In reality, I do not think so.
Sorry, but we all have to wake up once in a while.
There is a full record of your real money transactions on PWE. To claim it is "more complicated" is just admitting ignorance. There is no need to ask anyone anything. All records are online for you to see.
Many many weeks to months of tracking down players who "say" they spent this amount of Zen and never got refunded, etc. will have to be done on PW's side.
They have the records already. Don't have to track anything down. How do you think they are able to show you your purchase history on the website. Also (I could be wrong here) I think all their purchases go through third parties. Those financial institutions have records of their own.
I actually see this escalating as more and more people realize what exactly is being proposed, this could turn into the grand-daddy of all community wars and I think honestly PWE (because at the end of the day it is their call) are going to take the path of least resistance, they will track down the offenders and take action, not punish the whole community, and yes there will be complaining but that complaining is a drop in the bucket over the chaos of a full character wipe.
IF they did decide to do a wipe then you know where to point the fingers. Not Cryptic, look to the ones that exploited things like the Guardians bug and flooded the economy with epics and those pathetic afk pvp'ers that use arguements like 'techincally' it isn't exploiting. They're oblivious to/don't care about the damage they've already caused.
Actually no, to paraphrase Truman the buck stops at Cryptic. Every mmo has had bugs and exploits. If they can't deal with them without doing a wipe they should have never have said that there will be no wipes. If they wipe it says that they can't be trusted, I've really like this game but if I can't trust the publisher I won't touch the product. I love some games on the xbox 360 but after 3 red rings of death in a year I will no longer have anything to do with microsoft gaming. It's pretty much the exact same thing in some ways.
Besides, the games' been out for a full two weeks. If people wouldn't come back because of the time they 'invested' in this game: they are short-sighted and wouldn't be here in the long run, anyways.
If its money invested, that's a different story, but like its been pointed out multiple times in this thread: thats all on record.
Exactly! Just wipe and give us a good, clean economy. The competitive aspect of this game went down the drain when exploiters gave out epics to their friends and sold them for nothing.
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kyaaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
They have lists sure. But have you accounted for a possibility that not all the Zen is refunded to person B and person C is missing something that he once had at the start of his account prior to purchasing any item on NeverWinter or if person A never received his Zen to begin with? Glitches/Bugs do happen in Wipes. It's not as simple as ABC.
Also despite this game's supposed failure. A LOT of people play and pay. That's a lot of lists of transactions. Just saying.
But this topic is pointless. There will be no wipe anyway. A wipe will not fix this game.
There also comes a point where its better to go back on what you have said than to keep that statement true. Is this one of those situations? Don't know.
But no one can argue that the game would not be in a different state were it not for the multiple exploits it has had.
There also comes a point where its better to go back on what you have said than to keep that statement true. Is this one of those situations? Don't know.
But no one can argue that the game would not be in a different state were it not for the multiple exploits it has had.
Actually I think it would be eventually. The exploits aren't the cause of the problems they just accelerated the timeline. The root of the economic "problems" are the founders diamonds, combined with BoE epic drops. The exploits got more BoE gear onto the market faster but that gear would get there eventually anyways. This is why even in a perfect scenario where no one leaves because of the wipe, all exploits have been fixed, and no one even tries to find a new exploit, a wipe will fix absolutely nothing.
They have lists sure. But have you accounted for a possibility that not all the Zen is refunded to person B and person C is missing something that he once had at the start of his account prior to purchasing any item on NeverWinter or if person A never received his Zen to begin with? Glitches/Bugs do happen in Wipes. It's not as simple as ABC.
Also despite this game's supposed failure. A LOT of people play and pay. That's a lot of lists of transactions. Just saying.
But this topic is pointless. There will be no wipe anyway. A wipe will not fix this game.
Evey one has an opinion, that's fine.
But people that are so certain as to the actions of another person or group of people to then state what they THINK as a fact are ridiculous. You want to think and say that you think there will be no wipe fine.
But for any one to say that one way or another it as a fact is asinine unless you are working for Cryptic/PWI.
