It is disucssed in this TOPIC: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3881919870
As default you can NOT enter a RAID in WOW with less then at least 2 players. However as the topic says if the other player leaves the raid after entering the RAID then you can solo it.
However why compare a HUGE Raid to Neverwinter Dungeons? Anybody can solo a 5 player instance(Dungeon) in WOW. It is harder though so you don't stand a chance if you try to solo your own level Dungeon.
Many people do in WOW is that they try lower level Raids or Dungeons with less people for fun. Anyway as an answer to your question you can try, but it is harder and some might be impossible to do.
How to solo a 5 player Neverwinter instance is a better question? I believe it requires that you would have 4 good henchmen for the harder(more difficult)Dungeons, but at this point I have no clue if Neverwinter supports so many henchmen. Stop dreaming that you can solo every instance please. I don't believe it until it has been confirmed that we could have 4 good henchmen. I mean you can try with less, but you will likely die even with a couple of henchmen...
Anyway it's moot you need at least two live people to do the quests it's likely they flagged the builds here to require live people, so you can't do it without having live people in the first place, unless you literally have two accounts logged in at once to do so...which is silly. But technically no you can't as I suspected is likely the case in this game, but this isn't canon of course.
So I have read the entire thread and then I went back to read the OP again. And the thing that it seems the conversation has broken down to is the place of solo players in the game world.
This in and of itself I find problematic. You see there is a disconnect if one says that MMO's are about the community then one wishes to see members of that community punished for their preferred play style. I've hear the, "But MMORPG's are about groups" argument for years, since EQ at least. The thing is they don't have to be, there is no cannon that says they must be.
I mostly solo'd in EQ after having a few run ins with egocentric guilds, it just became easier to avoid them, yet I still loved to participate in the community, chat, and helping newer players. I founded a movement called the Lia Fail, where I would give 5 gold to one new player a day and asked them only to return the favor to another new player when they could. The great thing about EQ was it had no intention to force you to group to play, it just didn't reward you as fast, if you solo'd.
I don't think anyone should be forced to group, in fact I'm in favor of things like hirelings, if you've ever played STO you know cryptic has done a great job with NPC crews. In fact in that game, I felt like they were an extension of my character and I wish more games would off this and let me develop this concept even more.
I noted that the discussion also focused a great deal on hirelings in DDO. I think there is a problem with bringing them into any discussion about a new game being designed. If NW launches with henchmen or hirelings it will have been designed with these features from the ground up, unlike DDO that added them later. This really is an apples and oranges situation. When changes like that come into a game after it has been in business for a while they tend to polarize communities, if NW launches with Henchmen it will be an accepted fact from day one.
I hope NW launches with a wide variety to offer both causal and solo focused players and hard core group focused players. A well designed game will offer them both something for them to enjoy. I think by and large STO did this, the problem it has was it launched with too little content for either group, but with the Foundry and the extra development time hopefully this won't be a repeated mistake with NW.
1. Good engine. Smooth animations and responsive UI. No lag graphical or internet related (as best as possible). To be honest i think Cryptic will nail this, i played STO and that game is very smooth and has nice graphics. Wish SWToR used their engine instead of the HERO engine (thats an example of BAD engine).
2. Good coop features. Here i mean player skills should synergize and proper execution/camboing of skills should be rewarded. STO for example lacked this feature big time. Mash more buttons = boring. Good example of this is most MOBA games where positioning, timing and skill camboing is the key to victory. Not mash more buttons. I think cryptic has shown they're working on that in their fighter knockdown cambo'd with the wizard AoE for max effect. I hope they focus on that, as group synergy and proper group play should be really the shining point of any MMO, and will make your combat fun and exciting as opposed to right click and snooze of your traditional MMO.
3. Not another single player game with group function tacked on. This is probably the single biggest reason why most new MMO fail. Look at SWToR. Great story, fun leveling, most can be done solo. Poor group mechanic, boring to play, lost 1mil subs in less than 1yr (thats like 80-90% of their subs). This is kinda a subset of 2, but pls make the game have group content first and solo content second. People should be able to solo some content but pls very limited amount of it.
