thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
dont hold your breaths for Cryptic to take into consideration any suggestion or concerns DnD pnp players have in regards to NWO. It's PWE way or the highway.
Money first, player requests last.
I see alot of people Dismissing those that are complaining about the cost of respecs.
Granted, Cyrptic has to make money but it is a VERY bad idea to force people to pay for a feature that is nearly a necessity. Respeccing adds more fun and experimentation. If I have more fun with a toon, i like it more, i then want to buy cool stuff for my toon, such as mounts.
edit: I am an older gamer with alot of disposable income and I have an email for 15% off zen purchase that is collecting dust in my inbox...why? Ques for guardians and paying for respecs have made me disinterested in spending anymore money on this game for now.
See my point? Cryptic making me feel like i "HAVE" to spend money to enjoy a f2p game means i spend less than making me "WANT" to spend money on a f2p game.
Or you could you know...give each new character 1 free respec and every one after that could cost what it currently does.
This would allow those new to the game to make mistakes their first time through and fix them later on without feeling like they were penalized for not knowing the game inside and out while also making sure they are still generating revenue from those who just want to play around.
Nobody is going to make and level new characters constantly to try to theory craft. The time invested doing that could be better spent farming gear while you farm the diamonds.
I usually am not interested in beta testing but started looking into Neverwinter a couple of days ago ... and downloading the client as I type.
Just to get this clear, since I simply do not know, no respec is obtainable with only in game funds? No rare respec gems or paying virtual currency? : o
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l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes, many people requested this in the closed-beta forums; in the end the cost of a respec was raised!
Every commodity request, no matter how well worded or logical has not only been ignored .. but they actually do the opposite.
I have yet to see one move that was not even further on the fringe of milking the most out of the community.
Sad really, as micro transactions actually work very well ... I would respec much more often if they didn't up the price (was $5 in beta) .. now $6
Ah well. They will find out where greed will get you.
As for the 'flavour of D&D' argument ... an MMO is the furthest thing from PnP. It is very dynamic with much more going on that questing and ever evolving rulesets and options.
Hate to give them another idea to lure people into more respecs .. but if you removed the 20 skill pt prereq and added a L20 prereq for powers, people would do a L60 respec everytime, as they could 'shed' some of that useless garbage they were forced to buy to unlock the 3rd level of powers ... ijs
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championchains03Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.
Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would.
So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.
Normally I don't respond to threads like this, but the above quote is absolute horse ****. Nobody who is playing this game cares if you are a pen and paper DM. Pen and paper D&D and an MMO based off D&D are worlds apart. Pen and paper doesn't offer pvp which requires a drastically different spec than pve. People usually want to experience all aspects of a game (especially if they are paying). If you want pen and paper rules, go back to playing pen and paper. In pen and paper D&D, you don't tank a skirmish and a dungeon and then need to respec for more damage output to run your daily pvp and foundry. Tanks and healers (the backbone of any group) are affected most by this terribly designed system.
The reality is that charging cash for a respec isn't going to make you more money, it's going to run off customers.
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salimusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
Normally I don't respond to threads like this, but the above quote is absolute horse ****. Nobody who is playing this game cares if you are a pen and paper DM. Pen and paper D&D and an MMO based off D&D are worlds apart. Pen and paper doesn't offer pvp which requires a drastically different spec than pve. People usually want to experience all aspects of a game (especially if they are paying). If you want pen and paper rules, go back to playing pen and paper. In pen and paper D&D, you don't tank a skirmish and a dungeon and then need to respec for more damage output to run your daily pvp and foundry. Tanks and healers (the backbone of any group) are affected most by this terribly designed system.
The reality is that charging cash for a respec isn't going to make you more money, it's going to run off customers.
