I'd suggest DDO to anyone who has the patience & will to actually learn something. The system is great and the game is a lot of fun. It takes a bit to get the hang of it but it's well worth it if you do. If you "try it out" and split right away because you don't get it, then you've robbed yourself. I'll bet most people who run a character up to level 20 and up to 20 again in a second life would find it difficult to go back to the generic "MMO" type game. It's that cool.
That being said, Neverwinter isn't so bad. I'm having fun with it. I'm currently spending more time learning how to build dungeons in the Foundry than I am playing though. I can't wait to release my first dungeon for people to try out. This game has some good points & plays well. I like the quests/dungeons so far. Some Foundry quests I've been in have had a good "D&D" feel to them. Really fun!
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serenasummersMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
i agree since weapons have an actual dmg range instead of example 1D4 or 2D6 (2handed)
There is no customization of characters...whether it is skills or spells. Take, for example, a cleric of Sel
**EDIT
Ok then, can't even code a good vBulletin it seems...
Basically my rant was for all the old-school D&D types that know what THAC0 is and remember when elf was a CLASS rather than a race.
It is DnD just not what you have been playing recently. You ever play Basic, Expert, Advanced, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition? Those all have very little customization. Are you saying they are not DnD because they do not cater to what you want?
I know exactly how you feel...problem isn't the game...D&D is completely different these days. It is D&D that has changed. This 4th Edition stuff...eww...but hey it's better than that Ebberon crud!
4e was the second worst thing to happen to D&D... Eberron being the setting for DDO being the #1 :P
I love the action style, it's fun and all that.. My ONLY complaint it this: Character Classes and the lack of them.
Mage: In what D&D book ever written did a mage NOT get Fireball at some point? I understand the concept behind the "Control Mage." I'm cool with it, but I don't want a "Control Mage." I want a Mage Mage.. You know, one that has spells like "Melf's Acid Arrow", "Fireball", and even something like "Tenser's Floating Disk" (Probably spelled that wrong.)
Cleric: Since when does a cleric throw magical spears in lieu of smashing face with a mace? Waving around a cute little holy symbol incense burner thingy? Really?
I got what you're doing, it's cool.. Expand it to include the classes that all of us old-school D&D players (Not just us PnP old farts either, I'm talking like Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate players) enjoy.
Here's an Idea:
I want to play a Mage:
Do I want to play a jack of all trades mage or a specialized mage?
I pick specialized and from there I can choose a Control Mage, Necromancer, Pyromancer. etc.
What do you do about the "Jack of All Mages" mage? Easy.. Allow access to all the spells, but limit the number they can choose.
4th Edition D&D. Wizards of the Coast is only licensing games based on the 4th Edition rules. Lazerglovez is wanting a 3.0 or 3.5 based game and there will never be a new official D&D game based on those rules.
i guess we will just have to disagree Charonous. I see the HP change as a good bit more than a "cosmetic one". It is a total play changer. I don' have to be so mindful of the fight with 1,000+ hit points instead of 56 max.
Anyway, thanks for your answer.:cool:
Im with ya there, it IS a cosmetic change but, for me, it drastically alters the feel. I also hated this in other fantasy titles. es: "ZOMG HITS FOR 999,999 DAMAGE!!" lolwtf >.<
A Dwarf with no ax is like a Dwarf with no Beard! It's just wrong and disturbing!
damned straight
All that said, this is still early in development, and theres room to grow. The MMO is fun to play even if it doesnt feel D&D. Already Im placing bets on Druids being our 'coming soon' class based on the nature skill and the lack of a third spell caster class(while we have arguably 3 fighter classes)
I also want to see Rangers, fireballs and lightning bolts, ARCHERS... and twin swords(hopefully the ranger will do that) and Gnolls/Wererats that dont have psycho stupid looking mouths :P
What I find amusing is that this has to be the ONE and ONLY game with a D&D label on it where a solo mage has an EASIER time of it than a fighter with plate and shield!! lol Most of my real complaints for this game are rooted(I think) in that epic craptasm WotC calls 4e but till WotC changes that we're stuck with it. While I will never EVER shuck out even a dime for one of the 4e books or play 4e table top, it seems to have produced a fun mmo game with a quick combat system thats new and different from the mmo industry standard. But it still doesnt feel like the realms or D&D to me
I'd suggest DDO to anyone who has the patience & will to actually learn something. The system is great and the game is a lot of fun. It takes a bit to get the hang of it but it's well worth it if you do. If you "try it out" and split right away because you don't get it, then you've robbed yourself. I'll bet most people who run a character up to level 20 and up to 20 again in a second life would find it difficult to go back to the generic "MMO" type game. It's that cool.
