Throwing knives is an iconic ability of trickster rogue - even shown in the promotional video trailer where half elf rogue displays the abilities used in game.
Removing that ability they may as well as name it "the no-aim low-intellegence" rogue instead of trickster rogue.
The "no-aim low-intelligence" rogue is how I felt when I used it. Just hold down a button for four seconds and watch the hit points evaporate. Versus the dance were you often had to trick your opponent to get off your good attacks.
Besides, it isn't like they haven't removed iconic abilities that were in the promotional vids before. Just look at the GWF.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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jamescoskerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. Apparently they can have ranged, since they do.
2. Not asking for a nerf, asking for a switch in abilities. Replace it with a melee.
3. I'm aware CWs can beat rogues as well as rogues can beat CWs. I played both extensively. I don't believe the TR should have an advantage at ranged over them however.
when you rech lvl 60 and pvp then say something .
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jamescoskerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I don't know why you keep bringing up Great Weapon fighters I like that class alot.
I play on picking that class in headstart nothing wrong with it.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
game hasn't even come out and we've got whingers already crying for nerfs...
agreed get to level 60 and get some pvp experience against lv 60 rogue before you start shouting nerf
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malkavianiteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited April 2013
I'm curious zingarbage, if the game had absolutely no PvP in it (hypothetically speaking), would you still want the ranged at-will removed from the TR? Because it seems to me that your arguments are based mainly, if not solely, on PvP balance—which is why so many of us are in an uproar about it. Balancing PvE abilities based on PvP is never a good thing, and only ever leads to more headache down the road.
I'm curious zingarbage, if the game had absolutely no PvP in it (hypothetically speaking), would you still want the ranged at-will removed from the TR? Because it seems to me that your arguments are based mainly, if not solely, on PvP balance—which is why so many of us are in an uproar about it. Balancing PvE abilities based on PvP is never a good thing, and only ever leads to more headache down the road.
I agree with malkavianite. PVP and PVE should have nothing to do with each other. Nerfing character skills because you think they have an unfair advantage in PVP is ridiculous.
This game is based on D&D. Trickster Rogues in D&D have ranged attacks. Why does it bother you so much that Rogues get throwing knives in this game? It makes absolute sense. Zingarbage is just insistent on getting Rogues nerfed into the ground across the board it seems. Every time I see him post it's the same old story.
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
when you rech lvl 60 and pvp then say something .
I think I made it fairly clear that it may not scale well. It does scale incredibly well up to level 39.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm curious zingarbage, if the game had absolutely no PvP in it (hypothetically speaking), would you still want the ranged at-will removed from the TR? Because it seems to me that your arguments are based mainly, if not solely, on PvP balance
Removed or have the damage reduced. It is the strongest ranged at will and very well may be the strongest ranged attack in the game currently including encounter and daily powers.
LOL. Nerf Rogues REALLY? Okay look if you get killed by a rogue using his RANGED ATTACk that means something very important:
You were already dead, because you were running away from a rogue. QQ more.
To top that D&D isn't suppose to be BALANCED for PVP. Have any of you cry babies ever ACTUALLY PLAYED D&D? Yanno the game where one failed save vs a wizard means you DIE?
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
LOL. Nerf Rogues REALLY? Okay look if you get killed by a rogue using his RANGED ATTACk that means something very important:
You were already dead, because you were running away from a rogue. QQ more.
To top that D&D isn't suppose to be BALANCED for PVP. Have any of you cry babies ever ACTUALLY PLAYED D&D? Yanno the game where one failed save vs a wizard means you DIE?
I can appreciate your reference to table top gaming. It has its own kind of greatness to it. However, you can understand how translating that over into an online game isn't really 100% feasible.
If we had Harry and Ron going around one shotting everything, well everyone would be playing Harry and Ron.
I can appreciate your reference to table top gaming. It has its own kind of greatness to it. However, you can understand how translating that over into an online game isn't really 100% feasible.
If we had Harry and Ron going around one shotting everything, well everyone would be playing Harry and Ron.
Removed or have the damage reduced. It is the strongest ranged at will and very well may be the strongest ranged attack in the game currently including encounter and daily powers.
Ok, sticking with the PvE only hypothetical, why does it matter if it's the strongest ranged at-will? The TR is a striker role, so they're meant to be doing the most damage.
If it's the strongest ranged attack period, including encounter and daily attacks, then yeah something is probably a bit off there. But I haven't seen anyone give any real proof of that claim yet.
If the skill isn't balanced in PvE either (on the assumption that it is indeed overpowered in PvP), then I'll join you in your cries for a nerf, but everything I've read so far makes it sound like those arguing for a nerf to Cloud of Steel are doing so based on their experience with it in PvP. And, as I've stated previously, I find it neither wise nor fair to be balancing PvP and PvE together.
The CW is based on control, but they felt the need to nerf to amount of time their stuns lasted in pvp. I don't think its unreasonable to nerf the damage output of rogues a bit in pvp only.
actually it's not like that, they increased the control duration in PvE not nerfed it in PvP because the earlier CW versions felt way too weak in PvE as far as control goes.
