These assumptions are so terrible its not even funny. The reason why people want you to be high geared in Tera is that it actually takes skill to beat the dungeons, nothing in it is simply tank and spank. You need to not only know the monsters big moves but you also have you be able to react to the bosses tells of attacks as every class.
Better gear just makes it easier.
First off, Tera is one game, there are many mmos, assuming the entire thing is based off one game is just...
Second, the bold is the point. If anyone can *technically* acquire better gear by grinding solo, when enough people have that gear, everyone will be expected to wear it. Because its easier, and they CAN expect it since it IS obtainable through other means, That really hurts people who want to play content the intended way, or dislike grinding gold/spending money endlessly before being able to do anything fun.
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cqcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
I never referred to any mmo actually so no idea what your talking about
First off, Tera is one game, there are many mmos, assuming the entire thing is based off one game is just...
Second, the bold is the point. If anyone can *technically* acquire better gear by grinding solo, when enough people have that gear, everyone will be expected to wear it. Because its easier, and they CAN expect it since it IS obtainable through other means, That really hurts people who want to play content the intended way, or dislike grinding gold/spending money endlessly before being able to do anything fun.
Dark age of camelot had that sort of thing too, but it never kill the game. OH look, WOW did it too with their game back in the day
Pinkamena Diane Pie - Great Warrior Fighter
One, two, Pinkie's coming for you, three, four, you better lock your door, five, six, grab your crucifix, seven, eight, gonna stay up late, nine, ten, never party again.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I've become spoiled on modern mmorpgs that have gotten with the times. Individual loot is where its at. One of the few things SWTOR got right. Even Torchlight 2 had instanced loot.
Not this antiquated 'rolling against a group of strangers for one piece of good gear' nonsense. I thought this drama fueled mechanic died out with subscriptions. Its sad when games actually make progress in design that uses simple solutions to make the game more enjoyable to tons of people only to have a company like Cryptic miss the memo.
I really enjoy this game but simple stuff like this bugs me to no end. There is no excuse in this day and age.
Hell even most modern games that still use unified loot like Tera, automatically default to the appropriate classes first. You know, to keep griefing to a minimum.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
sadly it also enables the "roll need on everything and whinge you're being self entitled if you complain" player to trololol all the way to the bank. Guess their queue system needs to be circumvented after all endgame eh xD
The lack of a need (for usable class only)/greed system in this game is one of the few things I literally hate about this game. The devs did a great job in a lot of areas with this game but that is simply weak in ways words cannot articulate. I understand their need to make money but that is one area they dropped the ball.
What would have been really nice was separate loot tables for players but being it is f2p I can understand why they didn't go that route. Not restricting need rolls based on class use for items? Yeah...that is ridiculous.
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townheroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Need on all items! Thanks cryptic!!!! All the loot is mine!
Need on all items! Thanks cryptic!!!! All the loot is mine!
I vote that we just slap these kinds of lazy trolling children on the wrists harder and with more frequency
*nice cup of tea and a biscuit of choice for the first mod to be so kind as to oblige*
Yes, it is an archaic system, and in many cases just griefing. But I'm kind of glad that they kept SOME of the older design methods in this game, GW2 tried to update the MMORPG genre, and the only thing they got totally right was the instanced loot. The entire game was bland as you could get and then it was nerfs after nerfs, all the while everyone was rerolling as warrior because it was performing better than anything else. Except in pvp where thieves were super backstabbing people once every few minutes and being nerf hammered because of that, despite mesmers being able... yeah you get the drift xD
Pay to win means you MUST pay money to stay competitive. Not the case here. If you want to think it's something else, call it something else instead of looking funny when you misuse it.
Doesn't Pay2Win mean you are pay some form of currency (In game or Real) to get the best gear rather then grind for it? So I think they used it right since you are paying to get the best gear rather then play the game for it, Pay to win. Don't know why you think it has to be only Real money for it to be applicable.
Problem with BOE is that AH will be overloaded with purple items, and that will push the prices down until everything is supercheap. Making it even easier to already get the easy gear :O, and then what?
Anyway having BOE as it is now is worst thing ever, they made it feel unfriendly to run with randoms in a MMO. Great job Cryptic!
I love the BoE drops.
Only thing I would change is the roll options so ninjaing is minimized. The option to allow class only gear to be rolled need only by the class it is for fixes this for me. A loot option with a checkbox and I am happy!
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
hate it...honestly, im the type of guy that does not want equipment for free or buy it, i want to find it...otherwise it has absolutly no value to me, no excitment and it breaks the game extremely quickly...there are these people that like to use console cheats, get insta max level, using exploits etc... im just not that - i am all about the excitment of nearly not making int in a dungeon and getting rewards with that super item...thats the whole reason why i play. Not to speak of the rolls - sorry but i get just really pissed if people roll on items they cannot use, that wasnt funny 10 years ago and it isnt now.