That being said, Neverwinter isn't so bad. I'm having fun with it. I'm currently spending more time learning how to build dungeons in the Foundry than I am playing though. I can't wait to release my first dungeon for people to try out. This game has some good points & plays well. I like the quests/dungeons so far. Some Foundry quests I've been in have had a good "D&D" feel to them. Really fun!
I've been playing DDO for years.
Maybe I was thinking it would be a newer version of that (DDO is getting a little long in the tooth).
DDO doesn't have PvP (well, other than side-show PvP pits) and doesn't have dungeon crafting. I'm not sure how those things would work in DDO. Probably not that great.
I am going to enjoy this game for what it is and see where it goes over time but DDO is still home base for me.
As long as we're getting this off our chests, here's my beef:
I'm level 51.
I've seen about 6 mimics.
I've seen ONE gelatinous cube.
I've seen no mind flayers, beholders, and only glimpsed a dragon in a cutscene. Were our servers named like this in honor of their extinction, or something?
I've seen no displacer beasts, land sharks, umber hulks, Niogi, spelljammers (but airships? What happened, Toril?), slimes...
However, I've killed about a kajillion lvl 48... goblins.
I feel like the monsters that are most charasmatically "D&D" are being withheld from me, unless they also share facetime with an analogous MtG card somewhere.
The Lair of the MAD DRAGON is a level 33 dungeon...
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
This game has as much to do with 4th edition as 4th edition has to do with 2nd edition. That is names and likeness.
The pen and paper games have almost nothing in common as a game. I myself have mixed feelings (mostly negative) about the cash cow known as WotC. Though I do take great solice knowing more people than ever know about the fantasy genre of D&D. The imagination and creativity that these worlds and monsters bring outweigh any perversion of the game's root mechanics.
As an MMO this game's mechanics stand pretty strongly, even simple things like player clipping (Something I've always enjoyed) Rollerskate attacking doesn't exsist either. While I would like more available moves at a time it does well to keep you occupied in combat.
Monster and gear variety are deffinantly lacking and claiming the sake of balance is silly since balance is a fairytale. That said this game still has more mob variety than quite a few mmo's that I've played.
In short OP is around 15 years too late. TSR is gone.
Quite frankly, the game doesn't feel like D&D at all to me. I don't even consider it to BE a "D&D" game. The only thing it really shares with it are the class name, and a few of the spells. Yeah, 4th ed, made the game much more like a console button-masher, but meh.
Why can't my wizard use a staff?
Why can't my fighter dual wield?
Why can't my cleric use mace + shield?
Why can't my fighter wear leather or chain if I want to?
Where are all the iconic D&D spells? Fireball, lightning bolt, wall of fire, web, monster summoning, etc.
I could go on. So, yeah, it's not D&D to me. It's "fantasy mmo #3718" that has a few names gleaned from D&D. That's about it.
Hmm...no where on Cryptic's site does it say that this is a direct port of the table top game. It takes elements from 4e and incorporates them in to today's standard Action MMO. The D&D license is there so Cryptic can use D&D settings and NPC's. Same goes for Champions, and STO, license is there so they can use names from their respective IP.
The Lair of the MAD DRAGON is a level 33 dungeon...
Valid point. I am, after all, only describing my personal experience. 5-man content hasn't been my focus, so much as all solo content I can get my hands onto so far. I've played for, what, close to a week? Not a huge sampling. I actually appreciate you reminding me of this, since I've been meaning to circle back and tour some of this stuff now.