A) CW is the strongest PvP class by far and nobody is crying for nerfs game is balanced for PvE.
C) rogue in high level PvP is not nearly as good (in comparison to other classes) as whiners make it out to be
Just to be clear, I don't want to see a nerf to Tr in pve at all, or necessarily on pvp either, but in a pvp setting i think each class should be just as difficult to defeat as another, where-ever the "nerfs" need to fall for that to happen.
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bpphantomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A) CW is the strongest PvP class by far and nobody is crying for nerfs game is balanced for PvE.
C) rogue in high level PvP is not nearly as good (in comparison to other classes) as whiners make it out to be
On its own the CW isn't really super strong, but when you get 2+ of them in a match they feed off of each other and get much stronger. I've made a small suggestion on CWs of allowing them only 2 blinks per stamina bar vs. the 3 they have currently. I'm not sure why they were given 3 instead of 2 like the other classes.
That's the part that blows my mind. Pretty much everyone that's played a fair amount of PVP over the BWE's agrees that CW is the most overpowered class in PVP at the moment. But you see way more threads of people whining about Rogues than CW. Makes my brain hurt. Every match of PVP I played in BW4 was decided by which team had more CW. Not once did I win a match when the other team had more CW's than my team had.
One game enemy team had no CW and my team had 3. We controlled all 3 points for 90% of the game. Yet people are upset about Rogues (The only dps class in game) cause they hit hard.... I don't get it
I found the CW to have less survivability than the rogue, playing both in pvp. I would not disagree that the wizard has lots of utility. I would like to see the rogues survival brought down a notch. OR the GWF survival brought up a notch. I am not sure what exactly to change on the CW. I am by no means saying the CW shouldn't be looked at but I would hate to see ANY class get nerfed for PVE. If they make changes it would be nice if they could separate the two but that is highly doubtful.
Just to be clear, I don't want to see a nerf to Tr in pve at all, or necessarily on pvp either, but in a pvp setting i think each class should be just as difficult to defeat as another, where-ever the "nerfs" need to fall for that to happen.
Comments
The "no-aim low-intelligence" rogue is how I felt when I used it. Just hold down a button for four seconds and watch the hit points evaporate. Versus the dance were you often had to trick your opponent to get off your good attacks.
Besides, it isn't like they haven't removed iconic abilities that were in the promotional vids before. Just look at the GWF.
when you rech lvl 60 and pvp then say something .
I play on picking that class in headstart nothing wrong with it.
I agree with malkavianite. PVP and PVE should have nothing to do with each other. Nerfing character skills because you think they have an unfair advantage in PVP is ridiculous.
I think I made it fairly clear that it may not scale well. It does scale incredibly well up to level 39.
Removed or have the damage reduced. It is the strongest ranged at will and very well may be the strongest ranged attack in the game currently including encounter and daily powers.
You were already dead, because you were running away from a rogue. QQ more.
To top that D&D isn't suppose to be BALANCED for PVP. Have any of you cry babies ever ACTUALLY PLAYED D&D? Yanno the game where one failed save vs a wizard means you DIE?
I can appreciate your reference to table top gaming. It has its own kind of greatness to it. However, you can understand how translating that over into an online game isn't really 100% feasible.
If we had Harry and Ron going around one shotting everything, well everyone would be playing Harry and Ron.
Check this out for more info regarding that:-
http://youtu.be/mYJGmYsHCUg
The range attack of the rogue can only be used 10 times until it recharges and the recharge is slooowwwww
Hrmm, I thought the point in Beta was to discuss issues like this before the game is released... oh wait, it is.
Ok, sticking with the PvE only hypothetical, why does it matter if it's the strongest ranged at-will? The TR is a striker role, so they're meant to be doing the most damage.
If it's the strongest ranged attack period, including encounter and daily attacks, then yeah something is probably a bit off there. But I haven't seen anyone give any real proof of that claim yet.
If the skill isn't balanced in PvE either (on the assumption that it is indeed overpowered in PvP), then I'll join you in your cries for a nerf, but everything I've read so far makes it sound like those arguing for a nerf to Cloud of Steel are doing so based on their experience with it in PvP. And, as I've stated previously, I find it neither wise nor fair to be balancing PvP and PvE together.
A) CW is the strongest PvP class by far and nobody is crying for nerfs
C) rogue in high level PvP is not nearly as good (in comparison to other classes) as whiners make it out to be
Some of the best rogues are ranged. They are strikers. They do nothing but DPS. Sounds like they're WAI.
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
On its own the CW isn't really super strong, but when you get 2+ of them in a match they feed off of each other and get much stronger. I've made a small suggestion on CWs of allowing them only 2 blinks per stamina bar vs. the 3 they have currently. I'm not sure why they were given 3 instead of 2 like the other classes.
One game enemy team had no CW and my team had 3. We controlled all 3 points for 90% of the game. Yet people are upset about Rogues (The only dps class in game) cause they hit hard.... I don't get it
Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock = balance = Guardian, Wizard, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric?