Why the massive amount of casual players would have to suffer because of a few abusers ?
I don't have time to rebuild my char all over and over again, no thx. Third try already : that's enough !
They just have to ban people with an insane amount of AD/bought items/zen which does not come from real cash transactions... since either you bought your dreadful amount of zen/amount of epic gear, either you abused to get it. They surely know what it's actually possible to earn in a defined time of playing : so people exceding greatly the average are just abusers. There are statistics tools to easily calculate this, don't worry.
The game, as I understand it, is in open beta (you can argue "soft launch" if you want, but it won't change anything); this means that, even though the playerbase was told no wipes, when several factors are contributing to a detrimental hit to the in-game economy (Foundry farm, One-shot bosses, PvP afk, etc.), it'd be in the best interest of the game IMO to run a wipe. Had the game ACTUALLY launched, as did Defiance with a host of issues and exploits, a wipe would be inconceivable, and a rollback inevitable. Regretting a loss in progress doesn't make you a whiner, and it was wrong of me to word it that way - I simply meant that if you bothered to invest that much time and money into the game, I'd imagine you'd have no problem supporting the well-being of the game itself, regardless of what measures were taken to land it there. All apologies.
Even though I disagree with you about the wipe, I applaud you for the calm and reasoned response.
The meaning of life, is to give life meaning.
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tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If they want to lose half of their playerbase, sure. But they don't.
According to this small sample (assuming that it would be accurate), they'd lose roughly 30%. That's not exactly half. I also love how in almost every post you seem to think you speak directly for the community as a whole.
I agree with rictras, redwaterx has one of the best responses in this thread.
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merrybelleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I've spent $130 on here so far and I would want a refund to my credit card if they did a wipe after stating that there would be no wipes. So the game would lose money, and I doubt I'd be the only one demanding a refund. I didn't exploit and neither did I breeze through the game in two days. I have one character, at level 40, and I refuse to rerun all those levels again. The game is not broken anyway, I'm still playing and I'm not going to stop playing just because some players cheated. They deserve to get banned and that is all. I don't feel cheated or abused, I'm an adult, and one thing I have learned in life is that stuff like this happens, so get over it already. No need to get all aggravated, I think you are all taking this a bit too seriously. The abuse has been discovered, reported, and it's being fixed. You are all acting like banning is not a good enough punishment, so we all must be punished. I didn't do anything wrong and I don't want to be punished, it's that simple, and none of your arguments will change my opinion.
I know I don't represent the NW gaming community, but as for me and my small guild of 5, nothing would make us happier then full-account wipes. Here's why: We were all founders, we were all huddled in my basement with 2 days work off, waiting to LAN party this game's release. Having been a group of friends that played D&D like a bunch of nerds in my paren'ts basement - this game was it. We had never been so excited for a game to start. We've been enjoying the game immensely, but already - things are dying for us... we all agree the game's economy is messed up. The fact that everyone when they hit 60 can run to the auction and spend a couple 100k and have some of the best gear the game has to offer ruins the game.
I know, we can personally choose to ignore the auction as a guild and it's our choice to use the auction or not, but when it comes to trying to be competitive with other guilds or pvp... it simply seems too easy to get geared out for end game using the auction. People are starting to play their first T1's in tier 3 gear with greater tenebrous enchantments and vorpal weapon enchants... It feels so wrong. We've discussed moving games already, just because the economy feels broken...
Again, we're probably different from the majority of NW gamers, but I think we'll play for a couple more weeks and be out. No hard feeling, the economy just feels off, for us.
I know I don't represent the NW gaming community, but as for me and my small guild of 5, nothing would make us happier then full-account wipes. Here's why: We were all founders, we were all huddled in my basement with 2 days work off, waiting to LAN party this game's release. Having been a group of friends that played D&D like a bunch of nerds in my paren'ts basement - this game was it. We had never been so excited for a game to start. We've been enjoying the game immensely, but already - things are dying for us... we all agree the game's economy is messed up. The fact that everyone when they hit 60 can run to the auction and spend a couple 100k and have some of the best gear the game has to offer ruins the game.
