PWE's business models are ridiculous. They charge gems for almost every little thing and of course charge for respecs. I would much rather pay 60 dollars up front for the ability to have BASIC CHARACTER NEEDS provided to me with an in game currency (that is not gainable with real money)
If this game had GW2's business model (money up front, PVE respecs cost in game money, cash shop has limited items that affect gameplay) it would be cool. GW2 also has a money = ingame currency system but that isn't nearly as abuseable since neverwinter can be pay 2 win.
Many posts that say "IT'S FREE TO PLAY, THEY CAN BE AS RESTRICTING AS POSSIBLE" is like reverse entitlement or something. Overlooking serious flaws in favor of just blindly accusing people of being entitled and other ridiculously silly notions.
The worst part is they don't even meet you halfway, little compromises such as giving a free total respec at max level and not charging diamonds for every little thing a player might really need (such as scrolls, the fact such a basic need is there for purchase with 'precious' diamonds is really jarring) is the main problem with PWE. They can earn plenty of money by selling mounts, cosmetic items for characters, cosmetic transformation potions, not-so-expensive inventory/bank slots, etc but nope, they know that the majority of those who will pay are the typical people who say things like "IT'S FREE TO PLAY SHUT UP".
Unfortunately, the posts before mine seems to be the majority opinion so things will never really change. I like neverwinter but I have enough self control to not give in to ridiculous demands for my cash. I have bought many games, spent some money in other f2p games that I don't regret since I really did want it instead of it being shoved down my throat or generally "forced" upon me for the sake of character efficiency.
WoW, with their increasing price of respecs still made me think deeply about my choices since gold even though it is an ingame currency was still quite valuable but PWE did a good job in heavily separating ingane currency to actual cash earning currency as to lessen the importance of gold vs diamonds. Of course in GW2 you could convert your ingame currency into diamonds so that was nice too.
In the end, I don't regret spending 60 dollars on GW2, a game I don't play anymore since I felt the game was pretty worth it and the fact that I can go back to it whenever I want really puts me at ease. For WoW the experiences that game gave me was worth it in the end. The only purchases I really regret usually come from the few F2P game cash shops, because of what they could have done to make the game better vs putting it in a cash shop.
The smaller things such as paying for scrolls, gear on the AH for character power/almost everything else in the game, with diamonds (that can be purchased with cash) matter more to me than paying 6 dollars for a respec, it's the little things that people don't notice and these companies get away with doing.
And of course PWE has no business conforming to the vocal minority since they won't be paying for the game anyway! Why cater to their needs when they won't pay and the system is working!
I also find that people pay a ton for broken/buggy virtual goods when that **** wouldn't fly in an actual product. It feels like people who purchase/deal with virtual goods (such as videogames) mostly get no respect from the publishers, probably because they just gobble up whatever they spit out.
They sure do know their market.
I believe that f2p games should first provide basic in game needs (for mmos specifically this includes respecs at a fair cost to the player) and have a good base game in place, then a cash shop business model selling mostly cosmetic items (exp boosts would be fine too I think) that are well made and fairly priced. Also having an option to have player submitted designs/items would be nice too, much like TF2.
It's nice writing about something even though it'll never happen. It's nice to have a dream.
This, this and this. Very well said. Although personally I'm most bothered by the respec.
I too enjoy the game, but I worry I wasted a lot of money. I very much liked GW2 model and I would also be fine with a P2P model. Games aren't what they used to be.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I think we should remove respec's from the game. However if we are forced to have them then making them hard to get is best..Can we raise the price on respeccing pleas?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
So reroll? So..reroll in the game to maintain authenticity :P
Actually 4th edition the game this is pretending to be based on has retraining you could trade out a feat or skill or power every level. That would be more than enough to fix up mistakes made along the way. The bigger issue here though is that Viable for PVP and Viable for PVE are 2 different things.
What you fail to realize is that this is a business for them, they're here to MAKE MONEY. It's a very simple thing. Once you see it as this, then you'll understand why they do what they do.
I'm sure some of the people who made the game like the idea of giving people something great to play for free, but the F2P system is just another business model.
If you don't like the respec charge, then either re-roll, go play another game, or...omg, use your astral diamonds to buy zen and pay for it.
Either way it can be done through in game means and was "built" into the game.