Let this be lesson once again. There should have been a 24/7 real open beta for 2 to 3 weeks to start, there you would have found the exploits and during this time expectations would have been set properly. Wipe forthcoming and all of that.
So who gets to make this wipe call ultimately? One has to think PW... it will come down to if they think they can make more money one way or the other, so the argument for a wipe would be them thinking they have lost significant $$$ they will not get back due to exploits. I would have to think this is the bottom line.
Done with the wipe topic myself. At least until something new comes out about it.
All of our speculation gets us nowhere. The people running the game will be the ones to decide if it happens or not. And truthfully I believe they are in a better position to decide if its needed than any of us anyway. All we can do as players is argue in circles about what we think should be done. And honestly its a very touchy topic.
Chris Gunning @ChrisGunning003 @NeverwinterGame Are you guys contemplation a full Character wipe to Repair all the DMG the exploiters have done that past days? or no?
Neverwinter @NeverwinterGame @ChrisGunning003 First step will be to analyze the data! Once we have game data to evaluate, we'll then be able to determine what's next.
No one said they can't make a new shard AFTER they merge all the shards.
Except for the fact that the developers have said that their ultimate goal is to have "one" server, and only made 3 distinct servers in the first place to help handle the initial influx of players, in an attempt to keep the servers stable during launch -err, I mean, "open beta." :rolleyes:
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
"ANY APPLICABLE ZEN, FEES AND OTHER CHARGES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NON REFUNDABLE AND NONTRANSFERABLE, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, FOR ANY REASON."
This is BS, coz its against consument service law, and doesnt matter if we signed anything, you just cant give up on laws you have... Made me laugh in work.
Allready got full refund despite they say "i cant", ya this company so reliable !
"ANY APPLICABLE ZEN, FEES AND OTHER CHARGES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NON REFUNDABLE AND NONTRANSFERABLE, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, FOR ANY REASON."
This is BS, coz its against consument service law, and doesnt matter if we signed anything, you just cant give up on laws you have... Made me laugh in work.
Allready got full refund despite they say "i cant", ya this company so reliable !
Yeah, **** them for being so unreliable as to giving you your money back when you asked for it!
Screw you PWE!
9/10 made me lol
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
All the Wipers seem to think that will save the game. At least until the "Next Big Exploit". What about all the (real world) money that will be pulled out by people who will want a refund? The whole reason, or more than likely a large part of it, for the open beta and no wipes thing was so they could generate more income to continue to work on the game.
If they do a wipe after telling us there would be no more I will want my $200 for HotN back as well as a full paypal refund of the Zen I bought. I'm sure I wont be the only one. That's a large exodus of capital being removed from their budget. If you think that's better for the game have at it.
All the Wipers seem to think that will save the game. At least until the "Next Big Exploit". What about all the (real world) money that will be pulled out by people who will want a refund? The whole reason, or more than likely a large part of it, for the open beta and no wipes thing was so they could generate more income to continue to work on the game.
If they do a wipe after telling us there would be no more I will want my $200 for HotN back as well as a full paypal refund of the Zen I bought. I'm sure I wont be the only one. That's a large exodus of capital being removed from their budget. If you think that's better for the game have at it.
I think this might be a good time to remind people that, when companies in the "real world" screw up, they are also forced to give refunds, and some of them lose money. Sometimes, they even go bankrupt.
But -and this is the important part- THEY STILL DO IT. They fix what was broken, and hand out refunds to those who want one. They don't leave their product broken and/or leave the damage done, giving their customers a giant middle finger.
In the MMO market, though, apparently half of the customers are willing to sit here and argue that the company is perfectly within their right to just leave things alone, damage done, because "it wouldn't be good for the game."
That's ridiculous, of course. There's absolutely nothing wrong with demanding accountability from PWE/Cryptic, especially when players are spending hundreds of dollars on this product. If Neverwinter didn't survive and had to shut its servers down (incredibly unlikely as that is) that wouldn't even necessarily be a bad thing. At least it would scare the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of other game developers, so that perhaps they would be more inclined to properly handle exploiters in the future.