Yeah I agree P&P D&D is content driven for the analytical imaganative player who enjoys the experience and can visualize the senario in his own mind. Its the difference between reading a good book and watching it in theatre, worlds a part. No matter how much game companies design a system to immerse the user in its content you just cant compare to the imagination. Now, you could give it a head start by getting away from this lootwhoring concept by way of motivating people through something other than getting items. Entire games are driven by loot and just because it motivates doesnt mean its good. Motivation through temptation = BAD... D&D was never really about the loot. It was about life.. it was about YOUR choice... what you would do. It taught you about yourself and gave you an insight into your own soul and who you really were. When given the choice who were you? Sometimes, that would curb you and you didnt chose the magic item, you chose to save the life... you chose the gratious option. Sometimes, you risked your own life to help someone in need for no other reason that to save them. I watch this video "What is Neverwinter?" and it makes me want to vomit. I think it is a disgrace to what D&D is. D&D survives because of what it is to its players and what it does for them. It is the most delightlful form of self-introspection I have ever experienced and I think for many players, it is why they love the RPG genre. This game was to "pay tribute to the D&D fan", lets start doing that...
valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
People are actually defending this. "No this is how it should be". "It's too cheap if anything". wtf is wrong with you people. This is the cheapest move in the history of a f2p model. respeccing is the most basic thing you rely on in mmos and forcing you to pay for this is absurd. Considering how many different playstyles there is. I respec more than once a week. This makes me sick.
It won't change my opinion on playing the game, the game is really good, having alot of fun.
I in no way expect Perfect World to change anything. I've played alot of their games, and sh*it is still as they always were. Cheap and money grabby. 2 years later.
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valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Normally I don't respond to threads like this, but the above quote is absolute horse ****. Nobody who is playing this game cares if you are a pen and paper DM. Pen and paper D&D and an MMO based off D&D are worlds apart. Pen and paper doesn't offer pvp which requires a drastically different spec than pve. People usually want to experience all aspects of a game (especially if they are paying). If you want pen and paper rules, go back to playing pen and paper. In pen and paper D&D, you don't tank a skirmish and a dungeon and then need to respec for more damage output to run your daily pvp and foundry. Tanks and healers (the backbone of any group) are affected most by this terribly designed system.
The reality is that charging cash for a respec isn't going to make you more money, it's going to run off customers.
Totally agree bro.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I think both camps are right. However, the D&D old school camp needs to understand a key difference between this game and D&D:
The biggest problem I see is that in the Dungeons and Dragons system, you know what an ability adds to your character. You can read a feat description and see that "this feat gives +1 damage/level against enemies". You know that at level 10, +10 damage can help against a 54 HP opponent.
This is not the case in this game. Can you tell me what the average priest's +recovery will be? What is 5% of that (per the feat description)? What about the "adds % of power to crit" feat? What will that mean at level 28 (when you get it)? What does that mean at 60? What will a mob's health be at level 60? How much damage will ability A do affected by that feat?
In PnP DnD, any edition, even the convoluted 3rd edition, you can read up on a feat and have full access to the information, fight an aurumvorax "solo" via the game rules, to figure out if that's a feat you are going to take. The player can enlighten himself on the feat.
Feats in DnD are also very different. They are half for flavor, half for combat advantage. In PnP, I can take a feat to make my idiot fighter a smooth talker. Here, it's all for fighting (because there is little else this game is designed around).
As of last patch, we have a few videos which say "this isn't that great" or "this feat could be better". There are no hard facts about the combat system (and actually, there will be nothing to say that the ability won't be changed next week) and number crunching a combat scenario is nearly impossible, compared to DnD.
Thus, I see the justification in respecs. The system itself isn't clear. And I'm all for clarity when your telling your players what a feat (choice) will do for you. The way some feats are worded (I'm looking at GWF in particular), they are so vague you're not sure what the heck they are really modifying.
That, my old school neckbeard friends, is the difference between NWN (the old 3ED game), and PnP, and this particular MMO. And hence why people get a little upset from taking a feat and having to pay for it once you realize (like the 5/5 1% of power added to crit ability for clerics) that this isn't a good thing to get.
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spydermonkyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I remember a time when there were no such things as respecs in MMOs. You researched your character, made choices and, like life, lived and dealt with them. If you weren't happy with your end game, you created another character and developed it differently. This created a world where your choices mattered.
The attitude I see here seems to be indicative of a larger societal problem where people don't want to be responsible for their actions or deal with the reprocussions of their choices.
Is cryptic/PWE trying to make money off of respecs? Yes. They are a business after a profit. However, astral diamonds do not cost real money, so feats can be respec'd free. Otherwise, oh no, you have to actually live with your decisions! Or spend some money to "support" a company who risked quite a bit to make a free to play game.
