test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Respeccing in video games is fun.

rokuthyrokuthy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 179 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
Playing multiple aspects of your class is something that's fun in video games. Most modern MMO's realize this, and offer ways to play multiple specs without completely breaking your bank in order to do so. I understand that you want to make money in your game. I understand that free to play games need to generate revenue. I understand that so much that I purchased both of the founder's packs, and I've purchased and spent some zen as well. I don't mind supporting a game at all, especially if it's one that I enjoy.

So, the power tree costing 600 zen doesn't bother me too much. If you sit down and really analyze what you want to do in this game with your character, you can path out several different builds to use at one time. That's where you should leave your high cost for respecs.

The feat tree is another story. The feat tree is what really molds what you want your character to do at a particular time, for a particular task. It's a short term choice (as I see it), and not a long term one. The fact that respeccing this tree at level 60 costs 151,000 AD is atrocious. I don't see it as greed, and I won't argue that point. I see it simply as this: it takes the fun away from experimenting and enjoying multiple facets of the game. For example, if you're playing a Guardian Fighter, you may want to tank some of the harder heroic instances specced down the protection tree for survival reasons. After completing your dungeon runs for the day, maybe you'd like to go do some PvP. The protection path is honestly a pretty terrible choice for PvP; the conqueror path may really have the talents you'd want to use right there. So you do a few matches after paying your 151k AD. Suddenly, a guildie asks if you'll tank an 8300 instance for them. Welp, time for another 151k. Add however many scenarios you want to this.

So, either the respec cost should be lowered drastically (the ratio of possible daily income vs. the cost of a respec is a little insane), or there needs to be some sort of dual spec system put in place. Once again, not because I want the game to be free in all aspects, but because I want certain aspects of the game to be more fun. This is one of them.
@rokuthy on Mindflayer
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
Post edited by rokuthy on
«1345

Comments

  • thevlakathevlaka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    it's PWE and cryptic.
    Good luck getting through to them.


    If they wont remove the admin spamming us each time someone receives a ****ty horse from one of the ****ty chests then we're no closer to logical changes to what we can do with AD/gold to be implemented anytime soon
  • dixa1dixa1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    show me another f2p mmorpg where respecs are free
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.
  • mathbathmathbath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 33
    edited May 2013
    makes min/maxing a little difficult at this stage. I've... had a problem with respec addiction in my mmo career. Feels good to get that out. But for serious, I'm probably going to experiment anyway. Good bye astral diamonds *sniffle*
  • eros1986eros1986 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.

    There is already a D&D game out there, I believe it is not doing so well.

    Having to respec with real money is the worst possible thing you could do on an MMO, It kills every theorycrafter out there including myself. And that's horrible for a game.

    Whiteout mentioning that at moment is impossible to go around with 2 different specs = you will have to chose between being effective in pvp or pve, or aim to mediocrity(not an option).

    Hell you cant even remove a power once you are still inside the menu.

    Personally with all due respect, it is only an excuse to make some money, which is good if this is a short term project.
  • andrewfdsaandrewfdsa Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.

    I don't see how that's relevant though :/

    This game may be grounded in D&D, but unfortunately it isn't D&D. MMOs require you to have different specs for both PvP and PvE, and the current system requires you to either choose one at the expense of the other, or choose both and put an extreme penalty on anyone who is casual or plays a moderate amount.

    There really isn't any viable excuse for not having dual talent specs or managable respecs in a modern MMO, even if you hide behind "Well we have STR/DEX/CON/WIS/INT/CHA and we call stuff feats and daily powers!" It's extremely frustrating to players and, to learn from the past, was a large part of why SW:ToR was so incredibly annoying to play.

    Unless you make a game where your build will be optimal in PvE and PvP, there is no justification. I'd prefer you just outright say, "This is one of the ways we will monetize the game," instead of "Well we don't like respecs cuz its D&D!"

    Many other things have killed the spirit of D&D a thousand times over in transitioning that system to an MMO, so I'm not buying that excuse.
  • rokuthyrokuthy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 179 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.

    You may be surprised at how much influence the theorycrafting community has on the longevity of a game. Take a look at popular MMO's (this game does want to succeed as an MMO, right?), and you can almost break down their popularity by the amount of fan driven theorycrafting available from various resources around the internet. The way respeccing works in this game (currently) all but destroys the possible popularity of theorycrafting, thus diminishing the longevity of a thriving community. Just keep that in mind.
    @rokuthy on Mindflayer
    Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
  • fieryinvectivefieryinvective Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.
    The 'spirit of D&D' isn't killed by respeccing, unless the 'spirit of D&D' has been ruined by countless actual Dungeon Masters who let their players retrain so their players can have, you know, fun.