Maybe PWE/Cryptic would be more careful about allowing players to dump hundreds of dollars into a game that didn't undergo proper testing. Maybe companies in the future would look back on the Neverwinter experiment, and see that it's not such a good idea to skip an entire phase of the testing process (because let's face it, this open beta is really a launch. They are trying to get away with skipping open beta, and they aren't the first game to do it.)
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
All the Wipers seem to think that will save the game. At least until the "Next Big Exploit". What about all the (real world) money that will be pulled out by people who will want a refund? The whole reason, or more than likely a large part of it, for the open beta and no wipes thing was so they could generate more income to continue to work on the game.
If they do a wipe after telling us there would be no more I will want my $200 for HotN back as well as a full paypal refund of the Zen I bought. I'm sure I wont be the only one. That's a large exodus of capital being removed from their budget. If you think that's better for the game have at it.
I will be one of those as well.
I will expect all my zen to be refunded to my paypal if a wipe is enacted. I paid for the two founders packs and some zen under the assumption that my purchases in game would be permanent from here on out. Had I known that a wipe was on the horizon, I wouldnt have put ANY money into the game.
After refunding my money back to my paypal account I will come back as just a free player to watch and see if another wipe is on the way or how the game is doing. By this time I may have already moved on to another game alltogether.
I suspect you are right, there would be a fair number of founders and or players that have bought zen not accepting simply getting their zen balance restored. I think we would mostly want a full cash refund for the zen/packs bought.
PWE/Cryptic has to know this, now it just comes down to, is PWE/Cryptic willing to put up with bad publicity and possibly losing money from the players asking for full refunds? This whole line of thinking seems very counter intuitive to what a publisher of a very new mmo would actually want to do.
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tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I will expect all my zen to be refunded to my paypal if a wipe is enacted. I paid for the two founders packs and some zen under the assumption that my purchases in game would be permanent from here on out. Had I known that a wipe was on the horizon, I wouldnt have put ANY money into the game.
After refunding my money back to my paypal account I will come back as just a free player to watch and see if another wipe is on the way or how the game is doing. By this time I may have already moved on to another game alltogether.
I suspect you are right, there would be a fair number of founders and or players that have bought zen not accepting simply getting their zen balance restored. I think we would mostly want a full cash refund for the zen/packs bought.
PWE/Cryptic has to know this, now it just comes down to, is PWE/Cryptic willing to put up with bad publicity and possibly losing money from the players asking for full refunds? This whole line of thinking seems very counter intuitive to what a publisher of a very new mmo would actually want to do.
I don't have too much experience with getting refunds through PayPal, but to me, I don't see that happening. You purchased digital currency, as well as the packs for the game. You've been delivered your packs and digital currency. If there is a wipe and you are reimbursed for that digital currency and items, there's no reason for PayPal to refund you. Your goods were delivered. Not to mention, with the game being in beta status, things like wipes can happen. I'm not saying it's not possible, but logically, I don't see it happening. Not to mention, the Zen purchases can be applied to different games, so it just boils down to you buying online currency that you received.
I could be wrong, but that's just the way I see it.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
I don't have too much experience with getting refunds through PayPal, but to me, I don't see that happening. You purchased digital currency, as well as the packs for the game. You've been delivered your packs and digital currency. If there is a wipe and you are reimbursed for that digital currency and items, there's no reason for PayPal to refund you. Your goods were delivered. Not to mention, with the game being in beta status, things like wipes can happen. I'm not saying it's not possible, but logically, I don't see it happening. Not to mention, the Zen purchases can be applied to different games, so it just boils down to you buying online currency that you received.
I could be wrong, but that's just the way I see it.
In numerous interviews they specifically said there would be no more wipes. Beta status is irrelevant. That is what I have an issue with. If they had said "Hey... This is now open beta and there will be a wipe in one month", which they probably should have said from the beginning, I'd have no problem with it.
