I dont particularly understand why people like the BoE epics in their game. You're going to have excactly what's going on in Tera if you stay with this model. Evenetually new players will be alienated and be forced to grind Astral Diamonds instead of running instances like they should to progress for gear, cause the playerbase will all of a sudden dictate that you must have gear with an item level higher than the instance you're running requires, just look at Tera's endgame, case in point right there.
Not to mention if you can just buy your way to the best gear? Why even play? Just buy everything, run a couple instances, get bored cause nothing you need drops cause you have everything you can possibly want. that just sounds boring to me.
100% agree. Loved Tera, was lots of fun, but for the reasons stated here, is the reason I left the game to never return.
This is much more of a flaw, from my standing, with the loot system and the economy within the game rather than the fact that loot is BoE. Not to mention that BoP loot would make the auction house moot, which while nice from some perspectives, is not something the developers would be willing to deal with.
This is much more of a flaw, from my standing, with the loot system and the economy within the game rather than the fact that loot is BoE. Not to mention that BoP loot would make the auction house moot, which while nice from some perspectives, is not something the developers would be willing to deal with.
There are a ton of MMOs auction houses that run on selling vanity items / materials / Anything that isn't endgame gear. In fact, 90% of them is a good assumption. It's just their design and what they want out of this game, money. Nothing wrong with that, but honestly, they would make more money from having a huge and constant player base that will spend the odd 10 or 20 dollars on a cash shop item here and there rather than relying on the few people who will dump loads of cash to purchase currency to buy the best gear (Mainly because the AH runs on AD, that can also be attained through in-game means, meaning they aren't even profiting from every purchase in the AH)
Its a flawed design propelled by the quest for money, IMHO.
this wouldnt be so bad if the game had more pvp designed for endgame, but sadly pvp in this game is like 2 maps of one type of scenario.....so much potential......
having BoE from dungeons could allow everyone to gear up quick and since lvling in this game is just a joke it would have been nice to get geared up and lvl'd to have some fun pvp, but im seeing a downfall to all this when someone gets lvl 60 then all the gear and just sits like....well now what? i can pvp the same map over and over or just run in circles in town all day....and wait for a new patch.
Boe epics is good/bad totally depending on the company you keep, play with guild/friends and you have no problems with loot stealing maggots.
Well when this happens(max lvl best gear no endgame) it's normally called GO (game over), you move to other games or clean your room or something
To be honest, a good fix to this issue that will make both the devs and the majority player base happy would be, to make all endgame epics BoP but allow endgame PvE bosses to drop certain materials to create the best gear in the game, and said best gear would require a good amount of both BoE and BoP materials (So yet again, you couldn't just buy your way to the top) Giving both PvE re playability and still dipping their toes into the pool where the people who wanna pay for gear, still can.
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mystmysteriumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
There is a game that drops like a token that represents a piece of armor. You trade it in for the piece you want. Make that token bop, make the vendor resale value cheap and then we wear what we earn. Make the software disallow need if the char has that piece of armor.
Peace, Myst
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rainbowtunafishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Who are you competing against, who are you racing against? This is the wrong type of game for that mentality.
The end game is going to be a mixture of PvP , FOUNDRY, and a little bit of whatever end game dungeons they release.
But mainly the emphasis is going to be more on the dynamic side of the things - player generated content.
Every single MMORPG will have a large portion of the player base trying to compete with each other. When people play a game, they want to have fun, and a common idea of "fun" in an mmorpg is to be one of the better players in it. Not everyone has a tight knit group of IRL friends who want to play the same mmorpg or have the time for it, so they look into the game's playerbase to find people who have the same mentality or goals. Some just want to mess around and play casual but its inevitable to have people who want to compete to be the best. It's in our nature, to want the best of things.
There is a game that drops like a token that represents a piece of armor. You trade it in for the piece you want. Make that token bop, make the vendor resale value cheap and then we wear what we earn. Make the software disallow need if the char has that piece of armor.
Peace, Myst
I would hug you. But you're so far away. And in my computer.
So I'll just hug my computer.
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vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
need roll everything and give the item to the appropriate person if you win it.
I could not wait to be 60 so I can go epic dungeons... but... this thing... man, I dont even talk about it. This killed the game for me. I feel there is no point doing PvE concent.
Very bad design choice.
killed it how? you provide no kind of logical reason just a complaint and had the nerve to make a thread on it. What kills me reading the forums are threads like this.
If you do content just to stand around and look cool then there are plenty of games out there that do this. This game ( or i would like to think) is one that provides a fun action pact dungeon experience and lets you enjoy it.