I know, we can personally choose to ignore the auction as a guild and it's our choice to use the auction or not, but when it comes to trying to be competitive with other guilds or pvp... it simply seems too easy to get geared out for end game using the auction. People are starting to play their first T1's in tier 3 gear with greater tenebrous enchantments and vorpal weapon enchants... It feels so wrong. We've discussed moving games already, just because the economy feels broken...
Again, we're probably different from the majority of NW gamers, but I think we'll play for a couple more weeks and be out. No hard feeling, the economy just feels off, for us.
A wipe wouldn't fix this at all. This is because everything is BoE. The exploits sped up this process but it would have happened anyways and even if it's wiped will happen again.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The game's economy is messed up because of the 2 million AD and 600 thousand AD that Founder's are given not due to any exploit. Some items are cheaper than they should be and people have more AD than they should, but it is not enough to destroy the economy. A ton of people having a ton of AD is the problem and time is the only way to fix that problem. In a couple of months, the economy will be stabilized. A character wipe with a full AD refund for Founders would cause the same problem to the economy again.
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rixenatorzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
People have already invested a lot of time and, more importantly, money in this game. People who exploited are going to lose something they never earned/paid for in the first place while legitimate players would lose things they actually spent real money on. It would be punishing the innocent with an act that the guilty would shrug off without a second thought.
A wipe is the worst possible thing to do at this point.
Games evolve, tiers change. That's the point of tiered gear. Currently the top tier is . . . 2, 3? I don't know, I'm new. But let's say the top tier is 3. Sometime in the future months we will see an introduction to tier 4 and all that tier 3 gear will be relatively worthless by comparison. The benefit exploiters have gained is shortlived; once the bugs are fixed the economy will rebound.
Removing likelyh thousands of dollars worth of items that honest players legitimately paid for is a mistake that I could not imagine a game rebounding from.
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alignmentsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
There was just a major gold dupe meltdown in Diablo 3 and it was resolved without a rollback. Even though i was pro rollback in that case, they have been able to track and remove most of the offending parties and items/gold. I play the AH quite a bit over there and things are pretty much back to normal or at least close enough. And as its been mentioned, if it was a rollback, i would want to be refunded fully, not refunded in Zen. Not that its likely to be done that way.
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senathynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
I would myself if zen was restored with the reset, I also wouldn't mind if they did compensate players for the time they did play the game via zen or some other item.
And to add, I'm enjoying the game myself, and the foundry is a great tool.
Looks like more people are committed to the game, therefore must enjoy it regardless of all the QQ goin on. I think it's a pretty yough job to get an MMO off to a good start. People should be happy. I know I am.
I really hate questing, they would have to fix PvP and dungeon issues before I would level again. I can only play through MMO quests once, and even that is stretching it.
A wipe wouldn't fix this at all. This is because everything is BoE. The exploits sped up this process but it would have happened anyways and even if it's wiped will happen again.
Rethinking what I wrote, and you hit the nail here; it's true - perhaps the exploiters progressed the problem faster, but the real issue is BoE. I understand $$$$$ is made by allowing people to buy ZEN and then trade for AD, but it'd be nice to at least have the highest tiered items BoP. I hate that people can hit 60 and have BiS... but perhaps I'm just not used to the FTP genre of mmos.
Many games in open beta would wipe for the mass amounts or exploits going on. Foundry exp exploit, afk pvp, one shot boss farming, profession pack exploit, on and on....... its kind of a rough launch and for the most part deserving of a fresh start.
Make at least PvP gear and T 1/2 BOP, give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it IMO.
And to any one that thinks this game is not in open beta and posts the infamous "Live" screenshot, go to the Neverwinter home page right in the front is says "Now in open Beta". If you need me to I can take a screen shot of it and post it for you.
Many games in open beta would wipe for the mass amounts or exploits going on. Foundry exp exploit, afk pvp, one shot boss farming, profession pack exploit, on and on....... its kind of a rough launch and for the most part deserving of a fresh start.