Riot is a business too, Arenanet is a business, HiRez is a business, GGG is a business, Valve is a business, yet they all have successful F2P titles that don't milk their customers, and run off to completely irrelevant (and good quality) fluff or easy to get convenience.
That argument needs to die, you people that spout that nonsense really need to start using your brain.
If PWE just pulled their heads out of their asses and realized what a good game they have and do what the previous companies did they could have a goldmine, instead they prefer to just cash cow multiple games.
I'd pay Zen for some Respect in the game. How is respecing going to "win" this game for you? hmmm?
if you need this answered you probably don't know what flavor of the month means or why it exists. (also sidenote why it can exist even without respecs because rerolling as people are fond of talking about can server this exact purpose)
paying for a simple respect is complete greed. There are so many ways to make money in this game, but a respec???? what a scam. Once again perfect world does it again. I love how they can ruin a game so quickly....I want to change 1 point in my tree and that is it, but wait I have to pay 6 for a simple point LOL this game WILL fall like the others no doubt
Well a full respec can cost money, but at the moment it's too high. Allready wasted my free respec :O, want to try another build but i wont respec. My dps is lower at the moment but i dont mind, i will just wait for a new path to come.
if you need this answered you probably don't know what flavor of the month means or why it exists. (also sidenote why it can exist even without respecs because rerolling as people are fond of talking about can server this exact purpose)
FotM exists w/o respecs just fine, as you pointed out. People who want to play FotM builds have a nice little PL network already setup, so they make the level cap in 2, maybe 3, days or less.
Having no, or very pricey, respecs only hurts average and casual players. Especially since free respecs will have to be given out by Cryptic when they "balance" classes and abilities. Which will happen almost every update, if not every patch, for a while.
As for the ludicrous prices in the cash store... the only thing I've found reasonably priced are character slots. Let me give you a lesson from other F2P titles, Cryptic/PWE. Half of something is infinitely more valuable than 100% of nothing. Which is what you are going to get from most of your customer base with these prices, 100% of nothing. You would actually make more money if you cut all your prices (except for character slots) in half, simply because more than twice as many people would buy it.
As one completely ridiculous example, I got a companion today. Cleric in a box, but what gender? Well I picked the wrong one and named a chick Wilfred. Clicked on the Rename button and was presented with a bill for 6,000 zen.
Are you insane? 6,000 zen to rename a PET. That's $6. You want SIX DOLLARS (US) to rename a pet? One of use in that transaction was crazy or stupid. I still have my $6, so we'll see if the forum can figure out which one of us has the problem.
Another thing is, this game is not complete, there is only one paragon way. I have to chose it. what happens if the full version comes up? we all should get a free respec, at least for powers. 5$ for respec, thats ridiculous, especially in my country. If PWO gave some premium accounts for monthly fee to unlock at least few of those options and make them free of charge (eg. 11 euro per month for gold-fee respecs, epic mount for gold, and more character slots) i would be more than glad to pay. some say that subscription is stealing, well its MUCH less then buying all this zen sh%t.
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draxionasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Me and my friends playing the game also agree on the greediness of Perfectworld, that's killing the game fast. THINGS that will destroy this game in a few month's time:
- Paying (WAY TO MUTCH) Zen for renaming pet, respec token, legendary keys, ...
=> 1 Free respec and key a month ?
- No Original content or usefull stuff in Legendary boxes (mount you can get yourself later).
More Original (and random) loot from specific Boss-drops or characters even.
- Servers availability and performance (not enough servers).
- Not enough inventory space (thx to the enchantment-gems and -runes)
=> More or seperate inventory ?
- Not enough highend-lvl content, dungeons, raids, groupinstances, crafting, itemhunt, guildcontent.
- Iron Bars only available through Legendary boxes.
- Not enough tokens for armor are only usefull for a 2th character (Main character
gets not nearly enough tokens in
time to purchase even good 1 piece of armor or weapon);
(Lion tokens for example or drake on lvl 60).
Iff you want 2 pieces it's going to take you 4 to 6 months ??, What about a full set (nightmare).
- Not enough variation in classes and Paragon-paths yet (but there working on that still).
So far the game is pretty good, with very few bugs to discover.
Iff they can work on previous issues, they can still make this a great game, wich it is not yet at the moment.
Iff this is a FREE TO PLAY-game i rather spend my money on a "payed" game with some descent inventory space that's not overcharged.
