Nerf mages, they have better crowd control that other classes.
The rogue's role is dps. The character is fine.
The TR has some pretty awesome cc as well, in solo play at least it seemed more powerful than the CW cc- for example that shadow ability seemed to act like a 10 sec confusion spell letting me take out mobs with ease.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
I played all the toons, easiest to survive was the cleric. Good mix, heals and steady dps.
Play one up to the 40's. That's certainly not the case in solo content toward the last 25 or so levels. Heals don't hit hard enough to even bother with HW or another heal skill. The one power that healed well (forgemaster's flame) was bugged and wasn't affected by the -75% self-healing debuff.
I didn't get into a 40's instance, but for the most part, it's spec down the middle talent tree, spam FF or POD, throw down a Hallowed Ground. The other trees were non-viable (confirmed by a number of high-level clerics in-game).
I think that the problem is simply that the trickster rogue is the only GOOD class so far. By which I mean - it's the only class (maybe besides control wizards) that seem to have all the major combat mechanic problems worked out and feels functional through all solo combat.
Rogue is a striker. Cleric is a leader. Mage is a controller. Fighter is a defender. Compairing dps is an improper way to evaluate the 4 classes. I could just as easily post that a rogue is underpowered at healing while the cleric is overpowered. Each class has a role. Compairing dps, healing, damage mitigation, and crowd control can lead to erronious conclusions.
Enjoy the type of character you want to play. Just be careful when making compairisons.
I totally disagree. If a class isnt designed to compete with the other classes in anything but healing (and its bad dps) its a broken class.
ALL classes MUST be shaped around having good dps.
"Your story may not last forever; but it will exist forever"
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think that the problem is simply that the trickster rogue is the only GOOD class so far. By which I mean - it's the only class (maybe besides control wizards) that seem to have all the major combat mechanic problems worked out and feels functional through all solo combat.
The GWF is functional through all solo combat as well. Though many hate the first 20 levels.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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shphgrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
rogues are good at what they do, dps.
the reason that they seem OP is because the other classes are /meh at what they are supposed to do.
tanks are mediocre at best, they can keep aggro on one target alright but with multiple adds in almost all of their fights it is almost impossible to aggro them all.
then comes into play the control wizard, again his control this beta was much higher and much more functional than the previous and there were good results. some fine tuning though is needed imo, not too much more control but.. something, maybe change the type of it to stronger cc in some spells or something.
the main power level differance is cleric.
Mythic has stated that they don;t want them to be heal bots, and this is apparent, their heals are crappy as a main source of healing. they do wonders in maintenance healing, forgemasters flame, seal and etc, but still, single target healing is best left to pots.
mythic's stance is that they don't want them to be pure healers but want them to be more active and etc, i get that. No, scratch that i LIKE that. But the problem is that clerics don't have enough/good abilities to be LEADER (i.e. support). they have abilities that equal a single hot in other games, the dps of healers in other games, and the buffs of healers in other games.
some adjustments would be to give a BIG beneficial effect in most of our utility skills, like say: healing word (the crappy hot) has a free build in 10-20% regeneration (the stat) buff on it's target. or something along those lines.
so far, using some paragon paths you can give 10% DR, and using a different path something like 5%DR +5%damage buff without full uptime... and that's it.
so, give the cleric some(not 1, more like 4-5 restricted by path) real LEADER abilities, like useful buffs that cam make the group say: i wish that we had x buff on us or else in a group/raid enviroment they become redundant.
so i've started playing devoted Cleric.. wasn't that difficult to play.. although getting mobs killed was quite tricky, since i had to heavily rely on CC's.. when playing cleric i initially went full power and only choose items that would raise my power.. it didn't work out.. anyways... i got to lvl 22 before i started a new class..
i started a trickster rogue.. halfling.. very fun class to play.. buuut.. waaaay too overpowered.. crit over 1k.. and avg dmg was around 300-500.. at lvl 11-12... that's way more than my cleric at lvl 20+.. dunno if it was just my trickster rogue that got waaay too lucky on items,.. or my cleric that was unfortunate with items.. either way.. imho.. way to much of a difference...
