Well looking at the 4th Ed weapon damage list...
...
This game is not using it! My Great sword is doing something like 27-38 damage v the 1d10 for 4th Ed D&D rules.
Neverwinter is not quacking like a duck. I saw a great sword for sale that boasted 400-600 damage!!! Since when did armor become Level specific to D&D? Again this is not walking like a duck!
A great sword IF use in a D&D game, should do D&D scale damage. No have different damage amounts for different level characters. That isn't how D&D works.
Now is it a fun game? So far yeah, I like it. It just isn't D&D.
I have loved every edition, inc 4e. Each has merits. I'm not a huge fan of Pathfinder since they made 3.5 even more rules intensive (the biggest detriment to D&D was the overabundance of rules and everything being quantified, rather than the DM pulling in favor of fun, we now have hours of ruleslawyering and 10 minutes of hack and slash, and next to no roleplaying)
When he gets to Heaven To Saint Peter he will say, "Hand me 4d6. Lets roll the dice and play!"
I'm accepting that this game is based on 4th ed D&D. Very loosely based, as it had to be adapted to mmo play.
Original PnP game were never balanced for this kind of environment. Truth be told, DDO is also not an exact represetation of 3rd ed D&D.
There is not enough classes, including my ever favorite melee cleric from 3.x ed and probably they should be added at some point (but then there is one question - how to make them different enough from paladins, for example, so both classes may be added?).
4th edition was a big shock for many players as it was completely different than a rather gradual ugrade (or downgrade, ymmv) from 2dn ed -> 3rd ed -> 3.5 ed. But previous editions are discontinued by WotC and nobody should be expecting them in a modern game made on WoTC licence.
Really, there is no point in complaining that NW is not based on discontinued rulesets. It was never hinted that NW will be a 3rd edition game. There are stil NWN1 and NWN2 shards for 3rd ed based gameplay.
Edit:
Or people may wait for Pathfinder mmo, but I'm sure it will not be an exact representation of PnP rules as well. Mmos have different requirements than cooperative rpgs.
I'm accepting that this game is based on 4th ed D&D. Very loosely based, as it had to be adapted to mmo play.
Original PnP game were never balanced for this kind of environment. Truth be told, DDO is also not an exact represetation of 3rd ed D&D.
There is not enough classes, including my ever favorite melee cleric from 3.x ed and probably they should be added at some point (but then there is one question - how to make them different enough from paladins, for example, so both classes may be added?).
4th edition was a big shock for many players as it was completely different than a rather gradual ugrade from 2dn ed -> 3rd ed -> 3.5 ed. But previous editions are discontinued by WoTC and nobody should be expecting them in a modern game made on WoTC licence.
Really, there is no point in complaining that NW is not based on discontinued rulesets. It was never hinted that NW will be a 3rd edition game. There are stil NWN1 and NWN2 shards for 3rd ed based gameplay.
Well so far the damage and hit point system isn't based on 4th Ed rules either. After that, I figured that the 4th Ed rules was for the Convention world event players since they seemed... streamlined.
erebus2075Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
well agreed the only thing this have to do with DD is the name. nothing else..
but i enjoy the game when looking aside the rediculess PTW which is the solo reason i am leaving as soon as something more shiny comes along..
My first DnD came in a red box! I followed it through 3rd edition or so, at which point real life meant that pen and paper games really didn't happen anymore.
From the DnD experience that I did get, I just can't see the same in the mechanics here. I do not know what are where this "4th edition" is, but does it really mean:
Stats are a minor segway, rather than an all encompassing modifier?
Saving throws are no more?
PnP DM's really calculate my damage as a combination of a used skill, armor penetration stat, power, and myriad of other modifiers rather than strength+weapon enchant+weapon type, using numbers in the many thousands?
Do classes REALLY completely pigeon hole themselves into same armor and weapon in the new edition?
I'll be honest, I'm GLAD it's not mechanically the DnD I grew up with. While serviceable as a pen and paper game, the core mechanics have always seemed limited and clumsy when translated to the digital environment. In my opinion, outside of giving a thousand times better gear variety(seriously, enough swords already), the game plays much better than it would if it where more "pure".
