UNLESS you're respeccing as often as Lindsay Lohan goes to rehab, I doubt you'll miss that measly six dollars.
Whiners.
Someone earlier in this very thread posted that they would prefer to respec for the week to their farm build and then on the weekend respec to their PvP build and back. I personally see nothing wrong with charging that person $10 a week to do that if they want that convenience. But that same person is complaining that the price is to high and they MUST respec.
dunno about you but... i think respec was like 600 zen? cant say for sure i'd have to check... my point is... would take someone a long time to grind enough Ad to buy a respec... i already calculated, a bag costing 1.5 million AD... so yea isnt as viable as people make it out to be.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Don't forget that you can only refined 24k Astral Diamonds a day.
Additionally, if you make the respec with the money it will be a problem to change the core Powers for a class. Let's say a new patch is coming and they are buffing some other elements of the class. You gotta respec for that.. but wait!
Want to repaint my house for free? You can wash my car afterwards and mow my lawn every week too while you're at it. Why don't you buy me a cup of coffee on the way over from Starbucks too and as a tip, i'll give you a bit of advice: F2P is F2P.You want to respec but can't afford zen OK, here's a little secret:
Dont buy what you can't afford
Have fun with that while you're painting my house
DOUBLE PLAGIARISM! You have already stolen this quote in this thread that already had this quote earlier! GASP! TRIPLE PLAGIARISM!
Want to repaint my house for free? You can wash my car afterwards and mow my lawn every week too while you're at it. Why don't you buy me a cup of coffee on the way over from Starbucks too and as a tip, i'll give you a bit of advice: F2P is F2P.You want to respec but can't afford zen OK, here's a little secret:
Dont buy what you can't afford
Have fun with that while you're painting my house
I agree with that quote that doesn't belong to you .... But if I see you post it again I'm reporting you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
I agree with that quote that doesn't belong to you .... But if I see you post it again I'm reporting you.
He posted twice in this thread (Making 3 total in this thread), and twice in two other threads. He loves repeating himself when repeating other people.
*sighs* some people don't bother reading and then post
some of us have no problems putting some money down on a game and in fact I already bought 2 more char slots but I'm debating if I will put more money into the game if Zen keeps rearing its ugly head into things like respecs which are normally part of an MMO and not extra (and don't bother bringing up that older games didn't have it thats a stupid cop out since lots of things didn't use to exist like voice acting but hey neverwinter has that now too)
What you fail to realize is that this is a business for them, they're here to MAKE MONEY. It's a very simple thing. Once you see it as this, then you'll understand why they do what they do.
I'm sure some of the people who made the game like the idea of giving people something great to play for free, but the F2P system is just another business model.
If you don't like the respec charge, then either re-roll, go play another game, or...omg, use your astral diamonds to buy zen and pay for it.
Either way it can be done through in game means and was "built" into the game.
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brolleunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Perfect World or Cryptic’s micro transactions have always had one intention in mind: to rob the player of not only their expendable income, but their income set aside for food, clothing, water, and shelter. Moronic, idiotic, and mentally challenged individuals use the following fallacies to justify unethical practices when it comes to these corporations: appeals to popularity, worse than arguments, false correlations, or straw man arguments.
I suggest never giving Perfect World or Cryptic any of your income until they find an ethical business model that sells the player convinces and aesthetics (not power) and a model that doesn’t exploit these services, and as the game currently stands Perfect World or Cryptic isn’t building a game but a product solely; and as a service Prefect World and Cryptic aren’t living up to their end.
A player cannot test the facets of a class, learn anything by trial or error, or even explore the content without a price tag following the individual every step of the way; and when a re-specialization costs six dollars (the price of a full chicken I might add) or a feature costs up to forty or sixty dollars (the cost of a single player experience or newly launched multi-media online role playing game) the artists, developers, or cooperation’s intentions isn’t to provide you with an experience, but to sell you a lie (snake oil) and call it a high” luxury need.”
The attempt isn’t to provide you with a service, but to nickel and dime the individual, and unfortunately individuals with a large amount of income allow this practice to go on, as they don’t understand the value of money in an economy or simply do not care. Gain a little perspective, stop giving into your impatient wants, and learn to boycott when you don’t agree with a business.
If this company does not deserve your money do not give it to them.
