That is just your opinion. This is a NEW game it's purpose wasn't to re-create DnD but be similar to both neverwinter and DnD. Not make an exact replica.
Honestly I've gotten quite used to not reconfiguring and coordinating spell lists for hours. While Pathfinder was a bit of an improvement over 3.5 I still couldn't see why my monsters shouldn't just ignore everyone else and turn the healer into pasty goo. /shrug I just like D&D and whichever system I play, I play.
Yup. Typically when playing any type of RPG game that involves fighting groups of foes, the first thing I have my group target is the healer.
I had done a beta post about how this issue would come up. My thing is for the story, you have no choices (like SW:TOR would change your appearance and the story would alter to fit your evil/good choices) so you sort of lose the incentive to even read the quest dialog, you just blaze on past it because there is no right/wrong choice which could affect how the story goes, you are just on the rails and following them. This is where I take issue, it is a pre-determined path that you are on and there is no getting off, no side quests (which seems so odd, where are the random quest givers in the main city?), nothing to sort of distract you from the main storyline.
The ACTUAL D&D online proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the conversion can be done very well.
As to why everyone expects the online to have something in common with the pen and paper? Well, maybe its because they promise that it will by choosing to make a game using the freaking title! How misleading would it be to create a game called "Car Wars" and then load it up only to find it was about Cowboys and Indians? Same here except that in this case it is a rules set issue. D&D is NOT a setting...nor has it EVER been. It is a ruleset...and by choosing to use that huge D&D logo, you are making a promise to the buyer...one which has not been lived up to.
Now if they had dropped the D&D and just stuck with Forgotten Realms, then those folks complaining would be wrong and the various points about the setting being the only important thing would be right.
This is perhaps the most well written and truthful post on all the forum threads.
WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO and you all cheer and give them money. Whoever tells us this is D&D along with the devs should be ashamed.
0
bpphantomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The game is good. The combat system great. The foundry one of the best features ever. But where is the D&D.
Locked weapons and armor. I'm a dwarf great weapon fighter you wont let me wear full plate and no ax I'm a dwarf you never see a dwarf with a great-sword. D&D was always about choice but where is it here you should be able to wield a dagger as a great weapon fighter wear plate as a mage (yes it would be silly and never work) where is my studded leather, scale mail, splint mail.
Where is the environment of D&D i can run down hallways unafraid. I hope this is because I'm lower level but I haven't seen a single trap yet and all our class skills (Dungeoneering, Arcana, Religion, ect.) are just for getting crafting materials. Nothing is threatening as I can drip feed myself potions, at most in D&D you had 2 (mainly casue they were not that useful) not 15 and that's just from looting.
This game make me want to play a good D&D mmo sadly that is more of what D&D online offers than Neverwinter. It's not that Neverwinter is bad, it's a great game with wonderful combat and user created content just not a D&D game.
I hope this will be taken as a criticism that can be fixed and not as someone just whining. Hopefully this game will get better with time and it can become the game i wanted.
If I want D&D I'll go play Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and of course Neverwinter Nights 1&2. Neverwinter is an MMO as such I expected no D&D rule sets. And don't even start with the it's pretty similar to 4e if it is 4e is s***.
What I want to know is when do we get our bows/archer class? Do you see my signature? Come on Cryptic I need my bows. Oh, if only I could start threads...my rant would have been...glorious!
Alright 2 points. Firstly people saying you can't convert Dnd rules to a video game because it's to hard, WHAT? Their have been dozens of dnd video games over the years most of them translated the rules pretty well and all of them used harder rulesets to convert. 4ed lends itself to a video game more so then the other versions so it's just ridiculous and silly to say that it would be to hard to make a dnd game using the ruleset. I would go so far as to say I bet the devs on this game didn't even pick up a 4ed players handbook.
Secondly people saying there's more to dnd then just the combat system, YES you're right their is. And this game ignores all those aspects also. Dnd is about exploration and storytelling and choices and this game does that horribly as well. It's not just the combat system were upset about. The storytelling in this is awful. Npcs just hand out generic kill and fetch quests while spouting out generic quest text with some alright VO. The actual npcs though dont move or show any kind of emotion while talking and most of the time there mouths aren't even moving. We also have no meaningful choices we can make in the dialog other then just accepting the quest as it is.