Here's my point, however. In the waterclock dungeon, I was ambushed by a gelatinous cube. It totally got the drop on me. The encounter was awesome. I wasn't expecting this reaction from myself, but I actually cheered out loud "Now that's D&D!"
Immediately I reflected on, why the heck did I just say that? It's because it was the first time the game threw what felt like a genuine D&D monster at me.
In the same way, when I open chests, I'm always crossing my fingers that it's actually a mimic. I love that stuff.
I'd really like to see more of these sorts of things.
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dlcarterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I play and like both NWO and DDO.
I first played D&D in the summer of 76 so we are getting close to 40 years (37). Seen many of DM's each had their own spin.
The rule books are meant as a guideline for the game.
I have been playing DDo for over 5 years and really enjoy it yes you can do more with character customization.
I am playing a dwarf Guardian Fighter here Smigit that is level 25 with 7494hp.
On DDO I also have a level 24 Smigit with 1096hp. Now the DDO Smigit is a custom job.
He can solo with a cleric hireling most DDO content that is not a raid or epic.
The craze on DDO for the last few years is TRing (true reincarnation). After you get to level 20 it is possible to begin its life all over again more powerful. Now to get to level 20 in DDO takes 1.9 mil xp the 2nd life is 3,139,102 xp and the 3rd is 4,358,500.
And then it is the same for all lives to level 20 after. One big difference in the games is the respawn when you die in NWO in DDO a cleric has to raise you or a party member has to take you to a res shrine or you have to buy a res cake from the ddo store.
The way I see the 2 games is I have 2 DM's running 2 different campaign worlds. I can say that in the last 30 years I have seen DM's worse than both games and some butchered the rules way more.
The big difference between the two is, yes you have to buy content. I have a yearly sub there with 40 character slots (the max per account), and I had to buy last summer's expansion plus Turbine is doing another paid expansion soon which I will buy.
My Guild is a bit larger in DDO and guilds there have levels my is 75 and we have a guild airship with buffs that last an hour.
Both games have good and bad about them. Right now I am slit between the 2 because being disabled I have played DDO way to many hours in the last 5 years.
Where lots of people are going multi life. I do have a few 4 that are on 2nd or 3rd life I have been working to get one of each class to level 20 or above. I say level 20 because 1-20 are the heroic and 21+ are the epic levels and I am on my last 4 classes.
Sorcerer (16) Monk (17) Paladin (15) Barbarian (12)
The ones I have gotten to above 20 are Wizard, Fighter, Bard, Rogue, 2 Rangers one of each type Arcane archer and tempest Melee,
Cleric, Artificer (Rogue w spells) and a Favored Soul.
Now I have hundreds of the D&D novels and most of the computer games. Most of the computer games can be found on GOG.com pretty cheap. To me both NWO and DDO feel like D&D. That is just me. One way NWO beats DDO to me is DDO has some serious memory leakage. Play DDO a few hours and switch through a couple of characters and the client side lag is so bad you have to shut the game down. One thing that DDO is like NWO is you really do not have to buy anything with real money. People farm in game favor for the Turbine points that are used to buy content. I know of one guy from northern Europe in my guild there that has put very little money into the game and has all of the content.
As for needing a key to play DDO do not know what that is about I have never had to have one outside of last years summer paid expansion. You download the game and then register with Turbine. Now some things are limited to free accounts like the number of auctions and the amount of coin you can carry. Plus you only start with 2 slots. if you buy Turbine Points with real money you become a premium member and get 2 more slots for a total of 4. Not sure about the auction and coin limits.
Both feel as much like D&D to me as any computer game can. You just have an unbending DM that sticks to its set of rules that is along the lines of AD&D just not 100%.
I am not lost, I am exploring. All who wander are not lost.
Not all who seem to be lost want to be found.
Why can't my wizard use a staff?
Why can't my fighter dual wield?
Why can't my cleric use mace + shield?
Why can't my fighter wear leather or chain if I want to?
