I too understand. Its true it was very annoying waiting for half an hour for a necro 3 group (eek that rats quest!) but that was what made those quests more precious too. Many people run the same quests a hundred times (and you had to in old times because there weren't that many quests to begin with) but each run was special because of a party.
Mostly a pug almost always had one zerger, who was sometimes bad, sometimes good (e.g. knowing when not to wake up the sleeping trogs). Many quests as pit gave a great sense of accomplishment also - they were long and taxing. But then only some quests were popular and many quests which gave less XP/rewards were often ignored(very few did carnival before epic). So the need of hireling was felt as no one would do those quests. However, what made DDO strong was not actually loot but people - and taking foolish risks and surviving (I played as full plate cleric and always ran to pull ice while others gasped).
But game design of DDO is completely different from cryptic. If you play CO or STO you know that rewards are equally divided. There is no set chest for bloodstone which needs to be run for 200 times a day in a really <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> way (I hated it when 2 people in my group got it the first time they came to sands while us others were running for days!). Any chest can have bloodstone so you are not forced to play a particular content because of specific loot - just play a content at specific level.
This design is less vulnerable to exploitation. So I do like cryptic way more. Have a lot of content and equalize loot so all kinds of people can play. While DDO has often been trying to make it hard for exploiters to exploit, cryptic has just taken out the reason to go for an exploit itself which is genius.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
Well, bluntly speaking I'm not paying 80 for beta testing their new isues which were (likely) a (some what kne-jerk) reaction to the (then) upcoming release of this NWO game. Wow, what a COINKYDINK that they offered FR too when this game no longer was a limited co-op hireling and pet enanced game?
But it seems in DDO's rush to be first, this NWO game delayed to do it right and now people on the DDO end got the rush job decision of speed over quality and paid for a lot of bugs (some the worst seen in seven years,) and the prevous issues still are not fixed (as a matter of fact iof reports are to be believed, lag is WORSE sometimes.) To keep a game good, address your core base, your core goals and your future goals not to conflict with those first two things. After seeing that company also freed from Atari's gray business decisions, it breaks my heart to see how this was "decided" there.
If ever there could be two D&D MMO games running side by side for those who want turn-based theme 3.5 and live action fast paced 4th edition inspired, these were to be the ones. Now what unfortunately Aandre listed is true, and it hurts DDO after one of the most amazing comebacks ever done....
And for no reason, I think I'll comment after all and say this MMO can be fun, but watch out for those who need to learn how to learn to attack and run multiple directions AND block/use utility powers. Just a spontaneous comment now I've looked at some more video/demo close up and decided to comment after all....
I agree with andre pretty much on this one, sorry stormdragon.
My wife n I payed for the xpack 50 bucks each n we no longer play for much of what andre has said.
I was always a pugger I pugged my way to my pink swords I pugged my way to my eclaw set, i pugged my way to my red dragon scale (the new version) etc etc all this on khyber.
The pug group lately have gone to hell to many peeps that stoned to level up and don't know wth they are doing to the point you rarely find decent groups other than in channels and even then channels have been sucky slow.
In the last 2 weeks I've run one hard shroud and was bored to tears...even my guildies are bored and some went to gw2, the rest are just working on their alts as the guild has many altoholics...
Until some bugs are fixed and they add more content i will keep messing around various forums and wasting my time in allods, how sad is that frackking allods !!!!
I agree with andre pretty much on this one, sorry stormdragon.
My wife n I payed for the xpack 50 bucks each n we no longer play for much of what andre has said.
I was always a pugger I pugged my way to my pink swords I pugged my way to my eclaw set, i pugged my way to my red dragon scale (the new version) etc etc all this on khyber.
The pug group lately have gone to hell to many peeps that stoned to level up and don't know wth they are doing to the point you rarely find decent groups other than in channels and even then channels have been sucky slow.
In the last 2 weeks I've run one hard shroud and was bored to tears...even my guildies are bored and some went to gw2, the rest are just working on their alts as the guild has many altoholics...
Until some bugs are fixed and they add more content i will keep messing around various forums and wasting my time in allods, how sad is that frackking allods !!!!
I respect your opinion and your personal experience but this isn't about how many agree with who, the thing is just because the pug population has diminished really doesn't mean the games profitability has diminished last quarter DDO profit was up from the previous year and the main source of that profit came from the cash shop and VIP memberships not the expansion, also the number of log ins stayed pretty much steady with last years numbers..that is hardly a sign of a broken busted community just one that may be changing direction but is still profitable.