4. Good amount of content for PvE and PvP. I think this should be the easiest one to get for Cryptic due to their revolutinary Foundry system.
For those who hate to read here is the TLDR;
1. Good engine. Smooth animations, low frame rates, responsive UI.
2. Team oriented game. Synergize group skills. Timing and positioning instead of mash more buttons should be the key to successful combat.
3. Not another single player game ala SWToR. Group focused game please.
4. Good amount of content for both PvP and PvE. Foundry should help this one alot.
0
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
Yeah, to clear up solo centric like PvP should be a choice but not to be expected as the only way of doing things. For people who like to solo, there should be that access, with the understanding there are other things that exist that also are for those who are opposite that or group only. So the delve is the multi-only option which like PvP is a small part of the entirety of the game (and likely solo people will find workarounds within the game legal setup.)
Personally, from what I saw of the wizard controller class I plan to play (unless there's another build that comes out by release,) I expect to need to do groups after a certain point with the elite bosses (eg solos.)
I am all for consensual parties, not forced parties. If someone wants to solo and is on my party, that person will definitely zerg because he/she is unhappy. So let those who want to solo, solo. So that all play the game happily.
Dumb game is dumb. Dumbed down content just to cater to a small minority of persons who lack social skills isn't a good path for a MMORPG if you intend to make money, that is.
WOW, LOTRO, RIFT, EQ2 didn't dumb down content and they do pretty good.
I want to play solo I'd rather play Skyrim or Witcher 2 or other single player RPGS.
Dumb game is dumb. Dumbed down content just to cater to a small minority of persons who lack social skills isn't a good path for a MMORPG if you intend to make money, that is.
WOW, LOTRO, RIFT, EQ2 didn't dumb down content and they do pretty good.
I want to play solo I'd rather play Skyrim or Witcher 2 or other single player RPGS.
Maybe (and I hope so) we will have raids in Neverwinter, too. Anything from 15 - players to 40 players would be fine.
I'm sorry,and I am not trying to flame here, but I see this all the time and personally it is tiresome. You are calling games dumb and insinuating that soloers lack social skills. While from what I can tell the soloers in this thread have simply asked that their chosen play style not be overlook and that they not forced to play in a way they don't enjoy. I have to really ask them, who lacks the social skills?
While from what I can tell the soloers in this thread have simply asked that their chosen play style not be overlook
It's the wrong game.
I also want to play a knight in a sci-fi game, hold a laser gun in a fantasy game and use turn based combat in an action combat style game. Also I would like to have a racing kart as a mount in this very game.
Sadly, this isn't going to happen.
There are plenty solo games for people who prefer solo play style. Just a few:
Mass Effec 3t, Skyrim, Risen 2, Witcher 2, Grimrock , Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, Dragon Age II, Heroes VI.
I also want to play a knight in a sci-fi game, hold a laser gun in a fantasy game and use turn based combat in an action combat style game. Also I would like to have a racing kart as a mount in this very game.
Sadly, this isn't going to happen.
There are plenty solo games for people who prefer solo play style. Just a few:
Mass Effec 3t, Skyrim, Risen 2, Witcher 2, Grimrock , Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, Dragon Age II, Heroes VI.
Using that logic then there are plenty of games for those who want to play multiplayer - Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield... nevermind that they don't fit what you want *rolls eyes*
Enough said. For it is they who decide what crowd the game caters to, not us. And they have decided to have a larger range of crowd rather than solo-only or party-only. They don't want to exclude people from this awesome game.
Solo-phobics and solo-philics should try to get along
0
muzrub333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
Wow this is as bad as a PvP threadb:chuckle.
I prefer to group, but I like the option of having something to do solo.
I think I may have mistakenly used "devles" to represent normal instances; if that is the case then I get some of the angst in this thread. I don't want to solo the Pirate Boss, or the Uthgardt that turns into a huge Gnoll...those are boss mobs and should require a group, (unless I come back after a few levels just to try). What I want, is to have the option of gaining EXP in a instance solo, if I don't have time to find a group, or I know I will need to potentially drop out of the group with no warning. I solo as much to help others avoid frustration, as I do to avoid frustration myself on days that I have to deal with RL issues while getting in some game time.