This also raises the bar for what your expected to wear to enter such raids, at worst it could become a "Farm gold to buy epic to do the same dungeon that drops it so you can sell it". Players will start demanding people be in the very gear the dungeon drops in order to make it as easy as possible, which really hurts the overall endgame a lot. I have seen this happen before, it will likely eventually devolved into that here as well if all drops continue to be boe.
unless you like farming gold/paying money to make gold I guess...
On a personal note, I don't understand why people want to enjoy the gear but not enjoy the content itself. If the endgame content isn't fun and you don't want to play it, what will you do with that gear and why do you bother?
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cqcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
If you're going to make an argument for a supposed good economy, you should absolutely not reference Diablo 3.
Actually, you should probably stay away from Diablo 2 as well. That economy was based on items being marked by how many SoJ's they were worth. Not exactly healthy.
Besides, trading isn't the problem. It's people who are taking away class-based loot from other players who worked to get that loot, so they can sell it for a profit themselves. The solution is easy: Keep items BoE, but only allow classes which can use the items to roll need on them. Everyone else can roll greed - because that's what it is for them. The item isn't something they need. It's something they want to turn into a gain.
Sorry for the late reply, the nw forums wouldn't load for me.
I said economic freedom, d3 has far more freedom than any other game. As far as d2 goes, you have no idea what you are talking about and I'm not going to argue why. Keep items BoE and do not change anything at all. It was a lot of little suggestions like that which ended up making WoW such a simple game. If you want more gear, then need everything you can.
This also raises the bar for what your expected to wear to enter such raids, at worst it could become a "Farm gold to buy epic to do the same dungeon that drops it so you can sell it". Players will start demanding people be in the very gear the dungeon drops in order to make it as easy as possible, which really hurts the overall endgame a lot. I have seen this happen before, it will likely eventually devolved into that here as well if all drops continue to be boe.
These assumptions are so terrible its not even funny. The reason why people want you to be high geared in Tera is that it actually takes skill to beat the dungeons, nothing in it is simply tank and spank. You need to not only know the monsters big moves but you also have you be able to react to the bosses tells of attacks as every class.
killed it how? you provide no kind of logical reason just a complaint and had the nerve to make a thread on it. What kills me reading the forums are threads like this.
If you do content just to stand around and look cool then there are plenty of games out there that do this. This game ( or i would like to think) is one that provides a fun action pact dungeon experience and lets you enjoy it.
How contradictory, you say it provides a fun action pact dungeon experience, but you're not against the BoE epics? Having BoE epics will make the new 60s who buy the gear, NOT run the dungeon at all, because they don't need to. They will buy the gear and then go PvP or sit in town and just talk in chat.
You sir, failed.
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cqcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
This also raises the bar for what your expected to wear to enter such raids, at worst it could become a "Farm gold to buy epic to do the same dungeon that drops it so you can sell it". Players will start demanding people be in the very gear the dungeon drops in order to make it as easy as possible, which really hurts the overall endgame a lot. I have seen this happen before, it will likely eventually devolved into that here as well if all drops continue to be boe.
unless you like farming gold/paying money to make gold I guess...
On a personal note, I don't understand why people want to enjoy the gear but not enjoy the content itself. If the endgame content isn't fun and you don't want to play it, what will you do with that gear and why do you bother?
If you want this to be exactly like the mmo you are referring to, then go play that mmo.
Yeha you want to have fun, but also you want to be rewarded, its 50/50 !
If its fun with no reward.. it will eventually get boring.
If its not fun but rewarding it will also eventually get even more boring
All of this was intentional; they know what they're doing. This game is Pay to Win. To get what players will expect you to have to run the higher end dungeons, you will either have to grind AD for months or straight up buy Zen to convert it into AD to purchase the BoE purple gear. That is why the gear is BoE. It's a cash grab. I'm aware that I'm going to get flamed for this, so flame on, but I'm telling it the way it is.
This stuff might not be obvious in the early levels, but as you progress through the game and your nightmare lockboxes stack up and take up your bag space, the enchantments and rune success rates of fusions becomes 1%, and people with faster mounts than yours blow past your team in PvP and win matches because their mounts are quicker, it will all become very, very clear to you that this game is Pay to Win.
Something needs to be done about this asap. It's about 50/50 getting into a group that has someone who will need on the BOE's. It's almost sickening to me how greedy these people are. It's enough to make you wanna punch the ****er through the PC.