Anyway yeah it's going to be interesting to see what DDO does to compete with NWO, I think there will be attrition but my point was and is that attrition hasn't happened yet despite the perception.
Dunno where you are getting this but i think there been more vip drops or vips going premium.
It's hard to discuss these thing accurately as only ddo knows for sure but one thing i am sure of is that the community now sucks major bad for new players and even for older player that like to pug.
This isn't an opinion, pugs have gone down drastically. Hell most older player avoid pugs like the plague now seeing as even raids can be short-manned rather easily.
Also I know it's not a popularity contest, when I say I agree with "so and so" it's so I don't have to type the same thing as they have already.
I respect your opinion and your personal experience but this isn't about how many agree with who, the thing is just because the pug population has diminished really doesn't mean the games profitability has diminished last quarter DDO profit was up from the previous year and the main source of that profit came from the cash shop and VIP memberships not the expansion, also the number of log ins stayed pretty much steady with last years numbers..that is hardly a sign of a broken busted community just one that may be changing direction but is still profitable.
Anyway yeah it's going to be interesting to see what DDO does to compete with NWO, I think there will be attrition but my point was and is that attrition hasn't happened yet despite the perception.
But subs are down in Q3, and with dwindling playerbase those margins are already going south. If you don't see attrition, you either arent playing DDO or haven't left the "Lobster"... in a year.
Im sorry Storm, but you just don't have a grasp on this.
Dunno where you are getting this but i think there been more vip drops or vips going premium.
It's hard to discuss these thing accurately as only ddo knows for sure but one thing i am sure of is that the community now suck major bad for new players and even for older player that like to pug.
This isn't an opinion, pugs have gone down drastically.
No I agree with you pugs have gone down drastically, but the other services have increased or have stayed the same, it's not empirical evidence but my consulting firm has eight people at Turbine working on DDO and LOTRO and I tend to believe what they say.
But subs are down in Q3, and with dwindling playerbase those margins are already going south. If you don't see attrition, you either arent playing DDO or haven't left the "Lobster"... in a year.
Im sorry Storm, but you just don't have a grasp on this.
Can you point me to the numbers Andre? I would truly like to see them and compare the to what I have been told.
There may be a spike in profits but it won't last the way things are going, I'm seeing to many people say fk ddo, even in the <removed> which is kind of funny. lol
The way I see it is that that the ddo pug scene is how you gauge the future for ddo, guild/channel runs are too muh like static groups.
There may be a spike in profits but it won't last the way things are going, I'm seeing to many people say fk ddo, even in the <removed> which is kind of funny. lol
/shrug
Maybe so..but it hasn't happened yet at least not the attrition that is perceived of in this thread and that was kinda my original point.
Aandre can keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about but really that's just his opinion.. doesn't make it so.
Let's hear the numbers you've "been told." Please be specific.
No need to be snarky Aandre
I wasn't give specifics (sorry when you are talking to colleagues they usually don't hand you metric sheets) I related to you what I was told by consultants on the ground at Turbine, and since I haven't seen any hard numbers from you ( you did say the numbers dropped in Q3 and I would think if you said that you would have said numbers right?) I have to take that as valid information.
Come on Storm, I dont mean to be snarky but you just arent making a lick of sense to me, or probably to anyone who plays DDO currently.
You don't seem like you are even playing the game any longer the way you are talking. You can't possibly argue that the PUG scene has improved, or even remained the same as it was pre-MotU, and forget about comparing the way it was last year or the year before.
My "numbers" come from discussing guild business with dozens of organized guild leaders on a daily basis. Being very active on the DDO forums. Discussing topics such as these from those in the media/podcast community. Oh, and looking at the LFMs every night and SEEING MAYBE ONE OUT OF EVERY TWENTY GROUPS FILL!
Please Storm, if you have numbers to the contrary, please PM me what you've got, report it here, or log onto DDO and tell me how many groups you see up that are leaving filled, as opposed to those sitting with 1 or 2 players for an eternity.
Come on Storm, I dont mean to be snarky but you just arent making a lick of sense to someone who plays DDO currently.
You don't seem like you are even playing the game any longer the way you are talking. You can't possibly argue that the PUG scene has improved, or even remained the same as it was pre-MotU, and forget about comparing the way it was last year or the year before.
My "numbers" come from discussing guild business with dozens of organized guild leaders on a daily basis. Being very active on the DDO forums. Discussing topics such as these from those in the media/podcast community. Oh, and looking at the LFMs every night and SEEING MAYBE ONE OUT OF EVERY TWENTY GROUPS FILL!