Well so far the damage and hit point system isn't based on 4th Ed rules either. After that, I figured that the 4th Ed rules was for the Convention world event players since they seemed... streamlined.
This is probably based on typical generic mmo model. Personally I don't like it, this kind of number inflation. I guess it makes the game more manageable for average players who are looking for a new mmo, but aren't familiar with D&D games.
I guess it's needed for selling this game and keeping gear grind threadmill running but I'd like normal values.
I'm really glad that game at least have no built in health regen outside of combat save for wearing specific gear.
Ghallanda denizens are barred from civilized society.
Back to your hole with you.
;-D
Heh.
See here's the thing.
I like D&D. I like WH40k. I will play nearly any game involving them, using any version of their rules.
My fondest memories of D&D are in the 2nd and 3.5 time periods, mostly because of other events in my life. Second to those would be the old Basic/Expert then AD&D days.
That said, after we finished the playtest, I ran a 4e game from 1 to 30 and played in others. My PNP group is getting ready for Next.
I'm a brand loyalist. I'd like DDO and NWO to both be better - and I'll play both. There are things I like about each, and things I dislike. I love the big public instances that DDO only does for events but NWO seems to do by default. I hate the fact in NWO that I can't move and attack, and I dislike the lack of options. That said, I totally see the draw as a new player with the constant dropping of level-appropriate gear, so that I'm pretty sure I'm not too far behind ... though it seems like the gearing is only a complex version of something like one of the Facebook games just scaled through more levels and a different mechanic. And I like the Z-pathing ... "share plz", "what house" and "new player has been dismissed from your party" seem less common. I like the questing structure of DDO better, and not enjoying the back and forth run-questing I've done so far (not past 20 yet) in NWO.
I'm a brand loyalist. I'd like DDO and NWO to both be better - and I'll play both. There are things I like about each, and things I dislike. I love the big public instances that DDO only does for events but NWO seems to do by default. I hate the fact in NWO that I can't move and attack, and I dislike the lack of options. That said, I totally see the draw as a new player with the constant dropping of level-appropriate gear, so that I'm pretty sure I'm not too far behind ... though it seems like the gearing is only a complex version of something like one of the Facebook games just scaled through more levels and a different mechanic. And I like the Z-pathing ... "share plz", "what house" and "new player has been dismissed from your party" seem less common. I like the questing structure of DDO better, and not enjoying the back and forth run-questing I've done so far (not past 20 yet) in NWO.
/derail on
Yeah both games could teach the other a thing or two.
I like that NWO drops gear that you can use and tweak to suit your needs. In DDO it's really hard to have decent gear on your first character.
Like you said, the big public instances make the game feel more alive. I kinda like the sprawl of NWO as well. DDO loses the sense of a wide world by having all of the quests lined up in a row.
But I really prefer DDOs grouping system. I like being able to see who is in what parties so you can join groups that have players you have had success with and avoid other players that you haven't had a good time with.
And I agree about how much more fun it is to be constantly moving while you attack like in DDO but on the other hand DDO's attack animations are pretty bla looking at this point.
I have only leveled a few characters here, highest level 36, but so far the quests need a little more thinking parts IMO.
Puzzles, mazes, things you have to time correctly or figure out.
The quests seem to mostly be: follow sparkly path to mobs, kill mobs, get stuff.
Maybe that changes as you get toward 60.
Have you played Baldur's Gate? Obviously, plenty of the exploits (cloud based attacks, for one) would have to go, but if that was modernized (i.e. first/third person 3D), I don't see how it would be a worse foundation than 4e.
Do you actually remember Baldur's Gate? Think people are complaining about customization now...
I will at least claim that the given world is bare-bones because it is supposed to be (and assumed to stay that way). Now go back and play in the dungeon and don't ask any questions about the reason why.
That sounds like a problem with the DM. Just like claims that 4E doesn't "support roleplaying" is basically a problem with the group. I've had campaigns in 2e, 3e, and 4e and there's literally zero change in how campaigns went other than how combat works.