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brolleunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Okay, I guess these forums have issues too (double post)
I'm sure you're aware that what you posted is merely a matter of perspective. If you don't like the way it's being ran no one is twisting your arm and making you play and pay for things you don't want or enjoy.
There are plenty of games out there, if you don't like the cash shop system in this game then don't use it, and if you think you have to use it to play and refuse to play this game, then you probably won't be missed.
To be honest if people use the money that's for rent or food to pay for in game items, that's more of a personal problem and they should seek professional help on how to manage their money and the will power to do so.
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pickygamerMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The respec thing is is just a dead horse. If you google free to play games with free respec all the searches seem to be aimed at forums of people doing the exact same complaint. So logically it seems that paid respecs are common, they are obviously viable since they are widely used and alot of these games have been around for years.
One thing that ive seen in games with this set up is, that if there is unforeseen changes that will potentially change how a class is played then a free one time respec is given (nerfs/skill revamps/balancing). I don't think PWE wants to shoot themselves in the foot with this IP so if the time comes where a class is drastically changed from its current form then I would hope they would follow that path as well.
*sighs* some people don't bother reading and then post
some of us have no problems putting some money down on a game and in fact I already bought 2 more char slots but I'm debating if I will put more money into the game if Zen keeps rearing its ugly head into things like respecs which are normally part of an MMO and not extra (and don't bother bringing up that older games didn't have it thats a stupid cop out since lots of things didn't use to exist like voice acting but hey neverwinter has that now too)
Totally agree. There need to be boundaries on what is needed to be purchased with real money. I'm so turned off by the greed right now. I spent $50-100 a month on LOTRO, I'm no cheapskate but I expect value for my money.
I've invested $250 in this game already and I have 8 bank slots? wow. I need to spend money to repec. wow. I have a companion that is useless past level 40.
Really have a bad taste in my mouth already. I'm somewhat mentally gone from this game already... I at least wanna get to max level and see how things are, queue times, etc... otherwise prolly giving my account to my nephews. Didn't have much luck trying to sell this on craigslist. ESO isn't far away though, so if the Xen nickel and diming doesn't improve we at least have something to look forward too.
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hyphenjayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
the option to respec is a luxury... it saves you time to reroll a character from scratch
makes sense that it's a paid option
how much it costs though, it's a different arguement
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obsituusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
Totally agree. There need to be boundaries on what is needed to be purchased with real money. I'm so turned off by the greed right now. I spent $50-100 a month on LOTRO, I'm no cheapskate but I expect value for my money.
I've invested $250 in this game already and I have 8 bank slots? wow. I need to spend money to repec. wow. I have a companion that is useless past level 40.
Really have a bad taste in my mouth already. I'm somewhat mentally gone from this game already... I at least wanna get to max level and see how things are, queue times, etc... otherwise prolly giving my account to my nephews. Didn't have much luck trying to sell this on craigslist. ESO isn't far away though, so if the Xen nickel and diming doesn't improve we at least have something to look forward too.
How in the world did you spend that much per month on LotRO? I don't see how that is physically possible unless you were intentionally re-buying things like expansion packs and missions packs. 99% of the items they sell are purely cosmetic, the rest are pure convenience, and all of them are optional.
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wesgarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Okay, you said neverwinter is not p2w right? then why i should pay for respect my character build? what i should do if i fail on my build? leveling another char? what i do if i dont have money? play a broken character? stop be greedy or all people leave of your game pls
Back in the olden days... you'd have to re-roll a character if you 'failed on my build.' Now day's some games offer 'respecs' this is one of them - yay! it's also an area that the company that in vested so much into the game, might make a few bucks back on that game.
I am a bit curious... how is it that you think that they should 'make their money back' that they put into making this game, and the money that they are spending to keep the servers up and make new content / fix bugs?
I'm guessing that your not understanding the model, but bottom line, the reason that big games (other than indy game's made for the love of the game, or as student projects,) are made, are to make money.
So - 'free to play' basically means that the company that paid for the game to be made, wants to 'lower the barrier to entry'.
They want as many people to check out their game as possible - the theory is that the game market is crowded, and they are betting that more people will look at the game they have to offer, if they don't charge up front to let people come and see it, than they would get if they just 'sold a box' or down load.