on a sidenote.. being a healer in dungeons is HARD!!.. with no targeting system... make skills heal the ones with lowest? or chain heals that heals the lowest and then jumps to the 2nd lowest.. also dunno if guardian fighters have lots of taunts but it most certanly felt like i as a cleric was the tank... or just me being unfortunate and grouped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tanks.. dunno..
just my opinions.. correct me i'f i'm wrong.. and please don't flame.. ^^
I played a cleric as my first character and nearly stopped playing the game altogether based on my impression. The combat felt slow and stiff, heals are different from every other MMO I've played (all of which I've played healing classes), and I felt I was more melee than anything because I simply couldn't keep mobs off me.
I decided to try a different class before I give up on a game that hasn't even launched yet, and rolled a rogue (halfling as well ^_^) and man, what a world of difference. Combat feels quicker and more streamlined. It feels like Guild Wars 2 combat, which is what I was expecting. The cleric was a big disappointment to me, and this will be the first game where my main is a DPS class. Even if they nerf damage to the ground, I would still play one because I thoroughly enjoyed playing regardless of the numbers I was putting out.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
so, give the cleric some(not 1, more like 4-5 restricted by path) real LEADER abilities, like useful buffs that cam make the group say: i wish that we had x buff on us or else in a group/raid enviroment they become redundant.
I definitely felt like the shortest straw in the stack when grouping as a cleric. Most people would self-heal with pots because my heals couldn't be relied on, nor could my damage. I may as well have been 10 levels lower than the rest of group, because that's how I felt my contribution to the group was.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Believe me, if you aren't careful, you will be 2-shotted to death. The Trickster Rogue can do amazing DPS, with the trade-off being survivability. Without a compagnion you really have to be very careful and quick. I think it is a good deal. A good fighter should be able to outlast a rogue, that's how it is supposed to work, and it does.
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2013
A cleric doesnt heal anywhere near as good as a rogue can DPS
A guardian doesnt last anywhere near as long as a rogue can do DPS, a rogue can easily burst through a guardians mitigation before he outlasts the rogue4
A control wizards control is actually really weak and on part with the Clerics Control, and a control wizard does not control anywhere near as good as a Rogue can DPS
No one does their job nearly as good as the rogue, hence why they are overtuned, give my healer my 80% heal or tone down rogues damage, rogue is not the only DPS class in the game and if you say they have low survivability you dont know how to play one
Like I said, give CW 20 seconds sleeps, give clerics actuall heals that are on par with potions and not useless 40 point heals, and give guardians actuall aggro and mitigation tools other than a crappy shield mechanic that breaks from 2 seconds of a rogue attacking it
its only fair
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flakelessMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i started a trickster rogue.. halfling.. very fun class to play.. buuut.. waaaay too overpowered.. crit over 1k.. and avg dmg was around 300-500.. at lvl 11-12... that's way more than my cleric at lvl 20+.. dunno if it was just my trickster rogue that got waaay too lucky on items,.. or my cleric that was unfortunate with items.. either way.. imho.. way to much of a difference...
on a sidenote.. being a healer in dungeons is HARD!!.. with no targeting system... make skills heal the ones with lowest? or chain heals that heals the lowest and then jumps to the 2nd lowest.. also dunno if guardian fighters have lots of taunts but it most certanly felt like i as a cleric was the tank... or just me being unfortunate and grouped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tanks.. dunno..
Yeah- you can't really compare a support class's damage with a dps class's, of course it's going to look OP.
I played it last weekend, lower levels they're pretty strong but as you get higher it gets harder. But I don't think we should be able to auto attack while being stealthed, I think that's kind of an overkill. If you set it up right you can refresh your stealth meter twice, and if you have the right feats your stealth already lasts 20% longer. Either that or dealing damage while being in stealth should lower your meter some.
