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Official: Unbind Tokens

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  • datarider#1036 datarider Member Posts: 206 Arc User


    The current planned rollout is that 10 Unbind Tokens cost 100 Zen.
    An example item that can be unbound is coal wards for 80 tokens.

    800 zen to unbind a coal ward seems really expensive when you could just buy a coal ward for 1000 zen.
    you can even for 800, because cupon :D
  • grandforest#4819 grandforest Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    However, it should be borne in mind that such tokens must also be obtained through the game.
  • gor1llaf1stgor1llaf1st Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    this is a great idea... for 2018 =) so is this the end then for account bound equipment going forward to push the unbind tokens? please keep some stuff like rings and comp gear account bound and not char bound. alliance battlehorns would be nice, though julia mentioned a possible new one in event in a few weeks. pretty sure everyone wants to unbind rib cage and tier 3 power shirt.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,936 Arc User
    Well, how about adding at least a certain amount of those "Unbind Tokens" per month to ViP?
    I mean, we're sitting on Rank 12 for a very long time now, how about adding a few more ranks with interesting rewards to it?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,400 Arc User
    edited October 15



    "Don't you think 800 Zen to unbind a 1000 Zen item is too expensive?"

    If you're buying it for 1000 Zen, it is unbound and you can do what you want with it from the get go. Yes, if you have a coupon or wait for a sale you can get it cheaper than 1000 Zen. On the other side, if you get a bound coal ward from invocation, or from a free giveaway, and you don't need it, then now you have an option to unbind it and trade it off at a fair value. We wouldn't turn around and make something that costs 1000 Zen to buy, have a 100 Zen unbind cost after you got it for free. That would devalue the entire item, including all the ones players already own.

    And that will be one of the areas we will be looking at with this feature over time, the costs to unbind items. It is a new system Neverwinter hasn't had before and prices will likely get adjusted over time as we work to find the spot that feels good to use and retains the value of items players have worked hard to earn.

    With this being the plan, I don't expect many coal wards to have their binding status changed. We'll just continue to use them to make base weapon/armor enchants and sell them for approx 400k-500k.

    Trade it off at fair value? It's 800 zen to unbind it. This leaves us the option to trade it off at the cost of the unbind tokens.
  • venuslightheartvenuslightheart Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    Some items should be have automatic unbound to Account option for purpose of organzing your toons, alts and inventory at no cost to player - Dungeon Shards, Coffer donation vouchers and few other items.
  • organius#4038 organius Member Posts: 29 Arc User

    Thanks @noworries#8859 for work on a feature that was requested since the bind status exists.

    I see everytime the endless debate about "everything should be unbound" vs "you must earn your items and everything should be bound". I want to say few things about this:

    - The game originally was designed in the "everythign should be unbound" scenario, and one of the reasons we have the backlog in the ZAX now is the changes to most of the items being bound. There is no motivation to change ZEN for AD because you cant buy anything for AD that is not in the ZEN store.
    - When most of the items are unbound, people have allways motivation to run content, the game is much more active and "live" because the people who already have everything, still have motivation to run content, not only to be richer, but also to teach new players in his alliance the mechanics and help them gearing, or make giveaways in guild / alliance. If all is bound, you run the content until you have the items and thats it. That content is dead for lots of players.
    - All the items should be obtainable in a reasonable amount of time or money. Is unnaceptable to have items that you can never get because of RNG and bind status. In the worst case we should have a limit in runs or some currency to get the items. The actual system only frustrate players and thats the worst feeling in a videogame.

    I know I wont make anyone change his opion about this, but people should keep in mind that the Free to play model is not the same as other models, and neverwinter was allways a "pay to fast" model, and buying items for real money to skip running the content was one of the core features of this game from the beta. Maybe you dont like it, but it worked well in the best years of NW.

    Unbind tokens can work if they target the correct items. Gear from hunts, rings and reagents from VOS are examples that can work, making people run the content to sell items, making people buy zen to make items unbound, and making people buy zen to exchange for AD to buy this items. But if they target other kind of items, it will be a total fail and waste of manpower.

    The idea of putting a requisite in items is not bad, and used in other games, for example, if you could unbind reagents for ring of air, a restriction should be run VOS Hardcore 20 times (just an example), but I think it can be a lot of work for developers unless they already have implemented stats of the runs for each character.

    If I had to make everyone happy, I would put rare transmutes BOUND in dungeons / hunts / etc. That you cant sell (unbound tokens should not work with this items), and all the items that make your character progress, unbound or unbound with this new tokens, so the fashion is what tells people that you grinded for something or made a hard task.

    I totally agree with this guy.Look at lineage 2.After you switch to new equipment or weapons, you can sell the old one and compensate for the costs.Or you can offer your old equipment, pay extra and buy a new one.Also, I agree that the players, after receiving what they needs, will not go to the same dungeons again.
    And everyone who says that these changes will break the economy is just a monopolists.Because,I don't see anything wrong with the fact that there will be more players who will be able to offer various items to sell.This is how the economy works in MMORPG,where players is the power that regulate it.
    I also think that everything,that is sold in the Zen store should be account bound but not unbound.If a player wants to sell it at auction house, he will have to buy these tokens and it makes sense.Because, game economy suffers from some players,who is buys item's for the real money from ZEN store and sell it for AD at auction house.This is the reason why we have such a big backlog in the zen exchange.
  • kaksika88#1477 kaksika88 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Please add the old transmutes that you have placed back into the game with the new adventuring system, examples like: Greatsword of the Shadow Wolf; Mindflayer Belt; Ruined Cape... These items are purely cosmetical. They don't affect gameplay at all.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited October 15
    I don't know what I would like to unbind but I know for sure what absolutely SHOULDN'T be possible to unbind:
    1.Equipment from T2-T3
    2.Vos rings
    3.Weapons from zariel/tomm
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    mushellka said:

    I don't know what I would like to unbind but I know for sure what absolutely SHOULDN'T be possible to unbind:
    1.Equipment from T2-T3
    2.Vos rings
    3.Weapons from zariel/tomm

    Why?
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Member Posts: 134 Arc User

    Thanks @noworries#8859 for work on a feature that was requested since the bind status exists.

    I see everytime the endless debate about "everything should be unbound" vs "you must earn your items and everything should be bound". I want to say few things about this:

    - The game originally was designed in the "everythign should be unbound" scenario, and one of the reasons we have the backlog in the ZAX now is the changes to most of the items being bound. There is no motivation to change ZEN for AD because you cant buy anything for AD that is not in the ZEN store.
    - When most of the items are unbound, people have allways motivation to run content, the game is much more active and "live" because the people who already have everything, still have motivation to run content, not only to be richer, but also to teach new players in his alliance the mechanics and help them gearing, or make giveaways in guild / alliance. If all is bound, you run the content until you have the items and thats it. That content is dead for lots of players.
    - All the items should be obtainable in a reasonable amount of time or money. Is unnaceptable to have items that you can never get because of RNG and bind status. In the worst case we should have a limit in runs or some currency to get the items. The actual system only frustrate players and thats the worst feeling in a videogame.

    I know I wont make anyone change his opion about this, but people should keep in mind that the Free to play model is not the same as other models, and neverwinter was allways a "pay to fast" model, and buying items for real money to skip running the content was one of the core features of this game from the beta. Maybe you dont like it, but it worked well in the best years of NW.

    Unbind tokens can work if they target the correct items. Gear from hunts, rings and reagents from VOS are examples that can work, making people run the content to sell items, making people buy zen to make items unbound, and making people buy zen to exchange for AD to buy this items. But if they target other kind of items, it will be a total fail and waste of manpower.

    The idea of putting a requisite in items is not bad, and used in other games, for example, if you could unbind reagents for ring of air, a restriction should be run VOS Hardcore 20 times (just an example), but I think it can be a lot of work for developers unless they already have implemented stats of the runs for each character.

    If I had to make everyone happy, I would put rare transmutes BOUND in dungeons / hunts / etc. That you cant sell (unbound tokens should not work with this items), and all the items that make your character progress, unbound or unbound with this new tokens, so the fashion is what tells people that you grinded for something or made a hard task.

    Agree with everything here.

    To add - go through and fix the bind status on the current items in the game. There is no reason, for instance, that class specific items drop in Vallenhas as character bound to classes that can't use them. It's also unacceptable that this is still happening and hasn't been fixed.

    Also fix bound items that don't stack and should. As an example I have stacks of account bound pres wards and coal wards that won't stack with each other. Stacks of account bound scrolls that won't stack with each other. Stacks of character bound wards that won't stack with each other, etc.

    Fix your bugs before you go adding new ones.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    mushellka said:

    I don't know what I would like to unbind but I know for sure what absolutely SHOULDN'T be possible to unbind:
    1.Equipment from T2-T3
    2.Vos rings
    3.Weapons from zariel/tomm

    Why?
    Because at this moment this is the only one indicator of what you represent in the game.
    If I gather a party on a channel, I expect to finish the content, not to waste three hours to carry a vegetable with purchased TIL that doesn't know the mechanics of dungeon but also its own class.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • olocancom#0595 olocancom Member Posts: 42 Arc User



    - All the items should be obtainable in a reasonable amount of time or money. Is unnaceptable to have items that you can never get because of RNG and bind status. In the worst case we should have a limit in runs or some currency to get the items. The actual system only frustrate players and thats the worst feeling in a videogame.

    So much this. The frustration caused by RNG has driven several friends and alliance members away from this game.

  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    this will break the game, cash players with max knowledge to farm items, the class they play and queued content mechanics will make more ad by selling thosen items in ah while casual players will just buy from them
  • chano13#9005 chano13 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    Can you make these tokens earnable through chests or boss drops instead of making them available in zen store lately I feel like their no more incentive to play the game anymore when you add items like these for zen you make easy for anyone to just pay to advance instead of making these items as an achievement for getting through a dungeon like in tiamat you get achievement rewards aside from the chest just a thought
  • x10110100x10110100 Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited October 15

    unbind re-roll tokens :D

    +1
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    mushellka said:

    Because at this moment this is the only one indicator of what you represent in the game.
    If I gather a party on a channel, I expect to finish the content, not to waste three hours to carry a vegetable with purchased TIL that doesn't know the mechanics of dungeon but also its own class.

    This is not an argument that works against the unbind tokens. You can buy T2/T3 gear and move VoS rings around because they're BtA. There are no guarantees to get a quality party based on gear alone. Imho the best way is to build a reliable friends list over time. If you want experience players only then a system like queue group conditions make much more sense. Like limiting eligible players to those that have completed the content X times or hold a certain achievement.
    arcanjo86 said:

    this will break the game, cash players with max knowledge to farm items, the class they play and queued content mechanics will make more ad by selling thosen items in ah while casual players will just buy from them

    What's bad about this? I think everything that potentially rewards gameplay without dictating the type of content is great and desperately needed. I agree that this should not lead to a complete devaluation of items, but history shows that it's not a legitimate concern. Much less because the amount of unbind tokens is limited and costly due to it being a ZEN item.

    Neverwinter is very one-dimensional in how to acquire certain stuff. Having the option to run content yourself or just farm ADs and buy something means giving more choice to players.

    And for the seller? We've long advocated for more unbound loot. If it's gated behind the ZEN market fine, but it's progress. The latest loot definitely should be included, otherwise the system kinda misses the point. I even think you should make a small amount of unbind tokens available from ingame activities, like the Reaper's Challenge vendor or Legacy Campaign Quests.
  • sergey235711sergey235711 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited October 16
    > @mushellka said:
    > I don't know what I would like to unbind but I know for sure what absolutely SHOULDN'T be possible to unbind:
    > 1.Equipment from T2-T3
    > 2.Vos rings
    > 3.Weapons from zariel/tomm

    Unbinding Vos rings and Weapons from zariel/tomm - is a great solution to fight with speculants, who sells these items by abusing bugs.

    I don't see any reasons to block unbinding the equipment from avernus hunt - these items freely sells at the moment, so unbinding won't change anything.
  • reapermanaus#2689 reapermanaus Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    I have a BIG problem with Cryptic calling maybe 30 Dungeon Runs at an hour each to get 1 Coal Ward for "FREE", that's 30 hours and that's if your lucky, now if you work it at people get paid just $10 an hour to work we are talking $300 for maybe a Coal Ward, or 12 hours of continuously converting wondrous cogs to make 12 creation bags because the RNG always wants to fail you at 80%, to get maybe a coal ward or some pres wards for "FREE", my hand eyes and brain hurt from that. So maybe think again when you call something we work really hard to MAYBE get for 'free'.

    I have spent thousands on this game upgrading characters to watch you then nerf the character I made Legendary from Uncommon but they gave everyone 20 companion tokens so that makes up for the 1000s I used yeah. I don't like anything that makes people buy Zen to then be able to trade something they already had to work hard to get, it is making someone work for the money to buy a car they buy the car and then making them pay again to be able to actually sell it when they want to.

    If you want to implement this it should only be in the Bazaar, If people then want to buy Zen to convert to Astrals to buy these tokens fine, but it should not be a Zen market item.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    mushellka said:

    Because at this moment this is the only one indicator of what you represent in the game.
    If I gather a party on a channel, I expect to finish the content, not to waste three hours to carry a vegetable with purchased TIL that doesn't know the mechanics of dungeon but also its own class.

    This is not an argument that works against the unbind tokens. You can buy T2/T3 gear and move VoS rings around because they're BtA. There are no guarantees to get a quality party based on gear alone. Imho the best way is to build a reliable friends list over time. If you want experience players only then a system like queue group conditions make much more sense. Like limiting eligible players to those that have completed the content X times or hold a certain achievement.

    If someone had completed vos multiple times on their main character, they are chances that he plays alt as well. So, what's the argument? Of course I have a friends list, but I play at unusual hours, so I want to know with who I'm dealing with.
    I don't want to deal with "casual players" who can't get the rings by themselves. . .
    And I don't believe in any player grouping system. It never worked and it doesn't work.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    > @mushellka said:
    > I don't know what I would like to unbind but I know for sure what absolutely SHOULDN'T be possible to unbind:
    > 1.Equipment from T2-T3
    > 2.Vos rings
    > 3.Weapons from zariel/tomm

    Unbinding Vos rings and Weapons from zariel/tomm - is a great solution to fight with speculants, who sells these items by abusing bugs.

    I don't see any reasons to block unbinding the equipment from avernus hunt - these items freely sells at the moment, so unbinding won't change anything.

    If it won't change anything, why undind?
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited October 16
    mushellka said:

    And I don't believe in any player grouping system. It never worked and it doesn't work.

    That's kinda what I was saying. Your issue is one of group composition or queue system, not unbind tokens. It would be very unfortunate if people really object the unbind system just because they rely on gear to judge player skill. It's two different things that shouldn't conflict with each other.

    I btw. think you're overreacting a little bit as well. V.O.S. Completed for example requires to show one ring. Is this a great indicator of dungeon experience? No. But I'm having a completely chill time there in both normal and HC mode and have yet to experience any issues with players that do not know mechanics.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    @noworries#8859 do we have any list of items to use the unbind token as of now? the most use for this will be reward rerol tokens on all alts that players havent been using and storing them from the vip,

    for the coalward you mentioned, there was problem with some wards that were btc is they were making the enchantments/runestones upgraded with it, making them bound to character because of its bound status, the bound problem was made by the dev team, milking playerbase to buy unbind tokens for that really? with a discount vouchers players will buy coalwards from zen store and make more ad rather than bother with removing bound from a coalwards for 800 zen. if the ratio was 1:1 you would milk the playerbase way faster, if ad to zen ratio is 1 zen is 750 ad, 800zen to unbind is 600k ad to unbind it, player is basicly paying same value of ad they would pay for a coalward in ah in first place xD

    when the new sharandar campaign shop was implemented the gear player buys is btc after they buy them, why btc in the first place? why not bound to account after you buy them? and why doesn't it have all classes gear on same shop as bound to account in first place? is because of time gated 2nd currency, why not make the 2nd currency require half the seal value or even same amount of seal required so the player actualy plays the game for the 2nd currency in the first place without the daily limit of the currency.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    You've already stated that they won't work on mounts & companions that have been equipped by a player - will they work on ones that haven't been equipped but received from a chest etc?
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  • deathdealer#5883 deathdealer Member Posts: 4 Arc User


    Equipped mounts and companions don't work with this system.

    Let us know your thoughts and suggestions.

    "Equiped" So what you are saying is that i can claim account legendary/mythic mounts from the reclaim agent, then unbind them and sell them because they were not equiped right?...... LOL

  • finality999#7648 finality999 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    A lot of good suggestions have been put forward, BtA and BtC were likely done to keep quest rewards on the character that earned the right to have the item. If you make such items free then the auction house will be flooded with thousands of items that players who have low to no AD trying to earn currency to buy other things to strengthen their character's builds or fulfilling their versions of appearance with super high priced transmog items that only the AD rich can buy.

    As stated with 'forumaccount', they pointed out that if 80 tokens is 800 zen, you can buy a coal ward for 800 zen with the 20% discount coupon, that being noted, the cost for your 'tokens' should be far less, like half of your proposed cost. The types of things you can free up should never be any item that was yours to earn by completing quests or... many will not like this idea, but as a prime example, those players who have worked their butts off doing Avernus hunts, to finally get the devil's rib cage, a good idea for such is that they can only change that to 'account bound' in order to put it on an alt otherwise you introduce (as a few other players have noted) 'a club of the rich folks who don't have to work for one moment in game but only buy their gear and run rampant in the Neverwinter world,' causing havoc with their high iLv gear they don't know how to play yet. This would likely upset the majority of the Neverwinter players and cause more dissention in that ranks over the long run.

    Good items to put forward as being released would be artifacts and the sets they are part of, rings and necklaces too as pointed out a number of comments, alts can use these same things to either level up or play though content the main already has. When I bought my 'gold bypass ring' for about 3 million AD, (when the affix's were ridiculously high), putting the same ring on an alt would have cost the 3 mil again and again, etc. Even if you choose to remove the BtC attribute, consider making it back to BtA and those items that become BtA on equipping, make them back to free once the tokens are applied, this just puts things back to original item state and allows a player to choose what to do. One thing that this scenario is equivalent to is buying a brand new car, paying the tax on it, using it, putting mileage on, wearing out the drive train and engine, then selling it, it gets a new owner, and they have to pay 'tax' again on it, this is the unbinding token, you can see where this is going, some cars get bought and sold a dozen times before they are junked to the scrapper.

    I don't want to be the party pooper, but In playing the devil's advocate here, please consider the genie you are letting out of the bottle with this unbinding token. I see an AD auction market going ballistic if too many highly sought after items are now freely available, further placing most of the player's in a farming AD mode to buy stuff for their toons, and allowing the rich to get richer because they can.

  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 797 Arc User
    All gear going right back from the start of the game to now.
    All transmutes going right back from the start of the game to now not yet put in the new format appearance library.
    All artifact weapons going right back from the start of the game to now.
    All weapons going right back from the start of the game to now.
    All artifacts going right back from the start of the game to now.
    All enchants of all kinds.
    Totally unbound with no restrictions.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    mushellka said:

    And I don't believe in any player grouping system. It never worked and it doesn't work.

    That's kinda what I was saying. Your issue is one of group composition or queue system, not unbind tokens. It would be very unfortunate if people really object the unbind system just because they rely on gear to judge player skill. It's two different things that shouldn't conflict with each other.

    I btw. think you're overreacting a little bit as well. V.O.S. Completed for example requires to show one ring. Is this a great indicator of dungeon experience? No. But I'm having a completely chill time there in both normal and HC mode and have yet to experience any issues with players that do not know mechanics.
    I don't know where you even got the idea that we'd take a person with one purple ring?
    It takes a lot more than one run to get the legendary rings you want.
    If someone has a properly builded character (weapons, artifacts, gear and rings appropriate to their class and role) then he is welcome.
    You can buy insignias, mounts, companions and artifacts. You'll have to get the rest by yourself. And I think it should stay this way.
    What would be the point of games if everything could be bought? What's the point of even playing when you can buy the best items and then, stand in the enclave to shine?
    I can help someone complete a vos as long as I know that this person needs to be taught and carried. I have no problem with that.
    But no way for a scammer with purchased TIL, a complete lack of knowledge what is he doing and expecting us to carry him.
    I won’t agree for it.
    On the other hand. Why a vegetable who can't play needs the best equipment and vos rings? Neither rings nor gear will play for him. This is already visible in RTQ. Haven't you had enough?
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
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