They are also betting that eventually they will make more money by selling 'micro transactions' in game than they would with a 50 to 60 dollar box, or a 10 to 15 dollar subscription fee.
if your not seeing the trend here, it is STILL about how to make the most money off of the game.
you make one valid point at the end of your post - if they end up trying to get 'too much' from their customers before the customer is truly invested, then the customer is going to leave. However... a respec?
If your considering a Respec, you sound 'invested' in the game and your character - that sounds like a PERFECT place to hit a dedicated customer up for a bit of cash.
So, it all becomes this intricate dance, to provide as much of a fun experience that they can, with the full intent at some point to gain money from the people that are coming to check out the game.
This game is some what unique in that they are making an effort to allow for anything that is offered on the 'cash shop' to be purchased by earning 'in game' currency (using your time,) and trading it for the 'cash shop' currency.
That there is some pretty cool stuff, and shows a definite step in a new direction for this kind of income model. (most games have some super cool 'premium' items - like respecs for instance, that can ONLY be bought with real money... this game provides a way for you to earn those items by 'playing' and spending time.
Anyway, I'm writing a lot, and it's not really to the 'OP' but perhaps more to folks that might actually be curious about this sort of thing like I am.
This new method of generating income amazes me.
Mostly, because I have found that if I really like a 'free to play' game, in almost every case, I have spent FAR more on it, that I would have had it been a 50 to 60 dollar one time purchase, with possible sequels or expansions - or subscription type games.
so, on one had, I hate that it costs me more to enjoy a product like that - but on the other, I have played a bunch of 'free to play' games that I didn't like - and guess what - I'm not out one penny!
I didn't spend a dime, because it was free!
nice! I'm only paying for the stuff that I enjoy!
that's super awesome!
anyway - I'm quite enjoying Neverwinter - and if you do, I hope that you are willing to kick in a few bucks on something that's important to you, so that they can keep on adding to the game and making it even better.
that's my 2 cents. (that was a lot better than me just telling a troll to scram wasn't it?)
I wonder if the servers are up.... :-P
zWolf.
Thanks,
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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kwaziMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
PWE's business models are ridiculous. They charge gems for almost every little thing and of course charge for respecs. I would much rather pay 60 dollars up front for the ability to have BASIC CHARACTER NEEDS provided to me with an in game currency (that is not gainable with real money)
If this game had GW2's business model (money up front, PVE respecs cost in game money, cash shop has limited items that affect gameplay) it would be cool. GW2 also has a money = ingame currency system but that isn't nearly as abuseable since neverwinter can be pay 2 win.
Many posts that say "IT'S FREE TO PLAY, THEY CAN BE AS RESTRICTING AS POSSIBLE" is like reverse entitlement or something. Overlooking serious flaws in favor of just blindly accusing people of being entitled and other ridiculously silly notions.
The worst part is they don't even meet you halfway, little compromises such as giving a free total respec at max level and not charging diamonds for every little thing a player might really need (such as scrolls, the fact such a basic need is there for purchase with 'precious' diamonds is really jarring) is the main problem with PWE. They can earn plenty of money by selling mounts, cosmetic items for characters, cosmetic transformation potions, not-so-expensive inventory/bank slots, etc but nope, they know that the majority of those who will pay are the typical people who say things like "IT'S FREE TO PLAY SHUT UP".
Unfortunately, the posts before mine seems to be the majority opinion so things will never really change. I like neverwinter but I have enough self control to not give in to ridiculous demands for my cash. I have bought many games, spent some money in other f2p games that I don't regret since I really did want it instead of it being shoved down my throat or generally "forced" upon me for the sake of character efficiency.
WoW, with their increasing price of respecs still made me think deeply about my choices since gold even though it is an ingame currency was still quite valuable but PWE did a good job in heavily separating ingane currency to actual cash earning currency as to lessen the importance of gold vs diamonds. Of course in GW2 you could convert your ingame currency into diamonds so that was nice too.
In the end, I don't regret spending 60 dollars on GW2, a game I don't play anymore since I felt the game was pretty worth it and the fact that I can go back to it whenever I want really puts me at ease. For WoW the experiences that game gave me was worth it in the end. The only purchases I really regret usually come from the few F2P game cash shops, because of what they could have done to make the game better vs putting it in a cash shop.