Beta is beta, imbalance is expected, ESPECIALLY when it comes to rogues, who almost always fall in the 'best at single target damage' category, which always translates into 'PvP superstars' Everyone brings something to the table but nobody should bring the table.
I love how people fail to understand the rogue class. They are supposed to be the highest dmg in 1 vs 1 combat, no and-if or buts...it's that simple. A rogue is squishy and uses stealth/surprise attacks to do burst damage. There is no nerf required on dmg. What I suggested in another thread however is to reduce the amt of dmg that the rogue can take, that being said I did not get to higher levels where perhaps mobs hit harder.
\edited for typos
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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peter425Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited March 2013
Let all role as TR in Open Beta... no more OP class..
A rogue is very powerful when used tactically. If you wait till all your resources are ready, then you can do a lot of damage in a short time. If you get jumped at the end of a fight or you're fighting something that doesn't die before all your resources are consumed, then it's a lot of fancy dancing and dodging and smashing the potion button till something comes off cooldown.
You can solo wipe out a shock trooper devil at helm's hold in like 20 seconds, but then almost die fighting the pack of imps that tagged you the second your stealth dropped.
A cleric doesnt heal anywhere near as good as a rogue can DPS
A guardian doesnt last anywhere near as long as a rogue can do DPS, a rogue can easily burst through a guardians mitigation before he outlasts the rogue4
A control wizards control is actually really weak and on part with the Clerics Control, and a control wizard does not control anywhere near as good as a Rogue can DPS
No one does their job nearly as good as the rogue, hence why they are overtuned, give my healer my 80% heal or tone down rogues damage, rogue is not the only DPS class in the game and if you say they have low survivability you dont know how to play one
Like I said, give CW 20 seconds sleeps, give clerics actuall heals that are on par with potions and not useless 40 point heals, and give guardians actuall aggro and mitigation tools other than a crappy shield mechanic that breaks from 2 seconds of a rogue attacking it
its only fair
1) No Cleric in any decent game will heal as much as a DPS class can dish out damage. The only exception would be games where TTK for players be extremely short. (Like a twitch shooter...which would sort of kills the purpose of having a healer.)
That would make for a very boring game, particularly in PvP. (Me can just outheal you Trololololol.)
2) GF be made for tanking large slow single hits, not the multiple small hits of the Rogue. No other class can tank Infinite damage strikes. (You only need a sliver of guard bar to block a single hit regardless of how strong that hit is.) & guess what? Shield bar gets regenerated by a small amount when you use the right click At Will ability. (Shield bash)
3) CW has an annoying force choke (basically a stun) + Freeze + push.
Clerics only has a root + push (costs divinity to push).
Clerics also have heals on par with potions. Ever see that odd debuff on a target when the cleric shoots that tiny ball of light? Try having a damaged Rogue or CW hit that target, HP will recover quickly.
The problem is that the Cleric has no real heal for itself while everything aggros for the Cleric.
Me suggest you learn basic game balance and game mechanics before making comments.
I know that it sucks to no longer get gear to sell from the Dungeon Delve chest but it was truly overpowered.
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magrynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2013
The rogue is neither over powered or the cleric underpowered. I concur that past 30 the classes start balancing out. I soloed my halfling trickster rogue Ravenclaw from birth to level 50 soloing and really struggled towards the end with some bosses. I also got my cleric to lvl 45 and found the cleric came into his own after 30, i accepted the fact that the healer was not going to match the rogue with damage at creation. i moved on and worked out the approach needed to survive and be viable. As I see it each class if played skilfully will do just fine. Start looking at playing skills and what each build brings to the table. I see it as simple as this; the healer heals, and dodge the obvious agro casting spells in combat will bring, the GWF is the mass killer, he's only viable if there is a Tank pulling agro away from him. played properly the GWF is awesome. The GF's main roll is tank...every healer or GWF should have one. The trickster is the trap smith and the main contributor in reducing Boss health bars. Without damage output from the rogue most bosses would take hell of a lot longer to drop and devastate groups. The Control Wizard speaks for it self, playing with a few Wizards over the last weekend I saw some very impressive gameplay. A good CW is worth his weight in gold, the wizards I played with did not put out killer AoE but definitely rendered the most of the mobs and bosses as sitting targets for the GWF to come in and destroy.