Sorry for the serious snip, but I really wanted to address this point. What unmeetable standard are you referring to? Delivering on the hype? Who wrote the hype? Who insisted that we'd get a "rich D&D experience"? The players? No, the developers. So they set a standard for themselves they couldn't meet, and we're silly for holding them to it?
Except the the definition of "rich D&D experience" is subjective. For most people complaining here, it appears to be an extremely specific definition tailored to a specific edition and mechanics.
I've run and played campaigns in 2e, 3e, 3.5e, and 4e with over a half dozen DMs and 3-4 different groups. I've also played different editions of Shadowrun, GURPs, Paranoia, Savage Worlds, Deadlands, BESM, Necessary Evil, and probably things I've forgotten. When I think of D&D I don't think of combat mechanics and "customization" at all, because those have all changed while I've played D&D over the decades.
My definition of "D&D experience" is the tone of the campaigns, the setting, the party dynamic. It is a different experience from a "Shadowrun experience" or a "Paranoia experience" or a "Deadlands experience".
My Deadlands experience is about undead steampunk cowboys with magic six shooters, and the group talking like Clint Eastwood or John Wayne. My Paranoia experience is about Friend Computer, Commie Mutant Traitors, and stabbing your buddies in the back. My Shadowrun experience is about magical cyberpunk, carefully planning illegal activities, and then eventually having everything go hilariously FUBAR. The mechanics influence how a campaign plays, but it doesn't affect the actual experience - much of which is party dynamics, campaign flow, and the social interaction between friends.
My D&D experience is about my friends (usually filling the fighter, wizard, cleric and rogue archtypes long before MMOs existed) exploring Faerun, Athas, or Oerth, clearing dungeons, foiling plots, and defeating villains as a team. The mechanics have never played a significant part in the experience, because when you're thinking about mechanics you're not thinking about playing. That is an Out Of Character aspect, and it's the In Character portions of what we did that forms the D&D experience for me.
In 2e my rogue stabbed stuff, and the one and only Bladesinger I managed to roll died in his first session to a puddle of burning oil. In 3e/3.5e my swashbuckler was a cool nobleman, my wizard was highly efficient and unfriendly, and I ran a campaign where the (apparently mundane) kitten I introduced as a DM clue-bat became the more cared for and loved member of the party via cuteness. In 4e my favorite character was a Halfling Rogue. Yes, he was min/maxed and essentially untouchable, but that's not what I remember him for - he was a friendly barber with a mockney accent who chatted up every NPC we came across. I remember keeping extensive notes on what we discovered, but he was always blissfully oblivious as to what we were doing.
None of my fondest memories have to do with the mechanics behind any of the campaigns and characters. They all played different because the combat systems changed, but they all felt like D&D. Neverwinter Online is about wandering around the post-Spell Plague city of Neverwinter, and working together with my party to clear dungeons and foil nefarious Thayan plots. It plays different, but it still feels like D&D because my definition of the "D&D experience" is very broad, incorporating all the different editions and campaigns I've been involved in as well as two decades of D&D CRPGs.
So yes. Given that a "rich D&D experience" is subjective, it's entirely possible for it to be an unmeetable standard due to the definition someone applies to it.
There is not enough classes, including my ever favorite melee cleric from 3.x ed and probably they should be added at some point (but then there is one question - how to make them different enough from paladins, for example, so both classes may be added?).
Clerics are Divine Leaders, and Paladins are Divine Defenders. Both will smite stuff and have healing/recovery capabilities, but Paladin powers are focused around encouraging things to attack him (by punishing things that don't).
Personally I don't like it, this kind of number inflation.
I believe number inflation is used to reduce the significance of variance. So it's a balance thing.
A fighter with 10 HP against an attack that deals 1-8 damage (1d8) is very swingy, he dies in 2-10 attacks.
A fighter with 1000 HP against an attack that deals 196-203 damage (1d8+195) is more predictable, he dies in 5-6 attacks.
I believe number inflation is used to reduce the significance of variance. So it's a balance thing.