There's plenty of people requesting common respecs...
But Respecs kill the Spirit of D&D.
Respecs are here because it is an MMO but hard-behind Dungeon Masters like myself don't even allow respecs and never would.
So it's the clash of two worlds with the compromise of adding them and not making them a common event.
My DM allows respecs but only under VERY extenuating circumstances. And even then it's only for very specific things. Since he's a newish DM these have been stat value swaps and feat changes because he was unaware certain ones aren't supposed to stack with others(we play Pathfinder as an aside) but I couldn't imagine the ability to change everything whenever I wanted. That's just absurd.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
SWTOR cost next to nothing to respec. And it cost in-game currency not real $.
because the game gives each class multiple roles. their rogues are also healers. their tanks are also the games top dps class. their wizards are also healers. they have only two single role classes out of 8. and it started out p2p. i clearly should have discounted p2p conversions.
this game however does not need to give each class multiple spec options. you arent horribly gimped by trying ot heal as a dps focused cleric or tank as a dps focused guardian fighter. the other 3 classes it doesnt matter if they are dps focused or not, including the cw.
You may be surprised at how much influence the theorycrafting community has on the longevity of a game. Take a look at popular MMO's (this game does want to succeed as an MMO, right?), and you can almost break down their popularity by the amount of fan driven theorycrafting available from various resources around the internet. The way respeccing works in this game (currently) all but destroys the possible popularity of theorycrafting, thus diminishing the longevity of a thriving community. Just keep that in mind.
I remember a time when there were no such things as respecs in MMOs. You researched your character, made choices and, like life, lived and dealt with them. If you weren't happy with your end game, you created another character and developed it differently. This created a world where your choices mattered. The attitude I see here seems to be indicative of a larger societal problem where people don't want to be responsible for their actions or deal with the reprocussions of their choices.
The old MMOs I remember didn't have specs. You rolled a class and had access to every single ability/spell of that class. Then you had all abilities for whenever you needed them. If you wanted to be a tank, you equipped a shield and defensive gear and put threat/mitigation abilities on your bars. You still had the offensive/dps abilities if you wanted to pvp or run dps later. there was no speccing or a need for respecs. Also, MMOs have evolved. For the better. Comparing an MMO still in development in 2013 to an MMO made in '95 is like comparing a buggy to a Bentley. "In my day you had to hook your buggy to a horse. Now you guys got these newfangled "auto"mobiles. Buggies were so much better"
Also, this is a GAME. People "live with the consequences of the choices they make" in their real lives. Games are a break from reality and many people play them as stress relief.
Edit: I'd pay $20 for a second spec with no qualms whatsoever. Maybe even $20 more for a 3rd if that was an option. But having to pay $6 every single time you need to respec is a joke.
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amiricleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
I feel the need to chime in that chargeing for respecs is stupid and will have an opportunity cost that will far exceed whatever gains they may get. At the very least, they should allow everyone to have two full specs to swap freely between or the vast majority are just going to be handicapped in either pvp or pve.
Some of us actually want to be able to PvP and PvE with an equal amount of effectiveness bud, and that means respeccing.
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spydermonkyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Actually, most of the old MMOs did have spec lines. DAoC, as one example, had very specific lines that you had to make choices in. While you could just equip a shield and sword to tank, you would be lacking the abilities and have issues tanking. Furthermore, while MMOs have evolved, not everything is for the better. For instance, the need to have separate specs for PvP and PvE is something prevalent in new MMOs. I do not see that as better. The ability to respec, at will, with no "cost", may in your opinion be an improvement, but, as I stated above, I see it as indicative of many issues in society today.
Yes, it is a game. Yes people, including myself, play games to relieve stress. And yet, your argument is that this game causes stress because you can not respec at will. My argument would be that if people thought about their choices, exercised some resilience, and enjoyed the game, min/max and constant respecs wouldn't be an issue.
Why do you people keep making things up? What was asked here wasn't an at-will, free respec, but rather a decrease in the cost and/or a dual build system to be able to fully enjoy all aspects of the game.