The smaller things such as paying for scrolls, gear on the AH for character power/almost everything else in the game, with diamonds (that can be purchased with cash) matter more to me than paying 6 dollars for a respec, it's the little things that people don't notice and these companies get away with doing.
And of course PWE has no business conforming to the vocal minority since they won't be paying for the game anyway! Why cater to their needs when they won't pay and the system is working!
I also find that people pay a ton for broken/buggy virtual goods when that **** wouldn't fly in an actual product. It feels like people who purchase/deal with virtual goods (such as videogames) mostly get no respect from the publishers, probably because they just gobble up whatever they spit out.
They sure do know their market.
I believe that f2p games should first provide basic in game needs (for mmos specifically this includes respecs at a fair cost to the player) and have a good base game in place, then a cash shop business model selling mostly cosmetic items (exp boosts would be fine too I think) that are well made and fairly priced. Also having an option to have player submitted designs/items would be nice too, much like TF2.
It's nice writing about something even though it'll never happen. It's nice to have a dream.
The F2P model got lost years ago originally it wasn't pay to win and even if it was it wasn't ludicrously overpriced as we are seeing currently. Cash shop items should be shortcuts (exp potions, crafting supplies, instant crafting, etc..) or cosmetics now they are taking core game mechanics and making it so if you don't give them money you suffer. You want inventory space? pay us money, you want to try out skills/builds and not be stuck? pay us money You want to enchant with those shiny runes? pay us money. You want to swap the runes out? Pay us money. Want to fuse them without a miniscule chance of success? Pay us money. Want a companion that scales higher? Pay us money
The model wasn't meant to be the have's and the have not's.
I love the "Trade astral diamonds for Zen" argument because last I checked the market was entirely dependent on the player base as there was no standard rate for converting meaning the only way you can trade for Zen is if players are selling zen. So in essence everything bought with Zen is 100% real money if your trading for zen that means some player sold it. And I believe with the current cost of respec I hope you have a hundred thousand Astral diamonds to shell out just for enough Zen to respec once.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Amen to that my gaming brother! I here you there for sure! Alas, I fear that the tides are moving in the direction of 'free to play', it seems that businesses are finding that they can make more money off of us than the $60 for the 'full experiance' that we used to play.
A new world for sure, I'll keep on dreaming of the, not so distant 'olden days' back when you could get your game for 60$, pay a modest monthly fee, and buy a 40$ expansion every year or so... but like I said, I fear those days are past us - other than perhaps 'Blizzard' that directions seems like 'the way things used to work' instead of an attractive business Model.
...They can earn plenty of money by selling mounts, cosmetic items for characters, cosmetic transformation potions, not-so-expensive inventory/bank slots, etc ...
Like I said, this 'new format' interests me, and THAT is my dream - a purely cosmetic shop that pays for a great game like this... but, alas, the 'closest' game that comes to that that I can think of is League of Legends, and even there you'll find quite a few players that cry 'foul' when a new character is released for cash purchase... the perceptions is that the 'for cash' character is a bit 'op' compared to their free to play brethren.
Bottom line though, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE for there to be more examples of purely cosmetic 'for purchase' items supporting a game - I think that the 'sliding rule' is more the norm, where the company has to balance not pissing off to many of their customers, by going 'too pay to win' or charging too much for essentials, and at the same time, trying to cash in on their investment as much as possible.
...I like neverwinter but I have enough self control to not give in to ridiculous demands for my cash.
I'm very curious for those that haven't payed anything at all, how are you finding the game? is it playable? I don't doubt that there are items that you could buy that would make it more 'convenient' to play etc... but in reality, I'm really curious to know if there is a 'decent game' in there that is fun and you enjoy, and don't even have to pay anything for.
if that's the case, the WOAH, Cryptic really has something here! Make something enjoyable for folks to play for free, the free players will 'advertise' for them, getting MORE players (some of which will pay,) and some free players, may graduate from school, get nice jobs and even start kicking in themselves.
So, ya, I'd like to know... are there people out there not paying, that are still enjoying the game? or is it utterly un-playable with out spending money?
thanks.
Thanks,
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
PWE's business models are ridiculous. They charge gems for almost every little thing and of course charge for respecs. I would much rather pay 60 dollars up front for the ability to have BASIC CHARACTER NEEDS provided to me with an in game currency (that is not gainable with real money)
If this game had GW2's business model (money up front, PVE respecs cost in game money, cash shop has limited items that affect gameplay) it would be cool. GW2 also has a money = ingame currency system but that isn't nearly as abuseable since neverwinter can be pay 2 win.