While I hate to use the term "bait and switch" if they now come back and say a wipe is on the way then to me that's a breach of my trust. If they don't want an angry customer just give me back what I invested and I'll be on my way no harm no foul. If they don't then I'll just become one of those angry customers who rant about how bad Cryptic/PWE are and who care about nothing other than money. I personally don't think that is the case, as least on Cryptics part, but hey it is what it is.
I don't have too much experience with getting refunds through PayPal, but to me, I don't see that happening. You purchased digital currency, as well as the packs for the game. You've been delivered your packs and digital currency. If there is a wipe and you are reimbursed for that digital currency and items, there's no reason for PayPal to refund you. Your goods were delivered. Not to mention, with the game being in beta status, things like wipes can happen. I'm not saying it's not possible, but logically, I don't see it happening. Not to mention, the Zen purchases can be applied to different games, so it just boils down to you buying online currency that you received.
I could be wrong, but that's just the way I see it.
So its been done before. Its not some new precedent that hasnt been touched on before.
The problem comes from, how much bad PR will they sustain if they opt NOT to refund players fully for their purchases and are they willing to take that bad PR? Or will they refund to keep the riff raff quiet and just hemorrhage money?
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tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
While I hate to use the term "bait and switch" if they now come back and say a wipe is on the way then to me that's a breach of my trust. If they don't want an angry customer just give me back what I invested and I'll be on my way no harm no foul. If they don't then I'll just become one of those angry customers who rant about how bad Cryptic/PWE are and who care about nothing other than money. I personally don't think that is the case, as least on Cryptics part, but hey it is what it is.
I understand the trust thing, but even I jumped into this knowing that even though they say there won't be a wipe, there's always a possibility since it's not a "released" game. Maybe that's not a common assumption, I can't speak for others. Yes, they would rather not wipe, but nobody can say for sure.
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jobistoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
All the Wipers seem to think that will save the game. At least until the "Next Big Exploit". What about all the (real world) money that will be pulled out by people who will want a refund? The whole reason, or more than likely a large part of it, for the open beta and no wipes thing was so they could generate more income to continue to work on the game.
If they do a wipe after telling us there would be no more I will want my $200 for HotN back as well as a full paypal refund of the Zen I bought. I'm sure I wont be the only one. That's a large exodus of capital being removed from their budget. If you think that's better for the game have at it.
Same here too, I have very little playtime and won't be interested in running the early zones again so soon.
Comments
All of these are good points and the answers we usually get from those in favor of a wipe is: "We don't care too bad so sad." That more than anything I think is what's going to keep it from happening.
Maybe I am assuming the wrong ratio of mature gamer to turds. I have always seemed to find very large groups of awesome people on the games and servers I play. Maybe I am just lucky.
The whole point of a wipe is to erase all progress and start over. Characters would lose their adventrure levels. Lose their leadership levels. Lose their invoking coins. And you too would lose what you made in the AH. And anything anyone made from trading would be gone.
Not really, no. They set everything back to the start. The founders would get their AD back. And the people who bought Zen would get it back. All progress gone. Everyone starts over from where they began. If you got to keep what you earned by trading it wouldn't be much of a 'wipe'.
*Remember no one has actually said they are going to wipe anything. At this point all they have done is not say they won't on a twitter post. Obviously they don't want to do anything drastic. But we have no idea how the damage to the game economy looks from their end. If they can fix it, great! I'm just saying that if they can't I'll stick through it anyway.
One way to read that response is that a wipe isn't being ruled out.
They could quite easily decide to do a wipe, which imo wouldn't be a bad thing considering the number of exploiters that have taken advantage of things and ruined what is otherwise a fantastic game.
IF they did decide to do a wipe then you know where to point the fingers. Not Cryptic, look to the ones that exploited things like the Guardians bug and flooded the economy with epics and those pathetic afk pvp'ers that use arguements like 'techincally' it isn't exploiting. They're oblivious to/don't care about the damage they've already caused.
Next time you see someone openly advertising LFG AFK in zone chat or as they're now calling it 'LFG losing pvp' report them, or at the least ignore them, you would be surprised how much spam this reduces after a while. Once they start getting the message we will see less scary threads like the one above on Twitter and genuine players can get on with playing this great game.