It's going to be a great game, but having more options will open it up to more people. The more the merrier in my book.
(aside) Truthseeker...In EQ things that were once raid content, were later regularly soloed. This was due to the sheer size, and never ending power creep as you leveled. I know a wizard that soloed the Plane of Fear. It was a ~ level 50 zone, and he was 70 I think. EQ was great in that it allowed you to just try crazy things to see if you could do it.
And no, I am not saying I should be able to solo level appropriate Raid content...that's just crazy to even think that. >)
I think I may have mistakenly used "devles" to represent normal instances; if that is the case then I get some of the angst in this thread. I don't want to solo the Pirate Boss, or the Uthgardt that turns into a huge Gnoll...those are boss mobs and should require a group, (unless I come back after a few levels just to try). What I want, is to have the option of gaining EXP in a instance solo, if I don't have time to find a group, or I know I will need to potentially drop out of the group with no warning. I solo as much to help others avoid frustration, as I do to avoid frustration myself on days that I have to deal with RL issues while getting in some game time.
I took devles to mean "raid" like content. In STO these were called STF's, all of the content not classified as an STF was soloable at certain level ranges, but STF's were not (this may have changed, but I don't think it did). Once they added the difficulty slider to the game you had even more incentive to group because higher difficulty meant greater reward, even for non-STF content.
This is the system I hope they carry through to Neverwinter, with appropriate tweaks. No one style of game play is better, or more suited to a game like Neverwinter. Neither group should be punished for their preferred style and those who group should be rewarded for taking on more challenging content.
I don't remember if the STO foundry let you set group size for your missions, if I remember it simply scaled, but I could be wrong. I actually hope this is something the Neverwinter foundry will allow. I have no problem with people creating content for groups only, in fact I think allowing that kind of control adds a great element of flexibility and variety to a the mission creation tools.
I don't know what's going on in this thread and everybody keeps posting walls of text so I'm just gonna go ahead and say Neverwinter looks fun so far and that's about that. Kthxbai ^.^
I believe Leroy Jenkins is awaiting his raid buddy in that "other game" ... shoooo... move along now...
Is that really necessary? Must you always be this snarky? It really doesn't help in fostering a good community at all; you can disagree with someone without resorting to telling new forum members to leave.
Is that really necessary? Must you always be this snarky? It really doesn't help in fostering a good community at all; you can disagree with someone without resorting to telling new forum members to leave.
Oh, 10/1 he's entertained. Calm down Mr Scrooge. You have heard of Leroy Jenkins before - havent ya?
Ok, give the antisocial guys some dungeons where they can dress in leather and do all sort of crazy stuff but don't dumb down raid content.
Funny commentb:laugh. However maybe slightly to annoying. Even though I am WOW veteran I have played Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1 etc. I think we should try to hold some respect for both play styles. However I absolutely agree that some things are meant for multiplayer. Every instance will not be doable by a single player.
I think there could be is slight confusion here. Developers have clearly said that there will be RAIDS. However when they use the word raids in this game they mean 5 player instance which could be a Dungeon.
Will there ever be big raids like for 10 people or more? Maybe in an expansion, but I would not expect it any time soon. I heard release date is postponed to 2013 despite what FAQ says and PvP will be released some time after the release.
Anyway this is not a casual carebear game like Guild Wars 2 with powerprogression(maxed character in less then 2 weeks!), but neither do I believe it is like WOW endless loot mill. I would guess that there is a powerplateau, but like in Neverwinter Nights 1 you certainly should not reach it fast. However that is my guess and I could be wrong.
Was under the impression raids are just called "dungeon delves" in this game ?
Yes maybe, but for a MMO player like me a 5 player instance is not a raid. A raid is for me 10+ players, but I think I heard a developer use the word raid in some video interview when he talked about 5 player Dungeons.
0
vindiconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
5 people is not a "raid"... Raids are huge groups of people plowing through a dungeon, killing and looting and... well, raiding.
And you can hardly call 5 people a large group so no, despite what the devs wanna call it, it's not a raid and so there's no raid content. They do not get to simply pick what already established terms actually mean.