Many posts that say "IT'S FREE TO PLAY, THEY CAN BE AS RESTRICTING AS POSSIBLE" is like reverse entitlement or something. Overlooking serious flaws in favor of just blindly accusing people of being entitled and other ridiculously silly notions.
The worst part is they don't even meet you halfway, little compromises such as giving a free total respec at max level and not charging diamonds for every little thing a player might really need (such as scrolls, the fact such a basic need is there for purchase with 'precious' diamonds is really jarring) is the main problem with PWE. They can earn plenty of money by selling mounts, cosmetic items for characters, cosmetic transformation potions, not-so-expensive inventory/bank slots, etc but nope, they know that the majority of those who will pay are the typical people who say things like "IT'S FREE TO PLAY SHUT UP".
Unfortunately, the posts before mine seems to be the majority opinion so things will never really change. I like neverwinter but I have enough self control to not give in to ridiculous demands for my cash. I have bought many games, spent some money in other f2p games that I don't regret since I really did want it instead of it being shoved down my throat or generally "forced" upon me for the sake of character efficiency.
WoW, with their increasing price of respecs still made me think deeply about my choices since gold even though it is an ingame currency was still quite valuable but PWE did a good job in heavily separating ingane currency to actual cash earning currency as to lessen the importance of gold vs diamonds. Of course in GW2 you could convert your ingame currency into diamonds so that was nice too.
In the end, I don't regret spending 60 dollars on GW2, a game I don't play anymore since I felt the game was pretty worth it and the fact that I can go back to it whenever I want really puts me at ease. For WoW the experiences that game gave me was worth it in the end. The only purchases I really regret usually come from the few F2P game cash shops, because of what they could have done to make the game better vs putting it in a cash shop.
The smaller things such as paying for scrolls, gear on the AH for character power/almost everything else in the game, with diamonds (that can be purchased with cash) matter more to me than paying 6 dollars for a respec, it's the little things that people don't notice and these companies get away with doing.
And of course PWE has no business conforming to the vocal minority since they won't be paying for the game anyway! Why cater to their needs when they won't pay and the system is working!
I also find that people pay a ton for broken/buggy virtual goods when that **** wouldn't fly in an actual product. It feels like people who purchase/deal with virtual goods (such as videogames) mostly get no respect from the publishers, probably because they just gobble up whatever they spit out.
They sure do know their market.
I believe that f2p games should first provide basic in game needs (for mmos specifically this includes respecs at a fair cost to the player) and have a good base game in place, then a cash shop business model selling mostly cosmetic items (exp boosts would be fine too I think) that are well made and fairly priced. Also having an option to have player submitted designs/items would be nice too, much like TF2.
It's nice writing about something even though it'll never happen. It's nice to have a dream.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
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wesgarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
mon-ey grab
n. inf. an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with very little effort.
So... are you saying that no matter 'how' CRYPTIC / PWE trys to get money that they can NOT be accused of a 'Cash Grab'.
cause, It certainly doesn't take much play time to see that quite a bit of effort has been put into the game... does that mean that they are now 'immune' from claims of 'cash grabby-ness??'
Thanks,
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So... are you saying that no matter 'how' CRYPTIC / PWE trys to get money that they can NOT be accused of a 'Cash Grab'.
cause, It certainly doesn't take much play time to see that quite a bit of effort has been put into the game... does that mean that they are now 'immune' from claims of 'cash grabby-ness??'
No, actually I meant the opposite of that. and only a cursory glance at the cash shop makes my point. Which is where the cash grab comes into play. Tons of effort went into the game. Not so much, the zen shop.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Comments
Someone earlier in this very thread posted that they would prefer to respec for the week to their farm build and then on the weekend respec to their PvP build and back. I personally see nothing wrong with charging that person $10 a week to do that if they want that convenience. But that same person is complaining that the price is to high and they MUST respec.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1zen=500 AD
dunno about you but... i think respec was like 600 zen? cant say for sure i'd have to check... my point is... would take someone a long time to grind enough Ad to buy a respec... i already calculated, a bag costing 1.5 million AD... so yea isnt as viable as people make it out to be.
DOUBLE PLAGIARISM! You have already stolen this quote in this thread that already had this quote earlier! GASP! TRIPLE PLAGIARISM!
I agree with that quote that doesn't belong to you .... But if I see you post it again I'm reporting you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
complain after they release the pathways if they don't give a free token then.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
He posted twice in this thread (Making 3 total in this thread), and twice in two other threads. He loves repeating himself when repeating other people.
some of us have no problems putting some money down on a game and in fact I already bought 2 more char slots but I'm debating if I will put more money into the game if Zen keeps rearing its ugly head into things like respecs which are normally part of an MMO and not extra (and don't bother bringing up that older games didn't have it thats a stupid cop out since lots of things didn't use to exist like voice acting but hey neverwinter has that now too)
I'm sure some of the people who made the game like the idea of giving people something great to play for free, but the F2P system is just another business model.
If you don't like the respec charge, then either re-roll, go play another game, or...omg, use your astral diamonds to buy zen and pay for it.
Either way it can be done through in game means and was "built" into the game.
I suggest never giving Perfect World or Cryptic any of your income until they find an ethical business model that sells the player convinces and aesthetics (not power) and a model that doesn’t exploit these services, and as the game currently stands Perfect World or Cryptic isn’t building a game but a product solely; and as a service Prefect World and Cryptic aren’t living up to their end.
A player cannot test the facets of a class, learn anything by trial or error, or even explore the content without a price tag following the individual every step of the way; and when a re-specialization costs six dollars (the price of a full chicken I might add) or a feature costs up to forty or sixty dollars (the cost of a single player experience or newly launched multi-media online role playing game) the artists, developers, or cooperation’s intentions isn’t to provide you with an experience, but to sell you a lie (snake oil) and call it a high” luxury need.”
The attempt isn’t to provide you with a service, but to nickel and dime the individual, and unfortunately individuals with a large amount of income allow this practice to go on, as they don’t understand the value of money in an economy or simply do not care. Gain a little perspective, stop giving into your impatient wants, and learn to boycott when you don’t agree with a business.
If this company does not deserve your money do not give it to them.
There are plenty of games out there, if you don't like the cash shop system in this game then don't use it, and if you think you have to use it to play and refuse to play this game, then you probably won't be missed.
To be honest if people use the money that's for rent or food to pay for in game items, that's more of a personal problem and they should seek professional help on how to manage their money and the will power to do so.
One thing that ive seen in games with this set up is, that if there is unforeseen changes that will potentially change how a class is played then a free one time respec is given (nerfs/skill revamps/balancing). I don't think PWE wants to shoot themselves in the foot with this IP so if the time comes where a class is drastically changed from its current form then I would hope they would follow that path as well.
Sure. Tear up your character and start a new one. Or I suppose if you got a full hi power wish, or maybe a reincarnation.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So reroll? So..reroll in the game to maintain authenticity :P
Or if you have a *very* lenient DM.
Totally agree. There need to be boundaries on what is needed to be purchased with real money. I'm so turned off by the greed right now. I spent $50-100 a month on LOTRO, I'm no cheapskate but I expect value for my money.
I've invested $250 in this game already and I have 8 bank slots? wow. I need to spend money to repec. wow. I have a companion that is useless past level 40.
Really have a bad taste in my mouth already. I'm somewhat mentally gone from this game already... I at least wanna get to max level and see how things are, queue times, etc... otherwise prolly giving my account to my nephews. Didn't have much luck trying to sell this on craigslist. ESO isn't far away though, so if the Xen nickel and diming doesn't improve we at least have something to look forward too.
makes sense that it's a paid option
how much it costs though, it's a different arguement
How in the world did you spend that much per month on LotRO? I don't see how that is physically possible unless you were intentionally re-buying things like expansion packs and missions packs. 99% of the items they sell are purely cosmetic, the rest are pure convenience, and all of them are optional.
Back in the olden days... you'd have to re-roll a character if you 'failed on my build.' Now day's some games offer 'respecs' this is one of them - yay! it's also an area that the company that in vested so much into the game, might make a few bucks back on that game.
I am a bit curious... how is it that you think that they should 'make their money back' that they put into making this game, and the money that they are spending to keep the servers up and make new content / fix bugs?