Where are all the iconic D&D spells? Fireball, lightning bolt, wall of fire, web, monster summoning, etc.
I agree with this.......even DaggerDale had more options which was 4E as well.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is no customization of characters...whether it is skills or spells. Take, for example, a cleric of Sel
**EDIT
Ok then, can't even code a good vBulletin it seems...
Basically my rant was for all the old-school D&D types that know what THAC0 is and remember when elf was a CLASS rather than a race.
The problem is, it IS D&D like. Its just D&D 4th Edition, which arguably, isn't D&D like.
But that isn't Cryptic's fault. That's the current system for D&D, and I doubt WotC would let them use an old system. Kind of like DDO using AD&D rules.
The 4E rules literally play like an mmo with far less flexibility.
I personally don't mind, but I can see it being a turn off.
I do agree with some points made above me though, there could be more options.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
D&D 4th ed is D&D.
If flexibility is the core issue, then AD&D isn't D&D as Paladins can't be elves.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
A lot of the rigidity built into the system is going to bite them in the butt later on, too. Since every weapon, shield and piece of armor in the game is type-coded to a specific class, it means that introducing another class (eg, Paladin) that can use one of them (eg, shields) means they'll have to go back through and recode every single item of that type to be usable by another class.
They could have made it very simple and flexible: a character can choose what to wield/wear with an upper maximum dictated by class (no rogues in plate, for instance, obviously). A fighter is a fighter: they can CHOOSE to focus on either two-handed or sword+shield. Have certain moves that only work with certain weapons. If they want to focus on being a tank, feel free. Want to focus on dps instead? Go for it. Want to be a cleric who wields a mace and shield, like a traditional D&D cleric? Fine.
Instead, we have this incredibly pigeon-holed system where there are multiple "classes" of the same core class, and limited to a very narrow aspect of that class. And it's only going to get worse (and require more effort on the devs' part) as time goes on, and more and more classes are introduced. Which will lead to more bugs that need to be stamped out, which could have been avoided by making the system less rigid in the first place.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
While I know what you meant to say, I have to run with this: Paladins can't be anything but Paladins, hence they are Paladins...
AD&D doesn't have race-as-class.
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merrybelleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't play tabletop games and don't really care about the rules of the new generation of the game. My only experience with this style of game is Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, which were both excellent PC games. This game is far below the bar that those games set. The quests here are blah and so far they have only made 1 that I actually cared about the story. The npcs aren't so much characters as they are npcs, vastly unlike the the other games I mentioned. In fact, I know very freaking little about the main quest giver in the game because he doesn't even have his own story that I have seen yet, and that is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for a game with the Neverwinter title. Neverwinter is just another MMO, it isn't special or sparkly or fantastic, and it doesn't set itself apart from the gazillion other MMOs out there the way that it would have had it been more like the older games.
I really am baffled at why Cryptic even bothered to make this game, because the games they made before offered a freaking ton of customization, and this is the worst game they have made. The only parts of this game that are good are the companions and the Foundry. I think the players will likely create far better questing than Cryptic did, so I'm going to stick around for that. by the way devs, if you are reading this, give more love to Champions Online, I enjoyed that game far better than this one.
This game is mind-numbingly boring. The more I play it the more I realize it's basically just a re-skinned Star Trek online but without the ships. The mobs are clue-less, all the quests are similar with similar cut-scenes showing the boss and then having him run towards you. All the dungeons seem the same, and the graphical engine is soo poorly optimized that lag is constant after the starting area. The items are boring, the quests are boring, it's all rinse and repeat. Warhammer online being 3-4 years old now was far more interesting. I mean really, picking up piles of 2 copper pieces when mobs die at level 16?..
Exactly how much meaningful customization did you have when you were playing that version of D&D in which Elf was a class? Especially if you weren't a spellcaster?
"Old-school" D&D wasn't about customizing character builds. That's more of a 3.X/4E era thing.
You are correct. When Elf was a class (back in the days of the Basic/Expert/Master sets) pretty much the only customisation you had was choosing what equipment you wore. Even in the days of AD&D customisation was extremely minimal.