Please Storm, if you have numbers to the contrary, please PM those numbers, tell us here, or log onto DDO and tell me how many groups you see up that are leaving filled, as opposed to those sitting with 1 or 2 players for an eternity.
Whoa whoa are you even reading what I said? ( no of course not you're just trying ever so hard to win a argument /eyeroll)
I just told pilf3r that I agreed that the pug numbers were going down but overall the profitability and log ins according to people I work with have either increased or have stayed the same.
Maybe if you go back and actually read instead of jumping to conclusions yet again just because you have "issues"
You stated twice now that you have numbers to back up your assertions based on data you've been given from your "colleagues" at Turbine. Well, since you've made that much public, why dont you share the numbers (heck something even in the ballpark would be an interesting read), instead of playing a guessing game with people who actually play the game. That's not being snarky. That's not opinion. It's a request.
So please forgive me when I just don't believe a word you are saying. As soon as somebody disagrees with you or doubts your assertions you get defensive and call people names, such as the "issues" remark, or in the last thread you went haywire for six pages when you thought people were manipulating votes just because I asked the mods some questions.
Its no big thing Storm, everyone is wrong on occasion. You should just own up to it when you are... that's all I'm saying. It will save us all a whole lot of unnecessary reading.
I'm going to drop it now and go to bed. Goodnight man.
You stated twice now that you have numbers to back up your assertions based on data you've been given from your "colleagues" at Turbine. Well, since you've made that much public, why dont you share the numbers (heck something even in the ballpark would be an interesting read), instead of playing a guessing game with people who actually play the game. That's not being snarky. That's not opinion. It's a request.
So please forgive me when I just don't believe a word you are saying. As soon as somebody disagrees with you or doubts your assertions you get defensive and call people names, such as the "issues" remark, or in the last thread you went haywire when you thought the people were manipulating votes just because I asked the mods some questions.
Its no big thing Storm, you were wrong. I'm certainly wrong on occasion. Everyone is wrong on occasion. You should just own up to it when you are... that's all I'm saying. It will save us all a whole lot of unnecessary reading.
I'm going to drop it now and go to bed. Goodnight man.
Whatever Aandre only you could get that out of the conversation in this thread, you are obviously still pissed about many people thinking something was up with your sudden mod poll and now have an axe to grind.
And the issues remark wasn't a insult it was a observation on your passive aggressiveness, backpedaling, editing and hypocrisy that has earned you the name "Aandre the ogre" by many on this forum You can tell a developer how tense and worked up he is just because he calls you on your BS, you can give back handed remarks like kiss <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and fan boy but you can't take the fair observation.
Anyway in the future I will try not to step in your bloviating no matter how ridiculous and inane I find it.
Selling the ability to do the hardest content is dumb plain and simple. I don't care if you have $2,000 dollars to give "support to the company" that doesn't mean you get to buy your way to the top.
Selling XP boosts? Fine.
Selling skins ect? Fine.
Even selling Mid tier Gear Fine.
But if you sell anything that gives you even a slight advantage in completing the hardest current content **** that ****. Like what the hell is the point in even playing the game for free at that point? What matters is completing content quickly and having the rewards for it when it matters.
In my eyes if you sell the ability to do the hardest content easier, or compete in pvp easier the game isn't free to play. Honestly it should be titled "free to sample" or something.
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leopardladyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
I believe Neverwinter will be a fun game to play. I'm sure it won't be a "pay to win" game, and what items will be in the store is still something we can only guess at (unless I missed something from the Dev's). Putting the status of DDO and others aside and get back to the topic at hand, I for one am confident that Neverwinter won't go the "pay to win" route, that would ruin it. I am a casual player in the aspect of I like to take my time going through content, getting to know my guild and finding the right guild to run with (i.e. having the same mindset, goals ect.) and most importantly having fun. If I have need of things from the store in order to make that process a possiblility I hope it is there, not an advantage mind you, but the things that are needed to survive while looking for my home guild.
I am not one to start a game and spam the shout channel for a group/guild, I am the kind of player who if/when I run across somebody who I think is on same quest as I am, to send a tell and ask if they would like to group up, then depending on how it goes, group more with same person or continue on until I find a guild that would seem like they have same mindset. If I don't find a group I would like the option of henchmen that can help me through until I do. I don't think that would be a game breaker or a "pay to win" aspect.
