I want to know why people support a 200 dollar price tag for a virtual items pack.
To me it makes no sense.
I know it's not mandatory and optional, but it begs the question of "if this is what is available right now, what will we be seeing in the future"?
In what way?
Are you worried that they will start selling things that are mandatory for the game because the have a $200 founders pack?
I mean, Im thinking about the $60 version, and I would not pay $200, but Im grateful to all thoes Heroes of the North who did. They are funding most of my fun.
Competing with other customers? How am I competing? The game will generate more fun, it's not like I'm going to run out of fun because somebody used it all up.
i dont think 200$ is much since thet spider mount and panther companion are probably same quality as mounts and companios from lockboxes will be and to win them from there u would need to spend atleast 200-300 boxes for each or more and each of boxes will cost
probably 1$-1.25$
Are you worried that they will start selling things that are mandatory for the game because the have a $200 founders pack?
Mandatory?
No.
Optional but has many great benefits over the casual spending or free player? Yes.
The latter is what worries me.
I see this happen in every f2p mmo, including pwe's mmo. I occasionally check out these mmos because I still play PWI from time to time. It's a bit hard to ignore when they gets bumped to the top of the list.
Competing with other customers? How am I competing? The game will generate more fun, it's not like I'm going to run out of fun because somebody used it all up.
You'll be competing with people that pay for gear directly or indirectly, people that pay for restating services, and people that pay for respecs.
If this mmo is going to have pvp options, you'll be competing with that as well. That's probably the main incentive for cashshopping.
I don't see the $200 Hero of the North Founder pack as any different than paying $200 for box seats at a game or VIP tickets to a concert. I have no guarantee when I make my purchase that the star players are going to be playing for both teams nor do I know it's going to be a thrilling, drama-filled competitive game and not some snoozer bore fest. As for the concert analogy I don't know if when I purchase my tickets if the band is going to give a nice long concert with several encores or if the lead singer is going to go psycho and cancel the show early. But either way, I'm paying a lot of money for the expectation that I'm going to get value for my money. Everyone attending the sporting event or concert can enjoy the show without having to pay the same amount I did.
And as for the price tag of $549 value? According to who?!? Other than PWE, the $549 estimated value is complete hyperbole at this point because no one knows what the value truly is for those items that come with the HOTN pack.
I paid the $200 first because I wanted to support the game; I want to see this game grow and succeed and secondly becuase while I would've preferred a lower cost (say $130 or $140), I don't get a choice to set the price. This is good ol' capitalism at it's finest: a company offers something to entice me to spend my money; it's up to me to decide if I feel it's worth the value or not regardless of what price they put on it.
Mandatory?
No.
Optional but has many great benefits over the casual spending or free player? Yes.
The latter is what worries me.
I see this happen in every f2p mmo, including pwe's mmo. I occasionally check out these mmos because I still play PWI from time to time. It's a bit hard to ignore when they gets bumped to the top of the list.
You'll be competing with people that pay for gear directly or indirectly, people that pay for restating services, and people that pay for respecs.
If mmo is going to have pvp options, you'll be competing with that as well. That's probably the main incentive for cashopping.
In a subscription MMO, spending money gives you infinite benefit over not spending money. In a F2P, it gives you slight benefit. I'm missing why the latter is bad.
Mandatory?
No.
Optional but has many great benefits over the casual spending or free player? Yes.
The latter is what worries me.
I see this happen in every f2p mmo, including pwe's mmo. I occasionally check out these mmos because I still play PWI from time to time. It's a bit hard to ignore when they gets bumped to the top of the list.
You'll be competing with people that pay for gear directly or indirectly, people that pay for restating services, and people that pay for respecs.
If this mmo is going to have pvp options, you'll be competing with that as well. That's probably the main incentive for cashshopping.
Do you have any examples from Cryptic developed games in particular?
0
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited February 2013
Well, I play CO and judging by their cash shop AND their in-game Questionite shop, you do not have to worry about "play to win". Its almost all cosmetic and convenience items. By convenience items I mean things like rename and respec tokens, storage space, character slots and the like. The only thing that may be considered buying power is possibly vehicles. But a high level character with no real world cash invested in it at all can be just as effective as one with a top of the line vehicle. Unless they are having a race. lol.