I'm fine with it as long as the really best gear is bop. meaning raid gear and the top notch stuff will be bop, the rest can be boe so you can buy gear for an alt to catch up with the current content.
Oh.... I thought there was a similar post a few days ago where I voiced my concern regarding this being like Tera where "endgame" concisted of grinding money/resources in order to get gear... Not actually doing the content for the gear. Multiple people assured me (and others) that it was only a selected few items that were BoE and they were generally worse than the BoP / dungeon seal items.
^If that is somehow not the case it truly does suck...
armored22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I can agree with the BoE drops but honestly just run stuff with friends. Don't have any? Well get out there and make some. Join a guild and run only with guildies as they will be less likely to ninja gear. Also you'll be able to form groups so that no one is crying over the same gear drops.
Everyone has or can make friends as everyone can join a guild. Socialize with the community and be nice!
Oh.... I thought there was a similar post a few days ago where I voiced my concern regarding this being like Tera where "endgame" concisted of grinding money/resources in order to get gear... Not actually doing the content for the gear. Multiple people assured me (and others) that it was only a selected few items that were BoE and they were generally worse than the BoP / dungeon seal items.
^If that is somehow not the case it truly does suck...
I'm fine with it as long as the really best gear is bop. meaning raid gear and the top notch stuff will be bop, the rest can be boe so you can buy gear for an alt to catch up with the current content.
That is not the case. Every dungeon drop is BoE. Even the highest Tier purples, all BoE.
Oh.... I thought there was a similar post a few days ago where I voiced my concern regarding this being like Tera where "endgame" concisted of grinding money/resources in order to get gear... Not actually doing the content for the gear. Multiple people assured me (and others) that it was only a selected few items that were BoE and they were generally worse than the BoP / dungeon seal items.
^If that is somehow not the case it truly does suck...
Even the gear you buy with seals is BoE. This game is Pay to Win in the purest definition of the term. You have absolutely no incentives to run dungeons. I have no idea how people can back these cash grabs up. This isn't even a cash shop issue, this is a game where people can spend real money on Zen and convert it into Astral Diamonds to purchase the highest tier purples without ever stepping foot into the dungeon they're dropped in. The worst part is that this isn't even unintentional. They made this choice on purpose.
Had no idea it was like this, really disappointing. Kinda takes away the sense of progress and achievement if you can just wave your credit card instead of actually playing the game
That is not the case. Every dungeon drop is BoE. Even the highest Tier purples, all BoE.
Except we havn't reached the raids nor the endgame yet. The dungeons we can currently do ain't the endgame. Most of the endgame hasn't been released yet. Still waiting on Gauntlgrym and the raids (if/when they come).
Even the gear you buy with seals is BoE. This game is Pay to Win in the purest definition of the term. You have absolutely no incentives to run dungeons. I have no idea how people can back these cash grabs up. This isn't even a cash shop issue, this is a game where people can spend real money on Zen and convert it into Astral Diamonds to purchase the highest tier purples without ever stepping foot into the dungeon they're dropped in. The worst part is that this isn't even unintentional. They made this choice on purpose.
Yes, that's kinda stupid, but as long as the top notch stuff that we will see in the future content is bop I'm fine with that. The game is not anymore pay to win than any other games. You can easily buy raid boosts in WoW and similar games for bop stuff, so stuff like that will always exist no matter what you do. The incentives to run the dungeons are probably the achivements, lore, and actually enjoying the content. If you ask me, buying an item from the ah is not enjoying the content.
Had no idea it was like this, really disappointing. Kinda takes away the sense of progress and achievement if you can just wave your credit card instead of actually playing the game
It's very well hidden for a majority of the game, or of course, till you see someone linking "TIER 2 EPIC TRICKSTER ROGUE [Name of shiny purple gear with a ton of stats on it] 2MIL AD" in zone chat. Then you start to wonder, do some digging, and find out that it gets way worse.
Had no idea it was like this, really disappointing. Kinda takes away the sense of progress and achievement if you can just wave your credit card instead of actually playing the game
You don't get achivements for buying the gear, the only way to get those is doing the content. But it makes things easier that's for sure. I don't mind having some stuff boe as long as the endgame gear is bop. Probably Gauntlgrym will be boe aswell, and that will suck. Let's hope they listen to the feedback and change that for the real endgame gear.
The Need/Greed needs to be changed so it is essentially a prio need-wise for classes who can use a certain item, otherwise in endgame pugs you'll just see everyone needing on everything....
You don't get achivements for buying the gear, the only way to get those is doing the content. But it makes things easier that's for sure. I don't mind having some stuff boe as long as the endgame gear is bop. Probably Gauntlgrym will be boe aswell, and that will suck. Let's hope they listen to the feedback and change that for the real endgame gear.
You know it doesn't bother me personally. If they want to simply pay to get the items then whatever. I personally would rather experience the content and the satisfaction of getting the item myself by completing the challenge as it is intended. What kills me though is that someone could roll need that has no ability to wear the item because "they need it for their alt" or "they need the AD" rather than the person playing the class and helping the group complete the dungeon/skirmish to begin with. That is where it gets incredibly lame especially considering how greedy some folks are.
Just to pump the brakes on the NW hate train people have been "waving credit cards" at end game gear in every single MMO ever. They just happened to buy them attached to accounts on e-bay, craigslist, etc. People who want end game gear without doing the content will always be there to pay cash to get what they want.
edit: I do think being able to roll need on red items needs to go though.
If you want to be guarantee to get highest possible loot without people needing on things they cant use just do dungeons with guild. How hard is that? If its still too random for you - do deal with group of 10 people that you will pve mainly with each other so then at some point you are guarantee or nearly guarantee to win roll.
Personally when doing runs with randoms if my group will be good as in - move fast, do proper heal/dmg/tank im NOT going to screw them over. But if they waste my time with afking, bad pulls or generally terrible playstyle - im going to roll need on everything because I can.
Seriously guys you need to grow up - if someone wants to buy for 2mil AD he got with zen exchange then let him - its his right.
What you possibly dont understand that f2p players role is to provide those spenders opportunities to get more invested into game. Thats whole business model. Cryptic sells Zen. F2P players sell items for diamonds and buy zen. P2W players buy Zen, and sell it for diamonds.
Just go play subscribe mmo, and dont cry over mechanic that makes sense. But on overpriced zen shop - I can agree.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The Need/Greed needs to be changed so it is essentially a prio need-wise for classes who can use a certain item, otherwise in endgame pugs you'll just see everyone needing on everything....
The game certainly feels like I'm competing against my party. Everyone needing anything valuable, people racing to loot single use chests, score sheets at the end of the instance, etc.
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korv0xMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Just to pump the brakes on the NW hate train people have been "waving credit cards" at end game gear in every single MMO ever. They just happened to buy them attached to accounts on e-bay, craigslist, etc. People who want end game gear without doing the content will always be there to pay cash to get what they want.
edit: I do think being able to roll need on red items needs to go though.
The difference is whether or not it is actual game design or against the ToS. Cryptic *wants* players selling the best gear on the AH so more people buy zen. It makes any sense of progression worthless though, since there *will* be plenty of high end gear sales on the AH for precious diamond -> zen conversions and throws any sense of gear progression out the window.
Seriously guys you need to grow up - if someone wants to buy for 2mil AD he got with zen exchange then let him - its his right.
You easily sound like the youngest person in this thread,
anyways I made it all the way to 50 without looking through the forums because I was afraid this is what i'd find..sigh..looks like it's time for a hiatus until wildstar or teso
Comments
I never referred to any mmo actually so no idea what your talking about
First off, Tera is one game, there are many mmos, assuming the entire thing is based off one game is just...
Second, the bold is the point. If anyone can *technically* acquire better gear by grinding solo, when enough people have that gear, everyone will be expected to wear it. Because its easier, and they CAN expect it since it IS obtainable through other means, That really hurts people who want to play content the intended way, or dislike grinding gold/spending money endlessly before being able to do anything fun.
Kind of contradictory there, LOL.
Not this antiquated 'rolling against a group of strangers for one piece of good gear' nonsense. I thought this drama fueled mechanic died out with subscriptions. Its sad when games actually make progress in design that uses simple solutions to make the game more enjoyable to tons of people only to have a company like Cryptic miss the memo.
I really enjoy this game but simple stuff like this bugs me to no end. There is no excuse in this day and age.
Hell even most modern games that still use unified loot like Tera, automatically default to the appropriate classes first. You know, to keep griefing to a minimum.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
The lack of a need (for usable class only)/greed system in this game is one of the few things I literally hate about this game. The devs did a great job in a lot of areas with this game but that is simply weak in ways words cannot articulate. I understand their need to make money but that is one area they dropped the ball.
What would have been really nice was separate loot tables for players but being it is f2p I can understand why they didn't go that route. Not restricting need rolls based on class use for items? Yeah...that is ridiculous.
I vote that we just slap these kinds of lazy trolling children on the wrists harder and with more frequency
*nice cup of tea and a biscuit of choice for the first mod to be so kind as to oblige*
Yes, it is an archaic system, and in many cases just griefing. But I'm kind of glad that they kept SOME of the older design methods in this game, GW2 tried to update the MMORPG genre, and the only thing they got totally right was the instanced loot. The entire game was bland as you could get and then it was nerfs after nerfs, all the while everyone was rerolling as warrior because it was performing better than anything else. Except in pvp where thieves were super backstabbing people once every few minutes and being nerf hammered because of that, despite mesmers being able... yeah you get the drift xD
Doesn't Pay2Win mean you are pay some form of currency (In game or Real) to get the best gear rather then grind for it? So I think they used it right since you are paying to get the best gear rather then play the game for it, Pay to win. Don't know why you think it has to be only Real money for it to be applicable.
Anyway having BOE as it is now is worst thing ever, they made it feel unfriendly to run with randoms in a MMO. Great job Cryptic!
Only thing I would change is the roll options so ninjaing is minimized. The option to allow class only gear to be rolled need only by the class it is for fixes this for me. A loot option with a checkbox and I am happy!
^If that is somehow not the case it truly does suck...
Main: "Daxt", Trickster Rogue @ Beholder.
Alt: "Daxt-Two", Great Weapon Fighter @ Beholder
Tune in @ http://da.twitch.tv/daxt86
Everyone has or can make friends as everyone can join a guild. Socialize with the community and be nice!
The more, the better.
That is not the case. Every dungeon drop is BoE. Even the highest Tier purples, all BoE.
Even the gear you buy with seals is BoE. This game is Pay to Win in the purest definition of the term. You have absolutely no incentives to run dungeons. I have no idea how people can back these cash grabs up. This isn't even a cash shop issue, this is a game where people can spend real money on Zen and convert it into Astral Diamonds to purchase the highest tier purples without ever stepping foot into the dungeon they're dropped in. The worst part is that this isn't even unintentional. They made this choice on purpose.
Yes, that's kinda stupid, but as long as the top notch stuff that we will see in the future content is bop I'm fine with that. The game is not anymore pay to win than any other games. You can easily buy raid boosts in WoW and similar games for bop stuff, so stuff like that will always exist no matter what you do. The incentives to run the dungeons are probably the achivements, lore, and actually enjoying the content. If you ask me, buying an item from the ah is not enjoying the content.
It's very well hidden for a majority of the game, or of course, till you see someone linking "TIER 2 EPIC TRICKSTER ROGUE [Name of shiny purple gear with a ton of stats on it] 2MIL AD" in zone chat. Then you start to wonder, do some digging, and find out that it gets way worse.
You don't get achivements for buying the gear, the only way to get those is doing the content. But it makes things easier that's for sure. I don't mind having some stuff boe as long as the endgame gear is bop. Probably Gauntlgrym will be boe aswell, and that will suck. Let's hope they listen to the feedback and change that for the real endgame gear.
Main: "Daxt", Trickster Rogue @ Beholder.
Alt: "Daxt-Two", Great Weapon Fighter @ Beholder
Tune in @ http://da.twitch.tv/daxt86
You know it doesn't bother me personally. If they want to simply pay to get the items then whatever. I personally would rather experience the content and the satisfaction of getting the item myself by completing the challenge as it is intended. What kills me though is that someone could roll need that has no ability to wear the item because "they need it for their alt" or "they need the AD" rather than the person playing the class and helping the group complete the dungeon/skirmish to begin with. That is where it gets incredibly lame especially considering how greedy some folks are.
edit: I do think being able to roll need on red items needs to go though.
If you want to be guarantee to get highest possible loot without people needing on things they cant use just do dungeons with guild. How hard is that? If its still too random for you - do deal with group of 10 people that you will pve mainly with each other so then at some point you are guarantee or nearly guarantee to win roll.
Personally when doing runs with randoms if my group will be good as in - move fast, do proper heal/dmg/tank im NOT going to screw them over. But if they waste my time with afking, bad pulls or generally terrible playstyle - im going to roll need on everything because I can.
Seriously guys you need to grow up - if someone wants to buy for 2mil AD he got with zen exchange then let him - its his right.
What you possibly dont understand that f2p players role is to provide those spenders opportunities to get more invested into game. Thats whole business model. Cryptic sells Zen. F2P players sell items for diamonds and buy zen. P2W players buy Zen, and sell it for diamonds.
Just go play subscribe mmo, and dont cry over mechanic that makes sense. But on overpriced zen shop - I can agree.
The game certainly feels like I'm competing against my party. Everyone needing anything valuable, people racing to loot single use chests, score sheets at the end of the instance, etc.
The difference is whether or not it is actual game design or against the ToS. Cryptic *wants* players selling the best gear on the AH so more people buy zen. It makes any sense of progression worthless though, since there *will* be plenty of high end gear sales on the AH for precious diamond -> zen conversions and throws any sense of gear progression out the window.
You easily sound like the youngest person in this thread,
anyways I made it all the way to 50 without looking through the forums because I was afraid this is what i'd find..sigh..looks like it's time for a hiatus until wildstar or teso