Make at least PvP gear and T 1/2 BOP, give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it IMO.
I agree, any other company would have done a full wipe by now, but the problem is that Cryptic rushed things to start making money sooner, and they opened the zen store for this. So a full wipe not only wouldnt fix anything, but also would be unfair for the people who payed a lot of money for founders pack, buying a lot of zen, and didnt exploit the game at all, like some froobs did.
You said "give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it", although its a very good suggestion, so people wont lose their money, what about the exploiters who made tons of zen from abusing glitches like the guy the OP described (the one in the screenshot)?
Making a few thousands of zen is super easy if one abuses the horrible glitches in epic dungeons, so I dont see any way of correcting things at this point. They could fix everything and do a full wipe with no refunds, but that would be like "everyone who paid real money, is screwed", so that isnt a viable solution.
I agree, any other company would have done a full wipe by now, but the problem is that Cryptic rushed things to start making money sooner, and they opened the zen store for this. So a full wipe not only wouldnt fix anything, but also would be unfair for the people who payed a lot of money for founders pack, buying a lot of zen, and didnt exploit the game at all, like some froobs did.
You said "give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it", although its a very good suggestion, so people wont lose their money, what about the exploiters who made tons of zen from abusing glitches like the guy the OP described (the one in the screenshot)?
Making a few thousands of zen is super easy if one abuses the horrible glitches in epic dungeons, so I dont see any way of correcting things at this point. They could fix everything and do a full wipe with no refunds, but that would be like "everyone who paid real money, is screwed", so that isnt a viable solution.
Its fairly simple.... only refund the zen to people that bought it from the website with real cash, and in the exact amounts. They know exactly who has and exactly how much zen some one has purchased, and can easily refund that amount to the account.
And I am fairly certain that zen is purely a player market, no one has "made" zen they have only payed AD to some one who is selling zen they obtained from buying with real money.
Its fairly simple.... only refund the zen to people that bought it from the website with real cash, and in the exact amounts. They know exactly who has and exactly how much zen some one has purchased, and can easily refund that amount to the account.
And I am fairly certain that zen is purely a player market, no one has "made" zen they have only payed AD to some one who is selling zen they obtained from buying with real money.
I dont know how easy that would be for the devs, I feel like it might lead to people not getting their refund, others not getting the whole amount, etc. But then again, what do I know? Your idea is great if it can be put to use.
Still, Cryptic has no such plans atm. If they did, I'm pretty sure they would inform us of that, since it affects everyone in the game.
And yes it is true that all zen comes from real money, so the people who bring zen to the market are the paying customers not the exploiters.
However, the exploiters still were able to amass zen for free, in contrast to the people who paid for it like they should. And because the zen market doesnt offer very much at the moment, AD is very useful for lots of things. So people who bought zen originally sold at least some of it for AD, and thats how exploiters get zen.
P.S. A few days ago, I saw the zen exchange going from 1/360 (360 ad a piece) to 1/410 within 20 minutes, it was pretty crazy. I suspect this had something to do with the zen total supply being "dried up" for a bit, because then it went back to normal.
. I stopped playing and would only start again if there will be a full reset.
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jakaiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I've already quit, only reason I know about this post is cause I friend send me the link.
I would love to play this game again since I enjoy running the dungeons but feel that it is too broken to bother right now. Nevermind the bugs but there are also too many people who used the exploit before it became common knowledge and are still siting with billions in AD and rare items which will cause the economy to be in a mess for a long time.
I'd return if they wipe but also only after beta ends and if I could at least be placed back on lv60 with a decent set of blue (don't care if I lose the purples I got now) cause I'm not gonna play through old content again or grind to reach a level when I could be playing TSW or Rift where I got plenty of interesting new content to explore.
well some people just simply do person-to-person trade as they play friends on a group which is a D&D-lover or fan boys or whatever you name it, simply enjoy the ride. so yes, full wipe or not some people still playing the game since probably they dont spend anything but time and internet bandwidth to play the game
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mego9500Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 22Arc User
I did not exploit and I shouldn't be punished for those who do or did.