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matzeraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
DND e4.0 is not old school DND. That being said, this game is a loose translation of the 4.0e ruleset into an Action MMO. The very essence of DND conflicts with an action games characteristics.
Basically the lore (Including rough class archetypes and locations) and the name are as close as this game will get to DND, due to the style of the game. That being said, I still love it.
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Back when elf was a class, characters werent really customizable either. THACO was totally broke after level 10. You mean I only have to roll a 3 to hit a GOD? The best thing that came out of 2E was segmented spell casting. It kept casters honest. Once they abandoned that, they had to nerf casters down to a couple at will powers, a couple encounter powers, and a daily, just to keep the game balanced.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are correct. When Elf was a class (back in the days of the Basic/Expert/Master sets) pretty much the only customisation you had was choosing what equipment you wore. Even in the days of AD&D customisation was extremely minimal.
Character kits were the customization part, and by the time 3rd edition hit, there were countless kits.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
are you talking about DDO? I heard that game is really really bad...i even tried to play, and you have to request a key from the devs via email..i requested one, never got it, guess they didn't want me to play.
I also heard the cash shop was WORSE than what people deem NW to be.
I could be wrong, not having first-hand experience (although i tried!!!).
DDO is fine; it's based off of 3rd Edition/3.5 rules. Character builds can be as simple as "I'm a rogue" and as complex as you want; pick your class at each level up and build that way. One of my favorite characters is my Halfling 13 Monk/2 Rogue with full Dragonmarks of Healing.
Some people think the cash shop is bad, some like it. All I know is that it's possible to buy everything you need without ever spending a cent if you're willing to grind for it in DDO (or in LotRO for that matter).
So sorry, that is not a word. The game itself is fine; not everything is soloable by all classes - nor should it be. You'll find much the same in any MMO.
They do, however, own Taco Bell, and KFC. So in 4E, rogues don't have to roll to disable traps? I know I have yet to fail one if they do. If the game is getting that far away from the D20 system, is it really still the same game?
Yes, Rogues (or anyone, really) need to roll against their Thievery skill to disable a trap. Although generally it's a more complex process than a single roll; it's called a Skill Challenge. There might be Acrobatics or Athletics rolls involved, plus Perception rolls to find key points to disable; possibly an Endurance check to see if you can hold your breath long enough to avoid breathing in the poison gas. All in all, it's more engaging than 'I hit a 32 DC, does that disable the trap?' IMO.
Are Search and Spot not skills you need to see a stealthed rogue? Did they really minimalize that rogue skill that much?
Search, Listen, and Spot are all rolled into a general Perception skill in 4E.
Rogues in 4E can't stealth until level 10? You can feel free to take this as snark, if you wish, after all, I'm just a dumb *** right? But the fact is, I simply don't know, and frankly, if I have to google every time I automatically make, or fail, a skill check, what's the point?
Sneak is not an automatic skill for Rogues, although it is on their skill list. If you choose not to train it, you still have a chance to Sneak around, however. Any skill can be attempted untrained, except for certain uses (like Detect Magic, which can only be done by a person trained in Arcana).
The game hasn't changed that much. The thing I like about it is that it gets most of the nitpicky little rules interactions out of the way so I don't need to stop every 5 minutes to look up some little change that player X claims takes precedence out of one of the hundreds of splat-books the players insist I need. (Yeah, yeah, rule 0 has always existed, but you know how rules lawyers can get.) The nice thing is that everyone now has something cool and flavorful they can do every round; it's not the fighter going 'I full attack' while the wizard goes, 'Hmmm... Fireball, Lightning Bolt, or Bigby's Enraging Digit this round?'
So sorry, that is not a word. The game itself is fine; not everything is soloable by all classes - nor should it be. You'll find much the same in any MMO.
soloable
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
Character kits were the customization part, and by the time 3rd edition hit, there were countless kits.
OK, but consider the point the OP was trying to make. Kits came in splat books. Was core AD&D 2E "not D&D" due to the lack of customization kits later provided?