    The true spirit of D&D is to play a fun game with your friends. No more, no less.

    That means a lot of different things to a lot of different people - your ideal D&D isn't mine, and neither is 'right'.
  • trequeltrequel Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    andrewfdsa wrote: »
    MMOs require you to have different specs for both PvP and PvE

    That's just bad game design. But for some reason it's the norm in MMOs.
  • andrewfdsaandrewfdsa Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    trequel wrote: »
    That's just bad game design. But for some reason it's the norm in MMOs.

    Not necessarily! If you have dual talent spec available it's absolutely fine. If you do PvE in MMOs, if you aren't the tank and you play perfectly you will generally take either no damage, or damage easily healed by AoE healing. Why would you want to pick up any survivability (necessary for PvP) when you aren't even supposed to be taking damage?
  • hydrahamhydraham Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dixa1 wrote: »
    show me another f2p mmorpg where respecs are free
    SWTOR cost next to nothing to respec. And it cost in-game currency not real $.
  • keterysketerys Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    D&D tabletop rules allow you to retrain a feat or power every level. Getting that as a base model would be really helpful.

    I did discover that the Foundry lets you have low level PCs for testing, so you can play around with low level talents and feats that way to see their effect.
  • yasha00yasha00 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 479 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Yes, many people requested this in the closed-beta forums; in the end the cost of a respec was raised!
  • skumgummiiskumgummii Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Respecing costing real money is really good, creates diversity. It only makes sense that you're stuck with what you skilled, just like every single pnp rpg out there.
  • sockforum44sockforum44 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 59
    edited May 2013
    trequel wrote: »
    That's just bad game design. But for some reason it's the norm in MMOs.

    Someone is not a game developer and I wonder who it is?
  • solyad1solyad1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 127 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Between respeccing for the theorycrafters and selling bag space for the pack-rats, they've focused in on the 2 best sources of revenue if you're trying to monetize one of these F2P games. Not within the spirit of the game.....hogwash.
  • ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rokuthy wrote: »
    Playing multiple aspects of your class is something that's fun in video games. Most modern MMO's realize this, and offer ways to play multiple specs without completely breaking your bank in order to do so. I understand that you want to make money in your game. I understand that free to play games need to generate revenue. I understand that so much that I purchased both of the founder's packs, and I've purchased and spent some zen as well. I don't mind supporting a game at all, especially if it's one that I enjoy.

    So, the power tree costing 600 zen doesn't bother me too much. If you sit down and really analyze what you want to do in this game with your character, you can path out several different builds to use at one time. That's where you should leave your high cost for respecs.

    The feat tree is another story. The feat tree is what really molds what you want your character to do at a particular time, for a particular task. It's a short term choice (as I see it), and not a long term one. The fact that respeccing this tree at level 60 costs 151,000 AD is atrocious. I don't see it as greed, and I won't argue that point. I see it simply as this: it takes the fun away from experimenting and enjoying multiple facets of the game. For example, if you're playing a Guardian Fighter, you may want to tank some of the harder heroic instances specced down the protection tree for survival reasons. After completing your dungeon runs for the day, maybe you'd like to go do some PvP. The protection path is honestly a pretty terrible choice for PvP; the conqueror path may really have the talents you'd want to use right there. So you do a few matches after paying your 151k AD. Suddenly, a guildie asks if you'll tank an 8300 instance for them. Welp, time for another 151k. Add however many scenarios you want to this.

    So, either the respec cost should be lowered drastically (the ratio of possible daily income vs. the cost of a respec is a little insane), or there needs to be some sort of dual spec system put in place. Once again, not because I want the game to be free in all aspects, but because I want certain aspects of the game to be more fun. This is one of them.


    Respeccing in video games is fun and like we all know the saying YOU CAN'T PUT A PICE ON FUN . There you go , you think respeccing is too much ? Well then you're clearly not having enough fun in this game and you should just move on to the next MMO's forums to QQ good luck .
  • fortie1fortie1 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    well 25 k / respec would not harm them at all
  • sockforum44sockforum44 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 59
    edited May 2013
    fortie1 wrote: »
    well 25 k / respec would not harm them at all

    25k Astrals ~ .50 cents...

    You're right. That's only 1/12th of the current price. I make price cuts like that alllll the time.
  • srthedutchsrthedutch Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think the problem the thread maker states is something that should definitly be pointed out. Now I only started playing NeverWinter yesterday but I can understand what he's saying based on experiences with other MMORPG's. I think a fine solution would be to balance each class to the point where say tank pvp can still be viable and usable in pve and a damage dealer pvp can still be a viable (though not optimal) tank in pve. OR you make it possible that players can craft/find(loot) gear in which a full-set would make a full tank dish out reasonable damage in pvp and viceversa.
  • jamp42jamp42 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Respeccing would make me and possibly many other players enjoy the game for a longer time and thus giving people a bigger reason to spend money to buy stuffs. I, personally, belive that they'd gain more money if respeccing would be free or atleast very cheap.
  • nagisannagisan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Maybe they could make a dual spec that works based on where you are? In a PvP environment, you are automatically in spec 2 (your PvP spec) and in PvE areas (everywhere except pvp areas) you are automatically in Spec 1 (your PvE spec)?

    This would allow separation of pve and pvp specs without allowing people to easily swap between two specs for say pvp (such as a tanking build and a dps build).....this would give the game a more traditional feel (in that you cant freely swap between whatever you want.....choices are more permanent than in many other MMOs) without punishing those who want to do a bit of pvp and a bit of pve.
  • kotlikotli Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 577
    edited May 2013
    You can respec feats for AD and always could they just forgot to add AD respecs for powers when they added power buying between BW3&4.
    You can max out 20 powers the most your going to use is 9 (10 if wizard) at a time.
    So since Player killing powers are also normally Boss killing powers most folk should be able to make a PvP and PvE power builds.
    I agree though it be problematic for tanks since they need threat for PvE dungeons but this has minimal effect in PvP.
  • romequietusromequietus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: reroll = respec

    I'm personally glad there isn't two specs or easy access to respec, it means that only those who really want to succeed at a particular portion of the game will do so. Making things more difficult for low information people is fine by me.
  • belraxbelrax Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I had to LOL when I read the guy saying This is D&D, that's how it is. No re specs. I'm a DM.

    Last time I checked there wasn't any re spawning at will or PVP in D&D. Face it this is an MMORPG. It has hints of D&D, but honestly you should be ashamed of calling it the same as D&D. I would go as far as saying that if you are a hardcore D&D player you would avoid this game like the plague. You just aren't going to get the same experience as tabletop D&D. Because its an MMORPG!!

    I am going to guess that a lot of theory crafters, the real math genius types, are going to play something else. I shutter to think just how often these guys respec trying to find THE BUILD™.

    Maybe people will just reroll to try out something, but it seems very difficult if your going to do so to test out high level power/feat combos.
  • preezuspreezus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    belrax wrote: »
    I am going to guess that a lot of theory crafters, the real math genius types are, going to play something else. I shutter to think just how often these guys respec trying to find THE BUILD™.

    Well I math-nerded out on a simple game like Diablo 3 lol...this game will kill me. I've never really played an MMO before but the math here is definitely more compelling. :]
  • cihuacoatlcihuacoatl Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is D&D Doesn't Value Respecs.

    There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
    But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.

    Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would. ;)
    So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.

    I actually agree with you. Coming from Rift respecing has a LOT of issues. Mainly every class is pigeon holed into 2-3 builds. For almost a year it was 1-2. While the illusion of options was there... in the end there was really none.

    I like it the way it is... you make a choice you have to live with it. A lot like real life.
  • adevlin1991adevlin1991 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 56
    edited May 2013
    There should at least be a way to take a clone of your character into the foundry editor then respec it at will along with gear to test builds.
  • thevlakathevlaka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    seeing as leveling and point spending is totally linear until you spend a certain amount of points I don't understand why they'd make such a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and unreasonable decision like this and have respecs cost Zen.

    PRO TIP: Cryptic, take a look at GW2. Look how they handle things when it comes to respecs. LEARN. DON'T SHOOT YOURSELVES IN THE FOOT.

    PRO TIP 2: give us the option of exchanging the useless gold for AD ffs.
  • kentiahkentiah Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    belrax wrote: »
    I had to LOL when I read the guy saying This is D&D, that's how it is. No re specs. I'm a DM.

    Last time I checked there wasn't any re spawning at will or PVP in D&D. Face it this is an MMORPG. It has hints of D&D, but honestly you should be ashamed of calling it the same as D&D. I would go as far as saying that if you are a hardcore D&D player you would avoid this game like the plague. You just aren't going to get the same experience as tabletop D&D. Because its an MMORPG!!

    I am going to guess that a lot of theory crafters, the real math genius types, are going to play something else. I shutter to think just how often these guys respec trying to find THE BUILD™.

    Maybe people will just reroll to try out something, but it seems very difficult if your going to do so to test out high level power/feat combos.

    No PvP in DnD? If you're a bad DM maybe, apparently you've never created any kind tense situation to have the possibility of your players fight each other, not to mention you can retrain a power or feat every time you level, so yeah, you kinda can respec.
Sign In or Register to comment.