test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official: Unbind Tokens

124

Comments

  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User
    mushellka said:


    I don't want to deal with "casual players" who can't get the rings by themselves. . .
    And I don't believe in any player grouping system. It never worked and it doesn't work.

    This elistist argument again. Everyone has his first time doing things, if this was applied to you when you went the first time to VoS you wont ever get the first ring to enter into the "elite group that can get the ring by themselves"...

    Now I undertand your argument about not let players buy the best items, then they will be like you... because you judge if someone is good or bad just looking at his inventory. So sad.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • tommy069#5108 tommy069 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 16
    > @armadeonx said:
    > Valuing the tokens at 80% of the Zen price when a person can buy the item from the Zen store with a voucher will make it the same price.
    >
    > Is that what you guys are going for? I don't think people actually want them for wards anyway, it's more like bound enchantments and equipment like rings, transmutes, maybe even artifacts to move them between toons.
    >
    > Also, I hope you guys aren't planning on increasing the number of bound items to boost sales of these tokens.

    One assumes the vouchers will also apply to the Tokens?
    So, unless they are only available in small denominations, this would also make them cheaper at the same rate of exchange as the Coal Ward. (Typically, 20% off...)
    Plus there's plenty of times during the year when the prices are reduced.
    I don't see it being much different to Pres Wards in that regard...

    One hopes they will sell them in bundles of different sizes. 10, 50, 100 would be my suggestion. (No discount on volume, of course... just for convenience.)
    If you need 80 of the buggers to do one Coal Ward, they best not be in batches of 10 for 100 Zen a pop.
    Post edited by tommy069#5108 on
  • tommy069#5108 tommy069 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    > @"nova#2306" said:
    > Can the unbind tokens be used to unbind Dread Vault and all old dungeons(including og CN) from Tales of Old and bind them to the queue system in the game? :)
    >
    > all jokes aside though.
    > Will this unbind token change the binding status of something that's Character Bound to Account Bound?
    > Will this unbind token change the binding status of something that's Account Bound to Unbound?
    >
    > How will this reflect on people unbinding their Ring of Darkness Band of Air for like 10Mil (so people will have things they never actually did the content to even earn in the first place) - that's one of my concerns..
    > You could save up X amount of AD buy the latest greatest item. but never have step foot in that content before.. and have no knowledge or experience on the content you're doing. I hope this is limited..
    >
    > Reroll tokens please

    I wonder how long the end gamers who DO earn that stuff would hang on to their moral high ground when they realise that as soon as new content drops with better gear, that they could off-load their suddenly redundant gear for a hefty wedge?

    Or how long they would ponder putting a top end item on an Alt, or just Unbind it and flog it on the AH when they get a duplicate?

    To be honest, end gamers spending Zen to Unbind stuff, with Whales dumping Zen on the Exchange for AD to buy them wouldn't exactly hurt the economy...

    I'm all for earning your gear, (and even if I don;t have the stuff, I'll never spend stupid amounts on something that will lose value quickly) but the game needs financial stability, and the economy needs a lift.

    It wouldn't be like when a sexy new companion or mount drops in a lock box and if you wait long enough the price drops.
    These items would COST players to unbind, so the cost to the buyer would always reflect that amount of investment on the AH, so even if dozens of people suddenly dump them on the market the cost will be prohibitive to many because undercutting will never reach a point where they are actually "cheap".

    My suggestion would be that the "Unbind" price on current content gear would be very high, and reduce every time a new mod drops. So it might cost 200 tokens for a Bound VoS item, and drop to 100 when new gear replaces it in Mod 22, then drop to 50 the next time new gear arrives where it might remain or drop further over time.
    This might involve a bit more work from the devs, but shouldn't be difficult to create a standard algorithm to do it automatically, if manual maintenance is deemed too... "time consuming."
  • tommy069#5108 tommy069 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    @"noworries#8859"
    I can't seem to find any mention of whether the Unbind Tokens will work as an account wide currency like Zen, or a character currency like Guild Marks.
    Will the account amount show up on all characters?
    If not, will they be transferable, through the shared bank?

    It would not be without its own sense of irony if Unbind Tokens were... Bound to Character on Pickup
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    mushellka said:


    I don't want to deal with "casual players" who can't get the rings by themselves. . .
    And I don't believe in any player grouping system. It never worked and it doesn't work.

    This elistist argument again. Everyone has his first time doing things, if this was applied to you when you went the first time to VoS you wont ever get the first ring to enter into the "elite group that can get the ring by themselves"...