What I see in the Founder's packs is more of the same.
This founders pack discussion keeps coming and coming up on the forums. If you think about it logically spending $200 on the founders packs and getting the 750,000 astral diamonds wont do anything. They are giving you the cash shop currency for spending a large sum of money on the game. The people buying these packs (myself included)would be spending $60-$200 on astral diamonds anyway on the first day.So why not show my support now before beta and buy ahead of time. So they are just skipping the process and giving us the equivalent that the pack costs compared to the cost of currency.
And I like getting in game items that I can actually use in the game to my advantage rather than the stupid stuff you usually get with collectors edition games. Who needs a cheap plastic statue and a art book when I can have something I will actually appreciate in the game for years to come.
PS: Every cryptic game and some other games have had the $200 dollar price tag on them for lifetime subs as well, so don't stress the game was designed from the ground up to be F2P not freemium and not P2W.
none of these items will make you more powerful the armor sets are just for look. you get bag space. no form of elite weapon or armor no + str or dex or con. by all means if you dont like it dont buy it. but to those who are supporting the game you guys are paying for the expansions and future content. i'll be doing my part.
In a subscription MMO, spending money gives you infinite benefit over not spending money. In a F2P, it gives you slight benefit. I'm missing why the latter is bad.
In a f2p, those slight benefits build up over time and provide a higher curve for players that come in later.
Sure, this deal is nice if you're here at the beginning. But what about a year from now? Two years from now?
What will be in the cash shop then? Will I see people running around with cash shop cosmetics or people with gear that have been crafted to perfection by dumping a 1000 dollars in game?
Granted I am not as familiar with Cryptic games as I am with PWE's other titles, but it seems like a bad sign for the long term.
For the short term, oh it has plenty of benefits. But over the long term, more and more items will be added to the cash shop, and it's highly unlikely it'll all be cosmetic or aesthetic changes.
In a f2p, those slight benefits build up over time and provide a higher curve for players that come in later.
Sure, this deal is nice if you're here at the beginning. But what about a year from now? Two years from now?
What will be in the cash shop then? Will I see people running around with cash shop cosmetics or people with gear that have been crafted to perfection by dumping a 1000 dollars in game?
Granted I am not as familiar with Cryptic games as I am with PWE's other titles, but it seems like a bad sign for the long term.
For the short term, oh it has plenty of benefits. But over the long term, more and more items will be added to the cash shop, and it's highly unlikely it'll all be cosmetic or aesthetic changes.
So, to summarize, you are basing your hypothetical argument on complete speculation and ignorance. Might I suggest that you take a minute and research what's been said about the F2P model Cryptic is instituting. Possibly looking at their historical track with their other games, like Star Trek Online. The sky is not falling and there really isn't need to panic if you took the time to look at the information that's currently out there.
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
Path of Exile had people "donating" much more than $200 and received much less (although for $1000 you could create your own legendary item as a drop in the game, that's pretty cool).
$200 is an option, not a requirement. It's like a kick starter fund to help with development (assuming here) and to hopefully drive Cryptic to make a quality game.
But yeah, if you feel it's too much, you really don't have to give $200, you can play absolutely for free and just enjoy the game.
There is a rumor floating around that I am working on a new foundry quest. It was started by me.
0
xearrikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 323Arc User
edited February 2013
This thread and all like it are "Horrifying"
Someone please stop the madness.
Da kitties don't speak for me, deez kitties speak fur us all!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll Keep this up till beta goes live. I'll improve it soon.
So, to summarize, you are basing your hypothetical argument on complete speculation and ignorance. Might I suggest that you take a minute and research what's been said about the F2P model Cryptic is instituting. Possibly looking at their historical track with their other games, like Star Trek Online. The sky is not falling and there really isn't need to panic if you took the time to look at the information that's currently out there.
NWN is a bit of a different genre than STO or CO, it's the type of genre that has often falls into the p2w realm.
It's a bit hard to imagine the mmo as being that balanced if I'm already being slapped in the face with 200 dollar packs. Granted they are nothing more than expensive purchases for hyped up players for this mmo but just... What's next? A balanced cash shop or a cash shop on a road to cash shopping hell?