This.
I didn't even know a majority of these existed up until the servers went down and I read the announcement.
Why should I be punished for what some yahoo's did?
I don't think a wipe would really help at this point. There are game breaking exploits/hacks in the game right now, and that's just what we know of, there are probably even more waiting to come out. If they wiped now I'm afraid we would just get to the same point again with people asking for another wipe.
Would you still play if there was a reset to clear the issues the game has allowed to run rampant and put the game in to its current state?
Is your 24 to 48 hours of total game played time in game worth more to you then the 5+ years this game has been in developement while the game designers have spent all that time, effort and imagination into this?
.
Yes, one half a second of my time is worth more than 5 years of dev time, particularly as in all those 5 years no one bothered to test for the game breaking exploits or deal with them when reported.
My and my copious gaming budget would walk away without looking back if there was a wipe. There are plenty of other MMO's out there, I don't have to stick with ones whose word and competence cannot be trusted. If the game bombs, investors lose their money and people lose their incomes that's the price of failure. It'll be an object lesson the PWE and any other company that thinks it can cut corners.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
No.
/10char
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
I voted yes, I would still play as I'm playing now. It would be a hassle since I'm leveling up my 2nd character to 60 and I guess I've seen enough of the in-game questing by now.
But I just don't know how messed up the economy really is, and if it's fixable through other means. If it is, than that's preferable.
And maybe people don't have to look at a wipe like they're being punished. If the game is broken, do you really think you'll keep on having a nice time in the game when they change nothing?
All of the people playing now took a chance investing time (and money) in a game that openly states is still beta. No matter your argument of 'they accept money, so it's live' or 'open beta is considered live'.... in all practical (and thus legal) sense, it's beta, not an end-product, expect unexpected changes.
So, a wipe with cash-zen-restores if the economy is really that messed up, sure. But I hope not.
Comments
I like the game, but not enough for them to go back on their word.
A character wipe is not happening
Until it enters the release phase, there is always a possibility.
If they want to lose half of their playerbase, sure. But they don't.
I don't have time to rebuild my char all over and over again, no thx. Third try already : that's enough !
They just have to ban people with an insane amount of AD/bought items/zen which does not come from real cash transactions... since either you bought your dreadful amount of zen/amount of epic gear, either you abused to get it. They surely know what it's actually possible to earn in a defined time of playing : so people exceding greatly the average are just abusers. There are statistics tools to easily calculate this, don't worry.
Even though I disagree with you about the wipe, I applaud you for the calm and reasoned response.
According to this small sample (assuming that it would be accurate), they'd lose roughly 30%. That's not exactly half. I also love how in almost every post you seem to think you speak directly for the community as a whole.
I agree with rictras, redwaterx has one of the best responses in this thread.
I know, we can personally choose to ignore the auction as a guild and it's our choice to use the auction or not, but when it comes to trying to be competitive with other guilds or pvp... it simply seems too easy to get geared out for end game using the auction. People are starting to play their first T1's in tier 3 gear with greater tenebrous enchantments and vorpal weapon enchants... It feels so wrong. We've discussed moving games already, just because the economy feels broken...
Again, we're probably different from the majority of NW gamers, but I think we'll play for a couple more weeks and be out. No hard feeling, the economy just feels off, for us.
A wipe wouldn't fix this at all. This is because everything is BoE. The exploits sped up this process but it would have happened anyways and even if it's wiped will happen again.
A wipe is the worst possible thing to do at this point.
Games evolve, tiers change. That's the point of tiered gear. Currently the top tier is . . . 2, 3? I don't know, I'm new. But let's say the top tier is 3. Sometime in the future months we will see an introduction to tier 4 and all that tier 3 gear will be relatively worthless by comparison. The benefit exploiters have gained is shortlived; once the bugs are fixed the economy will rebound.
Removing likelyh thousands of dollars worth of items that honest players legitimately paid for is a mistake that I could not imagine a game rebounding from.
And to add, I'm enjoying the game myself, and the foundry is a great tool.
I wonder how long this poll will last.