And it's rather silly to compare a just released, open beta game to the entire 10-year run of a game, don't you think? Just as 2E added kits, Neverwinter may well gain analogous options. Even just adding more paragon paths (which seems highly likely) would be a lot like adding kits.
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That being said, Neverwinter isn't so bad. I'm having fun with it. I'm currently spending more time learning how to build dungeons in the Foundry than I am playing though. I can't wait to release my first dungeon for people to try out. This game has some good points & plays well. I like the quests/dungeons so far. Some Foundry quests I've been in have had a good "D&D" feel to them. Really fun!
it's not D&D? huh.. weird. Maybe it's supposed to say "Dongles & Dredges"?:
4e was the second worst thing to happen to D&D... Eberron being the setting for DDO being the #1 :P
^HELLZ YES
The sad, brutal, truth
Im with ya there, it IS a cosmetic change but, for me, it drastically alters the feel. I also hated this in other fantasy titles. es: "ZOMG HITS FOR 999,999 DAMAGE!!" lolwtf >.<
damned straight
All that said, this is still early in development, and theres room to grow. The MMO is fun to play even if it doesnt feel D&D. Already Im placing bets on Druids being our 'coming soon' class based on the nature skill and the lack of a third spell caster class(while we have arguably 3 fighter classes)
I also want to see Rangers, fireballs and lightning bolts, ARCHERS... and twin swords(hopefully the ranger will do that) and Gnolls/Wererats that dont have psycho stupid looking mouths :P
What I find amusing is that this has to be the ONE and ONLY game with a D&D label on it where a solo mage has an EASIER time of it than a fighter with plate and shield!! lol Most of my real complaints for this game are rooted(I think) in that epic craptasm WotC calls 4e but till WotC changes that we're stuck with it. While I will never EVER shuck out even a dime for one of the 4e books or play 4e table top, it seems to have produced a fun mmo game with a quick combat system thats new and different from the mmo industry standard. But it still doesnt feel like the realms or D&D to me
Maybe I was thinking it would be a newer version of that (DDO is getting a little long in the tooth).
DDO doesn't have PvP (well, other than side-show PvP pits) and doesn't have dungeon crafting. I'm not sure how those things would work in DDO. Probably not that great.
I am going to enjoy this game for what it is and see where it goes over time but DDO is still home base for me.
I think a lot of us had a vain hope it would be :P At least the controls arent at gods awful as DDO's are
The Lair of the MAD DRAGON is a level 33 dungeon...
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
The pen and paper games have almost nothing in common as a game. I myself have mixed feelings (mostly negative) about the cash cow known as WotC. Though I do take great solice knowing more people than ever know about the fantasy genre of D&D. The imagination and creativity that these worlds and monsters bring outweigh any perversion of the game's root mechanics.
As an MMO this game's mechanics stand pretty strongly, even simple things like player clipping (Something I've always enjoyed) Rollerskate attacking doesn't exsist either. While I would like more available moves at a time it does well to keep you occupied in combat.
Monster and gear variety are deffinantly lacking and claiming the sake of balance is silly since balance is a fairytale. That said this game still has more mob variety than quite a few mmo's that I've played.
In short OP is around 15 years too late. TSR is gone.
R.I.P TSR
Why can't my wizard use a staff?
Why can't my fighter dual wield?
Why can't my cleric use mace + shield?
Why can't my fighter wear leather or chain if I want to?
Where are all the iconic D&D spells? Fireball, lightning bolt, wall of fire, web, monster summoning, etc.
I could go on. So, yeah, it's not D&D to me. It's "fantasy mmo #3718" that has a few names gleaned from D&D. That's about it.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
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Valid point. I am, after all, only describing my personal experience. 5-man content hasn't been my focus, so much as all solo content I can get my hands onto so far. I've played for, what, close to a week? Not a huge sampling. I actually appreciate you reminding me of this, since I've been meaning to circle back and tour some of this stuff now.
Here's my point, however. In the waterclock dungeon, I was ambushed by a gelatinous cube. It totally got the drop on me. The encounter was awesome. I wasn't expecting this reaction from myself, but I actually cheered out loud "Now that's D&D!"