Did you buy zen with real world money?
Yes = then its refunded to your account, in the exact amount purchased only.
No = then it is not refunded after wipe
You played the market to gain the zen you got, and you can do it again after the wipe just as easy.
Why would they refund Zen that was gotten by in game means when they wipe the game, that is silly. They are only obligated to and should only refund zen purchased with cash if a wipe occurs.
This is not really that difficult of a concept.
It's not a difficult concept but what you fail to realize is the impossibility of the task, especially when it comes to a publisher such as Perfect World Entertainment. Many many weeks to months of tracking down players who "say" they spent this amount of Zen and never got refunded, etc. will have to be done on PW's side. This is just way too much. I am in favor of a wipe but your naivety and other people that are just saying "too bad so sad" irks me. This is a game but it is also a business. Keep that in mind.
In theory your fantasy is possible. In reality, I do not think so.
Sorry, but we all have to wake up once in a while.
"Impossibility of the task" This is an issue of basic book keeping that every business does. Seriously its not that difficult, you make it sound as if these people can not put one foot in front of the other to walk.
There is a full record of your real money transactions on PWE. To claim it is "more complicated" is just admitting ignorance. There is no need to ask anyone anything. All records are online for you to see.
They have the records already. Don't have to track anything down. How do you think they are able to show you your purchase history on the website. Also (I could be wrong here) I think all their purchases go through third parties. Those financial institutions have records of their own.
Yes. And just like any other business they keep records of all transactions.
Exactly! Just wipe and give us a good, clean economy. The competitive aspect of this game went down the drain when exploiters gave out epics to their friends and sold them for nothing.
Also despite this game's supposed failure. A LOT of people play and pay. That's a lot of lists of transactions. Just saying.
But this topic is pointless. There will be no wipe anyway. A wipe will not fix this game.
But no one can argue that the game would not be in a different state were it not for the multiple exploits it has had.
Actually I think it would be eventually. The exploits aren't the cause of the problems they just accelerated the timeline. The root of the economic "problems" are the founders diamonds, combined with BoE epic drops. The exploits got more BoE gear onto the market faster but that gear would get there eventually anyways. This is why even in a perfect scenario where no one leaves because of the wipe, all exploits have been fixed, and no one even tries to find a new exploit, a wipe will fix absolutely nothing.
Evey one has an opinion, that's fine.
But people that are so certain as to the actions of another person or group of people to then state what they THINK as a fact are ridiculous. You want to think and say that you think there will be no wipe fine.
But for any one to say that one way or another it as a fact is asinine unless you are working for Cryptic/PWI.
So who gets to make this wipe call ultimately? One has to think PW... it will come down to if they think they can make more money one way or the other, so the argument for a wipe would be them thinking they have lost significant $$$ they will not get back due to exploits. I would have to think this is the bottom line.
All of our speculation gets us nowhere. The people running the game will be the ones to decide if it happens or not. And truthfully I believe they are in a better position to decide if its needed than any of us anyway. All we can do as players is argue in circles about what we think should be done. And honestly its a very touchy topic.
Chris Gunning @ChrisGunning003
@NeverwinterGame Are you guys contemplation a full Character wipe to Repair all the DMG the exploiters have done that past days? or no?
Neverwinter @NeverwinterGame
@ChrisGunning003 First step will be to analyze the data! Once we have game data to evaluate, we'll then be able to determine what's next.
In other words, it's a consideration it seems.
Except for the fact that the developers have said that their ultimate goal is to have "one" server, and only made 3 distinct servers in the first place to help handle the initial influx of players, in an attempt to keep the servers stable during launch -err, I mean, "open beta." :rolleyes:
-Travail.
This is BS, coz its against consument service law, and doesnt matter if we signed anything, you just cant give up on laws you have... Made me laugh in work.
Allready got full refund despite they say "i cant", ya this company so reliable !
Yeah, **** them for being so unreliable as to giving you your money back when you asked for it!
Screw you PWE!