In summary lets try not to go down the Nerf path just yet, there is a level of experience to be acquired and many months of game play before we have a real view of the viability of classes/races.
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philbe63Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
This is the first game where I love the way the Rogue plays. It's not overpowered IMO, having the ability to walk past an entire dungeon is overpowered (WoW cough cough). In this game I have to think about what I'm going to do and how. I feel like an active participant of the team not just a button mashing DPSer who just has to make sure I keep behind the boss.
Don't change anything about the Rogues...I love them.
Now as for the Clerics, well I have never actually played one in any iteration on any game because I feel it's the hardest job in the whole world. I respect and admire those that do and always make it my business to help them when stuff is going down. Always make nice with the healer!!! From what I'm gathering the biggest issue for Clerics is the aggro (which I understand is being addressed).
First, I realize that if we haven't played a class to higher lvls then we can't really comment on how effecitve the class really is. I mean we aren't going to be at low to mid lvl for more than a few days. So it would probably be good to at least what lvl range we are referring to when making comments.
As for GWF, I played mine to lvl 25 and in comparison to the TRogue at the same lvl (I played to 35). I just noticed that I could not play them the same way. They both seemed comparable at the corresponding lvls just that the GWF took more damage if I tried to maxamize my AoE damage. But they I had to play them differently. I could not approach an instnace as a GWF the same way as I would on the TRogue. Once I realized that I felt they were both equally competent.
Example: against 1 Veteran NPC + 3 Regular NPC's: (I did not use the Shadow Swap skill for rogue).
TRogue - Take out Veteran then pick off the 3 Regulars. On a GWF - Jump in take out the 3 Regulars then the Veteran.
I'm not going to speak to the CW, GF or DC as I never got them above lvls 20 and 10. But I do know that they had to be played differently.
So I guess one of the points I'm trying to make is that if you are comparing them, please be sure that you did take the time to figure out the playstyle for the class you feel is underpowered.
i started a trickster rogue.. halfling.. very fun class to play.. buuut.. waaaay too overpowered.. crit over 1k.. and avg dmg was around 300-500.. at lvl 11-12... that's way more than my cleric at lvl 20+.. dunno if it was just my trickster rogue that got waaay too lucky on items,.. or my cleric that was unfortunate with items.. either way.. imho.. way to much of a difference...
I can appreciate your feelings of Cleric DPS inferiority but honestly it isn't that the Rogue is OP, it is that the other classes
1. have roles that are different from pure DPS
2. are not as well tuned for their Roles as the Rogue.
The D&D 4e rules that Neverwinter is based off has clearly defined roles that classes fall into. The Rogue is a Striker Role. The purpose of that role is to deal heavy damage.
The other roles are
Leader (buff / debuff / healing ): Devoted Cleric
Defender (protects other members of the party from Agro): Guardian Fighter
Controller (uses various forms of CC to help control the battle and make it more manageable) Controller Wizard.
The Great Weapon Fighter is also a Striker class, but they are focused on AOE damage where the Rogue is focused on single target damage. The GWF actually does pretty solid AOE if used properly, but of course since they do good AOE their single target damage must be lower.
The Striker and Defender roles are the easiest to design because they are the most straight forward. The other roles are more complicated because they have more tasks they must accomplish. The Leader must buff and debuff sufficiently to perform its role while also doing enough DPS to not be totally useless solo. The Controller must have sufficient CC to control the battle without doing so much damage that it is utterly invulnerable to harm.
There have been many comments by the Devs that the Cleric especially is undergoing a lot of tweaking and is not yet where it ultimately will be. With that said, bear in mind that you are not playing a Striker Class. If you want heavy damage, Play a Striker. Remember that after launch, other classes will be released including Striker Wizards and Warriors. If that is what you want to play, just be patient.