I think it would be a lot more effective if the end game dungeons had BoP gear as opposed to BoE to encourage players to have something to aspire to. There are many reasons I find this to be a preferred choice (insert arguments here).
I agree with you - but I don't find anything locked in stone at this point and suspect many things will change. If everyting is BoE it will be pay2win.. and the irony as that as a pay2winner (I've probably spent more than $350 on this game (founder packs (plural) and zen thus far) I like the idea of the money being a timesink saver - not a way to automatically get epics from dungeons - I want to wokr for that - farming potions/consumables etc. I'm happy to pay for - you kill the heart of a game if you take away being able to be rewarded for conquering the most advanced content.... money should never allow parity for that - if it does I stop spending.
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cqcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
Everyone should be needing on every boe, if they don't, it's their own fault they get nothing.
I am pretty certain PWE did this on purpose as a cash grab. I have not hit end game yet but I am not playing the game so I can hit max level then buy my way to gear, I like to play the game and gear up. If I can't do that because in a PUG its pretty much everyone needing everything then I doubt I will play beyond that.
Going out on a limb here, lets assume it was a design oversight (HA!) perhaps a solution would be make GREED roll won items BoE and NEED roll won BoP. Making needing an item you don't need pointless and actually making greed the sexy option.
Reported. For clarity, I want to make sure you are utilizing the loot system correctly. Make sure to need on every BoE so that you have some BoE's you don't need to trade for some BoE's you do need.
How do we know the person rolling need really needs the item, there is no time to look at his/hers/it's gear.
In a pug it is safest to roll need on everything and after the fighting has stopped you can trade with others
and have plenty of time to look at their gear to see if the need is real or just a potential gold seller trying to profit.
If only people were reading the chat you could talk about looting before you start killing.
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cqcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
How do we know the person rolling need really needs the item, there is no time to look at his/hers/it's gear.
In a pug it is safest to roll need on everything and after the fighting has stopped you can trade with others
and have plenty of time to look at their gear to see if the need is real or just a potential gold seller trying to profit.
If only people were reading the chat you could talk about looting before you start killing.
It doesn't matter what the other people need, if they are not doing the same thing, it's their fault.
The only semi-legitimate complaint I can see regarding BoE epics is that everyone will roll need on all loot now so they can sell what they can't use. Is that why you're upset, or is it that everyone can have access to the best gear in the game now?
And even that complaint can be extinguish by just playing with friends.
Cenie@ceniebaby - Dragon - Cleric - Member of Siren
Who are you competing against, who are you racing against? This is the wrong type of game for that mentality.
The end game is going to be a mixture of PvP , FOUNDRY, and a little bit of whatever end game dungeons they release.
But mainly the emphasis is going to be more on the dynamic side of the things - player generated content.
What this guys said.
I find it so hilarious all the morons here complaining about their gear being worthless just because someone else ALSO has that gear. How does that devalue your gear in any way? Here is a hint, it doesn't. It's still the same collection of pixels and math it was when you got it fool. What makes gear worthless is having it bound to you. Anything bound to you has a value of 0 since it is removed from the economy. Might as well be playing a single player game.
I love how you're all ignoring the fact that this game is just more overpriced pay to win <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. 35$ for something for a single character only? no thanks. Just wait till you have to unlock new gear slots with $$$.
Comments
100% agree. Loved Tera, was lots of fun, but for the reasons stated here, is the reason I left the game to never return.
There are a ton of MMOs auction houses that run on selling vanity items / materials / Anything that isn't endgame gear. In fact, 90% of them is a good assumption. It's just their design and what they want out of this game, money. Nothing wrong with that, but honestly, they would make more money from having a huge and constant player base that will spend the odd 10 or 20 dollars on a cash shop item here and there rather than relying on the few people who will dump loads of cash to purchase currency to buy the best gear (Mainly because the AH runs on AD, that can also be attained through in-game means, meaning they aren't even profiting from every purchase in the AH)
Its a flawed design propelled by the quest for money, IMHO.
Boe epics is good/bad totally depending on the company you keep, play with guild/friends and you have no problems with loot stealing maggots.
Well when this happens(max lvl best gear no endgame) it's normally called GO (game over), you move to other games or clean your room or something
Who are you competing against, who are you racing against? This is the wrong type of game for that mentality.
The end game is going to be a mixture of PvP , FOUNDRY, and a little bit of whatever end game dungeons they release.
But mainly the emphasis is going to be more on the dynamic side of the things - player generated content.