Yeah, raids have to be 10+ if the standard max party size is going to be 5. Any less then double the size, I'd think most folks just aren't going to buy it no matter what coat of paint you put on the duck...
Was under the impression raids are just called "dungeon delves" in this game ?
Come on... if you were a dev and you had a game and somebody asked while jumping, "What about raids?" what will you answer? Obviously you won't want to hit that person -for having a myopic vision to see all MMOs with one vision and something you have actually created being put down by those stupid standards - I mean not officially ofcourse.
You can basically listen Andy say, "There are no raids per se in gamebut there would be long long dungeon delves, maybe an hour or more. We will definately improve on them depending on feedback <etc etc etc>.
Come on... if you were a dev and you had a game and somebody asked while jumping, "What about raids?" what will you answer? Obviously you won't want to hit that person -for having a myopic vision to see all MMOs with one vision and something you have actually created being put down by those stupid standards - I mean not officially ofcourse.
You can basically listen Andy say, "There are no raids per se in gamebut there would be long long dungeon delves, maybe an hour or more. We will definately improve on them depending on feedback <etc etc etc>.
Yeah, by calling significantly longer or more complex content "dungeon delves" could be marketed as an early alternative to raids. That I think would be what Andy was alluding to there.
You can basically listen Andy say, "There are no raids per se in gamebut there would be long long dungeon delves, maybe an hour or more. We will definately improve on them depending on feedback <etc etc etc>.
Aha yeah that sounds more accurate, but hey that sound almost as half raids since raids are long:) Well I am simply teasing. I would welcome real raids for 10-40 people, but lets have a reality check here that it would not happen anytime soon if they ever will be included.
While ok graphics the E3 video said pre Alpha... I don't think this game is so finished yet as many believe. Current release date is to early 2013, but I would not be surprised if it is pushed further into the year. With the free game logic and FOUNDRY etc. I am pretty pleased at what we get as long as they do not make the game so that it is very fast to reach a Powerplateau like in Guild Wars 2.
Is it written in stone that max party size will be five? To me a raid is sjut something you can't solo and need a larger group to complete.
Now what "a larger group" means is all relative, take ddo for example there's raids that can be soloed easily enough by 1 person.
I don't know if anything is written in stone at this point, but 5 has been the number many have thrown around. Truth, if your out there, might be able to conform if any other number has been used.
I agree the DDO raid formula may have worked in the first few years, but by now, its original point is lost in the powercreep. Many, many who run DDO raids shortman them. Heck, the largest segment of the community I dare to say doesn't even bother raiding any longer...
Comments
Anyway it's moot you need at least two live people to do the quests it's likely they flagged the builds here to require live people, so you can't do it without having live people in the first place, unless you literally have two accounts logged in at once to do so...which is silly. But technically no you can't as I suspected is likely the case in this game, but this isn't canon of course.
This in and of itself I find problematic. You see there is a disconnect if one says that MMO's are about the community then one wishes to see members of that community punished for their preferred play style. I've hear the, "But MMORPG's are about groups" argument for years, since EQ at least. The thing is they don't have to be, there is no cannon that says they must be.
I mostly solo'd in EQ after having a few run ins with egocentric guilds, it just became easier to avoid them, yet I still loved to participate in the community, chat, and helping newer players. I founded a movement called the Lia Fail, where I would give 5 gold to one new player a day and asked them only to return the favor to another new player when they could. The great thing about EQ was it had no intention to force you to group to play, it just didn't reward you as fast, if you solo'd.
I don't think anyone should be forced to group, in fact I'm in favor of things like hirelings, if you've ever played STO you know cryptic has done a great job with NPC crews. In fact in that game, I felt like they were an extension of my character and I wish more games would off this and let me develop this concept even more.
I noted that the discussion also focused a great deal on hirelings in DDO. I think there is a problem with bringing them into any discussion about a new game being designed. If NW launches with henchmen or hirelings it will have been designed with these features from the ground up, unlike DDO that added them later. This really is an apples and oranges situation. When changes like that come into a game after it has been in business for a while they tend to polarize communities, if NW launches with Henchmen it will be an accepted fact from day one.
I hope NW launches with a wide variety to offer both causal and solo focused players and hard core group focused players. A well designed game will offer them both something for them to enjoy. I think by and large STO did this, the problem it has was it launched with too little content for either group, but with the Foundry and the extra development time hopefully this won't be a repeated mistake with NW.
1. Good engine. Smooth animations and responsive UI. No lag graphical or internet related (as best as possible). To be honest i think Cryptic will nail this, i played STO and that game is very smooth and has nice graphics. Wish SWToR used their engine instead of the HERO engine (thats an example of BAD engine).
2. Good coop features. Here i mean player skills should synergize and proper execution/camboing of skills should be rewarded. STO for example lacked this feature big time. Mash more buttons = boring. Good example of this is most MOBA games where positioning, timing and skill camboing is the key to victory. Not mash more buttons. I think cryptic has shown they're working on that in their fighter knockdown cambo'd with the wizard AoE for max effect. I hope they focus on that, as group synergy and proper group play should be really the shining point of any MMO, and will make your combat fun and exciting as opposed to right click and snooze of your traditional MMO.
3. Not another single player game with group function tacked on. This is probably the single biggest reason why most new MMO fail. Look at SWToR. Great story, fun leveling, most can be done solo. Poor group mechanic, boring to play, lost 1mil subs in less than 1yr (thats like 80-90% of their subs). This is kinda a subset of 2, but pls make the game have group content first and solo content second. People should be able to solo some content but pls very limited amount of it.
4. Good amount of content for PvE and PvP. I think this should be the easiest one to get for Cryptic due to their revolutinary Foundry system.
For those who hate to read here is the TLDR;
1. Good engine. Smooth animations, low frame rates, responsive UI.
2. Team oriented game. Synergize group skills. Timing and positioning instead of mash more buttons should be the key to successful combat.
3. Not another single player game ala SWToR. Group focused game please.
4. Good amount of content for both PvP and PvE. Foundry should help this one alot.
Personally, from what I saw of the wizard controller class I plan to play (unless there's another build that comes out by release,) I expect to need to do groups after a certain point with the elite bosses (eg solos.)
WOW, LOTRO, RIFT, EQ2 didn't dumb down content and they do pretty good.
I want to play solo I'd rather play Skyrim or Witcher 2 or other single player RPGS.
Maybe (and I hope so) we will have raids in Neverwinter, too. Anything from 15 - players to 40 players would be fine.
I'm sorry,and I am not trying to flame here, but I see this all the time and personally it is tiresome. You are calling games dumb and insinuating that soloers lack social skills. While from what I can tell the soloers in this thread have simply asked that their chosen play style not be overlook and that they not forced to play in a way they don't enjoy. I have to really ask them, who lacks the social skills?
It's the wrong game.
I also want to play a knight in a sci-fi game, hold a laser gun in a fantasy game and use turn based combat in an action combat style game. Also I would like to have a racing kart as a mount in this very game.
Sadly, this isn't going to happen.
There are plenty solo games for people who prefer solo play style. Just a few:
Mass Effec 3t, Skyrim, Risen 2, Witcher 2, Grimrock , Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, Dragon Age II, Heroes VI.
Using that logic then there are plenty of games for those who want to play multiplayer - Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield... nevermind that they don't fit what you want *rolls eyes*
Enough said. For it is they who decide what crowd the game caters to, not us. And they have decided to have a larger range of crowd rather than solo-only or party-only. They don't want to exclude people from this awesome game.
Solo-phobics and solo-philics should try to get along
I prefer to group, but I like the option of having something to do solo.
I think I may have mistakenly used "devles" to represent normal instances; if that is the case then I get some of the angst in this thread. I don't want to solo the Pirate Boss, or the Uthgardt that turns into a huge Gnoll...those are boss mobs and should require a group, (unless I come back after a few levels just to try). What I want, is to have the option of gaining EXP in a instance solo, if I don't have time to find a group, or I know I will need to potentially drop out of the group with no warning. I solo as much to help others avoid frustration, as I do to avoid frustration myself on days that I have to deal with RL issues while getting in some game time.
It's going to be a great game, but having more options will open it up to more people. The more the merrier in my book.
(aside) Truthseeker...In EQ things that were once raid content, were later regularly soloed. This was due to the sheer size, and never ending power creep as you leveled. I know a wizard that soloed the Plane of Fear. It was a ~ level 50 zone, and he was 70 I think. EQ was great in that it allowed you to just try crazy things to see if you could do it.
And no, I am not saying I should be able to solo level appropriate Raid content...that's just crazy to even think that. >)
I took devles to mean "raid" like content. In STO these were called STF's, all of the content not classified as an STF was soloable at certain level ranges, but STF's were not (this may have changed, but I don't think it did). Once they added the difficulty slider to the game you had even more incentive to group because higher difficulty meant greater reward, even for non-STF content.
This is the system I hope they carry through to Neverwinter, with appropriate tweaks. No one style of game play is better, or more suited to a game like Neverwinter. Neither group should be punished for their preferred style and those who group should be rewarded for taking on more challenging content.
I don't remember if the STO foundry let you set group size for your missions, if I remember it simply scaled, but I could be wrong. I actually hope this is something the Neverwinter foundry will allow. I have no problem with people creating content for groups only, in fact I think allowing that kind of control adds a great element of flexibility and variety to a the mission creation tools.
News for you!
There is no raid content.
I believe Leroy Jenkins is awaiting his raid buddy in that "other game" ... shoooo... move along now...
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Is that really necessary? Must you always be this snarky? It really doesn't help in fostering a good community at all; you can disagree with someone without resorting to telling new forum members to leave.
Oh, 10/1 he's entertained. Calm down Mr Scrooge. You have heard of Leroy Jenkins before - havent ya?
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u mad bro ?
Nope, you?
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I think there could be is slight confusion here. Developers have clearly said that there will be RAIDS. However when they use the word raids in this game they mean 5 player instance which could be a Dungeon.
Will there ever be big raids like for 10 people or more? Maybe in an expansion, but I would not expect it any time soon. I heard release date is postponed to 2013 despite what FAQ says and PvP will be released some time after the release.
Anyway this is not a casual carebear game like Guild Wars 2 with powerprogression(maxed character in less then 2 weeks!), but neither do I believe it is like WOW endless loot mill. I would guess that there is a powerplateau, but like in Neverwinter Nights 1 you certainly should not reach it fast. However that is my guess and I could be wrong.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Yes maybe, but for a MMO player like me a 5 player instance is not a raid. A raid is for me 10+ players, but I think I heard a developer use the word raid in some video interview when he talked about 5 player Dungeons.
And you can hardly call 5 people a large group so no, despite what the devs wanna call it, it's not a raid and so there's no raid content. They do not get to simply pick what already established terms actually mean.
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Come on... if you were a dev and you had a game and somebody asked while jumping, "What about raids?" what will you answer? Obviously you won't want to hit that person -for having a myopic vision to see all MMOs with one vision and something you have actually created being put down by those stupid standards - I mean not officially ofcourse.
You can basically listen Andy say, "There are no raids per se in game but there would be long long dungeon delves, maybe an hour or more. We will definately improve on them depending on feedback <etc etc etc>.
Yeah, by calling significantly longer or more complex content "dungeon delves" could be marketed as an early alternative to raids. That I think would be what Andy was alluding to there.
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Now what "a larger group" means is all relative, take ddo for example there's raids that can be soloed easily enough by 1 person.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
While ok graphics the E3 video said pre Alpha... I don't think this game is so finished yet as many believe. Current release date is to early 2013, but I would not be surprised if it is pushed further into the year. With the free game logic and FOUNDRY etc. I am pretty pleased at what we get as long as they do not make the game so that it is very fast to reach a Powerplateau like in Guild Wars 2.
I don't know if anything is written in stone at this point, but 5 has been the number many have thrown around. Truth, if your out there, might be able to conform if any other number has been used.
I agree the DDO raid formula may have worked in the first few years, but by now, its original point is lost in the powercreep. Many, many who run DDO raids shortman them. Heck, the largest segment of the community I dare to say doesn't even bother raiding any longer...
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No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!