    Now I undertand your argument about not let players buy the best items, then they will be like you... because you judge if someone is good or bad just looking at his inventory. So sad.
    Well, no. First time I did vos on a preview, learning along with all the pt. No one had to carry me, none of us did. That's the difference you don't seem to grasp.
    Do not apply your notions to me, for I have never required anyone to carry. Just don't.

    You, me, anyone are not forbidden to train on the preview without burdening anyone with their indolence. Only absolute selfish and claimant people screw into pt to carry them.

    You want me to help you? Ask me, I'll be happy to do it. But don't pretend to be someone you're not.

    And you know what? If I had to buy a ring because I couldn't get it any other way, I'd rather not have it at all. . .

    And how am I supposed to judge players if not by what they represent, how they play? After the sweet words on chat?
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    mushellka said:

    I don't know where you even got the idea that we'd take a person with one purple ring?
    It takes a lot more than one run to get the legendary rings you want.
    If someone has a properly builded character (weapons, artifacts, gear and rings appropriate to their class and role) then he is welcome.
    You can buy insignias, mounts, companions and artifacts. You'll have to get the rest by yourself. And I think it should stay this way.
    What would be the point of games if everything could be bought? What's the point of even playing when you can buy the best items and then, stand in the enclave to shine?
    I can help someone complete a vos as long as I know that this person needs to be taught and carried. I have no problem with that.
    But no way for a scammer with purchased TIL, a complete lack of knowledge what is he doing and expecting us to carry him.
    I won’t agree for it.
    On the other hand. Why a vegetable who can't play needs the best equipment and vos rings? Neither rings nor gear will play for him. This is already visible in RTQ. Haven't you had enough?

    I think we have to agree to disagree because you keep bringing up points that do not pertain to Unbind Tokens. I don't even disagree with some stuff you say, but these are not issues Unbind Tokens should handle or prevent you from. It's a purely economic system that facilitates the diversity of playstyles.
  • bioniksystembioniksystem Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Hello. Can these unbind tokens be obtained in any other way than in the Zen Market? For example in dungeon chests such as companion tokens, mounts tokens, or wards? Ty
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited October 16

    mushellka said:

    I don't know where you even got the idea that we'd take a person with one purple ring?
    It takes a lot more than one run to get the legendary rings you want.
    If someone has a properly builded character (weapons, artifacts, gear and rings appropriate to their class and role) then he is welcome.
    You can buy insignias, mounts, companions and artifacts. You'll have to get the rest by yourself. And I think it should stay this way.
    What would be the point of games if everything could be bought? What's the point of even playing when you can buy the best items and then, stand in the enclave to shine?
    I can help someone complete a vos as long as I know that this person needs to be taught and carried. I have no problem with that.
    But no way for a scammer with purchased TIL, a complete lack of knowledge what is he doing and expecting us to carry him.
    I won’t agree for it.
    On the other hand. Why a vegetable who can't play needs the best equipment and vos rings? Neither rings nor gear will play for him. This is already visible in RTQ. Haven't you had enough?

    I think we have to agree to disagree because you keep bringing up points that do not pertain to Unbind Tokens. I don't even disagree with some stuff you say, but these are not issues Unbind Tokens should handle or prevent you from. It's a purely economic system that facilitates the diversity of playstyles.
    Of course, they're pertain to tokens.
    I explained why unbinding rings from vos, weapons from tomm/zariel and better eq from T3 is detrimental in the bigger picture. So much for that. The rest is the answer to your "why" question.

    "It's a purely economic system that facilitates the diversity of playstyles." It's nothing but an excuse for your own ineptitude.

    Adding an currency with possibility to choose one particular ring is one thing, buying a ring without making a step in vos is a second thing.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • ukspawnukspawn Member Posts: 365 Arc User
    Posted on page 1, started to re-read through, after seeing "somethings" mentioned one to many times, i'll just reiterate in shorts,

    DO NOT REQUEST ITEMS FOR THIS SYSTEM THAT SHOULD BE UNBOUND BECAUSE THEY WERE CHANGED PREVIOUSLY FROM THAT STATUS AT SOME POINT OR ANY ITEMS THAT VERY VERY EASILY SHOULD BE CHANGED AS THE MOST BASIC OF QOL CHANGES.

    Requests of those items are literally feeding into the "create a problem, sell the solution".

    My request is to put the unbind token idea to the side (like right to side, under that massive pile of existing issues) and start a new "unbinding idea" through qol, for free! yes F R E E. I know, I'm crazy right?!?!

    Or to be more reasonable, do both together.

  • booyin1#6837 booyin1 Member Posts: 8 Arc User

    unbind re-roll tokens :D

    And that accounts with 50 alts will get the most advantage of this haha =)

  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited October 17
    mushellka said:

    Adding an currency with possibility to choose one particular ring is one thing, buying a ring without making a step in vos is a second thing.

    Again, you want a better group composition or queue system that let's you filter out certain players you don't want to play with. Your "bigger picture" is just an excuse for your elitist attitude. If you think legendary rings are an achievement you shouldn't be able to buy, be proud that you did it without AD instead. If you use gear as main judgement of skill, change your methods. You are apparently doing it wrong anyway.

    Achievements and royalty items should be the way to "shine" btw. We have Banners etc. If you're so keen of showing the world who you are, then sport those achievements and items.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    > @nova#2306 said:
    > Can the unbind tokens be used to unbind Dread Vault and all old dungeons(including og CN) from Tales of Old and bind them to the queue system in the game? :)
    >
    > all jokes aside though.
    > Will this unbind token change the binding status of something that's Character Bound to Account Bound?
    > Will this unbind token change the binding status of something that's Account Bound to Unbound?
    >
    > How will this reflect on people unbinding their Ring of Darkness Band of Air for like 10Mil (so people will have things they never actually did the content to even earn in the first place) - that's one of my concerns..
    > You could save up X amount of AD buy the latest greatest item. but never have step foot in that content before.. and have no knowledge or experience on the content you're doing. I hope this is limited..
    >
    > Reroll tokens please

    I wonder how long the end gamers who DO earn that stuff would hang on to their moral high ground when they realise that as soon as new content drops with better gear, that they could off-load their suddenly redundant gear for a hefty wedge?

    Or how long they would ponder putting a top end item on an Alt, or just Unbind it and flog it on the AH when they get a duplicate?

    To be honest, end gamers spending Zen to Unbind stuff, with Whales dumping Zen on the Exchange for AD to buy them wouldn't exactly hurt the economy...

    I'm all for earning your gear, (and even if I don;t have the stuff, I'll never spend stupid amounts on something that will lose value quickly) but the game needs financial stability, and the economy needs a lift.

    It wouldn't be like when a sexy new companion or mount drops in a lock box and if you wait long enough the price drops.
    These items would COST players to unbind, so the cost to the buyer would always reflect that amount of investment on the AH, so even if dozens of people suddenly dump them on the market the cost will be prohibitive to many because undercutting will never reach a point where they are actually "cheap".

    My suggestion would be that the "Unbind" price on current content gear would be very high, and reduce every time a new mod drops. So it might cost 200 tokens for a Bound VoS item, and drop to 100 when new gear replaces it in Mod 22, then drop to 50 the next time new gear arrives where it might remain or drop further over time.
    This might involve a bit more work from the devs, but shouldn't be difficult to create a standard algorithm to do it automatically, if manual maintenance is deemed too... "time consuming."

    in regards of whales dumping zen on ad to zen exchange, not even on the right mind they would dump zen there, it is way more profitable to buy key items from zen store (preswards, coalwards, companion packs, lockbox keys for the resale of the drops are the most common pratice when they buy it on discount) to sell in ah, dump zen in the zax is a waste of money.
  • walker#8832 walker Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Specific items I would use them on:

    The barovian and undermountain arm pieces that have the gold generation ability. They are part of the free gear sets you get at the beginning of those campaigns, and they are the only two such items in the game. By the time I realized that on my main I had unfortunately tossed them because of limited storage space. :/

    Potion bar clicky items that are old/rare/unavailable, or time consuming to obtain. For example a guildmate mentioned an owl bear figurine they would like to move to the toon they now run, if I remember that right, was that from the Portabello event way back? Possibly the chain of scales and forgers box, go ahead and discuss if that grind should be mandatory for every alt toon you want them on or not.

    Certainly enchantments, especially weapon and armor enchantments.

    How I would like the unbind to work:

    I would like it to remove all bind characteristics entirely. I don't want it to just "reset" the bind so that I can switch something to another character just once and then need another unbind token to do it again. I want to be able to bounce an item back and forth between toons using it on whichever I happen to be playing, or wherever I want to try something out, and I want to be able to lend it to a guildmate to use for a while or trade it to someone.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    mushellka said:

    Adding an currency with possibility to choose one particular ring is one thing, buying a ring without making a step in vos is a second thing.

    Again, you want a better group composition or queue system that let's you filter out certain players you don't want to play with. Your "bigger picture" is just an excuse for your elitist attitude. If you think legendary rings are an achievement you shouldn't be able to buy, be proud that you did it without AD instead. If you use gear as main judgement of skill, change your methods. You are apparently doing it wrong anyway.

    Achievements and royalty items should be the way to "shine" btw. We have Banners etc. If you're so keen of showing the world who you are, then sport those achievements and items.
    You're confusing the issue once again. It's NOT ME who wants to shine, it's me who wants to prevent a useless noob from shining with an item he bought without ever setting foot on any hard dungeons!

    Because it won't help him, but make me a harm, because I'll take this worthless thing for a dung.

    There is a bunch of people who are ready to spend fortune for gear from recent content just a hours after launch, just to shine. I get it, people want to sell stuff to make profit from playing hard content. But should be some limitations, because I don’t want to play with such „experts”.

    Amen. I'm not responding to your provocations anymore, because my hands have already fallen off.

    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    unbind re-roll tokens :D

    And that accounts with 50 alts will get the most advantage of this haha =)

    Who's stopping you from having 50 characters on your account?
    Do it and reap the same benefits.
    Haha :D
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 23 Arc User


    Again, you want a better group composition or queue system that let's you filter out certain players you don't want to play with. Your "bigger picture" is just an excuse for your elitist attitude. If you think legendary rings are an achievement you shouldn't be able to buy, be proud that you did it without AD instead. If you use gear as main judgement of skill, change your methods. You are apparently doing it wrong anyway.

    Achievements and royalty items should be the way to "shine" btw. We have Banners etc. If you're so keen of showing the world who you are, then sport those achievements and items.

    There is no other way to estimate player skill and competence than looking on gear. What is the other way when you gathering party and inspecting a player? Think about it as ranks in military. When you want to know how a given soldier is important you looking on his uniform and rank insignia. Would be bad if private soldier could buy a general rank just for some amount of $…
    This is why I’m against possibility to buy literally everything.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    I have another association with it.
    I shouldn't judge anyone by their looks or the quality of their equipment, but by the size of their wallet :)))
    Really funny.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • ewjax#5077 ewjax Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    Let the tokens unbind anything possible, I have no issues with the people paying to play (the people who keep the game going and allow Cryptic to pay salaries, hosting charges, bandwidth, etc) being able to buy the best end game gear if they wish, its would also be a good source of AD for the free to play players willing to farm the right equipment to sell.
  • Guess the first post will be a land mine. Ah well.

    Good evening, this is a terrible idea. I don't say so as a hater, but as a player assessing value. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside of raid-locked loot and farm-locked items such as Juma Bags or Avernus treasures, the core player issue seems to be items they want to shuffle loot within their own account, and/or sell them at the AH. That's based on two page reads (sorry, pg 3, I was cooking), and on and off conversations over a year and a half with various players and my own attempts to convince people the game is pretty dang fun come join me. That established, I have to ask the CMs who I assume are not the devs but do pass the messages along: is there a logical reason the company wishes its customers to pay for a problem they, themselves generated?

    I would regard the subject of locked items as resolved at least on surface: obviously, certain items should not be allowed access to AH. Artifact Weapons, certain artifacts maybe (like the Class Sigils), and whathaveyou–other such items apparently are code-grouped and need far more examination (mounts). That leaves a door open for I'd think the various campaign currencies and the populated weapons that have amassed since day one, mod one. Now, keeping in mind the game also has a live economy that can be easily sunk, so some care obviously has to be tendered. I hesitate to think any one item aside of making Coal Wards absolutely dirt cheap (a pipe dream of $2 instead of $10—personal aside, is there a reason so many players keep saying Zen when it's actually dollars that are being moved? Just askin'). But introducing these unlock coins seems, at a glance, to just be a roundabout answer to the points made in this paragraph and on these earlier posts. In that it addresses none of them, but instead puts the possibility of more limited trade behind a paywall. Certainly the players don't want to have to fork over dollars for what they view, by and large, as a quality of life and bug issue generated on the developer/publisher side.

    I won't bother to speculate as to the WHY of how this came to be, aside of some people not thinking when they state they'd pay arms and legs to unlock a breastplate that's insanely hard to get so as to rack up some AD, or drop all those do-not-want rings out of their vaults to free some inventory slots. What goes on behind the doors of your company is between y'all and the execs & investors...or it is until the bad presentation ideas come our way. And under shame of repeating myself, this is a bad idea as its presented. There's no advantage to us to incentivize its use.

    That asked, I imagine this inquiry will not actually reach ears, so let's get to the speculative part where I'd be willing to actually pay for such a feature:

    Eschew the coins entirely and make it a VIP feature. Unlock all but the vital pieces of campaign/adventure currencies that would actually cause game & game economy issues. Don't cap those currency movements. Unlock the refinement stones & marks as well. Character to Account unlocks for equipment & accessories likewise should be open. However, on full unlocks for the purpose of selling on AH, limit it to a number per week, with no stacking function (Example: 5 full unlocks a week. You don't use them that week, they don't roll over). Of course, don't unlock the weapons—we need to keep working for those. Adjust your VIP prices accordingly and it should all swim pretty well.

    I'm aware that creates a have/have nots issue, but that's not really an issue as it's exactly what the AH was created to address. I'm not one to police what players want to buy & use, even if they never set a finger into the content that granted said weapons & items. If I were, then I'd have to kick myself because it'd take a helluva time for me to gather party to go digging through Castle Never drops organically as opposed to just buying the outdated set on AH. I think the grumpiness there can just be resolved by taking the situation case by case—general mandates on specific person-to-person issues never end well.

    But yeah, I kvetched enough. Cheers.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited October 18
    If unbound of the rare dungeon loot is allowed to be sold in AH, it means it will go back to Mod 3 era. I foresee I will see the 20 million AD (unbound cost/markup included) ring again. I am not saying that has to be a bad thing. Dedicated farming teams (which would stop after the team members got what they need) will be formed again to farm for profit. The old glory days ...
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User

    If unbound of the rare dungeon loot is allowed to be sold in AH, it means it will go back to Mod 3 era. I foresee I will see the 20 million AD (unbound cost/markup included) ring again. I am not saying that has to be a bad thing. Dedicated farming teams (which would stop after the team members got what they need) will be formed again to farm for profit. The old glory days ...

    I still have a split loot sheet from CN somewhere inside Google Drive, lol!

    Anyway, that's what I meant saying history shows that most concerns raised here are not legitimate. I get that the @mushellka s of the world feel their own status threatened by wallet warriors and I actually share some of the criticism. But overall the benefits are greater and if you want to challenge the system you would need to explain why it'll be bad for the economy.

    There is no other way to estimate player skill and competence than looking on gear. What is the other way when you gathering party and inspecting a player? Think about it as ranks in military. When you want to know how a given soldier is important you looking on his uniform and rank insignia. Would be bad if private soldier could buy a general rank just for some amount of $…
    This is why I’m against possibility to buy literally everything.

    Build a friends list, participate in private channels, and join an active PVE alliance. I rarely inspect anyone and if I do pug I know what I'm getting into... I don't know but it feels like you're just trying to defend an elitist attitude and don't want your own achievements to get devalued. But if that's important to you I'd suggest to change your mindset and be proud that you did it without spending AD or even $. There's a lot of satisfaction to gain from that as well. And hey, if you really need appreciation from an online game I guess you can show achievements and other bound royalty items.

    There are already solutions to your issues and you do not not need unbind tokens to solve them.
  • ewjax#5077 ewjax Member Posts: 55 Arc User

    If unbound of the rare dungeon loot is allowed to be sold in AH, it means it will go back to Mod 3 era. I foresee I will see the 20 million AD (unbound cost/markup included) ring again. I am not saying that has to be a bad thing. Dedicated farming teams (which would stop after the team members got what they need) will be formed again to farm for profit. The old glory days ...

    Band of Air would go for far more than 20M AD, it takes a ton of work, unless your the person that wins lotto on the first ticket.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Thinking about the Band of Air I realized the system also has great potential to prolong content. I currently have no desire to play HC VOS because I own my set and additionally have tons of 1500 gear for alts. But the ability to unbind certain stuff would make me do HC VOS nonstop in case I have the ZEN. Good times.
  • blackmagidblackmagid Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 93 Arc User
    I like the idea of unbind tokens it was great to be able to move my staff of flowers to a different character on my account. I would like to think that the tokens would be available using AD, reroll tokens (dungeon loot) as well as Zen?

    From my own perspective though I would like you guys to create a class reroll token (wizard to anything else) - for me, that would be something very useful.

    Thanks
    Black
  • rocketabbyrocketabby Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Full disclosure: I have not looked at the professions/masterwork yet on preview.
    Would tools and artisans be eligible to be unbound?

    Maybe someone has, but I didn't see a mention re inventory bags. I have purchased the new 60 slot bags, yet I have 12/24/pick-a-number slot bags that are bound to character. Would those be eligible for unbinding?
Sign In or Register to comment.