A fighter with 10 HP against an attack that deals 1-8 damage (1d8) is very swingy, he dies in 2-10 attacks.
A fighter with 1000 HP against an attack that deals 196-203 damage (1d8+195) is more predictable, he dies in 5-6 attacks.
Most likely.
I liked this kind of risky combat when two or more hits at low level were enough to kill a hero but I can't imagine it being very playable or just acceptable for an average mmo crowd.
I do like the grouping in DDO better. I kinda like the itemization in DDO as well in the "has an old PNP feel to it" ... that said, in the 4e games I've run we basically abandoned random loot. You get what you want, largely - everyone ends up with level appropriate stuff and it's just calc'd into your numbers (and 4e ASSUMES you have this anyway).
DDO really needs some more attack animations ... and NWO really needs to not pin you to the spot when you attack.
Caramon 8th Lvl fighter Human
STR18/63 WIS 10 Con 17 INT 12 DEX 11 CHR 15 Align LG HP 52
I know this cause I never took the Character Card out of my Wallet after GenCon08. The entire first trilogy of DragonLance books were played on TT before they were written into a book.
You may or may not want to be a Mage in a DragonLance TT RPG cause your power waxes and wains according to the moons. This is defined in the DragonLance setting Players Guide.
Drrz't was a book Supporting character before becoming a PnP NPC and hero of renown in the Forgotten Realms.
Know your facts.
a nicely done burn there my friend extra points for being a hardcore Dragonlance fan
As fun as NW is, I have to agree. It does not feel like DnD. Then again, it based upon the 4e rules, which really only resemble DnD in name. There's a reason that Wizards started on 5e so **** quickly. >.>
that reason is called Hasbro and its incessant demands for new product and more sales :P
Competitive PvP play in D&D or AD&D... Strange. These titles are PvE(or PvDM). There should be no attempt to make it into a PvP game! I have no interest in fighting other Adventuring Parties. I want to play through a "Module" an beat the bad guy. Then move on and play the next Module. I want to team up with my family and friends who are playing and slay monsters by the cart load! My ego ends at the idea of seeing if I am a better player then say Dadeleviathan! I don't care, I would rather adventure with him than against him. Cause I am cursed with a Heroes mentality.
Dade... Picked your name cause it was the first one I saw.:cool:
You are not. It's by far the best D&D, and wholly in line with its history, and Gary's original vision. Don't let the internet echo chambers get you down.
But I guess it has really been going downhill since WotC took over. It has been steadily dumbed down with each new edition.
Nah it was doing good when WotC took over, its when Hasbro bought WotC it went to ****. They forced their business model onto an incompatible industry because they had/have nfc how to handle the PnP RPG industry or its consumers.
You are not. It's by far the best D&D, and wholly in line with its history, and Gary's original vision. Don't let the internet echo chambers get you down.
Funny I thought Mordenkainen and Gord were Gary's vision of what His game should be!
Rather than just play the game and enjoy it or not on it's own merits, you insist that it somehow feel like you are playing "your" D&D which used a different system and involved actual people sitting around a table playing.
Actually, if the game didn't call itself "D&D" at all, I'd have absolutely no problem with it. Personally, I just mentally erase the "D&D" logo and play the game for what it is -- a fairly generic fantasy mmo set in the forgotten realms.
Maybe you hate the game, anyway, but don't act like a D&D game should be limited to only what you think it should be. In the last year people have played D&D, AD&D, 2nd edition, 3.X, and 4E, and all used a wide variety of campaign settings including their own, and I am sure that every one of those people felt like what they were doing was the way that D&D "should" feel.
If I hated it, I wouldn't play it. That seems to be a sticking point for you. As I've said over and over again, this game simply doesn't feel like D&D to me. Does that mean I'm going to say "Make it the way I want or I won't play!!!111111one"? Nope. However, I WILL voice my OPINION that it doesn't feel like D&D. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.
I'm glad this is the second coming of D&D games for you. Kudos. It's simply not D&D, to me.
Funny I thought Mordenkainen and Gord were Gary's vision of what His game should be!