Actually, most of the old MMOs did have spec lines. DAoC, as one example, had very specific lines that you had to make choices in. While you could just equip a shield and sword to tank, you would be lacking the abilities and have issues tanking. Furthermore, while MMOs have evolved, not everything is for the better. For instance, the need to have separate specs for PvP and PvE is something prevalent in new MMOs. I do not see that as better. The ability to respec, at will, with no "cost", may in your opinion be an improvement, but, as I stated above, I see it as indicative of many issues in society today.
Yes, it is a game. Yes people, including myself, play games to relieve stress. And yet, your argument is that this game causes stress because you can not respec at will. My argument would be that if people thought about their choices, exercised some resilience, and enjoyed the game, min/max and constant respecs wouldn't be an issue.
This isn't an issue of "people thought about their choices" or not. This game is brand new. The resources required to make informed decisions on a max level spec do not exist yet. If you are level 10, you have no way to find out what is viable at high level without piggybacking off someone else.
People don't like to play suboptimal characters. People used to have suboptimal characters, so what changed? Things started getting more serious, and MMOs changed with things like Shadowbane and Everquest. Just because your opinion that a new player should have to spend 20-60 hours on a new character because you think MMOs should regress because b'awwwwww! things aren't hardcore enough for me! doesn't mean that's how it should be. You'd see Neverwinter die for your opinions.
Respecs are an integral part of mmo, and an important tool the player has to learn his class, evaluate his build, and customize his abilities depending on activities (dungeons, pvp, pve farming etc).
Selling respecs 6 dollars a piece is hilarious. Do they have any clue what gamer base they dealing with?
Or maybe they want turn off the paying customers like me, and keep freeloaders game base?
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eyepatchdudeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Respecs can be purchased with in game currency.. AD, and, considering that at there's many ways to get them in game, upwards of 20k a day, not including selling on the AH, I see no problem with 160kish ad for respecs.. You want to totally revamp your character? No problem, once a week seems about right for that, or you can accelerate that, it just costs more.
Actually, if respec tokens are 600zen, You can respec roughly once a day by exchanging your AD for zen on the marketplace, and buying a token..
As many other people have said, it's just vital to player enjoyment, because in MMOs you need to change between at least two different specializations to fill different roles. Having it have a huge cost is just a huge deterrent for players, and I think it would actually turn off players from populating the game and making purchases rather than having them pay.
Respecs can be purchased with in game currency.. AD, and, considering that at there's many ways to get them in game, upwards of 20k a day, not including selling on the AH, I see no problem with 160kish ad for respecs.. You want to totally revamp your character? No problem, once a week seems about right for that, or you can accelerate that, it just costs more.
Actually, if respec tokens are 600zen, You can respec roughly once a day by exchanging your AD for zen on the marketplace, and buying a token..
This really seems like a non-issue.
I'm just going to guess this is your first MMO if you don't see an issue with that.
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eyepatchdudeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
You'd guess wrong.. I however, don't see an issue with it the way it is.. even right now, where the zen>ad exchange rate HEAVILY favors zen (still trading at max rate of 500 ad > 1 zen) 300k AD is the cost for the full respec token you can purchase from the zen store. Which is the most it could ever be. On the other end of the spectrum, the minimum exchange rate is 50ad>1zen.. which means that same respec token could be available for as little as 30k AD.
There are two types of players.. those who complain about the system, and those who figure out how to work within it, and use it.
Perhaps it's just the Eve pilot in me who see's this as reasonable. Heck, In eve, if you're willing to put the time in, you can play the whole game for free.. Of course SOMEONE has to pay for the Plex with Real Money..
People will want AD, and will buy zen to exchange for AD.. As the initial surplus of AD is consumed, you'll be able to get more zen for your AD.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Actually, most of the old MMOs did have spec lines. DAoC, as one example, had very specific lines that you had to make choices in. While you could just equip a shield and sword to tank, you would be lacking the abilities and have issues tanking. Furthermore, while MMOs have evolved, not everything is for the better. For instance, the need to have separate specs for PvP and PvE is something prevalent in new MMOs. I do not see that as better. The ability to respec, at will, with no "cost", may in your opinion be an improvement, but, as I stated above, I see it as indicative of many issues in society today.
Yes, it is a game. Yes people, including myself, play games to relieve stress. And yet, your argument is that this game causes stress because you can not respec at will. My argument would be that if people thought about their choices, exercised some resilience, and enjoyed the game, min/max and constant respecs wouldn't be an issue.
whoa now
daoc didnt have respecs for a very long time. every now and then the dev team would change something and give everyone either a spec or rvr respec, but we're talking like once a year on average. it was only done due to drastic class changes or an expac launched or a special event happened.
there were drops you could find..some egg thing don't remember what it was called..that would also give them. 4 years of that game i never saw one though.
Respecing costing real money is really good, creates diversity.
No, it does the opposite. It causes people to use cookie cutter builds instead of experimenting and finding an individual build that works for them.
I made my own build for my CW, and I used a respec token to tweak it. My other classes will copy a build from someone else. It is not about the six bucks. I spent hundreds on the game already, and I am fine with paying for optional stuff that enhances my playing experience and that makes me happy. I like to buy fluff, but I disagree with charging for a MMO standard feature. Buying a respec token causes little more than resentment.
This is unrelated to DnD or PnP, because they also sell respec tokens in STO and CO.
No, it does the opposite. It causes people to use cookie cutter builds instead of experimenting and finding an individual build that works for them.
I made my own build for my CW, and I used a respec token to tweak it. My other classes will copy a build from someone else. It is not about the six bucks. I spent hundreds on the game already, and I am fine with paying for optional stuff that enhances my playing experience and that makes me happy. I like to buy fluff, but I disagree with charging for a MMO standard feature. Buying a respec token causes little more than resentment.
This is unrelated to DnD or PnP, because they also sell respec tokens in STO and CO.
Okay, you also play STO and CO.. How many retrain tokens do you have, on each character, due to the changes to skills, powers, etc..
I know I have quite a few of them, along with costume change tokens, etc.. Now, why don't you believe that Cryptic/PWE will continue that behavior, and issue tokens when there are large changes made to powers.. Such as when they release new paragon paths...
Comments
Money first, player requests last.
Granted, Cyrptic has to make money but it is a VERY bad idea to force people to pay for a feature that is nearly a necessity. Respeccing adds more fun and experimentation. If I have more fun with a toon, i like it more, i then want to buy cool stuff for my toon, such as mounts.
edit: I am an older gamer with alot of disposable income and I have an email for 15% off zen purchase that is collecting dust in my inbox...why? Ques for guardians and paying for respecs have made me disinterested in spending anymore money on this game for now.
See my point? Cryptic making me feel like i "HAVE" to spend money to enjoy a f2p game means i spend less than making me "WANT" to spend money on a f2p game.
This would allow those new to the game to make mistakes their first time through and fix them later on without feeling like they were penalized for not knowing the game inside and out while also making sure they are still generating revenue from those who just want to play around.
Nobody is going to make and level new characters constantly to try to theory craft. The time invested doing that could be better spent farming gear while you farm the diamonds.
Just to get this clear, since I simply do not know, no respec is obtainable with only in game funds? No rare respec gems or paying virtual currency? : o
Every commodity request, no matter how well worded or logical has not only been ignored .. but they actually do the opposite.
I have yet to see one move that was not even further on the fringe of milking the most out of the community.
Sad really, as micro transactions actually work very well ... I would respec much more often if they didn't up the price (was $5 in beta) .. now $6
Ah well. They will find out where greed will get you.
As for the 'flavour of D&D' argument ... an MMO is the furthest thing from PnP. It is very dynamic with much more going on that questing and ever evolving rulesets and options.
Hate to give them another idea to lure people into more respecs .. but if you removed the 20 skill pt prereq and added a L20 prereq for powers, people would do a L60 respec everytime, as they could 'shed' some of that useless garbage they were forced to buy to unlock the 3rd level of powers ... ijs
Normally I don't respond to threads like this, but the above quote is absolute horse ****. Nobody who is playing this game cares if you are a pen and paper DM. Pen and paper D&D and an MMO based off D&D are worlds apart. Pen and paper doesn't offer pvp which requires a drastically different spec than pve. People usually want to experience all aspects of a game (especially if they are paying). If you want pen and paper rules, go back to playing pen and paper. In pen and paper D&D, you don't tank a skirmish and a dungeon and then need to respec for more damage output to run your daily pvp and foundry. Tanks and healers (the backbone of any group) are affected most by this terribly designed system.