Gear on the other hand is something I wouldn't want to see in the store, unless it is a cosmetic thing. Be it low, mid or high level gear.
I believe Neverwinter will be a fun game to play. I'm sure it won't be a "pay to win" game, and what items will be in the store is still something we can only guess at (unless I missed something from the Dev's). Putting the status of DDO and others aside and get back to the topic at hand, I for one am confident that Neverwinter won't go the "pay to win" route, that would ruin it. I am a casual player in the aspect of I like to take my time going through content, getting to know my guild and finding the right guild to run with (i.e. having the same mindset, goals ect.) and most importantly having fun. If I have need of things from the store in order to make that process a possibility I hope it is there, not an advantage mind you, but the things that are needed to survive while looking for my home guild.
I am not one to start a game and spam the shout channel for a group/guild, I am the kind of player who if/when I run across somebody who I think is on same quest as I am, to send a tell and ask if they would like to group up, then depending on how it goes, group more with same person or continue on until I find a guild that would seem like they have same mindset. If I don't find a group I would like the option of henchmen that can help me through until I do. I don't think that would be a game breaker or a "pay to win" aspect.
Gear on the other hand is something I wouldn't want to see in the store, unless it is a cosmetic thing. Be it low, mid or high level gear.
Yeah I'm pretty much of the same mind, I have my set group of folks to run Dungeons with but if they aren't available I'm not above adding a henchman...frankly I never quite understood those that got all bent out of shape over it. If you don't want to use one fine, just don't try to dictate others fun or accessibility.
Honestly everything Cryptic has told us leads me to believe it won't be pay to win to most rational people, but of course there will always be someone on the forums accusing them of it, no matter what they do.
I believe Neverwinter will be a fun game to play. I'm sure it won't be a "pay to win" game, and what items will be in the store is still something we can only guess at (unless I missed something from the Dev's). Putting the status of DDO and others aside and get back to the topic at hand, I for one am confident that Neverwinter won't go the "pay to win" route, that would ruin it. I am a casual player in the aspect of I like to take my time going through content, getting to know my guild and finding the right guild to run with (i.e. having the same mindset, goals ect.) and most importantly having fun. If I have need of things from the store in order to make that process a possiblility I hope it is there, not an advantage mind you, but the things that are needed to survive while looking for my home guild.
I am not one to start a game and spam the shout channel for a group/guild, I am the kind of player who if/when I run across somebody who I think is on same quest as I am, to send a tell and ask if they would like to group up, then depending on how it goes, group more with same person or continue on until I find a guild that would seem like they have same mindset. If I don't find a group I would like the option of henchmen that can help me through until I do. I don't think that would be a game breaker or a "pay to win" aspect.
Gear on the other hand is something I wouldn't want to see in the store, unless it is a cosmetic thing. Be it low, mid or high level gear.
About the payment route I agree with you at least partly. There should not be available to buy the best gear. However if someone wants to make it easier for him/her self with buying(with real money) low-mid level gear during level process then so be it.
I sincerely do not like your talk about cosmetic things. Reminds me of silly Guild Wars 2 where you can reach Powerplateau in less then 2 weeks and I mean with having a real life and full time work.
I have very difficult to estimate(unknown), but Nevewinter MMO I don't believe it will be necessary WOW everlasting lootmill, but neither will it be a casual carebear game like Guild Wars 2. The above statement in regard of powerprogression and not how challenging Dungeons are. We do know that there are random loot drops in the Dungeons and there exist an Auction House(ingame money I believe) in the game.
Finally we have the toolset FOUNDRY and I think it will be a keyfactor for new playable content that will be constantly released. The big unknown part is the PvP. We know only that it will be included at some point, but we don't know anything about the PvP. I would not be surprised if Cryptic would finally decide that PvP will be included post release.
Much has been written about the cash models being used for various games. It is my opinion (could be incorrect) that the developers will not permit players to buy their way to the top. When I consider all the games I have played, I really can't think of a good example in which this has been permitted to happen. I'm sure, having written this, that someone can cite an example, but it is a rarity, not the normal standard.
As for the original question, do I think it will be fun? Heck yeah I do, or I wouldn't be a member of this community! There are few games out there that interest me, but when there is one, I tend to be a long time player. Right now, I'm fooling around a bit with another game, but it hasn't captured my imagination and really doesn't hold much interest for me. I do believe that the approach the developers are taking in creating this realm for us to game in is a correct one. The Foundry will go a long way towards providing end-game content that seems to always be a sticking point for MMO's.
So like the bullk of the members of this forum, I'll continue to wait, following the advances being made, and salivating at the chance to get into the game and see what it has in store for us as players, and as developers!
A little bit of pay to win isn't always a bad thing.
"says a casual player" *ducks and rolls backwards to exit*
b:laugh Yeah and that was one of my points last night; yeah there was outrage on the forums when LOTRO did the really modest armor set but it made record sales for almost two months. And I'll be a lot of the ones screaming about it on the forums were also the ones that were buying it.
Kinda like Evangelist love/hate relationship with prostitution. :P
And I'll be a lot of the ones screaming about it on the forums were also the ones that were buying it.
That's the norm of the world and I'll admit to doing it myself.
Thing that always bugged me is that just because it is wrong doesn't mean people won't buy it and a lot of times the company's are too ignorant to listen to that fact.
Two examples from a previous game:
This game had a very strict "real life circumstances have to mean nothing in game" policy for many years. Then they added in "vanity items" which could only be aquired through payment options...that in itself didn't bother me. What bothered me is that these items had to be aquired from, say, buying a payment card from GameStop in the US Only. If players lived in any other country they got the shaft.
That was wrong. Period. I don't care what kind of deal the developers made it's wrong to say 'f you' to large portions of your players with a promise that the offer might be available to other regions in the future.
Being that I live in the US and that I actually used that Payment Method anyway I got the vanity item but still spoke out against it.
When the game went past horrid vanity item promotions they actually went full on into pay to win methods while claiming they weren't pay to win. I spoke out long and hard and this was one of the responses I got from the Community Management Team:
We're just trying it out to see if it works. If we find any marketing strategy doesn't work we won't do it again.
I basically knocked myself out from *facepalming* since every post I ever wrote on the subject clearly stated I believed the marketing devices would sell well but would destroy the actual game for legitmate players. There are plenty of people willing to buy success in games but it doesn't mean it's a good idea to cater to such players.
I am all for companies making a profit. Afterall the more profit they make the more likely they will care about improving the game for existing and future customers. But any marketing strategy has to cater for existing and future customers rather than be at the expense of the current customer base.
From everything I have heard from Cryptic about their plans for NW I am truly hopeful that they won't go the route of this other company. Bags, Inventory Slots, Character Slots, Foundry Content Slots...the list goes on...go for it. But personally I don't want to see any weapon or armor piece with stats on it in the cash shop with decent stats.
But as always I'm not too nit-picky about small strays from the path. A little pay to win won't kill the game for me as long as they stick to their cosmetic and convenience only claims a great majority of the time.
I am all for companies making a profit. Afterall the more profit they make the more likely they will care about improving the game for existing and future customers. But any marketing strategy has to cater for existing and future customers rather than be at the expense of the current customer base.
That's very eloquently stated.
I'm sure a little pay2win will be tolerated fine for the most part. As long as they stick to their overall premise, which I really think they will (I am concerned about the grab bag system they employed in other cryptic games however), then I think we are good.
vindiconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
Well, no matter how the cashshop is stractured in f2p games, paying players will always have some kind of tangible advantage over the non-paying ones. There is no avoiding it, that's how it works. The question is how much of an advantage that will be.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, how much and what kind of an advantage you can give to paying players depends on what you're shooting for in your game. If you're going for highly competitive stuff, you're already flirting with "pay2win" even with simple convenience items. If you're going for a largely pve-centric experience on the other hand, you can go very deep into the whole "selling power" thing and, if careful, still not have any meaningful negative impact on the actual game balance.
From a PVE player standpoint, I'm pretty fine with what PWE are doing with most of their games (from a PVPer standpoint though it's blatant pay to win, but again, I don't care about PVP all that much). I absolutely hate what Turbine does on the other hand, since their "f2p" model is largely a glorified demo...
Well, no matter how the cashshop is stractured in f2p games, paying players will always have some kind of tangible advantage over the non-paying ones. There is no avoiding it, that's how it works. The question is how much of an advantage that will be.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, how much and what kind of an advantage you can give to paying players depends on what you're shooting for in your game. If you're going for highly competitive stuff, you're already flirting with "pay2win" even with simple convenience items. If you're going for a largely pve-centric experience on the other hand, you can go very deep into the whole "selling power" thing and, if careful, still not have any meaningful negative impact on the actual game balance.