-Rov
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jasco9Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
1 - we are in closed beta.
2 - things can change.
3 - in open beta, things can change.
4 - after release, things can change.
5 - during beta, things have already changed.
Trickster Rogues are fine as-is (opinion) and clerics are not so useful according to the style of many current MMOs, but that doesn't mean that NWO clerics should do what every other MMO cleric does. The DC is trying to do something a little different (support heals) and I would say it does take a slight shift in the mindset of other MMO healers to play well, but that is how the class has been crafted. The design is intentional, rationalised by the mighty minds of Cryptic and has been tested through Alpha, BW1-3 and is still being refined. If you don't like the current cleric template, wait for another one or try a different class.
Just because some people cannot play to the strengths of a class, does not mean the class is at fault.
Just because one class that is fit-for-purpose at DPS can out-damage a class built for support, does not mean the DPS is unbalanced.
Envy over big numbers is at the heart of the OP. If you want big numbers then choose a class that can give you big numbers. If you want to provide support and control, then choose the appropriate class. Learn from others, learn from your own experience, learn from the many tutes on youtube.
Please do not start waving the nerf-stick around without taking the current context into consideration.
Summary: We are in beta and things can change. Play to the strengths of a class and if you are not happy, find something else to do that makes you happy.
We've isolated some issues with the Trickster Rogue being overpowered in specific cases, and are making changes to certain powers. Thanks for all of your feedback!
We've isolated some issues with the Trickster Rogue being overpowered in specific cases, and are making changes to certain powers. Thanks for all of your feedback!
Any way we can get some more info as to what was changed? Was damage lowered or was it survivability change or what?
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koreannusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
Comments
The TR was a powerhouse, and although his dps is high, i feel its where it should be, that said i think he needs to be squishier like the CW.
IMO.
The TR has some pretty awesome cc as well, in solo play at least it seemed more powerful than the CW cc- for example that shadow ability seemed to act like a 10 sec confusion spell letting me take out mobs with ease.
Play one up to the 40's. That's certainly not the case in solo content toward the last 25 or so levels. Heals don't hit hard enough to even bother with HW or another heal skill. The one power that healed well (forgemaster's flame) was bugged and wasn't affected by the -75% self-healing debuff.
I didn't get into a 40's instance, but for the most part, it's spec down the middle talent tree, spam FF or POD, throw down a Hallowed Ground. The other trees were non-viable (confirmed by a number of high-level clerics in-game).
I totally disagree. If a class isnt designed to compete with the other classes in anything but healing (and its bad dps) its a broken class.
ALL classes MUST be shaped around having good dps.
The GWF is functional through all solo combat as well. Though many hate the first 20 levels.
the reason that they seem OP is because the other classes are /meh at what they are supposed to do.
tanks are mediocre at best, they can keep aggro on one target alright but with multiple adds in almost all of their fights it is almost impossible to aggro them all.
then comes into play the control wizard, again his control this beta was much higher and much more functional than the previous and there were good results. some fine tuning though is needed imo, not too much more control but.. something, maybe change the type of it to stronger cc in some spells or something.
the main power level differance is cleric.
Mythic has stated that they don;t want them to be heal bots, and this is apparent, their heals are crappy as a main source of healing. they do wonders in maintenance healing, forgemasters flame, seal and etc, but still, single target healing is best left to pots.
mythic's stance is that they don't want them to be pure healers but want them to be more active and etc, i get that. No, scratch that i LIKE that. But the problem is that clerics don't have enough/good abilities to be LEADER (i.e. support). they have abilities that equal a single hot in other games, the dps of healers in other games, and the buffs of healers in other games.
some adjustments would be to give a BIG beneficial effect in most of our utility skills, like say: healing word (the crappy hot) has a free build in 10-20% regeneration (the stat) buff on it's target. or something along those lines.
so far, using some paragon paths you can give 10% DR, and using a different path something like 5%DR +5%damage buff without full uptime... and that's it.
so, give the cleric some(not 1, more like 4-5 restricted by path) real LEADER abilities, like useful buffs that cam make the group say: i wish that we had x buff on us or else in a group/raid enviroment they become redundant.