Cryptic, as I said, seems to be better off than most of the other mmos here, but the thing is, I'm seeing the exact same signs again.
I've been with pwe for 5 years. I started on PWI, and tried out their mmos that belong to different developers. If PWE had no influence on NWN's development (like Torchlight, very fine game btw), then I wouldn't care, but I just fear the same thing is going to happen here.
The first few years of PWI seemed fine too.
"Oh, the cash shop prices are more expensive than those in Malayasia? Why, it's the different currencies and higher wages in the west!"
"Oh, you're dropping couple hundred bucks for a legendary pet? Who said you had to buy it for your venomancer (pet user class)?"
"Oh, who said you had to buy those leveling items? You can level the normal way!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for gambling packs? You can get them buy them with in game currency anyways!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for those refinement items? You can buy them from players!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for the items essential for top gear? You can grind for it yourself or learn how to merchant!"
PWI may be still floating but god damn. I see this same pattern happen over and over and over with each new mmo published by PWE. Cryptic has only been with PWE for what, a year or two? Hardly enough time to see what might happen.
I want to cash shop, but I don't want to cash shop in order to be on fair and equal ground with others. I know I can't out play the no lifes or out shop the rich people, but it gets really excessive over time.
You're happy with the purchase. Great.
They aren't happy with the price. OK.
Let me ask you this. Why do you care? What is it about people complaining that irks you so much?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like it, don't read it. Don't like it, ignore it. Same logic, right?
You're happy with the purchase. Great.
They aren't happy with the price. OK.
Let me ask you this. Why do you care? What is it about people complaining that irks you so much?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like it, don't read it. Don't like it, ignore it. Same logic, right?
If threads like this didn't bury threads with real game questions, I wouldn't care. For every question on class or progression, there is one on these "OMG $200" threads.
OK, so explain the attraction of a value $549 package that has little real benefit to gameplay? I understand that there may be value in other ways like eye candy, but a value $549 boost to aesthetics?
People pay outrageous prices for all manner of goods that have a perception of luxury even if the goods are no better or more useful than nearly identical goods that cost orders of magnitude less. The idea of luxury, the idea of being exclusive, the idea of having something that is rare will make some people throw money at someone to have it.
Some people are fine with Brand X but jealously look at the people that are throwing money at the luxurious, exclusive, rare things.
Some people are perfectly happy with Brand X and could care less if someone else has the "fancy" things.
As far as an over inflated price is concerned, I don't think it's wise to look at a Founders deal in any game and assume the claimed values will be in-game prices after a short while. You're paying a premium for the "Wheee, I'm one of the first to do this!" feeling. It's just a matter of time before similar items in that pack are available at lower prices.
I don't see the $200 Hero of the North Founder pack as any different than paying $200 for box seats at a game or VIP tickets to a concert. I have no guarantee when I make my purchase that the star players are going to be playing for both teams nor do I know it's going to be a thrilling, drama-filled competitive game and not some snoozer bore fest. As for the concert analogy I don't know if when I purchase my tickets if the band is going to give a nice long concert with several encores or if the lead singer is going to go psycho and cancel the show early. But either way, I'm paying a lot of money for the expectation that I'm going to get value for my money. Everyone attending the sporting event or concert can enjoy the show without having to pay the same amount I did.
Totally agree and good explanation. However I doubt it will sway the "I want something for nothing" crowd.
I want to cash shop, but I don't want to cash shop in order to be on fair and equal ground with others. I know I can't out play the no lifes or out shop the rich people, but it gets really excessive overtime.
You're happy with the purchase. Great.
They aren't happy with the price. OK.
Let me ask you this. Why do you care? What is it about people complaining that irks you so much?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like it, don't read it. Don't like it, ignore it. Same logic, right?
I am ignoring it but just... Is it really wrong to have an opposing opinion? I am not asking for entitlement or fairness. I just want something more than a one sided discussion. Maybe a bit of change for once, to not be told "Go ignore it / leave if you don't like it!"
But I have seen enough. Even if the mmo turns out to be fine, I'm kind of disappointed with you guys, the community. I didn't want arguing or whining. I just wanted to see something that isn't so heavily biased to a degree that I can't butt in and see if people wanted to at least listen to what I want to say.
I'll leave and come back in a year or so. Like with every other mmo. I'll see more varied opinions then.
If threads like this didn't bury threads with real game questions, I wouldn't care. For every question on class or progression, there is one on these "OMG $200" threads.
Enough is enough.
So people don't have the right to say what they want on these forums now? Their opinions don't matter? Obviously there is a problem if these topics keep coming up.
Maybe if you ignore them, they wouldn't keep coming to the top of the forums?
I am ignoring it but just... Is it really wrong to have an opposing opinion? I am not asking for entitlement or fairness. I just want something more than a one sided discussion. Maybe a bit of change for once, to not be told "Go ignore it / leave if you don't like it!"
But I have seen enough. Even if the mmo turns out to be fine, I'm kind of disappointed with you guys, the community. I didn't want arguing or whining. I just wanted to see something that isn't so heavily biased to a degree that I can't butt in and see if people wanted to at least listen to what I want to say.
I'll leave and come back in a year or so. Like with every other mmo. I'll see more varied opinions then.
Oh that comment wasn't towards you. You have the right to say what you want. I just hate when the only answer people can give when they are upset because you don't like what they like is, "Don't like, don't buy it" or "No one is forcing you to buy it." I was just giving him his own advice from the first page of this thread.
So people don't have the right to say what they want on these forums now? Their opinions don't matter? Obviously there is a problem if these topics keep coming up.
Maybe if you ignore them, they wouldn't keep coming to the top of the forums?
You got me. I detest freedom.
0
indy20Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited February 2013
I can't believe someone called the pack pay to win. The devs already went over this at one of the conventions "The micro-transactions are convenience and costume type items, not power, no one wants to play a play to win mmo"
Comments
In what way?
Are you worried that they will start selling things that are mandatory for the game because the have a $200 founders pack?
I mean, Im thinking about the $60 version, and I would not pay $200, but Im grateful to all thoes Heroes of the North who did. They are funding most of my fun.
probably 1$-1.25$
Mandatory?
No.
Optional but has many great benefits over the casual spending or free player? Yes.
The latter is what worries me.
I see this happen in every f2p mmo, including pwe's mmo. I occasionally check out these mmos because I still play PWI from time to time. It's a bit hard to ignore when they gets bumped to the top of the list.
You'll be competing with people that pay for gear directly or indirectly, people that pay for restating services, and people that pay for respecs.
If this mmo is going to have pvp options, you'll be competing with that as well. That's probably the main incentive for cashshopping.
In a subscription MMO, spending money gives you infinite benefit over not spending money. In a F2P, it gives you slight benefit. I'm missing why the latter is bad.
Do you have any examples from Cryptic developed games in particular?
What I see in the Founder's packs is more of the same.
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
And I like getting in game items that I can actually use in the game to my advantage rather than the stupid stuff you usually get with collectors edition games. Who needs a cheap plastic statue and a art book when I can have something I will actually appreciate in the game for years to come.
PS: Every cryptic game and some other games have had the $200 dollar price tag on them for lifetime subs as well, so don't stress the game was designed from the ground up to be F2P not freemium and not P2W.
In a f2p, those slight benefits build up over time and provide a higher curve for players that come in later.
Sure, this deal is nice if you're here at the beginning. But what about a year from now? Two years from now?
What will be in the cash shop then? Will I see people running around with cash shop cosmetics or people with gear that have been crafted to perfection by dumping a 1000 dollars in game?
Granted I am not as familiar with Cryptic games as I am with PWE's other titles, but it seems like a bad sign for the long term.
For the short term, oh it has plenty of benefits. But over the long term, more and more items will be added to the cash shop, and it's highly unlikely it'll all be cosmetic or aesthetic changes.
So, to summarize, you are basing your hypothetical argument on complete speculation and ignorance. Might I suggest that you take a minute and research what's been said about the F2P model Cryptic is instituting. Possibly looking at their historical track with their other games, like Star Trek Online. The sky is not falling and there really isn't need to panic if you took the time to look at the information that's currently out there.
http://co.perfectworld.com/cstore
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
$200 is an option, not a requirement. It's like a kick starter fund to help with development (assuming here) and to hopefully drive Cryptic to make a quality game.
But yeah, if you feel it's too much, you really don't have to give $200, you can play absolutely for free and just enjoy the game.
Someone please stop the madness.
NWN is a bit of a different genre than STO or CO, it's the type of genre that has often falls into the p2w realm.
It's a bit hard to imagine the mmo as being that balanced if I'm already being slapped in the face with 200 dollar packs. Granted they are nothing more than expensive purchases for hyped up players for this mmo but just... What's next? A balanced cash shop or a cash shop on a road to cash shopping hell?
Cryptic, as I said, seems to be better off than most of the other mmos here, but the thing is, I'm seeing the exact same signs again.
I've been with pwe for 5 years. I started on PWI, and tried out their mmos that belong to different developers. If PWE had no influence on NWN's development (like Torchlight, very fine game btw), then I wouldn't care, but I just fear the same thing is going to happen here.
The first few years of PWI seemed fine too.
"Oh, the cash shop prices are more expensive than those in Malayasia? Why, it's the different currencies and higher wages in the west!"
"Oh, you're dropping couple hundred bucks for a legendary pet? Who said you had to buy it for your venomancer (pet user class)?"
"Oh, who said you had to buy those leveling items? You can level the normal way!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for gambling packs? You can get them buy them with in game currency anyways!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for those refinement items? You can buy them from players!"
"Oh, who said you have to pay for the items essential for top gear? You can grind for it yourself or learn how to merchant!"
PWI may be still floating but god damn. I see this same pattern happen over and over and over with each new mmo published by PWE. Cryptic has only been with PWE for what, a year or two? Hardly enough time to see what might happen.
I want to cash shop, but I don't want to cash shop in order to be on fair and equal ground with others. I know I can't out play the no lifes or out shop the rich people, but it gets really excessive over time.
If you don't like it, just ignore it?
You're happy with the purchase. Great.
They aren't happy with the price. OK.
Let me ask you this. Why do you care? What is it about people complaining that irks you so much?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like it, don't read it. Don't like it, ignore it. Same logic, right?
If threads like this didn't bury threads with real game questions, I wouldn't care. For every question on class or progression, there is one on these "OMG $200" threads.
Enough is enough.
Complain to your government. You are not being charged more, your government is taxing you for your "luxury item". Don't like it go riot or something.
People pay outrageous prices for all manner of goods that have a perception of luxury even if the goods are no better or more useful than nearly identical goods that cost orders of magnitude less. The idea of luxury, the idea of being exclusive, the idea of having something that is rare will make some people throw money at someone to have it.
Some people are fine with Brand X but jealously look at the people that are throwing money at the luxurious, exclusive, rare things.
Some people are perfectly happy with Brand X and could care less if someone else has the "fancy" things.
As far as an over inflated price is concerned, I don't think it's wise to look at a Founders deal in any game and assume the claimed values will be in-game prices after a short while. You're paying a premium for the "Wheee, I'm one of the first to do this!" feeling. It's just a matter of time before similar items in that pack are available at lower prices.
Totally agree and good explanation. However I doubt it will sway the "I want something for nothing" crowd.
Maybe this helps to put your mind at ease. This is Craig Zinkievich (CCO Cryptic Studios) explaining the F2P model... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vNMqSWF1aU&feature=youtu.be&t=25m21s
I am ignoring it but just... Is it really wrong to have an opposing opinion? I am not asking for entitlement or fairness. I just want something more than a one sided discussion. Maybe a bit of change for once, to not be told "Go ignore it / leave if you don't like it!"
But I have seen enough. Even if the mmo turns out to be fine, I'm kind of disappointed with you guys, the community. I didn't want arguing or whining. I just wanted to see something that isn't so heavily biased to a degree that I can't butt in and see if people wanted to at least listen to what I want to say.
I'll leave and come back in a year or so. Like with every other mmo. I'll see more varied opinions then.
So people don't have the right to say what they want on these forums now? Their opinions don't matter? Obviously there is a problem if these topics keep coming up.
Maybe if you ignore them, they wouldn't keep coming to the top of the forums?
Oh that comment wasn't towards you. You have the right to say what you want. I just hate when the only answer people can give when they are upset because you don't like what they like is, "Don't like, don't buy it" or "No one is forcing you to buy it." I was just giving him his own advice from the first page of this thread.
You got me. I detest freedom.