Rethinking what I wrote, and you hit the nail here; it's true - perhaps the exploiters progressed the problem faster, but the real issue is BoE. I understand $$$$$ is made by allowing people to buy ZEN and then trade for AD, but it'd be nice to at least have the highest tiered items BoP. I hate that people can hit 60 and have BiS... but perhaps I'm just not used to the FTP genre of mmos.
Good call^
Make at least PvP gear and T 1/2 BOP, give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it IMO.
And to any one that thinks this game is not in open beta and posts the infamous "Live" screenshot, go to the Neverwinter home page right in the front is says "Now in open Beta". If you need me to I can take a screen shot of it and post it for you.
You said "give players back any zen they spent to the accounts and wipe it", although its a very good suggestion, so people wont lose their money, what about the exploiters who made tons of zen from abusing glitches like the guy the OP described (the one in the screenshot)?
Making a few thousands of zen is super easy if one abuses the horrible glitches in epic dungeons, so I dont see any way of correcting things at this point. They could fix everything and do a full wipe with no refunds, but that would be like "everyone who paid real money, is screwed", so that isnt a viable solution.
Its fairly simple.... only refund the zen to people that bought it from the website with real cash, and in the exact amounts. They know exactly who has and exactly how much zen some one has purchased, and can easily refund that amount to the account.
And I am fairly certain that zen is purely a player market, no one has "made" zen they have only payed AD to some one who is selling zen they obtained from buying with real money.
Still, Cryptic has no such plans atm. If they did, I'm pretty sure they would inform us of that, since it affects everyone in the game.
And yes it is true that all zen comes from real money, so the people who bring zen to the market are the paying customers not the exploiters.
However, the exploiters still were able to amass zen for free, in contrast to the people who paid for it like they should. And because the zen market doesnt offer very much at the moment, AD is very useful for lots of things. So people who bought zen originally sold at least some of it for AD, and thats how exploiters get zen.
P.S. A few days ago, I saw the zen exchange going from 1/360 (360 ad a piece) to 1/410 within 20 minutes, it was pretty crazy. I suspect this had something to do with the zen total supply being "dried up" for a bit, because then it went back to normal.
Sure it has issues... but every new game has economic issues.
For you to say that, tells me you ethier don't fully understand whats happened OR you simply do not use the AH.
. I stopped playing and would only start again if there will be a full reset.
I would love to play this game again since I enjoy running the dungeons but feel that it is too broken to bother right now. Nevermind the bugs but there are also too many people who used the exploit before it became common knowledge and are still siting with billions in AD and rare items which will cause the economy to be in a mess for a long time.
I'd return if they wipe but also only after beta ends and if I could at least be placed back on lv60 with a decent set of blue (don't care if I lose the purples I got now) cause I'm not gonna play through old content again or grind to reach a level when I could be playing TSW or Rift where I got plenty of interesting new content to explore.
This.
I didn't even know a majority of these existed up until the servers went down and I read the announcement.
Why should I be punished for what some yahoo's did?
Yes, one half a second of my time is worth more than 5 years of dev time, particularly as in all those 5 years no one bothered to test for the game breaking exploits or deal with them when reported.
My and my copious gaming budget would walk away without looking back if there was a wipe. There are plenty of other MMO's out there, I don't have to stick with ones whose word and competence cannot be trusted. If the game bombs, investors lose their money and people lose their incomes that's the price of failure. It'll be an object lesson the PWE and any other company that thinks it can cut corners.
/10char
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
But I just don't know how messed up the economy really is, and if it's fixable through other means. If it is, than that's preferable.
And maybe people don't have to look at a wipe like they're being punished. If the game is broken, do you really think you'll keep on having a nice time in the game when they change nothing?
All of the people playing now took a chance investing time (and money) in a game that openly states is still beta. No matter your argument of 'they accept money, so it's live' or 'open beta is considered live'.... in all practical (and thus legal) sense, it's beta, not an end-product, expect unexpected changes.
So, a wipe with cash-zen-restores if the economy is really that messed up, sure. But I hope not.