I played a cleric as my first character and nearly stopped playing the game altogether based on my impression. The combat felt slow and stiff, heals are different from every other MMO I've played (all of which I've played healing classes), and I felt I was more melee than anything because I simply couldn't keep mobs off me.
I decided to try a different class before I give up on a game that hasn't even launched yet, and rolled a rogue (halfling as well ^_^) and man, what a world of difference. Combat feels quicker and more streamlined. It feels like Guild Wars 2 combat, which is what I was expecting. The cleric was a big disappointment to me, and this will be the first game where my main is a DPS class. Even if they nerf damage to the ground, I would still play one because I thoroughly enjoyed playing regardless of the numbers I was putting out.
I definitely felt like the shortest straw in the stack when grouping as a cleric. Most people would self-heal with pots because my heals couldn't be relied on, nor could my damage. I may as well have been 10 levels lower than the rest of group, because that's how I felt my contribution to the group was.
A guardian doesnt last anywhere near as long as a rogue can do DPS, a rogue can easily burst through a guardians mitigation before he outlasts the rogue4
A control wizards control is actually really weak and on part with the Clerics Control, and a control wizard does not control anywhere near as good as a Rogue can DPS
No one does their job nearly as good as the rogue, hence why they are overtuned, give my healer my 80% heal or tone down rogues damage, rogue is not the only DPS class in the game and if you say they have low survivability you dont know how to play one
Like I said, give CW 20 seconds sleeps, give clerics actuall heals that are on par with potions and not useless 40 point heals, and give guardians actuall aggro and mitigation tools other than a crappy shield mechanic that breaks from 2 seconds of a rogue attacking it
its only fair
Yeah- you can't really compare a support class's damage with a dps class's, of course it's going to look OP.
I played it last weekend, lower levels they're pretty strong but as you get higher it gets harder. But I don't think we should be able to auto attack while being stealthed, I think that's kind of an overkill. If you set it up right you can refresh your stealth meter twice, and if you have the right feats your stealth already lasts 20% longer. Either that or dealing damage while being in stealth should lower your meter some.
\edited for typos
All classes are overpowered vs the enemy (assuming argo/heal corrections).
im cw
You can solo wipe out a shock trooper devil at helm's hold in like 20 seconds, but then almost die fighting the pack of imps that tagged you the second your stealth dropped.
1) No Cleric in any decent game will heal as much as a DPS class can dish out damage. The only exception would be games where TTK for players be extremely short. (Like a twitch shooter...which would sort of kills the purpose of having a healer.)
That would make for a very boring game, particularly in PvP. (Me can just outheal you Trololololol.)
2) GF be made for tanking large slow single hits, not the multiple small hits of the Rogue. No other class can tank Infinite damage strikes. (You only need a sliver of guard bar to block a single hit regardless of how strong that hit is.) & guess what? Shield bar gets regenerated by a small amount when you use the right click At Will ability. (Shield bash)
3) CW has an annoying force choke (basically a stun) + Freeze + push.
Clerics only has a root + push (costs divinity to push).
Clerics also have heals on par with potions. Ever see that odd debuff on a target when the cleric shoots that tiny ball of light? Try having a damaged Rogue or CW hit that target, HP will recover quickly.
The problem is that the Cleric has no real heal for itself while everything aggros for the Cleric.
Me suggest you learn basic game balance and game mechanics before making comments.
In summary lets try not to go down the Nerf path just yet, there is a level of experience to be acquired and many months of game play before we have a real view of the viability of classes/races.
Don't change anything about the Rogues...I love them.