I'm guessing that your not understanding the model, but bottom line, the reason that big games (other than indy game's made for the love of the game, or as student projects,) are made, are to make money.
So - 'free to play' basically means that the company that paid for the game to be made, wants to 'lower the barrier to entry'.
They want as many people to check out their game as possible - the theory is that the game market is crowded, and they are betting that more people will look at the game they have to offer, if they don't charge up front to let people come and see it, than they would get if they just 'sold a box' or down load.
They are also betting that eventually they will make more money by selling 'micro transactions' in game than they would with a 50 to 60 dollar box, or a 10 to 15 dollar subscription fee.
if your not seeing the trend here, it is STILL about how to make the most money off of the game.
you make one valid point at the end of your post - if they end up trying to get 'too much' from their customers before the customer is truly invested, then the customer is going to leave. However... a respec?
If your considering a Respec, you sound 'invested' in the game and your character - that sounds like a PERFECT place to hit a dedicated customer up for a bit of cash.
So, it all becomes this intricate dance, to provide as much of a fun experience that they can, with the full intent at some point to gain money from the people that are coming to check out the game.
This game is some what unique in that they are making an effort to allow for anything that is offered on the 'cash shop' to be purchased by earning 'in game' currency (using your time,) and trading it for the 'cash shop' currency.
That there is some pretty cool stuff, and shows a definite step in a new direction for this kind of income model. (most games have some super cool 'premium' items - like respecs for instance, that can ONLY be bought with real money... this game provides a way for you to earn those items by 'playing' and spending time.
Anyway, I'm writing a lot, and it's not really to the 'OP' but perhaps more to folks that might actually be curious about this sort of thing like I am.
This new method of generating income amazes me.
Mostly, because I have found that if I really like a 'free to play' game, in almost every case, I have spent FAR more on it, that I would have had it been a 50 to 60 dollar one time purchase, with possible sequels or expansions - or subscription type games.
so, on one had, I hate that it costs me more to enjoy a product like that - but on the other, I have played a bunch of 'free to play' games that I didn't like - and guess what - I'm not out one penny!
I didn't spend a dime, because it was free!
nice! I'm only paying for the stuff that I enjoy!
that's super awesome!
anyway - I'm quite enjoying Neverwinter - and if you do, I hope that you are willing to kick in a few bucks on something that's important to you, so that they can keep on adding to the game and making it even better.
that's my 2 cents. (that was a lot better than me just telling a troll to scram wasn't it?)
I wonder if the servers are up.... :-P
zWolf.
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If this game had GW2's business model (money up front, PVE respecs cost in game money, cash shop has limited items that affect gameplay) it would be cool. GW2 also has a money = ingame currency system but that isn't nearly as abuseable since neverwinter can be pay 2 win.
Many posts that say "IT'S FREE TO PLAY, THEY CAN BE AS RESTRICTING AS POSSIBLE" is like reverse entitlement or something. Overlooking serious flaws in favor of just blindly accusing people of being entitled and other ridiculously silly notions.
The worst part is they don't even meet you halfway, little compromises such as giving a free total respec at max level and not charging diamonds for every little thing a player might really need (such as scrolls, the fact such a basic need is there for purchase with 'precious' diamonds is really jarring) is the main problem with PWE. They can earn plenty of money by selling mounts, cosmetic items for characters, cosmetic transformation potions, not-so-expensive inventory/bank slots, etc but nope, they know that the majority of those who will pay are the typical people who say things like "IT'S FREE TO PLAY SHUT UP".
Unfortunately, the posts before mine seems to be the majority opinion so things will never really change. I like neverwinter but I have enough self control to not give in to ridiculous demands for my cash. I have bought many games, spent some money in other f2p games that I don't regret since I really did want it instead of it being shoved down my throat or generally "forced" upon me for the sake of character efficiency.
WoW, with their increasing price of respecs still made me think deeply about my choices since gold even though it is an ingame currency was still quite valuable but PWE did a good job in heavily separating ingane currency to actual cash earning currency as to lessen the importance of gold vs diamonds. Of course in GW2 you could convert your ingame currency into diamonds so that was nice too.