The reality is that charging cash for a respec isn't going to make you more money, it's going to run off customers.
Yeah I agree P&P D&D is content driven for the analytical imaganative player who enjoys the experience and can visualize the senario in his own mind. Its the difference between reading a good book and watching it in theatre, worlds a part. No matter how much game companies design a system to immerse the user in its content you just cant compare to the imagination. Now, you could give it a head start by getting away from this lootwhoring concept by way of motivating people through something other than getting items. Entire games are driven by loot and just because it motivates doesnt mean its good. Motivation through temptation = BAD... D&D was never really about the loot. It was about life.. it was about YOUR choice... what you would do. It taught you about yourself and gave you an insight into your own soul and who you really were. When given the choice who were you? Sometimes, that would curb you and you didnt chose the magic item, you chose to save the life... you chose the gratious option. Sometimes, you risked your own life to help someone in need for no other reason that to save them. I watch this video "What is Neverwinter?" and it makes me want to vomit. I think it is a disgrace to what D&D is. D&D survives because of what it is to its players and what it does for them. It is the most delightlful form of self-introspection I have ever experienced and I think for many players, it is why they love the RPG genre. This game was to "pay tribute to the D&D fan", lets start doing that...
60 Control Wizard
<EXILE>
Dragon Server
It won't change my opinion on playing the game, the game is really good, having alot of fun.
I in no way expect Perfect World to change anything. I've played alot of their games, and sh*it is still as they always were. Cheap and money grabby. 2 years later.
Totally agree bro.
The biggest problem I see is that in the Dungeons and Dragons system, you know what an ability adds to your character. You can read a feat description and see that "this feat gives +1 damage/level against enemies". You know that at level 10, +10 damage can help against a 54 HP opponent.
This is not the case in this game. Can you tell me what the average priest's +recovery will be? What is 5% of that (per the feat description)? What about the "adds % of power to crit" feat? What will that mean at level 28 (when you get it)? What does that mean at 60? What will a mob's health be at level 60? How much damage will ability A do affected by that feat?
In PnP DnD, any edition, even the convoluted 3rd edition, you can read up on a feat and have full access to the information, fight an aurumvorax "solo" via the game rules, to figure out if that's a feat you are going to take. The player can enlighten himself on the feat.
Feats in DnD are also very different. They are half for flavor, half for combat advantage. In PnP, I can take a feat to make my idiot fighter a smooth talker. Here, it's all for fighting (because there is little else this game is designed around).
As of last patch, we have a few videos which say "this isn't that great" or "this feat could be better". There are no hard facts about the combat system (and actually, there will be nothing to say that the ability won't be changed next week) and number crunching a combat scenario is nearly impossible, compared to DnD.
Thus, I see the justification in respecs. The system itself isn't clear. And I'm all for clarity when your telling your players what a feat (choice) will do for you. The way some feats are worded (I'm looking at GWF in particular), they are so vague you're not sure what the heck they are really modifying.
That, my old school neckbeard friends, is the difference between NWN (the old 3ED game), and PnP, and this particular MMO. And hence why people get a little upset from taking a feat and having to pay for it once you realize (like the 5/5 1% of power added to crit ability for clerics) that this isn't a good thing to get.
The attitude I see here seems to be indicative of a larger societal problem where people don't want to be responsible for their actions or deal with the reprocussions of their choices.
Is cryptic/PWE trying to make money off of respecs? Yes. They are a business after a profit. However, astral diamonds do not cost real money, so feats can be respec'd free. Otherwise, oh no, you have to actually live with your decisions! Or spend some money to "support" a company who risked quite a bit to make a free to play game.
My DM allows respecs but only under VERY extenuating circumstances. And even then it's only for very specific things. Since he's a newish DM these have been stat value swaps and feat changes because he was unaware certain ones aren't supposed to stack with others(we play Pathfinder as an aside) but I couldn't imagine the ability to change everything whenever I wanted.
because the game gives each class multiple roles. their rogues are also healers. their tanks are also the games top dps class. their wizards are also healers. they have only two single role classes out of 8. and it started out p2p. i clearly should have discounted p2p conversions.
this game however does not need to give each class multiple spec options. you arent horribly gimped by trying ot heal as a dps focused cleric or tank as a dps focused guardian fighter. the other 3 classes it doesnt matter if they are dps focused or not, including the cw.