From a PVE player standpoint, I'm pretty fine with what PWE are doing with most of their games (from a PVPer standpoint though it's blatant pay to win, but again, I don't care about PVP all that much). I absolutely hate what Turbine does on the other hand, since their "f2p" model is largely a glorified demo...
Yeah I agree and feel the same way, my daughter is a big PWI and Forsaken world player so I'm pretty familiar withe PWE cash shop system..so far so good and if you combine that with Cryptic's hard lessons and knowledge, it has the makings of a top notch system
Comments
Mostly a pug almost always had one zerger, who was sometimes bad, sometimes good (e.g. knowing when not to wake up the sleeping trogs). Many quests as pit gave a great sense of accomplishment also - they were long and taxing. But then only some quests were popular and many quests which gave less XP/rewards were often ignored(very few did carnival before epic). So the need of hireling was felt as no one would do those quests. However, what made DDO strong was not actually loot but people - and taking foolish risks and surviving (I played as full plate cleric and always ran to pull ice while others gasped).
But game design of DDO is completely different from cryptic. If you play CO or STO you know that rewards are equally divided. There is no set chest for bloodstone which needs to be run for 200 times a day in a really <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> way (I hated it when 2 people in my group got it the first time they came to sands while us others were running for days!). Any chest can have bloodstone so you are not forced to play a particular content because of specific loot - just play a content at specific level.
This design is less vulnerable to exploitation. So I do like cryptic way more. Have a lot of content and equalize loot so all kinds of people can play. While DDO has often been trying to make it hard for exploiters to exploit, cryptic has just taken out the reason to go for an exploit itself which is genius.
But it seems in DDO's rush to be first, this NWO game delayed to do it right and now people on the DDO end got the rush job decision of speed over quality and paid for a lot of bugs (some the worst seen in seven years,) and the prevous issues still are not fixed (as a matter of fact iof reports are to be believed, lag is WORSE sometimes.) To keep a game good, address your core base, your core goals and your future goals not to conflict with those first two things. After seeing that company also freed from Atari's gray business decisions, it breaks my heart to see how this was "decided" there.
If ever there could be two D&D MMO games running side by side for those who want turn-based theme 3.5 and live action fast paced 4th edition inspired, these were to be the ones. Now what unfortunately Aandre listed is true, and it hurts DDO after one of the most amazing comebacks ever done....
And for no reason, I think I'll comment after all and say this MMO can be fun, but watch out for those who need to learn how to learn to attack and run multiple directions AND block/use utility powers. Just a spontaneous comment now I've looked at some more video/demo close up and decided to comment after all....
My wife n I payed for the xpack 50 bucks each n we no longer play for much of what andre has said.
I was always a pugger I pugged my way to my pink swords I pugged my way to my eclaw set, i pugged my way to my red dragon scale (the new version) etc etc all this on khyber.
The pug group lately have gone to hell to many peeps that stoned to level up and don't know wth they are doing to the point you rarely find decent groups other than in channels and even then channels have been sucky slow.
In the last 2 weeks I've run one hard shroud and was bored to tears...even my guildies are bored and some went to gw2, the rest are just working on their alts as the guild has many altoholics...
Until some bugs are fixed and they add more content i will keep messing around various forums and wasting my time in allods, how sad is that frackking allods !!!!
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I respect your opinion and your personal experience but this isn't about how many agree with who, the thing is just because the pug population has diminished really doesn't mean the games profitability has diminished last quarter DDO profit was up from the previous year and the main source of that profit came from the cash shop and VIP memberships not the expansion, also the number of log ins stayed pretty much steady with last years numbers..that is hardly a sign of a broken busted community just one that may be changing direction but is still profitable.
Anyway yeah it's going to be interesting to see what DDO does to compete with NWO, I think there will be attrition but my point was and is that attrition hasn't happened yet despite the perception.
It's hard to discuss these thing accurately as only ddo knows for sure but one thing i am sure of is that the community now sucks major bad for new players and even for older player that like to pug.
This isn't an opinion, pugs have gone down drastically. Hell most older player avoid pugs like the plague now seeing as even raids can be short-manned rather easily.
Also I know it's not a popularity contest, when I say I agree with "so and so" it's so I don't have to type the same thing as they have already.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
But subs are down in Q3, and with dwindling playerbase those margins are already going south. If you don't see attrition, you either arent playing DDO or haven't left the "Lobster"... in a year.
Im sorry Storm, but you just don't have a grasp on this.
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No I agree with you pugs have gone down drastically, but the other services have increased or have stayed the same, it's not empirical evidence but my consulting firm has eight people at Turbine working on DDO and LOTRO and I tend to believe what they say.
Can you point me to the numbers Andre? I would truly like to see them and compare the to what I have been told.
The way I see it is that that the ddo pug scene is how you gauge the future for ddo, guild/channel runs are too muh like static groups.
Doesn't mean it won't change thought.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
/shrug
Maybe so..but it hasn't happened yet at least not the attrition that is perceived of in this thread and that was kinda my original point.
Aandre can keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about but really that's just his opinion.. doesn't make it so.
Let's hear the numbers you've "been told." Please be specific.
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No need to be snarky Aandre
I wasn't give specifics (sorry when you are talking to colleagues they usually don't hand you metric sheets) I related to you what I was told by consultants on the ground at Turbine, and since I haven't seen any hard numbers from you ( you did say the numbers dropped in Q3 and I would think if you said that you would have said numbers right?) I have to take that as valid information.
Come on Storm, I dont mean to be snarky but you just arent making a lick of sense to me, or probably to anyone who plays DDO currently.
You don't seem like you are even playing the game any longer the way you are talking. You can't possibly argue that the PUG scene has improved, or even remained the same as it was pre-MotU, and forget about comparing the way it was last year or the year before.
My "numbers" come from discussing guild business with dozens of organized guild leaders on a daily basis. Being very active on the DDO forums. Discussing topics such as these from those in the media/podcast community. Oh, and looking at the LFMs every night and SEEING MAYBE ONE OUT OF EVERY TWENTY GROUPS FILL!
Please Storm, if you have numbers to the contrary, please PM me what you've got, report it here, or log onto DDO and tell me how many groups you see up that are leaving filled, as opposed to those sitting with 1 or 2 players for an eternity.
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Whoa whoa are you even reading what I said? ( no of course not you're just trying ever so hard to win a argument /eyeroll)
I just told pilf3r that I agreed that the pug numbers were going down but overall the profitability and log ins according to people I work with have either increased or have stayed the same.
Maybe if you go back and actually read instead of jumping to conclusions yet again just because you have "issues"
You stated twice now that you have numbers to back up your assertions based on data you've been given from your "colleagues" at Turbine. Well, since you've made that much public, why dont you share the numbers (heck something even in the ballpark would be an interesting read), instead of playing a guessing game with people who actually play the game. That's not being snarky. That's not opinion. It's a request.
So please forgive me when I just don't believe a word you are saying. As soon as somebody disagrees with you or doubts your assertions you get defensive and call people names, such as the "issues" remark, or in the last thread you went haywire for six pages when you thought people were manipulating votes just because I asked the mods some questions.
Its no big thing Storm, everyone is wrong on occasion. You should just own up to it when you are... that's all I'm saying. It will save us all a whole lot of unnecessary reading.
I'm going to drop it now and go to bed. Goodnight man.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Whatever Aandre only you could get that out of the conversation in this thread, you are obviously still pissed about many people thinking something was up with your sudden mod poll and now have an axe to grind.
And the issues remark wasn't a insult it was a observation on your passive aggressiveness, backpedaling, editing and hypocrisy that has earned you the name "Aandre the ogre" by many on this forum You can tell a developer how tense and worked up he is just because he calls you on your BS, you can give back handed remarks like kiss <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and fan boy but you can't take the fair observation.
Anyway in the future I will try not to step in your bloviating no matter how ridiculous and inane I find it.
Selling XP boosts? Fine.
Selling skins ect? Fine.
Even selling Mid tier Gear Fine.
But if you sell anything that gives you even a slight advantage in completing the hardest current content **** that ****. Like what the hell is the point in even playing the game for free at that point? What matters is completing content quickly and having the rewards for it when it matters.
In my eyes if you sell the ability to do the hardest content easier, or compete in pvp easier the game isn't free to play. Honestly it should be titled "free to sample" or something.
I am not one to start a game and spam the shout channel for a group/guild, I am the kind of player who if/when I run across somebody who I think is on same quest as I am, to send a tell and ask if they would like to group up, then depending on how it goes, group more with same person or continue on until I find a guild that would seem like they have same mindset. If I don't find a group I would like the option of henchmen that can help me through until I do. I don't think that would be a game breaker or a "pay to win" aspect.
Gear on the other hand is something I wouldn't want to see in the store, unless it is a cosmetic thing. Be it low, mid or high level gear.
Yes, we c...
but then I saw that this time it has the word "will".
...
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Time, tell will!
Yeah I'm pretty much of the same mind, I have my set group of folks to run Dungeons with but if they aren't available I'm not above adding a henchman...frankly I never quite understood those that got all bent out of shape over it. If you don't want to use one fine, just don't try to dictate others fun or accessibility.
Honestly everything Cryptic has told us leads me to believe it won't be pay to win to most rational people, but of course there will always be someone on the forums accusing them of it, no matter what they do.
About the payment route I agree with you at least partly. There should not be available to buy the best gear. However if someone wants to make it easier for him/her self with buying(with real money) low-mid level gear during level process then so be it.
I sincerely do not like your talk about cosmetic things. Reminds me of silly Guild Wars 2 where you can reach Powerplateau in less then 2 weeks and I mean with having a real life and full time work.
I have very difficult to estimate(unknown), but Nevewinter MMO I don't believe it will be necessary WOW everlasting lootmill, but neither will it be a casual carebear game like Guild Wars 2. The above statement in regard of powerprogression and not how challenging Dungeons are. We do know that there are random loot drops in the Dungeons and there exist an Auction House(ingame money I believe) in the game.
Finally we have the toolset FOUNDRY and I think it will be a keyfactor for new playable content that will be constantly released. The big unknown part is the PvP. We know only that it will be included at some point, but we don't know anything about the PvP. I would not be surprised if Cryptic would finally decide that PvP will be included post release.
As for the original question, do I think it will be fun? Heck yeah I do, or I wouldn't be a member of this community! There are few games out there that interest me, but when there is one, I tend to be a long time player. Right now, I'm fooling around a bit with another game, but it hasn't captured my imagination and really doesn't hold much interest for me. I do believe that the approach the developers are taking in creating this realm for us to game in is a correct one. The Foundry will go a long way towards providing end-game content that seems to always be a sticking point for MMO's.
So like the bullk of the members of this forum, I'll continue to wait, following the advances being made, and salivating at the chance to get into the game and see what it has in store for us as players, and as developers!
My Best,
Ezra Steel
"says a casual player"
*ducks and rolls backwards to exit*
b:laugh Yeah and that was one of my points last night; yeah there was outrage on the forums when LOTRO did the really modest armor set but it made record sales for almost two months. And I'll be a lot of the ones screaming about it on the forums were also the ones that were buying it.
Kinda like Evangelist love/hate relationship with prostitution. :P
Oh cool new sig BTW gillrmn
Thanks. Keep an eye and it will wax and wane with the moon phases too. (today is full moon).
That's cool I have a really nice animated one but sadly we can't use them here.
That's the norm of the world and I'll admit to doing it myself.
Thing that always bugged me is that just because it is wrong doesn't mean people won't buy it and a lot of times the company's are too ignorant to listen to that fact.
Two examples from a previous game:
I am all for companies making a profit. Afterall the more profit they make the more likely they will care about improving the game for existing and future customers. But any marketing strategy has to cater for existing and future customers rather than be at the expense of the current customer base.
From everything I have heard from Cryptic about their plans for NW I am truly hopeful that they won't go the route of this other company. Bags, Inventory Slots, Character Slots, Foundry Content Slots...the list goes on...go for it. But personally I don't want to see any weapon or armor piece with stats on it in the cash shop with decent stats.
But as always I'm not too nit-picky about small strays from the path. A little pay to win won't kill the game for me as long as they stick to their cosmetic and convenience only claims a great majority of the time.
That's very eloquently stated.
I'm sure a little pay2win will be tolerated fine for the most part. As long as they stick to their overall premise, which I really think they will (I am concerned about the grab bag system they employed in other cryptic games however), then I think we are good.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, how much and what kind of an advantage you can give to paying players depends on what you're shooting for in your game. If you're going for highly competitive stuff, you're already flirting with "pay2win" even with simple convenience items. If you're going for a largely pve-centric experience on the other hand, you can go very deep into the whole "selling power" thing and, if careful, still not have any meaningful negative impact on the actual game balance.
From a PVE player standpoint, I'm pretty fine with what PWE are doing with most of their games (from a PVPer standpoint though it's blatant pay to win, but again, I don't care about PVP all that much). I absolutely hate what Turbine does on the other hand, since their "f2p" model is largely a glorified demo...
Yeah I agree and feel the same way, my daughter is a big PWI and Forsaken world player so I'm pretty familiar withe PWE cash shop system..so far so good and if you combine that with Cryptic's hard lessons and knowledge, it has the makings of a top notch system