In dnd I can take on quests and encounters multiple different ways. Hell sometimes you can bypass fighting entirely and just talk your way out of it. In this it's just mindless kill everything. The only translation of the noncombat skills from dnd is to give everyone one of them and all they are is basically for looting items and the occasional secret door that again only leads to items. In dnd I can pretty much explore however I want (as long as the DM lets you), in this your stuck to these very small enclosed areas that even the outside zones feel small and enclosed. And your stuck to following this very linear golden sparkle path that just shows you exactly where to go. I almost laughed when during one of the quests they have this maze that actually looks like it would be very cool to get through except there's this gold path. It's hilarious. It's like the level designers had no idea this path was in the game.
Anyway that rant got pretty long I'll leave it at that.
If I want D&D I'll go play Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and of course Neverwinter Nights 1&2. Neverwinter is an MMO as such I expected no D&D rule sets. And don't even start with the it's pretty similar to 4e if it is 4e is s***.
What I want to know is when do we get our bows/archer class? Do you see my signature? Come on Cryptic I need my bows. Oh, if only I could start threads...my rant would have been...glorious!
Real D&D games have bows. For some crazy reason unbeknownst to me, "MMO" seems to have to have a special class just to shoot a bow. Any Fighter worth beans should be a decent archer. Any Fighter who specializes in bows should be able to call himself an Archer. These "MMO" limits people keep harping on seem made up. I read about MMO's and there's no such limits by definition (at least that I could find).
I don't understand why people vigorously defend a system where a fighter cannot switch from a greatsword to a longsword & shield or to a bow. This makes no sense.
Yes, I play an Elven Fighter/Wizard who throws lightning bolts while wearing plate mail & swinging a sword. Any good D&D game, MMO or not, should have these options.
Real D&D games have bows. For some crazy reason unbeknownst to me, "MMO" seems to have to have a special class just to shoot a bow. Any Fighter worth beans should be a decent archer. Any Fighter who specializes in bows should be able to call himself an Archer. These "MMO" limits people keep harping on seem made up. I read about MMO's and there's no such limits by definition (at least that I could find).
I don't understand why people vigorously defend a system where a fighter cannot switch from a greatsword to a longsword & shield or to a bow. This makes no sense.
Yes, I play an Elven Fighter/Wizard who throws lightning bolts while wearing plate mail & swinging a sword. Any good D&D game, MMO or not, should have these options.
Well see that's the problem, Neverwinter is an MMORPG with a Forgotten Realms setting. People assumed it would have some similarities with the D&D rule sets implemented in some of the best CRPGs ever made.
There's nothing wrong with Neverwinter being an MMORPG and not having a D&D rule set, I like the game and the combat is really good. As to the reason why each class can only use 1 type of weapon and 1 type of armor it's to help "cement" the role of the class in an MMORPG. If a tank can dish out just as much damage as a DPS melee fighter and have higher survivability then there's no reason to have the DPS melee fighter. Basically it all comes down to class purpose and partying, and since it's an MMORPG there has to be a more/less severe restriction on the type of gear each class can use.
Also I'm gonna go to sleep dreaming of bows, that's just messed up.
There's just virtually ZERO customization of anything - that's the problem. DnD is about choices. Neverwinter is about necroing our beloved IP yet again.
Seriously, when will WOTC learn.... I don't get why they put their blessings on these games that just further alienate faithful DnD players.
There's only been three "good" multiplayer DnD games on the PC: NWN (Bioware), NWN 2 (Obsidian), and DDO (Turbine). Personally I think only the original NWN from Bioware is truly worthy of mention, but the others at least were an honest attempt at translation from PnP to PC.
Hard to believe in this day and age of social networking WOTC won't make a solid multiplayer DnD game with a Dungeon Master and players on voice and cam. I mean it's easy enough to do with hosts of 3rd party software like skype, openrpg, etc, plenty of ways to make it extremely profitable, but all we seem to get is a load of garbage getting released with "DnD" pinned on it.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
There's just virtually ZERO customization of anything - that's the problem. DnD is about choices. Neverwinter is about necroing our beloved IP yet again.
Seriously, when will WOTC learn.... I don't get why they put their blessings on these games that just further alienate faithful DnD players.
There's only been three "good" multiplayer DnD games on the PC: NWN (Bioware), NWN 2 (Obsidian), and DDO (Turbine). Personally I think only the original NWN from Bioware is truly worthy of mention, but the others at least were an honest attempt at translation from PnP to PC.
Hard to believe in this day and age of social networking WOTC won't make a solid multiplayer DnD game with a Dungeon Master and players on voice and cam. I mean it's easy enough to do with hosts of 3rd party software like skype, openrpg, etc, plenty of ways to make it extremely profitable, but all we seem to get is a load of garbage getting released with "DnD" pinned on it.
The closest thing you may get to that is the WoTC Virtual DM. You can make your character and make maps and play PnP online with your friends who have subs.
When it comes to MMO, the rule changes. There has to be some "balance" when yo go from one hero (you) to 1000 heroes (MMO)
DDO did follow 3.5 pretty well, but overtime they had to nerf wizards cause they are too powerful in MMO format (they are still powerful in PnP format)
4e changes a BUNCH of stuff. I am not too keen on PnP version of 4e, but in MMO format it is not too bad.
I have to agree that there should be more "stat" customization and character customization (like weapon type)
I'm an old school 2nd Ed AD&D player and to be honest I'm loving this game. No, it's not everything a tabletop game would be. Tabletop games are only limited to your imagination. This is a F2P video game. It's going to have limits, but nothing's stopping you from using your imagination.
Besides...the game just went into "open beta" so give them time to add things or fine tune.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I'm an old school 2nd Ed AD&D player and to be honest I'm loving this game. No, it's not everything a tabletop game would be. Tabletop games are only limited to your imagination. This is a F2P video game. It's going to have limits, but nothing's stopping you from using your imagination.
Besides...the game just went into "open beta" so give them time to add things or fine tune.
I agree. I love this game. I even invest the whole package (260$) Do I regret it? no. If I want a PnP experience, I'll game with my gaming group (which I do) this is video game version MMO. Each has their up and downs.
Except the combat is clunky and sub par. The gear sucks. There is no open world. This game is a joke and if this is the best they are putting out for MMOs thats a **** shame because it's clear the player base is there.
What is this "basic blue box" you guys speak of? I remembered playing AD&D basic- red box and blue "expert" box.
Oh, and imo NWN did an outstanding job of capturing pnp D&D, especially the community because of how powerful the modding tools were. D&D and NWN were much more than just being about "dice", but I haven't the time or energy to explain that here. NWN was much more methodical and slower-paced, and people today probably just don't have the patience for that kind of thing. Personally, I still prefer it, but I like a good, healthy dose of depth and complexity in my games.
I agree with the OP post title, this game is OK, but D&D it is not. To be brutally honest I feel they are trying to cash in on NWN success by using the same setting. While i think it looks pretty and has nice graphics, Stormreach held true to the D&D name. But if you like WoW or Dungeon Siege I can see the appeal of this one.
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xmastervellesxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
I've seen axes for the GWF at lvl 60. Just be patient and play a fun game.
wait until lv60 lolz, i got desapointed in lv20, i dont gonna bother to reach to 60 because a game with a big lack of customisation is just boring. perfect for casual players but not for hardcore like me
Gah, I cannot believe that I read through all 17 pages of this.
First, this game has a worse interface than Champions Online which is a much older game. The mix of mouse clicks and other randomized keystrokes is confusing. The fact that you cannot change them makes it worse, and the fact that they have nothing in common with any other game is not "attractive", it is idiotic. It is too close to similar games to be New and not far enough away to be unique.
Second, if you wanted to just license the Forgotten Realms, you could have done that. Licensing Neverwinter Nights is a deliberate attempt to draw in players of the earlier games. For those of you that say, "So What?", I was promised, in an interview, a worthy successor to that game. This is not it.
Third, the fingers up your nose, you WILL follow me style of game play is fine, but again, it is not D&D. Even the last two console D&D games gave you character development options.
It is your choice whether you play the game, but, personally, i think that stepping the game back to the baztardized version of the Basic/Second edition rules was lazy and a betrayal of the social contract between Cryptic and the people they want as customers. Settle for less if you like, but don't try to convince people that they did their best. Neverwinter Nights had everything the 3rd edition had to offer built in to it except for actual role playing, and that was given an environment to exist in.
I'm an old school 2nd Ed AD&D player and to be honest I'm loving this game. No, it's not everything a tabletop game would be. Tabletop games are only limited to your imagination. This is a F2P video game. It's going to have limits, but nothing's stopping you from using your imagination.
Besides...the game just went into "open beta" so give them time to add things or fine tune.
Hear hear! Old school here as well (2.2), yet i've got no issues with the game, apart from the random rubberbanding which makes me enter gigglemode rather than a nerd-rage, but it's a beta, you can't expect ANY game to be perfect, least not during the beta phases.
This game has a ton of potential and i'm sure they've got more goodies in store for us after the official launch, and then there's the foundry, my gods, what else could people want? That tool is awesome.
To all the naysayers, go make your own "PnP based MMORPG", publish it, and see how well it'll be recieved, that is, if you're even able to make one.
"For in this modern world, the instruments of warfare are not solely for waging war. Far more importantly, they are the means for controlling peace..."
I find it interesting how many people are insisting this isn't 4e D&D. This is almost exactly 4e...in a way. It's "Not 4.5" D&D, also called Essentials. The very specific classes we have? (Great Weapon Figher, Guardian fighter, etc.) That's exactly how Essentials functioned. It was supposed to help bring new players who had never done a PnP RPG into the game, by reducing the choices/options they have, so they can focus on just playing the game. It failed rather spectacularly as I recall, so I have no idea why they decided to use it as the basis of the video game, but everything here just screams Essentials.
They certainly could do better with plenty of aspects, and I'm hoping we start to see the variety grow as the game does. Just have to wait and see.
Comments
Yup. Typically when playing any type of RPG game that involves fighting groups of foes, the first thing I have my group target is the healer.
What Class Are You?
This is perhaps the most well written and truthful post on all the forum threads.
WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO and you all cheer and give them money. Whoever tells us this is D&D along with the devs should be ashamed.
Oh, so levels 1-30. 1M XP is the cap and everything is part of the RNG?
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
http://www.ddo.com/en
there we go mate! have fun.
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1287666826226.png&imgrefurl=http://www.reactionface.info/face/troll-face&h=1783&w=1954&sz=128&tbnid=-1rYJtlruuRB8M:&tbnh=80&tbnw=88&zoom=1&usg=__Nk5LZNXeW2yDVfxSQ8g2hVCGPyM=&docid=NvM_wKdx7ZhC2M&sa=X&ei=vdCCUYT5KqnC7Aab14HwBw&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAQ&dur=340
What I want to know is when do we get our bows/archer class? Do you see my signature? Come on Cryptic I need my bows. Oh, if only I could start threads...my rant would have been...glorious!
Secondly people saying there's more to dnd then just the combat system, YES you're right their is. And this game ignores all those aspects also. Dnd is about exploration and storytelling and choices and this game does that horribly as well. It's not just the combat system were upset about. The storytelling in this is awful. Npcs just hand out generic kill and fetch quests while spouting out generic quest text with some alright VO. The actual npcs though dont move or show any kind of emotion while talking and most of the time there mouths aren't even moving. We also have no meaningful choices we can make in the dialog other then just accepting the quest as it is.
In dnd I can take on quests and encounters multiple different ways. Hell sometimes you can bypass fighting entirely and just talk your way out of it. In this it's just mindless kill everything. The only translation of the noncombat skills from dnd is to give everyone one of them and all they are is basically for looting items and the occasional secret door that again only leads to items. In dnd I can pretty much explore however I want (as long as the DM lets you), in this your stuck to these very small enclosed areas that even the outside zones feel small and enclosed. And your stuck to following this very linear golden sparkle path that just shows you exactly where to go. I almost laughed when during one of the quests they have this maze that actually looks like it would be very cool to get through except there's this gold path. It's hilarious. It's like the level designers had no idea this path was in the game.
Anyway that rant got pretty long I'll leave it at that.
Real D&D games have bows. For some crazy reason unbeknownst to me, "MMO" seems to have to have a special class just to shoot a bow. Any Fighter worth beans should be a decent archer. Any Fighter who specializes in bows should be able to call himself an Archer. These "MMO" limits people keep harping on seem made up. I read about MMO's and there's no such limits by definition (at least that I could find).
I don't understand why people vigorously defend a system where a fighter cannot switch from a greatsword to a longsword & shield or to a bow. This makes no sense.
Yes, I play an Elven Fighter/Wizard who throws lightning bolts while wearing plate mail & swinging a sword. Any good D&D game, MMO or not, should have these options.