Now as for the Clerics, well I have never actually played one in any iteration on any game because I feel it's the hardest job in the whole world. I respect and admire those that do and always make it my business to help them when stuff is going down. Always make nice with the healer!!! From what I'm gathering the biggest issue for Clerics is the aggro (which I understand is being addressed).
As for GWF, I played mine to lvl 25 and in comparison to the TRogue at the same lvl (I played to 35). I just noticed that I could not play them the same way. They both seemed comparable at the corresponding lvls just that the GWF took more damage if I tried to maxamize my AoE damage. But they I had to play them differently. I could not approach an instnace as a GWF the same way as I would on the TRogue. Once I realized that I felt they were both equally competent.
Example: against 1 Veteran NPC + 3 Regular NPC's: (I did not use the Shadow Swap skill for rogue).
TRogue - Take out Veteran then pick off the 3 Regulars. On a GWF - Jump in take out the 3 Regulars then the Veteran.
I'm not going to speak to the CW, GF or DC as I never got them above lvls 20 and 10. But I do know that they had to be played differently.
So I guess one of the points I'm trying to make is that if you are comparing them, please be sure that you did take the time to figure out the playstyle for the class you feel is underpowered.
Holy Christ.. Pls Nerf..
I can appreciate your feelings of Cleric DPS inferiority but honestly it isn't that the Rogue is OP, it is that the other classes
1. have roles that are different from pure DPS
2. are not as well tuned for their Roles as the Rogue.
The D&D 4e rules that Neverwinter is based off has clearly defined roles that classes fall into. The Rogue is a Striker Role. The purpose of that role is to deal heavy damage.
The other roles are
Leader (buff / debuff / healing ): Devoted Cleric
Defender (protects other members of the party from Agro): Guardian Fighter
Controller (uses various forms of CC to help control the battle and make it more manageable) Controller Wizard.
The Great Weapon Fighter is also a Striker class, but they are focused on AOE damage where the Rogue is focused on single target damage. The GWF actually does pretty solid AOE if used properly, but of course since they do good AOE their single target damage must be lower.
The Striker and Defender roles are the easiest to design because they are the most straight forward. The other roles are more complicated because they have more tasks they must accomplish. The Leader must buff and debuff sufficiently to perform its role while also doing enough DPS to not be totally useless solo. The Controller must have sufficient CC to control the battle without doing so much damage that it is utterly invulnerable to harm.
There have been many comments by the Devs that the Cleric especially is undergoing a lot of tweaking and is not yet where it ultimately will be. With that said, bear in mind that you are not playing a Striker Class. If you want heavy damage, Play a Striker. Remember that after launch, other classes will be released including Striker Wizards and Warriors. If that is what you want to play, just be patient.
-Rov
2 - things can change.
3 - in open beta, things can change.
4 - after release, things can change.
5 - during beta, things have already changed.
Trickster Rogues are fine as-is (opinion) and clerics are not so useful according to the style of many current MMOs, but that doesn't mean that NWO clerics should do what every other MMO cleric does. The DC is trying to do something a little different (support heals) and I would say it does take a slight shift in the mindset of other MMO healers to play well, but that is how the class has been crafted. The design is intentional, rationalised by the mighty minds of Cryptic and has been tested through Alpha, BW1-3 and is still being refined. If you don't like the current cleric template, wait for another one or try a different class.
Just because some people cannot play to the strengths of a class, does not mean the class is at fault.
Just because one class that is fit-for-purpose at DPS can out-damage a class built for support, does not mean the DPS is unbalanced.
Envy over big numbers is at the heart of the OP. If you want big numbers then choose a class that can give you big numbers. If you want to provide support and control, then choose the appropriate class. Learn from others, learn from your own experience, learn from the many tutes on youtube.
Please do not start waving the nerf-stick around without taking the current context into consideration.
Summary: We are in beta and things can change. Play to the strengths of a class and if you are not happy, find something else to do that makes you happy.
- Jasc
We've isolated some issues with the Trickster Rogue being overpowered in specific cases, and are making changes to certain powers. Thanks for all of your feedback!