Actually, Gary Gygax was surprised when people expressed an interest in playing his setting. He assumed people would create their own, with their own characters inhabiting it.
So no, specific characters like those are not an integral part of his original vision.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As a priest only player of both 1.0 and 2.5 i agree we do need more customization of both spells and how they look, but that hardly makes this unD&D-like. Ever read 4E rules? I have and they did what 4E demands.
This game ISNT D&D in its original form no way, sure the argument can carry on forever but thats kinda missing the point..
The reason people are miffed (well me personally ) is that the game has the bare elements of an RPG and to say its D&D is just insulting.
I mean i may have not played D&D for a few years but when did IQ's drop so rapidly that the only weapons in existence were swords,daggers,tennisballs & religious symbols...did the people of the realms just forget how to make them?
When did armour an weapons scale? cough.. err torchlight anyone:/
The character creation is an absolute joke wth every race being able to play every class just to make you feel special with a million others running around as the same class..
And dont even start on the ability rolls!! One of the most important and fun parts of D&D just laid bare and crapped on, restricted rolls meaning that whatever your back 3 stats are, are just ruled out regardless of your choice.
Add to that a rogue going toe to toe with a fighter in melee? That wouldnt be such a bad thing in a game where the stats were rolled properly and you could create a beastly rogue, but in one which is restricted an the rogue still comes out on top?? surely something is wrong with that??
I could list a million things wrong with this game
This game has found the gravestones of all previous D&D games and editions and just taken a massive dump on them..
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shodans2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
The game perfectly captures the feeling of old school dnd crpgs like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Planescape Torment. It does so while making a nice transition into an action MMO.
The game perfectly captures the feeling of old school dnd crpgs like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Planescape Torment (to some extent, anyways). It does so while making a nice transition into an action MMO.
I would say by that comment that you havent even played half those titles...
It captures NONE of the feeling of those games or the Realms themselves, this is mutated D&D cousin that has mated with warcraft..
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shodans2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
I would say by that comment that you havent even played half those titles...
It captures NONE of the feeling of those games or the Realms themselves, this is mutated D&D cousin that has mated with warcraft..
I have played and beaten all of them (including IW2). I think it is the perfect melding of that style with an MMO. The combat is really nothing like those games, but then again I wouldn't particularly want that in an MMO anyways...
Also, I loled when I came across this little gem whilst doing a 5man dungeon in Neverwinter
"you must gather your party before venturing forth"
There is no customization of characters...whether it is skills or spells. Take, for example, a cleric of Sel
**EDIT
Ok then, can't even code a good vBulletin it seems...
Basically my rant was for all the old-school D&D types that know what THAC0 is and remember when elf was a CLASS rather than a race.
Get with the times, this is based on 4'th edition - seems like you've been in a coma for 20 years since you are stuck in 2'nd ed times.
And Elf being a class? Never heard of that... and I'm ancient.
Neverwinter Online Open Beta is an ongoing success
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delgatto42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 135Bounty Hunter
"you must gather your party before venturing forth"
The first time I saw that I was all . Right in my nostalgia!
Speaking of nostalgia, it's funny to now regard Baldur's Gate as a classic D&D game that "feels like D&D". I remember when it first came out, being all real-time 3rd person isometric. When I played it, I remember thinking "This is pretty fun, but it's not D&D. It's like a D&D combat simulator."
The first time I saw that I was all . Right in my nostalgia!
Speaking of nostalgia, it's funny to now regard Baldur's Gate as a classic D&D game that "feels like D&D". I remember when it first came out, being all real-time 3rd person isometric. When I played it, I remember thinking "This is pretty fun, but it's not D&D. It's like a D&D combat simulator."
Indeed. Rose-Tinted Glasses. People always forget they're wearing them.
Comments
...
This game is not using it! My Great sword is doing something like 27-38 damage v the 1d10 for 4th Ed D&D rules.
Neverwinter is not quacking like a duck. I saw a great sword for sale that boasted 400-600 damage!!! Since when did armor become Level specific to D&D? Again this is not walking like a duck!
A great sword IF use in a D&D game, should do D&D scale damage. No have different damage amounts for different level characters. That isn't how D&D works.
Now is it a fun game? So far yeah, I like it. It just isn't D&D.
I have loved every edition, inc 4e. Each has merits. I'm not a huge fan of Pathfinder since they made 3.5 even more rules intensive (the biggest detriment to D&D was the overabundance of rules and everything being quantified, rather than the DM pulling in favor of fun, we now have hours of ruleslawyering and 10 minutes of hack and slash, and next to no roleplaying)
Original PnP game were never balanced for this kind of environment. Truth be told, DDO is also not an exact represetation of 3rd ed D&D.
There is not enough classes, including my ever favorite melee cleric from 3.x ed and probably they should be added at some point (but then there is one question - how to make them different enough from paladins, for example, so both classes may be added?).
4th edition was a big shock for many players as it was completely different than a rather gradual ugrade (or downgrade, ymmv) from 2dn ed -> 3rd ed -> 3.5 ed. But previous editions are discontinued by WotC and nobody should be expecting them in a modern game made on WoTC licence.
Really, there is no point in complaining that NW is not based on discontinued rulesets. It was never hinted that NW will be a 3rd edition game. There are stil NWN1 and NWN2 shards for 3rd ed based gameplay.
Edit:
Or people may wait for Pathfinder mmo, but I'm sure it will not be an exact representation of PnP rules as well. Mmos have different requirements than cooperative rpgs.
It takes so much out of the game.
But I guess it has really been going downhill since WotC took over. It has been steadily dumbed down with each new edition.
but i enjoy the game when looking aside the rediculess PTW which is the solo reason i am leaving as soon as something more shiny comes along..
From the DnD experience that I did get, I just can't see the same in the mechanics here. I do not know what are where this "4th edition" is, but does it really mean:
Stats are a minor segway, rather than an all encompassing modifier?
Saving throws are no more?
PnP DM's really calculate my damage as a combination of a used skill, armor penetration stat, power, and myriad of other modifiers rather than strength+weapon enchant+weapon type, using numbers in the many thousands?
Do classes REALLY completely pigeon hole themselves into same armor and weapon in the new edition?
I'll be honest, I'm GLAD it's not mechanically the DnD I grew up with. While serviceable as a pen and paper game, the core mechanics have always seemed limited and clumsy when translated to the digital environment. In my opinion, outside of giving a thousand times better gear variety(seriously, enough swords already), the game plays much better than it would if it where more "pure".
This is probably based on typical generic mmo model. Personally I don't like it, this kind of number inflation. I guess it makes the game more manageable for average players who are looking for a new mmo, but aren't familiar with D&D games.
I guess it's needed for selling this game and keeping gear grind threadmill running but I'd like normal values.
I'm really glad that game at least have no built in health regen outside of combat save for wearing specific gear.
Heh.
See here's the thing.
I like D&D. I like WH40k. I will play nearly any game involving them, using any version of their rules.
My fondest memories of D&D are in the 2nd and 3.5 time periods, mostly because of other events in my life. Second to those would be the old Basic/Expert then AD&D days.
That said, after we finished the playtest, I ran a 4e game from 1 to 30 and played in others. My PNP group is getting ready for Next.
I'm a brand loyalist. I'd like DDO and NWO to both be better - and I'll play both. There are things I like about each, and things I dislike. I love the big public instances that DDO only does for events but NWO seems to do by default. I hate the fact in NWO that I can't move and attack, and I dislike the lack of options. That said, I totally see the draw as a new player with the constant dropping of level-appropriate gear, so that I'm pretty sure I'm not too far behind ... though it seems like the gearing is only a complex version of something like one of the Facebook games just scaled through more levels and a different mechanic. And I like the Z-pathing ... "share plz", "what house" and "new player has been dismissed from your party" seem less common. I like the questing structure of DDO better, and not enjoying the back and forth run-questing I've done so far (not past 20 yet) in NWO.
/derail on
Yeah both games could teach the other a thing or two.