9/10 made me lol
If they do a wipe after telling us there would be no more I will want my $200 for HotN back as well as a full paypal refund of the Zen I bought. I'm sure I wont be the only one. That's a large exodus of capital being removed from their budget. If you think that's better for the game have at it.
I think this might be a good time to remind people that, when companies in the "real world" screw up, they are also forced to give refunds, and some of them lose money. Sometimes, they even go bankrupt.
But -and this is the important part- THEY STILL DO IT. They fix what was broken, and hand out refunds to those who want one. They don't leave their product broken and/or leave the damage done, giving their customers a giant middle finger.
In the MMO market, though, apparently half of the customers are willing to sit here and argue that the company is perfectly within their right to just leave things alone, damage done, because "it wouldn't be good for the game."
That's ridiculous, of course. There's absolutely nothing wrong with demanding accountability from PWE/Cryptic, especially when players are spending hundreds of dollars on this product. If Neverwinter didn't survive and had to shut its servers down (incredibly unlikely as that is) that wouldn't even necessarily be a bad thing. At least it would scare the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of other game developers, so that perhaps they would be more inclined to properly handle exploiters in the future.
Maybe PWE/Cryptic would be more careful about allowing players to dump hundreds of dollars into a game that didn't undergo proper testing. Maybe companies in the future would look back on the Neverwinter experiment, and see that it's not such a good idea to skip an entire phase of the testing process (because let's face it, this open beta is really a launch. They are trying to get away with skipping open beta, and they aren't the first game to do it.)
-Travail.
I will be one of those as well.
I will expect all my zen to be refunded to my paypal if a wipe is enacted. I paid for the two founders packs and some zen under the assumption that my purchases in game would be permanent from here on out. Had I known that a wipe was on the horizon, I wouldnt have put ANY money into the game.
After refunding my money back to my paypal account I will come back as just a free player to watch and see if another wipe is on the way or how the game is doing. By this time I may have already moved on to another game alltogether.
I suspect you are right, there would be a fair number of founders and or players that have bought zen not accepting simply getting their zen balance restored. I think we would mostly want a full cash refund for the zen/packs bought.
PWE/Cryptic has to know this, now it just comes down to, is PWE/Cryptic willing to put up with bad publicity and possibly losing money from the players asking for full refunds? This whole line of thinking seems very counter intuitive to what a publisher of a very new mmo would actually want to do.
I don't have too much experience with getting refunds through PayPal, but to me, I don't see that happening. You purchased digital currency, as well as the packs for the game. You've been delivered your packs and digital currency. If there is a wipe and you are reimbursed for that digital currency and items, there's no reason for PayPal to refund you. Your goods were delivered. Not to mention, with the game being in beta status, things like wipes can happen. I'm not saying it's not possible, but logically, I don't see it happening. Not to mention, the Zen purchases can be applied to different games, so it just boils down to you buying online currency that you received.
I could be wrong, but that's just the way I see it.
In numerous interviews they specifically said there would be no more wipes. Beta status is irrelevant. That is what I have an issue with. If they had said "Hey... This is now open beta and there will be a wipe in one month", which they probably should have said from the beginning, I'd have no problem with it.
While I hate to use the term "bait and switch" if they now come back and say a wipe is on the way then to me that's a breach of my trust. If they don't want an angry customer just give me back what I invested and I'll be on my way no harm no foul. If they don't then I'll just become one of those angry customers who rant about how bad Cryptic/PWE are and who care about nothing other than money. I personally don't think that is the case, as least on Cryptics part, but hey it is what it is.
http://i.imgur.com/CvdJMph.png
So its been done before. Its not some new precedent that hasnt been touched on before.
The problem comes from, how much bad PR will they sustain if they opt NOT to refund players fully for their purchases and are they willing to take that bad PR? Or will they refund to keep the riff raff quiet and just hemorrhage money?
I understand the trust thing, but even I jumped into this knowing that even though they say there won't be a wipe, there's always a possibility since it's not a "released" game. Maybe that's not a common assumption, I can't speak for others. Yes, they would rather not wipe, but nobody can say for sure.
Same here too, I have very little playtime and won't be interested in running the early zones again so soon.