In the end, I don't regret spending 60 dollars on GW2, a game I don't play anymore since I felt the game was pretty worth it and the fact that I can go back to it whenever I want really puts me at ease. For WoW the experiences that game gave me was worth it in the end. The only purchases I really regret usually come from the few F2P game cash shops, because of what they could have done to make the game better vs putting it in a cash shop.
The smaller things such as paying for scrolls, gear on the AH for character power/almost everything else in the game, with diamonds (that can be purchased with cash) matter more to me than paying 6 dollars for a respec, it's the little things that people don't notice and these companies get away with doing.
And of course PWE has no business conforming to the vocal minority since they won't be paying for the game anyway! Why cater to their needs when they won't pay and the system is working!
I also find that people pay a ton for broken/buggy virtual goods when that **** wouldn't fly in an actual product. It feels like people who purchase/deal with virtual goods (such as videogames) mostly get no respect from the publishers, probably because they just gobble up whatever they spit out.
They sure do know their market.
I believe that f2p games should first provide basic in game needs (for mmos specifically this includes respecs at a fair cost to the player) and have a good base game in place, then a cash shop business model selling mostly cosmetic items (exp boosts would be fine too I think) that are well made and fairly priced. Also having an option to have player submitted designs/items would be nice too, much like TF2.
It's nice writing about something even though it'll never happen. It's nice to have a dream.
The model wasn't meant to be the have's and the have not's.
I love the "Trade astral diamonds for Zen" argument because last I checked the market was entirely dependent on the player base as there was no standard rate for converting meaning the only way you can trade for Zen is if players are selling zen. So in essence everything bought with Zen is 100% real money if your trading for zen that means some player sold it. And I believe with the current cost of respec I hope you have a hundred thousand Astral diamonds to shell out just for enough Zen to respec once.
Good lord, do you even listen to yourself? Do you know what a cash grab is?
You're a CONSUMER. You don't thank companies for higher prices, and ask for more, like you're pledging an f'ing fraternity!
Making money doesn't mean cash grabs.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=money%20grab
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O999-moneygrab.html
mon-ey grab
n. inf. an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with very little effort.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Amen to that my gaming brother! I here you there for sure! Alas, I fear that the tides are moving in the direction of 'free to play', it seems that businesses are finding that they can make more money off of us than the $60 for the 'full experiance' that we used to play.
A new world for sure, I'll keep on dreaming of the, not so distant 'olden days' back when you could get your game for 60$, pay a modest monthly fee, and buy a 40$ expansion every year or so... but like I said, I fear those days are past us - other than perhaps 'Blizzard' that directions seems like 'the way things used to work' instead of an attractive business Model.
Like I said, this 'new format' interests me, and THAT is my dream - a purely cosmetic shop that pays for a great game like this... but, alas, the 'closest' game that comes to that that I can think of is League of Legends, and even there you'll find quite a few players that cry 'foul' when a new character is released for cash purchase... the perceptions is that the 'for cash' character is a bit 'op' compared to their free to play brethren.
Bottom line though, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE for there to be more examples of purely cosmetic 'for purchase' items supporting a game - I think that the 'sliding rule' is more the norm, where the company has to balance not pissing off to many of their customers, by going 'too pay to win' or charging too much for essentials, and at the same time, trying to cash in on their investment as much as possible.
I'm very curious for those that haven't payed anything at all, how are you finding the game? is it playable? I don't doubt that there are items that you could buy that would make it more 'convenient' to play etc... but in reality, I'm really curious to know if there is a 'decent game' in there that is fun and you enjoy, and don't even have to pay anything for.
if that's the case, the WOAH, Cryptic really has something here! Make something enjoyable for folks to play for free, the free players will 'advertise' for them, getting MORE players (some of which will pay,) and some free players, may graduate from school, get nice jobs and even start kicking in themselves.
So, ya, I'd like to know... are there people out there not paying, that are still enjoying the game? or is it utterly un-playable with out spending money?
thanks.
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
So... are you saying that no matter 'how' CRYPTIC / PWE trys to get money that they can NOT be accused of a 'Cash Grab'.
cause, It certainly doesn't take much play time to see that quite a bit of effort has been put into the game... does that mean that they are now 'immune' from claims of 'cash grabby-ness??'
zWolf / Wesgar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No, actually I meant the opposite of that. and only a cursory glance at the cash shop makes my point. Which is where the cash grab comes into play. Tons of effort went into the game. Not so much, the zen shop.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC