Do you actually remember Baldur's Gate? Think people are complaining about customization now...
That sounds like a problem with the DM. Just like claims that 4E doesn't "support roleplaying" is basically a problem with the group. I've had campaigns in 2e, 3e, and 4e and there's literally zero change in how campaigns went other than how combat works.
Except the the definition of "rich D&D experience" is subjective. For most people complaining here, it appears to be an extremely specific definition tailored to a specific edition and mechanics.
I've run and played campaigns in 2e, 3e, 3.5e, and 4e with over a half dozen DMs and 3-4 different groups. I've also played different editions of Shadowrun, GURPs, Paranoia, Savage Worlds, Deadlands, BESM, Necessary Evil, and probably things I've forgotten. When I think of D&D I don't think of combat mechanics and "customization" at all, because those have all changed while I've played D&D over the decades.
My definition of "D&D experience" is the tone of the campaigns, the setting, the party dynamic. It is a different experience from a "Shadowrun experience" or a "Paranoia experience" or a "Deadlands experience".
My Deadlands experience is about undead steampunk cowboys with magic six shooters, and the group talking like Clint Eastwood or John Wayne. My Paranoia experience is about Friend Computer, Commie Mutant Traitors, and stabbing your buddies in the back. My Shadowrun experience is about magical cyberpunk, carefully planning illegal activities, and then eventually having everything go hilariously FUBAR. The mechanics influence how a campaign plays, but it doesn't affect the actual experience - much of which is party dynamics, campaign flow, and the social interaction between friends.
My D&D experience is about my friends (usually filling the fighter, wizard, cleric and rogue archtypes long before MMOs existed) exploring Faerun, Athas, or Oerth, clearing dungeons, foiling plots, and defeating villains as a team. The mechanics have never played a significant part in the experience, because when you're thinking about mechanics you're not thinking about playing. That is an Out Of Character aspect, and it's the In Character portions of what we did that forms the D&D experience for me.
In 2e my rogue stabbed stuff, and the one and only Bladesinger I managed to roll died in his first session to a puddle of burning oil. In 3e/3.5e my swashbuckler was a cool nobleman, my wizard was highly efficient and unfriendly, and I ran a campaign where the (apparently mundane) kitten I introduced as a DM clue-bat became the more cared for and loved member of the party via cuteness. In 4e my favorite character was a Halfling Rogue. Yes, he was min/maxed and essentially untouchable, but that's not what I remember him for - he was a friendly barber with a mockney accent who chatted up every NPC we came across. I remember keeping extensive notes on what we discovered, but he was always blissfully oblivious as to what we were doing.
None of my fondest memories have to do with the mechanics behind any of the campaigns and characters. They all played different because the combat systems changed, but they all felt like D&D. Neverwinter Online is about wandering around the post-Spell Plague city of Neverwinter, and working together with my party to clear dungeons and foil nefarious Thayan plots. It plays different, but it still feels like D&D because my definition of the "D&D experience" is very broad, incorporating all the different editions and campaigns I've been involved in as well as two decades of D&D CRPGs.
So yes. Given that a "rich D&D experience" is subjective, it's entirely possible for it to be an unmeetable standard due to the definition someone applies to it.
Clerics are Divine Leaders, and Paladins are Divine Defenders. Both will smite stuff and have healing/recovery capabilities, but Paladin powers are focused around encouraging things to attack him (by punishing things that don't).
I believe number inflation is used to reduce the significance of variance. So it's a balance thing.
A fighter with 10 HP against an attack that deals 1-8 damage (1d8) is very swingy, he dies in 2-10 attacks.
A fighter with 1000 HP against an attack that deals 196-203 damage (1d8+195) is more predictable, he dies in 5-6 attacks.
This is probably the best post I've read in this thread. It's not that I'm super fond of the 4ed ruleset, but that this game gives me a very D&D feel to it very similar to the experience I remember playing 1st edition. I don't really think about the rules a lot when I'm playing. I think about the world I'm in and what I'm doing. That's fun for me.
The game perfectly captures the feeling of old school dnd crpgs like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Planescape Torment. It does so while making a nice transition into an action MMO.