Peace, Myst
Every single MMORPG will have a large portion of the player base trying to compete with each other. When people play a game, they want to have fun, and a common idea of "fun" in an mmorpg is to be one of the better players in it. Not everyone has a tight knit group of IRL friends who want to play the same mmorpg or have the time for it, so they look into the game's playerbase to find people who have the same mentality or goals. Some just want to mess around and play casual but its inevitable to have people who want to compete to be the best. It's in our nature, to want the best of things.
I would hug you. But you're so far away. And in my computer.
So I'll just hug my computer.
killed it how? you provide no kind of logical reason just a complaint and had the nerve to make a thread on it. What kills me reading the forums are threads like this.
If you do content just to stand around and look cool then there are plenty of games out there that do this. This game ( or i would like to think) is one that provides a fun action pact dungeon experience and lets you enjoy it.
unless you like farming gold/paying money to make gold I guess...
On a personal note, I don't understand why people want to enjoy the gear but not enjoy the content itself. If the endgame content isn't fun and you don't want to play it, what will you do with that gear and why do you bother?
Sorry for the late reply, the nw forums wouldn't load for me.
I said economic freedom, d3 has far more freedom than any other game. As far as d2 goes, you have no idea what you are talking about and I'm not going to argue why. Keep items BoE and do not change anything at all. It was a lot of little suggestions like that which ended up making WoW such a simple game. If you want more gear, then need everything you can.
These assumptions are so terrible its not even funny. The reason why people want you to be high geared in Tera is that it actually takes skill to beat the dungeons, nothing in it is simply tank and spank. You need to not only know the monsters big moves but you also have you be able to react to the bosses tells of attacks as every class.
Better gear just makes it easier.
How contradictory, you say it provides a fun action pact dungeon experience, but you're not against the BoE epics? Having BoE epics will make the new 60s who buy the gear, NOT run the dungeon at all, because they don't need to. They will buy the gear and then go PvP or sit in town and just talk in chat.
You sir, failed.
If you want this to be exactly like the mmo you are referring to, then go play that mmo.
If its fun with no reward.. it will eventually get boring.
If its not fun but rewarding it will also eventually get even more boring
This stuff might not be obvious in the early levels, but as you progress through the game and your nightmare lockboxes stack up and take up your bag space, the enchantments and rune success rates of fusions becomes 1%, and people with faster mounts than yours blow past your team in PvP and win matches because their mounts are quicker, it will all become very, very clear to you that this game is Pay to Win.
First one is the act of packing things into a container, the other is an agreement with a person.
That is all I have to add right now... /spelling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mode off /apologize
BETA
I think what you meant to say was...
I think it would be a lot more effective if the end game dungeons had BoP gear as opposed to BoE to encourage players to have something to aspire to. There are many reasons I find this to be a preferred choice (insert arguments here).
I agree with you - but I don't find anything locked in stone at this point and suspect many things will change. If everyting is BoE it will be pay2win.. and the irony as that as a pay2winner (I've probably spent more than $350 on this game (founder packs (plural) and zen thus far) I like the idea of the money being a timesink saver - not a way to automatically get epics from dungeons - I want to wokr for that - farming potions/consumables etc. I'm happy to pay for - you kill the heart of a game if you take away being able to be rewarded for conquering the most advanced content.... money should never allow parity for that - if it does I stop spending.
Going out on a limb here, lets assume it was a design oversight (HA!) perhaps a solution would be make GREED roll won items BoE and NEED roll won BoP. Making needing an item you don't need pointless and actually making greed the sexy option.
How do we know the person rolling need really needs the item, there is no time to look at his/hers/it's gear.
In a pug it is safest to roll need on everything and after the fighting has stopped you can trade with others
and have plenty of time to look at their gear to see if the need is real or just a potential gold seller trying to profit.
If only people were reading the chat you could talk about looting before you start killing.
It doesn't matter what the other people need, if they are not doing the same thing, it's their fault.
And even that complaint can be extinguish by just playing with friends.
What this guys said.
I find it so hilarious all the morons here complaining about their gear being worthless just because someone else ALSO has that gear. How does that devalue your gear in any way? Here is a hint, it doesn't. It's still the same collection of pixels and math it was when you got it fool. What makes gear worthless is having it bound to you. Anything bound to you has a value of 0 since it is removed from the economy. Might as well be playing a single player game.
I love how you're all ignoring the fact that this game is just more overpriced pay to win <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. 35$ for something for a single character only? no thanks. Just wait till you have to unlock new gear slots with $$$.