I like that NWO drops gear that you can use and tweak to suit your needs. In DDO it's really hard to have decent gear on your first character.
Like you said, the big public instances make the game feel more alive. I kinda like the sprawl of NWO as well. DDO loses the sense of a wide world by having all of the quests lined up in a row.
But I really prefer DDOs grouping system. I like being able to see who is in what parties so you can join groups that have players you have had success with and avoid other players that you haven't had a good time with.
And I agree about how much more fun it is to be constantly moving while you attack like in DDO but on the other hand DDO's attack animations are pretty bla looking at this point.
I have only leveled a few characters here, highest level 36, but so far the quests need a little more thinking parts IMO.
Puzzles, mazes, things you have to time correctly or figure out.
The quests seem to mostly be: follow sparkly path to mobs, kill mobs, get stuff.
Maybe that changes as you get toward 60.
Btw I'm phillymiket on the ddo forums.
/derail off
That sounds like a problem with the DM. Just like claims that 4E doesn't "support roleplaying" is basically a problem with the group. I've had campaigns in 2e, 3e, and 4e and there's literally zero change in how campaigns went other than how combat works.
Except the the definition of "rich D&D experience" is subjective. For most people complaining here, it appears to be an extremely specific definition tailored to a specific edition and mechanics.
I've run and played campaigns in 2e, 3e, 3.5e, and 4e with over a half dozen DMs and 3-4 different groups. I've also played different editions of Shadowrun, GURPs, Paranoia, Savage Worlds, Deadlands, BESM, Necessary Evil, and probably things I've forgotten. When I think of D&D I don't think of combat mechanics and "customization" at all, because those have all changed while I've played D&D over the decades.
My definition of "D&D experience" is the tone of the campaigns, the setting, the party dynamic. It is a different experience from a "Shadowrun experience" or a "Paranoia experience" or a "Deadlands experience".
My Deadlands experience is about undead steampunk cowboys with magic six shooters, and the group talking like Clint Eastwood or John Wayne. My Paranoia experience is about Friend Computer, Commie Mutant Traitors, and stabbing your buddies in the back. My Shadowrun experience is about magical cyberpunk, carefully planning illegal activities, and then eventually having everything go hilariously FUBAR. The mechanics influence how a campaign plays, but it doesn't affect the actual experience - much of which is party dynamics, campaign flow, and the social interaction between friends.
My D&D experience is about my friends (usually filling the fighter, wizard, cleric and rogue archtypes long before MMOs existed) exploring Faerun, Athas, or Oerth, clearing dungeons, foiling plots, and defeating villains as a team. The mechanics have never played a significant part in the experience, because when you're thinking about mechanics you're not thinking about playing. That is an Out Of Character aspect, and it's the In Character portions of what we did that forms the D&D experience for me.
In 2e my rogue stabbed stuff, and the one and only Bladesinger I managed to roll died in his first session to a puddle of burning oil.
None of my fondest memories have to do with the mechanics behind any of the campaigns and characters. They all played different because the combat systems changed, but they all felt like D&D. Neverwinter Online is about wandering around the post-Spell Plague city of Neverwinter, and working together with my party to clear dungeons and foil nefarious Thayan plots. It plays different, but it still feels like D&D because my definition of the "D&D experience" is very broad, incorporating all the different editions and campaigns I've been involved in as well as two decades of D&D CRPGs.
So yes. Given that a "rich D&D experience" is subjective, it's entirely possible for it to be an unmeetable standard due to the definition someone applies to it.
That sounds like it belongs in /r/fatpeoplestories
Clerics are Divine Leaders, and Paladins are Divine Defenders. Both will smite stuff and have healing/recovery capabilities, but Paladin powers are focused around encouraging things to attack him (by punishing things that don't).
I believe number inflation is used to reduce the significance of variance. So it's a balance thing.
A fighter with 10 HP against an attack that deals 1-8 damage (1d8) is very swingy, he dies in 2-10 attacks.
A fighter with 1000 HP against an attack that deals 196-203 damage (1d8+195) is more predictable, he dies in 5-6 attacks.
