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IMHO Trickster Rogue Way too Overpowered..
sinorai
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
so i've started playing devoted Cleric.. wasn't that difficult to play.. although getting mobs killed was quite tricky, since i had to heavily rely on CC's.. when playing cleric i initially went full power and only choose items that would raise my power.. it didn't work out.. anyways... i got to lvl 22 before i started a new class..
i started a trickster rogue.. halfling.. very fun class to play.. buuut.. waaaay too overpowered.. crit over 1k.. and avg dmg was around 300-500.. at lvl 11-12... that's way more than my cleric at lvl 20+.. dunno if it was just my trickster rogue that got waaay too lucky on items,.. or my cleric that was unfortunate with items.. either way.. imho.. way to much of a difference...
on a sidenote.. being a healer in dungeons is HARD!!.. with no targeting system... make skills heal the ones with lowest? or chain heals that heals the lowest and then jumps to the 2nd lowest.. also dunno if guardian fighters have lots of taunts but it most certanly felt like i as a cleric was the tank... or just me being unfortunate and grouped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tanks.. dunno..
just my opinions.. correct me i'f i'm wrong.. and please don't flame.. ^^
i started a trickster rogue.. halfling.. very fun class to play.. buuut.. waaaay too overpowered.. crit over 1k.. and avg dmg was around 300-500.. at lvl 11-12... that's way more than my cleric at lvl 20+.. dunno if it was just my trickster rogue that got waaay too lucky on items,.. or my cleric that was unfortunate with items.. either way.. imho.. way to much of a difference...
on a sidenote.. being a healer in dungeons is HARD!!.. with no targeting system... make skills heal the ones with lowest? or chain heals that heals the lowest and then jumps to the 2nd lowest.. also dunno if guardian fighters have lots of taunts but it most certanly felt like i as a cleric was the tank... or just me being unfortunate and grouped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tanks.. dunno..
just my opinions.. correct me i'f i'm wrong.. and please don't flame.. ^^
Post edited by sinorai on
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Rogues are fantastic in short fights where they can utilize stealth heavily. On tougher mobs where stealth isn't up a lot, they become very fragile. They can suffer a bit when there's a lot of mobs, too. This starts happening around level 25 (Neverdeath Graveyard had some very challenging fights for me).
Clerics have better AOE and utility. I'm hoping they address the threat and self-healing issues introduced this beta.
I think direct healing is supposed to be hard. That's why Clerics have so many secondary healing effects. Astral Seal is awesome, as is Divinity: Forgemaster's Flame. The cleric is meant to reduce the effect of regular damage, while burst damage is meant to be managed by avoiding it and/or drinking potions when needed.
in the end i think you are misreading combat log.
Also, sometimes when you see a huge number, it's the total combined damage you've done to that mob in your current chain - pretty sure rogues attack faster than clerics, too.
Rogue is by far the strongest DPS class right now, without question... Leveling was infinitely easier and faster on my rogue. I thinK i was level 5 and finished with the first zone and first instance with only 7 minutes played... It was ridiculous... I made a separate thread about this but to sum balance up right now:
Rogue's damage is too high and its survivabiltiy is actually arguably better than Control Wizard or GWF. I would say GWF has slightly more survivability and CW has slightly less. Damage output on the rogue, however, is without a doubt higher than GWF and CW. Bait and switch provides A TON of survivability particularly at lower levels, and once you get stealth you become virtually unkillable. This doesn't change at higher levels according to the higher level rogues I've talked to. Stealth is just extremely strong and with the right abilities can be maintained very easily.
Great weapons fighter should be the standard for balance in my opinion as it felt the most balanced to play. I think rogue really needs a damage reduction on its at will ability.
Control Wizard is the weakest DPS class in my opinion. The raw damage of the CW is the lowest of the three classes and it also has the lowest survivability in my opinion. CW CC is still quite weak, dazing strike is an infinitely better ability than any CC the CW has, the durations are just too low for it to compensate for the low DPS of the class. That said, CW is already a strong PvP class so CC durations should not be increased much in my opinion if at all.
In short these are the changes I think this game needs:
Rogue: Nerf the melee at-will abilities damage by 15% to start with and see how it plays. It's ok for rogues to have high burst from dailies and encounters, I think rogue is supposed to be a bursty class, but the auto attack damage is currently way too high and gives the rogue ridiculous sustained DPS. Couple this with the fact that you can use at-wills while in stealth and you get an insanely strong class.