I would say by that comment that you havent even played half those titles...
It captures NONE of the feeling of those games or the Realms themselves, this is mutated D&D cousin that has mated with warcraft..
I have played and beaten all of them (including IW2). I think it is the perfect melding of that style with an MMO. The combat is really nothing like those games, but then again I wouldn't particularly want that in an MMO anyways...
Then please get off the crack and play those games sober this game does nothing of the sort
This isnt D&D. It's World of fantasy-MMO-Craft #54 in a Forgotten Realms setting. It doenst have anything from the athmosphere you'd expect in a D&D game.
Tbh im kinda tired of all game development companies hopping on the MMO bandwagon, trying to copy WoW. There is no room for so many failing MMO's. In my opinion there should be max 3 or 4 MMO's around.
BioWare made some splendid D&D games 10-15 years ago, which sadly are outdated now and Gamespy has stopped to support online playing with these old games.
I think if some smart developer would re-invent these games and put it in a modern engine and modern toolset it could prove to be a huge succes (like NWN was back in the days). Sure, it wouldnt necessarily be an MMO, but at least it would be different.
I will pass on NWO and wish everyone a lot of fun, but tbh i think it's sad that such a great fantasy franchise went to bed with the Hunchback of the Notre Dame, creating such a cheap gaming experience. I hope that somehow D&D will be restored to it's former glory someday.
Actually, Gary Gygax was surprised when people expressed an interest in playing his setting. He assumed people would create their own, with their own characters inhabiting it.
So no, specific characters like those are not an integral part of his original vision.
He was to become Gygax's most famous character, and also his favourite to play.[4] Over several years of gameplay, mainly from 1973 to 1985, Gygax developed the character traits and adventures with which Mordenkainen would become associated, as well as raising the wizard to "twenty-something levels".[5] During this period, Gygax united Mordenkainen with eight of his other characters to form the Circle of Eight.[6][7][8] During his lifetime, Gygax never disclosed any of Mordenkainen's original game statistics.
is the protagonist in a series of fantasy novels and short stories written by Gary Gygax
I will stand by my statement as these were characters developed by Gary, one of them for Gary himself to play! If he was playing the character he was playing the game as he envisioned it should be.
Love the game, hate the customer service, i did like DnD online when it came out i still get that feeling playing this, if its not your cup of tea u can just stop playing, i did enjoy never winter nights, i still have that feeling playing this just wish we got sorcerer class instead of CW.
if game was all role of dice or turn based alot of people could be turned off, id still play probably i think more action style not having mana pool keeps the draw for people, and able play other peoples content is huge plus u won't get bored quickly.
Comments
This is probably the best post I've read in this thread. It's not that I'm super fond of the 4ed ruleset, but that this game gives me a very D&D feel to it very similar to the experience I remember playing 1st edition. I don't really think about the rules a lot when I'm playing. I think about the world I'm in and what I'm doing. That's fun for me.
Then please get off the crack and play those games sober this game does nothing of the sort
Tbh im kinda tired of all game development companies hopping on the MMO bandwagon, trying to copy WoW. There is no room for so many failing MMO's. In my opinion there should be max 3 or 4 MMO's around.
BioWare made some splendid D&D games 10-15 years ago, which sadly are outdated now and Gamespy has stopped to support online playing with these old games.
I think if some smart developer would re-invent these games and put it in a modern engine and modern toolset it could prove to be a huge succes (like NWN was back in the days). Sure, it wouldnt necessarily be an MMO, but at least it would be different.
I will pass on NWO and wish everyone a lot of fun, but tbh i think it's sad that such a great fantasy franchise went to bed with the Hunchback of the Notre Dame, creating such a cheap gaming experience. I hope that somehow D&D will be restored to it's former glory someday.
I will stand by my statement as these were characters developed by Gary, one of them for Gary himself to play! If he was playing the character he was playing the game as he envisioned it should be.
if game was all role of dice or turn based alot of people could be turned off, id still play probably i think more action style not having mana pool keeps the draw for people, and able play other peoples content is huge plus u won't get bored quickly.