Immediately I reflected on, why the heck did I just say that? It's because it was the first time the game threw what felt like a genuine D&D monster at me.
In the same way, when I open chests, I'm always crossing my fingers that it's actually a mimic. I love that stuff.
I'd really like to see more of these sorts of things.
I first played D&D in the summer of 76 so we are getting close to 40 years (37). Seen many of DM's each had their own spin.
The rule books are meant as a guideline for the game.
I have been playing DDo for over 5 years and really enjoy it yes you can do more with character customization.
I am playing a dwarf Guardian Fighter here Smigit that is level 25 with 7494hp.
On DDO I also have a level 24 Smigit with 1096hp. Now the DDO Smigit is a custom job.
He can solo with a cleric hireling most DDO content that is not a raid or epic.
The craze on DDO for the last few years is TRing (true reincarnation). After you get to level 20 it is possible to begin its life all over again more powerful. Now to get to level 20 in DDO takes 1.9 mil xp the 2nd life is 3,139,102 xp and the 3rd is 4,358,500.
And then it is the same for all lives to level 20 after. One big difference in the games is the respawn when you die in NWO in DDO a cleric has to raise you or a party member has to take you to a res shrine or you have to buy a res cake from the ddo store.
The way I see the 2 games is I have 2 DM's running 2 different campaign worlds. I can say that in the last 30 years I have seen DM's worse than both games and some butchered the rules way more.
The big difference between the two is, yes you have to buy content. I have a yearly sub there with 40 character slots (the max per account), and I had to buy last summer's expansion plus Turbine is doing another paid expansion soon which I will buy.
My Guild is a bit larger in DDO and guilds there have levels my is 75 and we have a guild airship with buffs that last an hour.
Both games have good and bad about them. Right now I am slit between the 2 because being disabled I have played DDO way to many hours in the last 5 years.
Where lots of people are going multi life. I do have a few 4 that are on 2nd or 3rd life I have been working to get one of each class to level 20 or above. I say level 20 because 1-20 are the heroic and 21+ are the epic levels and I am on my last 4 classes.
Sorcerer (16) Monk (17) Paladin (15) Barbarian (12)
The ones I have gotten to above 20 are Wizard, Fighter, Bard, Rogue, 2 Rangers one of each type Arcane archer and tempest Melee,
Cleric, Artificer (Rogue w spells) and a Favored Soul.
Now I have hundreds of the D&D novels and most of the computer games. Most of the computer games can be found on GOG.com pretty cheap. To me both NWO and DDO feel like D&D. That is just me. One way NWO beats DDO to me is DDO has some serious memory leakage. Play DDO a few hours and switch through a couple of characters and the client side lag is so bad you have to shut the game down. One thing that DDO is like NWO is you really do not have to buy anything with real money. People farm in game favor for the Turbine points that are used to buy content. I know of one guy from northern Europe in my guild there that has put very little money into the game and has all of the content.
As for needing a key to play DDO do not know what that is about I have never had to have one outside of last years summer paid expansion. You download the game and then register with Turbine. Now some things are limited to free accounts like the number of auctions and the amount of coin you can carry. Plus you only start with 2 slots. if you buy Turbine Points with real money you become a premium member and get 2 more slots for a total of 4. Not sure about the auction and coin limits.
Both feel as much like D&D to me as any computer game can. You just have an unbending DM that sticks to its set of rules that is along the lines of AD&D just not 100%.
Not all who seem to be lost want to be found.
I agree with this.......even DaggerDale had more options which was 4E as well.
The problem is, it IS D&D like. Its just D&D 4th Edition, which arguably, isn't D&D like.
But that isn't Cryptic's fault. That's the current system for D&D, and I doubt WotC would let them use an old system. Kind of like DDO using AD&D rules.
The 4E rules literally play like an mmo with far less flexibility.
I personally don't mind, but I can see it being a turn off.
I do agree with some points made above me though, there could be more options.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
If flexibility is the core issue, then AD&D isn't D&D as Paladins can't be elves.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
While I know what you meant to say, I have to run with this: Paladins can't be anything but Paladins, hence they are Paladins...
They could have made it very simple and flexible: a character can choose what to wield/wear with an upper maximum dictated by class (no rogues in plate, for instance, obviously). A fighter is a fighter: they can CHOOSE to focus on either two-handed or sword+shield. Have certain moves that only work with certain weapons. If they want to focus on being a tank, feel free. Want to focus on dps instead? Go for it. Want to be a cleric who wields a mace and shield, like a traditional D&D cleric? Fine.
Instead, we have this incredibly pigeon-holed system where there are multiple "classes" of the same core class, and limited to a very narrow aspect of that class. And it's only going to get worse (and require more effort on the devs' part) as time goes on, and more and more classes are introduced. Which will lead to more bugs that need to be stamped out, which could have been avoided by making the system less rigid in the first place.
AD&D doesn't have race-as-class.
I really am baffled at why Cryptic even bothered to make this game, because the games they made before offered a freaking ton of customization, and this is the worst game they have made. The only parts of this game that are good are the companions and the Foundry. I think the players will likely create far better questing than Cryptic did, so I'm going to stick around for that. by the way devs, if you are reading this, give more love to Champions Online, I enjoyed that game far better than this one.
You are correct. When Elf was a class (back in the days of the Basic/Expert/Master sets) pretty much the only customisation you had was choosing what equipment you wore. Even in the days of AD&D customisation was extremely minimal.
Basically the lore (Including rough class archetypes and locations) and the name are as close as this game will get to DND, due to the style of the game. That being said, I still love it.
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Character kits were the customization part, and by the time 3rd edition hit, there were countless kits.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
DDO is fine; it's based off of 3rd Edition/3.5 rules. Character builds can be as simple as "I'm a rogue" and as complex as you want; pick your class at each level up and build that way. One of my favorite characters is my Halfling 13 Monk/2 Rogue with full Dragonmarks of Healing.
Some people think the cash shop is bad, some like it. All I know is that it's possible to buy everything you need without ever spending a cent if you're willing to grind for it in DDO (or in LotRO for that matter).
So sorry, that is not a word. The game itself is fine; not everything is soloable by all classes - nor should it be. You'll find much the same in any MMO.
Yes, Rogues (or anyone, really) need to roll against their Thievery skill to disable a trap. Although generally it's a more complex process than a single roll; it's called a Skill Challenge. There might be Acrobatics or Athletics rolls involved, plus Perception rolls to find key points to disable; possibly an Endurance check to see if you can hold your breath long enough to avoid breathing in the poison gas. All in all, it's more engaging than 'I hit a 32 DC, does that disable the trap?' IMO.
Search, Listen, and Spot are all rolled into a general Perception skill in 4E.
Sneak is not an automatic skill for Rogues, although it is on their skill list. If you choose not to train it, you still have a chance to Sneak around, however. Any skill can be attempted untrained, except for certain uses (like Detect Magic, which can only be done by a person trained in Arcana).
The game hasn't changed that much. The thing I like about it is that it gets most of the nitpicky little rules interactions out of the way so I don't need to stop every 5 minutes to look up some little change that player X claims takes precedence out of one of the hundreds of splat-books the players insist I need. (Yeah, yeah, rule 0 has always existed, but you know how rules lawyers can get.) The nice thing is that everyone now has something cool and flavorful they can do every round; it's not the fighter going 'I full attack' while the wizard goes, 'Hmmm... Fireball, Lightning Bolt, or Bigby's Enraging Digit this round?'
soloable
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I lol'd hard at the "Bigby's Enraging Digit" +5 points
OK, but consider the point the OP was trying to make. Kits came in splat books. Was core AD&D 2E "not D&D" due to the lack of customization kits later provided?
And it's rather silly to compare a just released, open beta game to the entire 10-year run of a game, don't you think? Just as 2E added kits, Neverwinter may well gain analogous options. Even just adding more paragon paths (which seems highly likely) would be a lot like adding kits.