Control Wizard: Buff damage across the board on all abilities by 15-20% and see how it plays. Keep CC durations more or less where they are at, perhaps some small buffs could be used on some abilities. Nerf the dodge mechanic so that it takes 50% of stamina to blink. CW's can kite melee classes too easily right now because blink can be used I think 4 times before running out of stamina, couple that with the CC and even with multiple gap closers for encounter abilities melee classes won't be able to keep up.
GWF: Keep it the way it is. Possibly reduce the stamina cost of sprinting slightly.
Enjoy the type of character you want to play. Just be careful when making compairisons.
rogue is the only dps class so far so ya it's supposed to do the best dps derp.
I have a level 40 rouge and I can tell you that Bait & Switch is useless when there are 5+ mobs on it, literally lasts 1 second. The usage of stealth is as you said overpowered in pve but however, when you want to go pvp, pretty much 90% of the skill points you've invested will be required to be changed because stealth is nearly completely useless in pvp.. switching those abilities would cost a fortune..
if rogues try to tank they end up dead...
is this serious, comparing a cleric to a rogue?
They're supposed to be good at different things,
the rogue good at damage and the cleric good at support
Rogues wouldn't be a dps class if they couldn't do high damage, that's the whole point
The problem here is not the rogue but the Cleric, they which cant do their healing jobs, not to mention other classes like GF who cant do their aggro jobs (specialy when a cleric is on the party) and CW that cant CC/control the mobs as it should(thought they were finaly buffed this BW).
So if you see, the Rogue isnt OP, the other classes are just too **** weak on their jobs.
thats the sad part...Clerics CANT heal for sht..
Comparison to the cleric isn't really good right now because clerics are full on broken bad.
TR felt like "Faceroll to Win" compared to CW. Bait and Switch alone was almost always enough to let me get my cleric companion back on her feet if she had gone down. And if she was standing, I had little to worry about since either she or the shadow clone was taking the hits instead of me (while letting me deal Combat Advantage damage). While that may change with some of the level 40-50 stuff, I don't think the TR is anywhere near as fragile as the CW. They have aproximately the same HP from what I could tell and the TR has better Deflect (from Dex and Feats) which also increases survivability.
One thing I did notice was an unlisted target cap on several CW encounter powers, seemed to be a general max 5 targets for those not in the Mastery slot. On the other hand, my CW could usually fire off a daily at the start of a battle with random trash mobs and have the AP bar ready again before the last enemy dropped without actively trying to do so (other than cast the Steal Time encounter power).
TR could probably use a minor nerf to AoE damage, but other than that I have no simple solutions to make the classes feel more balanced in solo/teams when considering durability and damage potential (both single target and AoE).
They may be able to do a ton of damage to single targets, but their speed and ability to switch targets on the fly means they're just as good when it comes to doing splash damage. Even some of their "single target" moves hit multiple mobs.
sure, they should do high single target damage, but not that much, if you went by this logic give my cleric a 20,000 point heal because im a healer, make my guardian fighter have 500,000 health at level 1 because im a tank, their has to be limits
for the health of the game, tone their damage down, the other classes feel right but rogue feels overtuned
That was the reason for my post on the rogue being the only striker. But, since you brought up a good point, lets take it through the other classes:
Nerf clerics, they heal better than any other class
Nerf fighters, they mitigate damage better than any other class
Nerf mages, they have better crowd control that other classes.
My point is, each of the 4 classes have strengths and weaknesses. Comparing them against a single criteria can only lead to erroneous conclusions.
The rogue's role is dps. The character is fine.
Against boss fights, stealth was king as long as your stealth chain was up. If I missed and lost stealth, I found myself drinking pots like a bum drink booze until I could try my chains again and go stealth.
My point is, they do a lot of damage, but they take a lot of damage in return as well. The changes to the cleric this past beta is a whole other matter.
That was my experiance over the beta weekend - didnt bother with bait and switch just watched my pot timer and reveled in challenge.
Looking at the battle results of a PVP match I do pretty good. Like in the dungeon I get the highest damage, but I'm also the squishiest. In a toe-to-toe fight with a fighter the fighter is going to whittle me down while I'm having trouble breaking through his armor (good thing I don't go toe-to-toe when I can just throw daggers or hit him in the back), Clerics have the next best defense and if people are smart they'll make sure annoying little rogues are swatted away from him like mosquitoes in a cook off (and the Cleric is the chef), and Wizards...well I don't talking about Wizards (**** dirty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> making me into a humanoid pinata. I'M NOT FULL OF CANDY, ******).
So in short Rogues are not over powered. Hell, Trickster Rogues aren't even the heaviest damage dealing rogue. Wait till they add Brawny Rogues.
EDIT: I find it funny that "****" is censored but not "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>". Also apparently "*******" is censored.