Most likely.
I liked this kind of risky combat when two or more hits at low level were enough to kill a hero but I can't imagine it being very playable or just acceptable for an average mmo crowd.
I do like the grouping in DDO better. I kinda like the itemization in DDO as well in the "has an old PNP feel to it" ... that said, in the 4e games I've run we basically abandoned random loot. You get what you want, largely - everyone ends up with level appropriate stuff and it's just calc'd into your numbers (and 4e ASSUMES you have this anyway).
DDO really needs some more attack animations ... and NWO really needs to not pin you to the spot when you attack.
that reason is called Hasbro and its incessant demands for new product and more sales :P
Unfortunately no, or the game would have hit 5e by now or been dropped and killed by Hasbro for lack of profit.
someone finally said it
the delusions are strong with this one
Nah it was doing good when WotC took over, its when Hasbro bought WotC it went to ****. They forced their business model onto an incompatible industry because they had/have nfc how to handle the PnP RPG industry or its consumers.
Actually, if the game didn't call itself "D&D" at all, I'd have absolutely no problem with it. Personally, I just mentally erase the "D&D" logo and play the game for what it is -- a fairly generic fantasy mmo set in the forgotten realms.
If I hated it, I wouldn't play it. That seems to be a sticking point for you. As I've said over and over again, this game simply doesn't feel like D&D to me. Does that mean I'm going to say "Make it the way I want or I won't play!!!111111one"? Nope. However, I WILL voice my OPINION that it doesn't feel like D&D. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.
I'm glad this is the second coming of D&D games for you. Kudos. It's simply not D&D, to me.
Actually, Gary Gygax was surprised when people expressed an interest in playing his setting. He assumed people would create their own, with their own characters inhabiting it.
So no, specific characters like those are not an integral part of his original vision.
The reason people are miffed (well me personally ) is that the game has the bare elements of an RPG and to say its D&D is just insulting.
I mean i may have not played D&D for a few years but when did IQ's drop so rapidly that the only weapons in existence were swords,daggers,tennisballs & religious symbols...did the people of the realms just forget how to make them?
When did armour an weapons scale? cough.. err torchlight anyone:/
The character creation is an absolute joke wth every race being able to play every class just to make you feel special with a million others running around as the same class..
And dont even start on the ability rolls!! One of the most important and fun parts of D&D just laid bare and crapped on, restricted rolls meaning that whatever your back 3 stats are, are just ruled out regardless of your choice.
Add to that a rogue going toe to toe with a fighter in melee? That wouldnt be such a bad thing in a game where the stats were rolled properly and you could create a beastly rogue, but in one which is restricted an the rogue still comes out on top?? surely something is wrong with that??
I could list a million things wrong with this game
This game has found the gravestones of all previous D&D games and editions and just taken a massive dump on them..
I would say by that comment that you havent even played half those titles...
It captures NONE of the feeling of those games or the Realms themselves, this is mutated D&D cousin that has mated with warcraft..
I have played and beaten all of them (including IW2). I think it is the perfect melding of that style with an MMO. The combat is really nothing like those games, but then again I wouldn't particularly want that in an MMO anyways...
Also, I loled when I came across this little gem whilst doing a 5man dungeon in Neverwinter
"you must gather your party before venturing forth"
Get with the times, this is based on 4'th edition - seems like you've been in a coma for 20 years since you are stuck in 2'nd ed times.
And Elf being a class? Never heard of that... and I'm ancient.
"Dungeons & Dragons (1974–1976)
The elf first appeared as a player character class in the original 1974 edition of Dungeons & Dragons.[2][3]"
^ Gygax, Gary, and Dave Arneson. Dungeons & Dragons (3-Volume Set) (TSR, 1974)
Also People forget Bard is the original prestige class
The first time I saw that I was all
Speaking of nostalgia, it's funny to now regard Baldur's Gate as a classic D&D game that "feels like D&D". I remember when it first came out, being all real-time 3rd person isometric. When I played it, I remember thinking "This is pretty fun, but it's not D&D. It's like a D&D combat simulator."