Okay, you said neverwinter is not p2w right? then why i should pay for respect my character build? what i should do if i fail on my build? leveling another char? what i do if i dont have money? play a broken character? stop be greedy or all people leave of your game pls
It's not p2w if you don't screw up your build and need to respect. Its p2w if you can't figure the game out and need to buy multiple respects.
It's not p2w if you don't screw up your build and need to respect. Its p2w if you can't figure the game out and need to buy multiple respects.
That's pretty stupid, how am i supposed to know what works and what doesn't. Only way to "not screw up" your build is to wait for someone else to test it and then blindly follow his/her results. Which is no fun at all.
You also have to realize we all have to pay the same for the respec, whether we live in a country with a 500$ average pay or 2k$.
F2P model was made for sub par games that couldn't hold a healthy subscription based playerbase. The potential is there if you play it smart (like LoL). Putting a price tag on essential gameplay components just turns off people that can't spend much money on games and even tho the paying folks don't seem to get it, games like this don't survive without a freebie playerbase.
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rerstlosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Anyone who complains about the price of ANYTHING in a f2p game is a self-important child of entitlement.
PW: "Hey guys! Here's this totally free game for you to enjoy! No strings attached. Register, log in, have fun! There are a handful of things we charge for (we do have to keep the servers up for you, after all), but nothing game-breaking. But even those things can be earned for FREE in-game if you don't want or can't afford to spend the money. Just get out there and grind and it's yours to have ... for FREE!!!!"
Whiny entitlement babies: "Free is not cheap enough! give us more!"
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ketsumatsuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Sometimes I like to close my eyes and pretend this thread never happened.
Those were good times. Better times.
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shinohiraiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
I think a good solution, PW, is to just give players two builds for a character, one for pvp, another for pve...and you can charge **** watever price for respec you wan...I think that is fair enuff..because players just wanna have a different build for PVE vs PVP...yeah...
That's pretty stupid, how am i supposed to know what works and what doesn't. Only way to "not screw up" your build is to wait for someone else to test it and then blindly follow his/her results. Which is no fun at all.
You also have to realize we all have to pay the same for the respec, whether we live in a country with a 500$ average pay or 2k$.
F2P model was made for sub par games that couldn't hold a healthy subscription based playerbase. The potential is there if you play it smart (like LoL). Putting a price tag on essential gameplay components just turns off people that can't spend much money on games and even tho the paying folks don't seem to get it, games like this don't survive without a freebie playerbase.
You can respec feats with obtainable in-game astral diamonds. As for skills, there aren't that many choices to begin with. I'm hoping they'll give a respec once beta is complete or when/if they release additional paragon choices. If not, it's still cheaper than subscription based games.
A completely free game makes no economic sense for the publisher. If they can't make money off of Neverwinter, then they won't continue supporting the product.
Theyre no ONG. But some thing around the matter anyway.
Tons of pets, horses, fashion skins and goods that ppl love... sell that items with zen. (Path of exile way)
Tons of things that ppl love... inventory, respect point for your builds... but dont sell that items with zen or dont make it xpensive Why?. Casual players going out fast from this thing: i need 6 months for buy a ****ing bag. Thats all. No ppl, no money...
Anyone who complains about the price of ANYTHING in a f2p game is a self-important child of entitlement.
PW: "Hey guys! Here's this totally free game for you to enjoy! No strings attached. Register, log in, have fun! There are a handful of things we charge for (we do have to keep the servers up for you, after all), but nothing game-breaking. But even those things can be earned for FREE in-game if you don't want or can't afford to spend the money. Just get out there and grind and it's yours to have ... for FREE!!!!"
Whiny entitlement babies: "Free is not cheap enough! give us more!"
Lol, nice story. I have one for you.
Bus driver: "You can ride our bus to work for free but we can't let you sit in with us. We will tie a rope to your ankle and drag you to work each day, completely free. If you hang in there long enough, we might strap you to the front of the hood, you just have to grind through the life threatening injuries and disfigurement long enough. Don't forget that we are doing all this for free and you are getting a free ride to work!"
You: "Hmm, that doesn't really sound all that appealing and enjoyable ?"
Driver: "What part of a "free ride" didn't you understand ?"
You can respec feats with obtainable in-game astral diamonds. As for skills, there aren't that many choices to begin with. I'm hoping they'll give a respec once beta is complete or when/if they release additional paragon choices. If not, it's still cheaper than subscription based games.
A completely free game makes no economic sense for the publisher. If they can't make money off of Neverwinter, then they won't continue supporting the product.
I didn't see a single person on this forum advocating a completely free game. Every time cost discussion is up, someone comes out and goes "you can't have everything for free". No one is asking for a free game. Honestly, main reason why i'm asking for lower prices is because i've seen enough free games to know that the game this expensive has no chance of becoming anything but a niche game for a handful of hardcore fans. And i like the game so i don't really want that.
Also, cheaper then subscription based game ? If i wanted to have all the stuff subscription games offer, i would have to spend triple digits monthly on this.
What's the matter with you people. Why don't you just pretend this is WoW and pay $60 and then $15 more each month in Zen, pace yourself, and see what you can get? You will find the price comparable. Some things will be a little over priced to support the fact you have access to MOST of the game content for ZERO dollars. Then if people don't buy certain things in the cash shop, the price will come down. You don't need to whine about it. The devs not making sales is greater feedback than someone crying o the forums.
If you want to hop between specs for some reason, buy another character slot instead and make two.
What's the matter with you people. Why don't you just pretend this is WoW and pay $60 and then $15 more each month in Zen, pace yourself, and see what you can get? You will find the price comparable. Some things will be a little over priced to support the fact you have access to MOST of the game content for ZERO dollars. Then if people don't buy certain things in the cash shop, the price will come down. You don't need to whine about it. The devs not making sales is greater feedback than someone crying o the forums.
If you want to hop between specs for some reason, buy another character slot instead and make two.
Here is the statistical difference between a free player and a pay to win player.
That is an astronomical difference in a low skill cap gear grinding game.
Also the part in red is wrong, no need to lie to yourself.
Everyday I play this game I'll often think to myself "Hmm, Nexon isn't all that bad in comparison." I'm actually starting to believe that this entire game is a Nexon PR campaign to make the company look better. At least they can hire the talent to create a revolution.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
ahh, they need to change that definition a bit then.. take out that part about 'with very little effort' and it works pretty good, eh?
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This, this and this. Very well said. Although personally I'm most bothered by the respec.
I too enjoy the game, but I worry I wasted a lot of money. I very much liked GW2 model and I would also be fine with a P2P model. Games aren't what they used to be.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Making respecs so expensive doesn't make sense.
Riot is a business too, Arenanet is a business, HiRez is a business, GGG is a business, Valve is a business, yet they all have successful F2P titles that don't milk their customers, and run off to completely irrelevant (and good quality) fluff or easy to get convenience.
That argument needs to die, you people that spout that nonsense really need to start using your brain.
If PWE just pulled their heads out of their asses and realized what a good game they have and do what the previous companies did they could have a goldmine, instead they prefer to just cash cow multiple games.
First one should be free or allow you to respec the first few points.
Having no, or very pricey, respecs only hurts average and casual players. Especially since free respecs will have to be given out by Cryptic when they "balance" classes and abilities. Which will happen almost every update, if not every patch, for a while.
As for the ludicrous prices in the cash store... the only thing I've found reasonably priced are character slots. Let me give you a lesson from other F2P titles, Cryptic/PWE.
Half of something is infinitely more valuable than 100% of nothing.
Which is what you are going to get from most of your customer base with these prices, 100% of nothing. You would actually make more money if you cut all your prices (except for character slots) in half, simply because more than twice as many people would buy it.
Are you insane? 6,000 zen to rename a PET. That's $6. You want SIX DOLLARS (US) to rename a pet? One of use in that transaction was crazy or stupid. I still have my $6, so we'll see if the forum can figure out which one of us has the problem.
Again, see the bold text in my post above.
THINGS that will destroy this game in a few month's time:
- Paying (WAY TO MUTCH) Zen for renaming pet, respec token, legendary keys, ...
=> 1 Free respec and key a month ?
- No Original content or usefull stuff in Legendary boxes (mount you can get yourself later).
More Original (and random) loot from specific Boss-drops or characters even.
- Servers availability and performance (not enough servers).
- Not enough inventory space (thx to the enchantment-gems and -runes)
=> More or seperate inventory ?
- Not enough highend-lvl content, dungeons, raids, groupinstances, crafting, itemhunt, guildcontent.
- Iron Bars only available through Legendary boxes.
- Not enough tokens for armor are only usefull for a 2th character (Main character
gets not nearly enough tokens in
time to purchase even good 1 piece of armor or weapon);
(Lion tokens for example or drake on lvl 60).
Iff you want 2 pieces it's going to take you 4 to 6 months ??, What about a full set (nightmare).
- Not enough variation in classes and Paragon-paths yet (but there working on that still).
So far the game is pretty good, with very few bugs to discover.
Iff they can work on previous issues, they can still make this a great game, wich it is not yet at the moment.
Iff this is a FREE TO PLAY-game i rather spend my money on a "payed" game with some descent inventory space that's not overcharged.
It's not p2w if you don't screw up your build and need to respect. Its p2w if you can't figure the game out and need to buy multiple respects.
That's pretty stupid, how am i supposed to know what works and what doesn't. Only way to "not screw up" your build is to wait for someone else to test it and then blindly follow his/her results. Which is no fun at all.
You also have to realize we all have to pay the same for the respec, whether we live in a country with a 500$ average pay or 2k$.
F2P model was made for sub par games that couldn't hold a healthy subscription based playerbase. The potential is there if you play it smart (like LoL). Putting a price tag on essential gameplay components just turns off people that can't spend much money on games and even tho the paying folks don't seem to get it, games like this don't survive without a freebie playerbase.
'Back in my days you weren't simply not able to play a game' - Morgan Freeman
Am I the only one who thinks this guy is total idiot?
PW: "Hey guys! Here's this totally free game for you to enjoy! No strings attached. Register, log in, have fun! There are a handful of things we charge for (we do have to keep the servers up for you, after all), but nothing game-breaking. But even those things can be earned for FREE in-game if you don't want or can't afford to spend the money. Just get out there and grind and it's yours to have ... for FREE!!!!"
Whiny entitlement babies: "Free is not cheap enough! give us more!"
Those were good times. Better times.
Heard the Adage Nothing is Free in this world?
You can respec feats with obtainable in-game astral diamonds. As for skills, there aren't that many choices to begin with. I'm hoping they'll give a respec once beta is complete or when/if they release additional paragon choices. If not, it's still cheaper than subscription based games.
A completely free game makes no economic sense for the publisher. If they can't make money off of Neverwinter, then they won't continue supporting the product.
Tons of pets, horses, fashion skins and goods that ppl love... sell that items with zen. (Path of exile way)
Tons of things that ppl love... inventory, respect point for your builds... but dont sell that items with zen or dont make it xpensive Why?. Casual players going out fast from this thing: i need 6 months for buy a ****ing bag. Thats all. No ppl, no money...
Lol, nice story. I have one for you.
Bus driver: "You can ride our bus to work for free but we can't let you sit in with us. We will tie a rope to your ankle and drag you to work each day, completely free. If you hang in there long enough, we might strap you to the front of the hood, you just have to grind through the life threatening injuries and disfigurement long enough. Don't forget that we are doing all this for free and you are getting a free ride to work!"
You: "Hmm, that doesn't really sound all that appealing and enjoyable ?"
Driver: "What part of a "free ride" didn't you understand ?"
The end
I didn't see a single person on this forum advocating a completely free game. Every time cost discussion is up, someone comes out and goes "you can't have everything for free". No one is asking for a free game. Honestly, main reason why i'm asking for lower prices is because i've seen enough free games to know that the game this expensive has no chance of becoming anything but a niche game for a handful of hardcore fans. And i like the game so i don't really want that.
Also, cheaper then subscription based game ? If i wanted to have all the stuff subscription games offer, i would have to spend triple digits monthly on this.
If you want to hop between specs for some reason, buy another character slot instead and make two.
"Smell ya later!" -Gary, Pokemon
Here is the statistical difference between a free player and a pay to win player.
129 Armor Pen
622 Critical Strike
360 Defense
279 Power
892 Recovery
That is an astronomical difference in a low skill cap gear grinding game.
Also the part in red is wrong, no need to lie to yourself.
Everyday I play this game I'll often think to myself "Hmm, Nexon isn't all that bad in comparison." I'm actually starting to believe that this entire game is a Nexon PR campaign to make the company look better. At least they can hire the talent to create a revolution.
lmao
prolly best to nod your head and dont make eye contact. Failtards are dangerous creatures.