Just keep that in mind.
The old MMOs I remember didn't have specs. You rolled a class and had access to every single ability/spell of that class. Then you had all abilities for whenever you needed them. If you wanted to be a tank, you equipped a shield and defensive gear and put threat/mitigation abilities on your bars. You still had the offensive/dps abilities if you wanted to pvp or run dps later. there was no speccing or a need for respecs. Also, MMOs have evolved. For the better. Comparing an MMO still in development in 2013 to an MMO made in '95 is like comparing a buggy to a Bentley. "In my day you had to hook your buggy to a horse. Now you guys got these newfangled "auto"mobiles. Buggies were so much better"
Also, this is a GAME. People "live with the consequences of the choices they make" in their real lives. Games are a break from reality and many people play them as stress relief.
Edit: I'd pay $20 for a second spec with no qualms whatsoever. Maybe even $20 more for a 3rd if that was an option. But having to pay $6 every single time you need to respec is a joke.
Yes, it is a game. Yes people, including myself, play games to relieve stress. And yet, your argument is that this game causes stress because you can not respec at will. My argument would be that if people thought about their choices, exercised some resilience, and enjoyed the game, min/max and constant respecs wouldn't be an issue.
This isn't an issue of "people thought about their choices" or not. This game is brand new. The resources required to make informed decisions on a max level spec do not exist yet. If you are level 10, you have no way to find out what is viable at high level without piggybacking off someone else.
People don't like to play suboptimal characters. People used to have suboptimal characters, so what changed? Things started getting more serious, and MMOs changed with things like Shadowbane and Everquest. Just because your opinion that a new player should have to spend 20-60 hours on a new character because you think MMOs should regress because b'awwwwww! things aren't hardcore enough for me! doesn't mean that's how it should be. You'd see Neverwinter die for your opinions.
Selling respecs 6 dollars a piece is hilarious. Do they have any clue what gamer base they dealing with?
Or maybe they want turn off the paying customers like me, and keep freeloaders game base?
Actually, if respec tokens are 600zen, You can respec roughly once a day by exchanging your AD for zen on the marketplace, and buying a token..
This really seems like a non-issue.
As many other people have said, it's just vital to player enjoyment, because in MMOs you need to change between at least two different specializations to fill different roles. Having it have a huge cost is just a huge deterrent for players, and I think it would actually turn off players from populating the game and making purchases rather than having them pay.
I'm just going to guess this is your first MMO if you don't see an issue with that.
There are two types of players.. those who complain about the system, and those who figure out how to work within it, and use it.
Perhaps it's just the Eve pilot in me who see's this as reasonable. Heck, In eve, if you're willing to put the time in, you can play the whole game for free.. Of course SOMEONE has to pay for the Plex with Real Money..
People will want AD, and will buy zen to exchange for AD.. As the initial surplus of AD is consumed, you'll be able to get more zen for your AD.
whoa now
daoc didnt have respecs for a very long time. every now and then the dev team would change something and give everyone either a spec or rvr respec, but we're talking like once a year on average. it was only done due to drastic class changes or an expac launched or a special event happened.
there were drops you could find..some egg thing don't remember what it was called..that would also give them. 4 years of that game i never saw one though.
No, it does the opposite. It causes people to use cookie cutter builds instead of experimenting and finding an individual build that works for them.
I made my own build for my CW, and I used a respec token to tweak it. My other classes will copy a build from someone else. It is not about the six bucks. I spent hundreds on the game already, and I am fine with paying for optional stuff that enhances my playing experience and that makes me happy. I like to buy fluff, but I disagree with charging for a MMO standard feature. Buying a respec token causes little more than resentment.
This is unrelated to DnD or PnP, because they also sell respec tokens in STO and CO.
Okay, you also play STO and CO.. How many retrain tokens do you have, on each character, due to the changes to skills, powers, etc..
I know I have quite a few of them, along with costume change tokens, etc.. Now, why don't you believe that Cryptic/PWE will continue that behavior, and issue tokens when there are large changes made to powers.. Such as when they release new paragon paths...