Well see that's the problem, Neverwinter is an MMORPG with a Forgotten Realms setting. People assumed it would have some similarities with the D&D rule sets implemented in some of the best CRPGs ever made.
There's nothing wrong with Neverwinter being an MMORPG and not having a D&D rule set, I like the game and the combat is really good. As to the reason why each class can only use 1 type of weapon and 1 type of armor it's to help "cement" the role of the class in an MMORPG. If a tank can dish out just as much damage as a DPS melee fighter and have higher survivability then there's no reason to have the DPS melee fighter. Basically it all comes down to class purpose and partying, and since it's an MMORPG there has to be a more/less severe restriction on the type of gear each class can use.
Also I'm gonna go to sleep dreaming of bows, that's just messed up.
Seriously, when will WOTC learn.... I don't get why they put their blessings on these games that just further alienate faithful DnD players.
There's only been three "good" multiplayer DnD games on the PC: NWN (Bioware), NWN 2 (Obsidian), and DDO (Turbine). Personally I think only the original NWN from Bioware is truly worthy of mention, but the others at least were an honest attempt at translation from PnP to PC.
Hard to believe in this day and age of social networking WOTC won't make a solid multiplayer DnD game with a Dungeon Master and players on voice and cam. I mean it's easy enough to do with hosts of 3rd party software like skype, openrpg, etc, plenty of ways to make it extremely profitable, but all we seem to get is a load of garbage getting released with "DnD" pinned on it.
The closest thing you may get to that is the WoTC Virtual DM. You can make your character and make maps and play PnP online with your friends who have subs.
When it comes to MMO, the rule changes. There has to be some "balance" when yo go from one hero (you) to 1000 heroes (MMO)
DDO did follow 3.5 pretty well, but overtime they had to nerf wizards cause they are too powerful in MMO format (they are still powerful in PnP format)
4e changes a BUNCH of stuff. I am not too keen on PnP version of 4e, but in MMO format it is not too bad.
I have to agree that there should be more "stat" customization and character customization (like weapon type)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Besides...the game just went into "open beta" so give them time to add things or fine tune.
I agree. I love this game. I even invest the whole package (260$) Do I regret it? no. If I want a PnP experience, I'll game with my gaming group (which I do) this is video game version MMO. Each has their up and downs.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Oh, and imo NWN did an outstanding job of capturing pnp D&D, especially the community because of how powerful the modding tools were. D&D and NWN were much more than just being about "dice", but I haven't the time or energy to explain that here. NWN was much more methodical and slower-paced, and people today probably just don't have the patience for that kind of thing. Personally, I still prefer it, but I like a good, healthy dose of depth and complexity in my games.
First, this game has a worse interface than Champions Online which is a much older game. The mix of mouse clicks and other randomized keystrokes is confusing. The fact that you cannot change them makes it worse, and the fact that they have nothing in common with any other game is not "attractive", it is idiotic. It is too close to similar games to be New and not far enough away to be unique.
Second, if you wanted to just license the Forgotten Realms, you could have done that. Licensing Neverwinter Nights is a deliberate attempt to draw in players of the earlier games. For those of you that say, "So What?", I was promised, in an interview, a worthy successor to that game. This is not it.
Third, the fingers up your nose, you WILL follow me style of game play is fine, but again, it is not D&D. Even the last two console D&D games gave you character development options.
It is your choice whether you play the game, but, personally, i think that stepping the game back to the baztardized version of the Basic/Second edition rules was lazy and a betrayal of the social contract between Cryptic and the people they want as customers. Settle for less if you like, but don't try to convince people that they did their best. Neverwinter Nights had everything the 3rd edition had to offer built in to it except for actual role playing, and that was given an environment to exist in.
Hear hear! Old school here as well (2.2), yet i've got no issues with the game, apart from the random rubberbanding which makes me enter gigglemode rather than a nerd-rage, but it's a beta, you can't expect ANY game to be perfect, least not during the beta phases.
This game has a ton of potential and i'm sure they've got more goodies in store for us after the official launch, and then there's the foundry, my gods, what else could people want? That tool is awesome.
To all the naysayers, go make your own "PnP based MMORPG", publish it, and see how well it'll be recieved, that is, if you're even able to make one.
~Admiral Arleigh Burke~
They certainly could do better with plenty of aspects, and I'm hoping we start to see the variety grow as the game does. Just have to wait and see.