I think I would be all for this if the people who have spent money on Zen will get their purchases refunded.
Otherwise, it would be very unfair for them to do this as the game was lunched with the promise that there will be no account wipes. Possibly, people have sunk a lot of real money into this game and to wipe all that out would be somewhat tyrannical.
People who have brought things with AD purchased through packs should have that AD refunded as well...
They'd probably need a whole team to pull the logs, implement a wipe that wasn't designed before, get finance department involved, deal with increased complaints, this while trying to roll out new content as well.
The more I think about it, more difficult it seems to implement...
Sure it would be nice. But practically? Yea, I'd like peace in the middle east too.
Those who knowingly exploited should be punished severely - but how they find intent to exploit a bug? Ban those who earned so much AD during the period of time? Ban those who earned too many equips? Scripts probably will need to be made to find these people. Taking time and effort off of production.
Certainly doesn't seem an easy issue to fix. Patching is a good step though... A full wipe seems like it would be difficult to do properly.
Not bothering to vote as this is a useless poll. No wipes means no wipes. Now if they want to ban the most egregious exploiters they have my vote to do that.
I would still play if there was a wipe - it doesn't mean I want one.
Regardless, Neverwinter have tweeted countless times (I count at least 6) that were will be no wipe.
They're banning exploiters, just not making it public.
An inflated economy will recover in a number of months - especially when new content/tier comes out.
Maybe if they gave me some dnd classes like ranger or cleric. With the current setup no.
0
kevlairMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2013
I've been playing the game as intended by PWE by doing a combination of Foundry, PvP and storyline quests as I am sure the overwhelming majority players have been. . I have been extremely pleased during the entire process as I am sure most people are. To punish the masses for the indescretions of a few would be absolutely inexcusable on every level.
I've been playing the game as intended by PWE by doing a combination of Foundry, PvP and storyline quests as I am sure the overwhelming majority players have been. . I have been extremely pleased during the entire process as I am sure most people are. To punish the masses for the indescretions of a few would be absolutely inexcusable on every level.
Well I totally sympathize with you, not taking care of this situation properly will show that the devs lack integrity, and that in itself will drive alot of people (myself included) away. In that situation you'd have a broken game to play for a while, then it will get to the point where they either shut it down, or throw it on maintenance mode and just let people live off the Foundry. I'd rather have a couple upset people now, only 2 weeks in, then have this game head to an early grave
0
bpphantomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If PWE were to refund everyone's expended Zen at that time as wel I'd consider it.
- bpphantom
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
Why should I be penalized for the indiscretions of others?
Let those who abused the system be punished.
If you want to devalue your own time invested knock yourself out! But do not devalue mine.
The developers permitted this behavior to go on for as long as it did let them put in the overtime and effort to correct it!
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
Why should I be penalized for the indiscretions of others?
Let those who abused the system be punished.
If you want to devalue your own time invested knock yourself out! But do not devalue mine.
The developers permitted this behavior to go on for as long as it did let them put in the overtime and effort to correct it!
The point is they won't and the game will suffer for it. Looking at other Cryptic titles it's quite obvious. The only way they're going to fix this is if they wipe it while still under the guise of "Open Beta"
Imo they should have split the Open Beta into two phases from the word go.
Phase 1: just a few months to clear all the major bugs, then wipe to begin phase 2 where no wipes will follow.
Hind sight 20:20.
Imo they should have split the Open Beta into two phases from the word go.
Phase 1: just a few months to clear all the major bugs, then wipe to begin phase 2 where no wipes will follow.
Hind sight 20:20.
Yup, only reason I can see for them not doing that is greed, people are more likely to play and invest in the cash shop when there's no wipes, even if they refund your zen when the wipe comes. If this situation isn't handled with integrity I'm never touching a PW game again.
The point is they won't and the game will suffer for it. Looking at other Cryptic titles it's quite obvious. The only way they're going to fix this is if they wipe it while still under the guise of "Open Beta"
The game is new. Content will come out in the next few months rendering 90% of items abused for worthless. The only thing left that will be damaged is the economy and as the abusers quit and new players join this will quickly become diluted.
For those saying no wipe cause a legit characters, ect. Just goes to show the how self centered people really are (not a personal attack on any poster). Think about it. You would rather have the game in ruins then have to spend a few days/weeks to start over.
I only get to play one maybe two days a week and I would rather start over with a fixed economy then have to deal with all these people who have exploited their way to the top. I would even be willing to lose my head start.
I really enjoy this game but watching what has transpired here is getting to the point of making me sick as a fellow gamer. To all the people who have exploited you should be ashamed of yourselves as human beings. To PWE/Criptic you should be ashamed as a company for allowing this to continue without extreme prejudice.
Not unless they refund me for the zen Ive already purchased. They said no wipe, so I bought zen taking them at their word. If they wipe, they sure as hell are gonna give me back the zen i've already used on my current character.
What the hell is wrong with you people? Do you really think that time has no value?
As i said before, i have a full time job and the time I invested in this game is priceless.
And no, some guys should stop saying "Go play another game then". Seriously, who the hell are you people to say what i should or shouldn't play? I have the right to decide that, not you. I want to play THIS game right now.
What i saw in these forums is a bunch of kids (and in some cases immature adults) asking for a character wipe. Why should I be penalized for the exploits committed by others? There's a thing called account log, you know? Devs can search there looking for acts against ToS.
The devs have to fix these exploits, ban exploiters and remove gear obtained using exploits from market.
I have a full time job and my time isn't a toy for people play with. Period.
I'm sorry but I have to LOL at our choice of words. Not the sentiment mind you, but how you chose to define your complaint. Your time 'playing a game' isn't a toy! Priceless visual.
zenraijMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2013
na wouldnt care as long as i had the stuff I purchased still available...
other than that, leveling isnt anything big and i enjoy it with friends. Everyone else that cares about the time commitment, here is a little tip.. we are alll going to die. Every time you wait for your next CD for a power is time you are getting closer to dying. So, theres actually no wasting, everything is a waste or its not a waste depending on your view, personality type... etc.
But I would say only if it was the easiest route for the developers, and if it takes that to get everything balanced. We as a community arent sure a wipe is really required. If you think it is, do you think the Moon is flat because all you see is a flat surface?
Even if they do wipe, it'll be a tough choice of when to do it.
Wipe now and there's a good chance many bugs will still be present and therefore we may face a repeat of the current events.
Wipe in a month or so when there will be a very minimal amount of bugs and face the fact that people will lose a whole lot more progression and therefore be more likely to never return.
They dont have to wipe existing characters. What they can do is create a separate server for all official launch new players so they wont be affected by our mistakes in this server. If we want to start over we can start over there. But whoever wants to stay can stay, they wont be wiped but theyll just be living in a broken server.
This is the only intelligent solution out there, Period.
For those saying no wipe cause a legit characters, ect. Just goes to show the how self centered people really are (not a personal attack on any poster). Think about it. You would rather have the game in ruins then have to spend a few days/weeks to start over.
I only get to play one maybe two days a week and I would rather start over with a fixed economy then have to deal with all these people who have exploited their way to the top. I would even be willing to lose my head start.
I really enjoy this game but watching what has transpired here is getting to the point of making me sick as a fellow gamer. To all the people who have exploited you should be ashamed of yourselves as human beings. To PWE/Criptic you should be ashamed as a company for allowing this to continue without extreme prejudice.
Thing is I'm against a wipe because apparently we have a fundamental difference of opinion. I don't consider the game in any way shape or form ruined. Does it have problems, yes, have their been exploits yes, but they're patching exploits as I type and the economy will fix it's self as new content is added ext ext.
As far as they should have gone with an open beta without the no wipe commitment, maybe. The problem is you don't get the numbers with that kind of thing and without the numbers you can't test server load and the people willing to do a wipe beta are typically the exploiters who don't report the exploits anyways so that they can use them when it goes live. That's what I've seen in other games anyways.
As far as cryptic being ashamed, they have people assigned to coding different area's. I'm sure each bug is being worked on, but what gets done first maybe a matter of how hard it is to find the bad code and to fix it. Meanwhile other teams are working on different things. Most recently I played ddo and they had a bug where players and bosses were getting randomly stuck in the walls due to a change to the havok physics engine. It took them three months ish to fix the problem during which time the game was unplayable. They have bugs still in game that go back to 2006. So far pwe is doing pretty good.
Assuming I get everything back from my founders packs, definitely (the AD included). Yeah, leveling over again would be a pain but I quite enjoyed questing to be honest, even if it is simple "kill x amount of x" or "find x amount of x" it's nice to relax and quest after a dungeon or something. As of right now, the people exploiting bugs don't have any effect on my gameplay or the fun I'm having playing the game so I couldn't care less.
Honestly, it has nothing to do with the exploiters as far as I'm concerned. It's the lack of content.
If they did a character wipe, I'd be done. Really not worth my time (yes I know, two weeks is a terribly long time to level a toon (sic)) but the fact is the game is so small and the leveling progression is so fast that there's no feeling of depth or actual character development.
So lets say they wipe. When T3 hits and some issues comes up and players decide to exploit it or any other new aspect in the future what then? Do we just wipe each time the game has a hiccup? Wiping the first time will show weakness in the company and the lack of confidence in the players for fear that it happening once means it can happen again will lead to a major drop in people buying ZEN or playing period.
So lets say they wipe. When T3 hits and some issues comes up and players decide to exploit it or any other new aspect in the future what then? Do we just wipe each time the game has a hiccup? Wiping the first time will show weakness in the company and the lack of confidence in the players for fear that it happening once means it can happen again will lead to a major drop in people buying ZEN or playing period.
That is why like in most games they have a test server. For people to try and break the game/exploit content.
For the bold part above.
My lack of confidence in the players is already extremely low. The exploiters/PvP afkers will be the first to come cry foul on the forums when/if banning start getting thrown around.
I have already sent a ticket in with 50+ names of people advertising afk PvP groups yesterday and those names were all gathered in under an hour while waiting in town for skirmishes/dungeon to pop. I have received an email back from PWE thanking me for the amount of time it must have taken me to copy down all of the @handles of people. (wasn't that hard with dual monitors running)
Normally I do not do things like this but watching chat for five minutes as an avid PvP player myself made me laugh at all the bads who claim to "have skillz". Sorry if you need to exploit to the top you are not a true PvPer. Period.
Thing is I'm against a wipe because apparently we have a fundamental difference of opinion. I don't consider the game in any way shape or form ruined. Does it have problems, yes, have their been exploits yes, but they're patching exploits as I type and the economy will fix it's self as new content is added ext ext.
As far as they should have gone with an open beta without the no wipe commitment, maybe. The problem is you don't get the numbers with that kind of thing and without the numbers you can't test server load and the people willing to do a wipe beta are typically the exploiters who don't report the exploits anyways so that they can use them when it goes live. That's what I've seen in other games anyways.
As far as cryptic being ashamed, they have people assigned to coding different area's. I'm sure each bug is being worked on, but what gets done first maybe a matter of how hard it is to find the bad code and to fix it. Meanwhile other teams are working on different things. Most recently I played ddo and they had a bug where players and bosses were getting randomly stuck in the walls due to a change to the havok physics engine. It took them three months ish to fix the problem during which time the game was unplayable. They have bugs still in game that go back to 2006. So far pwe is doing pretty good.
My time is just as important unless you are out saving lives then I digress.
If you do not think the economy is ruined in this game then you do not pay attention to the market at all.
Like you said though I would be fine with no wipe IF they start handing out bans(which they have not).
As far as testing goes then maybe they need more honest people beta testing/trying to break their game before release. I have been in 5 alpha/beta test for games and have reported all exploits/game breaking bugs when found.
I know they have teams working on other things then bugs I have been gaming for 10+ years anyone who has that is common knowledge. I know some bugs are harder, much harder, to fix then others. It is the simple fact that they have not said one single thing about what they intend to do/about said people whom have abused the exploits.
For introduction,i'm a freebie player so my vote doesn't count too much.I voted:yes i would play further for free after server wipe just as i did since i start.
As for the details i have a level 42 CW with a level 12 tailoring and level 7 leadership profession.I can understand people who are saying wipe would be a major loss for them.Although i didn't pay for this game yet, but i invested lot of my time in it (not to mention the stuff that i collected) and yes it would be a major loss for me too.I would like to stress out that i played the whole game fair n square and i never really understood those people who are used game exploits.It just boggles my mind why would anyone do that,ruin their own game/fun?
For me they are feel somehow short sighted,reducing their own time/fun in the game.Exploiting the game result that you get everything so fast that you wouldn't even have the chance to enjoy it.You just killing your own fun.We are (or at least me) here to fully enjoy the game as long as we can,that would be the point.Where is this urge coming from for these people to rush thru everything?
Ah... nevermind i will never understand them.
About the poll i voted yes for wipe because i don't think it is possible to track down every single exploiter, it just simply impossible to get so much manpower.Besides we are only playing this game for like TWO WEEKSnow lol!!!
Think of it.I would rather get a fresh start at the beginning (without exploits) and enjoy the game for many years than playing further as it now.Suffering from the collapsed economy for months or even a year.And also don't forget guys this is officially still BETA,it doesn't matter how some of us try to imply as if it would be a final release it is still BETA!So we are here just BETA testers which means our job to report exploits and prepare a possible server wipe (even if it wasn't the company's original intention but we are not prophets to see in the future, i can't blame them).
To end this frickin' long wall post,again this is just my personal thoughts and as i said earlier i'm a freebie player so my opinion doesn't mean much.Have a nice day everyone .
Comments
Otherwise, it would be very unfair for them to do this as the game was lunched with the promise that there will be no account wipes. Possibly, people have sunk a lot of real money into this game and to wipe all that out would be somewhat tyrannical.
People who have brought things with AD purchased through packs should have that AD refunded as well...
They'd probably need a whole team to pull the logs, implement a wipe that wasn't designed before, get finance department involved, deal with increased complaints, this while trying to roll out new content as well.
The more I think about it, more difficult it seems to implement...
Sure it would be nice. But practically? Yea, I'd like peace in the middle east too.
Those who knowingly exploited should be punished severely - but how they find intent to exploit a bug? Ban those who earned so much AD during the period of time? Ban those who earned too many equips? Scripts probably will need to be made to find these people. Taking time and effort off of production.
Certainly doesn't seem an easy issue to fix. Patching is a good step though... A full wipe seems like it would be difficult to do properly.
Would you still play if there was a wipe?
Regardless, Neverwinter have tweeted countless times (I count at least 6) that were will be no wipe.
They're banning exploiters, just not making it public.
An inflated economy will recover in a number of months - especially when new content/tier comes out.
Guardian Fighter
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
My char is legit and i have only 96k AD.
I have a full time job and my time isn't a toy for people play with. Period.
Yup.......
Why should I be penalized for the indiscretions of others?
Let those who abused the system be punished.
If you want to devalue your own time invested knock yourself out! But do not devalue mine.
The developers permitted this behavior to go on for as long as it did let them put in the overtime and effort to correct it!
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
Phase 1: just a few months to clear all the major bugs, then wipe to begin phase 2 where no wipes will follow.
Hind sight 20:20.
Yup, only reason I can see for them not doing that is greed, people are more likely to play and invest in the cash shop when there's no wipes, even if they refund your zen when the wipe comes. If this situation isn't handled with integrity I'm never touching a PW game again.
The game is new. Content will come out in the next few months rendering 90% of items abused for worthless. The only thing left that will be damaged is the economy and as the abusers quit and new players join this will quickly become diluted.
I only get to play one maybe two days a week and I would rather start over with a fixed economy then have to deal with all these people who have exploited their way to the top. I would even be willing to lose my head start.
I really enjoy this game but watching what has transpired here is getting to the point of making me sick as a fellow gamer. To all the people who have exploited you should be ashamed of yourselves as human beings. To PWE/Criptic you should be ashamed as a company for allowing this to continue without extreme prejudice.
What the hell is wrong with you people? Do you really think that time has no value?
As i said before, i have a full time job and the time I invested in this game is priceless.
And no, some guys should stop saying "Go play another game then". Seriously, who the hell are you people to say what i should or shouldn't play? I have the right to decide that, not you. I want to play THIS game right now.
What i saw in these forums is a bunch of kids (and in some cases immature adults) asking for a character wipe. Why should I be penalized for the exploits committed by others? There's a thing called account log, you know? Devs can search there looking for acts against ToS.
The devs have to fix these exploits, ban exploiters and remove gear obtained using exploits from market.
other than that, leveling isnt anything big and i enjoy it with friends. Everyone else that cares about the time commitment, here is a little tip.. we are alll going to die. Every time you wait for your next CD for a power is time you are getting closer to dying. So, theres actually no wasting, everything is a waste or its not a waste depending on your view, personality type... etc.
But I would say only if it was the easiest route for the developers, and if it takes that to get everything balanced. We as a community arent sure a wipe is really required. If you think it is, do you think the Moon is flat because all you see is a flat surface?
Wipe now and there's a good chance many bugs will still be present and therefore we may face a repeat of the current events.
Wipe in a month or so when there will be a very minimal amount of bugs and face the fact that people will lose a whole lot more progression and therefore be more likely to never return.
This is the only intelligent solution out there, Period.
As far as they should have gone with an open beta without the no wipe commitment, maybe. The problem is you don't get the numbers with that kind of thing and without the numbers you can't test server load and the people willing to do a wipe beta are typically the exploiters who don't report the exploits anyways so that they can use them when it goes live. That's what I've seen in other games anyways.
As far as cryptic being ashamed, they have people assigned to coding different area's. I'm sure each bug is being worked on, but what gets done first maybe a matter of how hard it is to find the bad code and to fix it. Meanwhile other teams are working on different things. Most recently I played ddo and they had a bug where players and bosses were getting randomly stuck in the walls due to a change to the havok physics engine. It took them three months ish to fix the problem during which time the game was unplayable. They have bugs still in game that go back to 2006. So far pwe is doing pretty good.
If they did a character wipe, I'd be done. Really not worth my time (yes I know, two weeks is a terribly long time to level a toon (sic)) but the fact is the game is so small and the leveling progression is so fast that there's no feeling of depth or actual character development.
That is why like in most games they have a test server. For people to try and break the game/exploit content.
For the bold part above.
My lack of confidence in the players is already extremely low. The exploiters/PvP afkers will be the first to come cry foul on the forums when/if banning start getting thrown around.
I have already sent a ticket in with 50+ names of people advertising afk PvP groups yesterday and those names were all gathered in under an hour while waiting in town for skirmishes/dungeon to pop. I have received an email back from PWE thanking me for the amount of time it must have taken me to copy down all of the @handles of people. (wasn't that hard with dual monitors running)
Normally I do not do things like this but watching chat for five minutes as an avid PvP player myself made me laugh at all the bads who claim to "have skillz". Sorry if you need to exploit to the top you are not a true PvPer. Period.
My time is just as important unless you are out saving lives then I digress.
If you do not think the economy is ruined in this game then you do not pay attention to the market at all.
Like you said though I would be fine with no wipe IF they start handing out bans(which they have not).
As far as testing goes then maybe they need more honest people beta testing/trying to break their game before release. I have been in 5 alpha/beta test for games and have reported all exploits/game breaking bugs when found.
I know they have teams working on other things then bugs I have been gaming for 10+ years anyone who has that is common knowledge. I know some bugs are harder, much harder, to fix then others. It is the simple fact that they have not said one single thing about what they intend to do/about said people whom have abused the exploits.
As for the details i have a level 42 CW with a level 12 tailoring and level 7 leadership profession.I can understand people who are saying wipe would be a major loss for them.Although i didn't pay for this game yet, but i invested lot of my time in it (not to mention the stuff that i collected) and yes it would be a major loss for me too.I would like to stress out that i played the whole game fair n square and i never really understood those people who are used game exploits.It just boggles my mind why would anyone do that,ruin their own game/fun?
For me they are feel somehow short sighted,reducing their own time/fun in the game.Exploiting the game result that you get everything so fast that you wouldn't even have the chance to enjoy it.You just killing your own fun.We are (or at least me) here to fully enjoy the game as long as we can,that would be the point.Where is this urge coming from for these people to rush thru everything?
Ah... nevermind i will never understand them.
About the poll i voted yes for wipe because i don't think it is possible to track down every single exploiter, it just simply impossible to get so much manpower.Besides we are only playing this game for like TWO WEEKSnow lol!!!
Think of it.I would rather get a fresh start at the beginning (without exploits) and enjoy the game for many years than playing further as it now.Suffering from the collapsed economy for months or even a year.And also don't forget guys this is officially still BETA,it doesn't matter how some of us try to imply as if it would be a final release it is still BETA!So we are here just BETA testers which means our job to report exploits and prepare a possible server wipe (even if it wasn't the company's original intention but we are not prophets to see in the future, i can't blame them).
To end this frickin' long wall post,again this is just my personal thoughts and as i said earlier i'm a freebie player so my opinion doesn't mean much.Have a nice day everyone