micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
How the hell Antialiasing and Anisotropic filtering have to do with directX 10 vs 11+ ? Those existed in directX 9 or 10.
Lets talk about: Compute Shaders (how we make those nice water, clouds or even terrain, even with ages old Perlin noise) And in general running shaders on buffers Tesselation Blending modes. Multihreaded rendering
But lets not stop here, if we don't need to support ages old outdated no idea what, maybe we (or more like the Devs) can have nice things like
Graphics hasn't changed much by AA and anisotropic texturing. Just better performance.
Both those features lower FPS and performance to get better visuals.
Antialiasing requires rendering higher resolution texture than the target then dither it to blend the lines, which costs performance, and Ansotropic requires calculating the view-port position / angle, instead of simple distance to show the mipmap.
Neverwinter is 2013, it's old and changing the graphics simply can't be done! This game developed around 2011 or 2012 and released in 2013. Changing the game simply can't be done, that's like remaking the game! So truly Cryptic is making an unintelligent decision *excuse me* I'm not trying to insult. Changing the graphics completely can't be done! That requires remaking the full game! LEAVE THE GAMES AS THEY ARE! YOU'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING!
1. I don't see how you are qualified to state that. 2. I advice you to compare screenshots of the game at release and now before stating such absolutes.
@micky1p00 That requires remaking the full game for the most part! Target some slight more settings, but have Direct 11 be turned on once those settings are enabled. Other than that, the game isn't changing much with other graphics settings set period! What is Cryptic going to do? Get rid of old graphics settings like 2X-4X? I know for a fact that changing the Directx 11 isn't changing much on this game. Also OS is totally irrelevant.
I'm seriously done discussing, however for some reason I'm getting lots of agrees on my posts. I just keep coming back, because I have something to state my mind with. However, clouding people and not thinking for the community, when you don't know is selfish. I always think for the community and myself. Also I'm not the only one with this situation. So technically why does it matter to you? Every time I deal with people, there is always toxicity somewhere. Always these selfish acts.
Again truth be told is simply.
Portions of playerbase are.
Windows 7 with Directx 10 Windows 7 with Directx 11 or higher Windows 8 with Directx 10 Windows 8 with Directx 11 or higher Windows 10 with Directx 10 Windows 10 with Directx 11 or higher
Not everyone has high-end hardware. Yes most have Windows 10. However, I discussed that most of these people were forced without consent. That's history! Most people hate Windows 10 with a passion, but have to adjust to it! Which explains to why Mac Apple has increased sales of the years. It's because Microsoft forced people to upgrade without consent. There many people who love Windows 7, because they like how it functions. Those people wish they could go back, but they have to deal with what they have, which is Windows 10. Again that's history and that chart I showed proved that.
Post edited by mwk on
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
That requires remaking the full game for the most part! Target some slight more settings, but have Direct 11 be turned on once those settings are enabled. Other than that, the game isn't changing much with other graphics settings set period! What is Crypic going to do? Get rid of old graphics settings like 2X-4X? I know for a fact that changing the Directx 11 isn't changing much on this game. Also OS is totally irrelevant.
What directX levels have to do with x2-x4 settings?? Those are 100% unrelated things.
The game is much more than the rendering pipeline, why would anyone need to remake the full game?
And again, settings have noting to do with directX, it's about what hardware you can access and how you do it, and how much work you need to do to get things done. Supporting legacy systems prevents from using new features. Not being able to use freely hardware that is around for years and used in every game is just sad and kills faster the already not so fresh game.
Why is everyone not even reading by full? These games aren't changing much. Will lower AA and anisotropic left over really matter, when Cryptic just wants to run Direct 11? Meaning why run 2X-4X, when it's there left over from the games? Reworking graphics requires a full overhaul on remaking the game! That's a waste of time! All I'm showing it's a foolish decision, because it makes no sense! Just forcing a Directx 11 and higher OS, because they want to! That's my argument.
I might as well suck it up that I will be gone until I can afford a new computer after February-15-2022, though I will miss a lot of gamer friends I met. These times are rough due to Covid restrictions and some have more Tymora luck than others in life expense. It's not like my characters won't exist, because my account is still here. I just need a game that I love to escape the world at times. It's the reason why MMORPGs exist. I really want to get something worthwhile if I can on new computer. Though I will make statements that Cryptic isn't changing much with this decision. It might as well cost a lot of the playerbase, because those friends will be gone. I'm actually the helper of many people I play with and now I can't simply do that. Taking that away is personal and not everyone can replace that someone for help. I sacrifice a lot for players. I just want to play with people, rather than help myself. Overtime I do help myself, but mostly I help others boost themselves. I sacrifice a lot. There are many reasons unknown how it will impact the playerbase.
You don't know.
Portions of playerbase are. Not everyone has an extreme high-end computer! I'm just asking why change anything? It's really becoming an OS and Directx problem! Not everyone has that!
Windows 7 with Directx 10 Windows 7 with Directx 11 or higher Windows 8 with Directx 10 Windows 8 with Directx 11 or higher Windows 10 with Directx 10 Windows 10 with Directx 11 or higher
I started Neverwinter Online in 2018 actually. I played Tera Online for about 4 years in 2014. Once I quit Tera Online due to incompetent reasons that I will not explain, though if you wish you can look on my YouTube channel that explains it at Phoenix Mist.
Let me explain some occurrences happened to me in the past before 2018. I had to pay for an (used) car after my full blacked out beauty (used) 2008 C6 corvette transmission lines got fried because the person that installed my Bassani exhaust with EG Longtubes simply forgot to tuck those transmission lines! Over time my exhaust just fried those transmission lines. I ended up getting an used Chevy Tahoe to replace my corvette, because I couldn't afford the transmission repairs. Later I had got myself a Samsung laptop to do my touch up photos on, but it got stolen, because my Chevy Tahoe somehow got broken into. That's when I received this Windows 7 with an [I5 M450 @2.40GHz and Turbo boost to 2.6 GHz][8G Ram][Nvidia Geforce GT 325M Cuda 1G ram] given by my cousin, because he simply sacrificed for me. I don't expect it to happen again.
Later got an Apple Laptop to do work around 2016 or 2017 I think, because I didn't like the new Windows 10. So you see, I have my expenses to deal with for the time being. Though right now I simply can't afford much. I could, but I refuse because I want to be safe on myself. My old desktop got forced to Windows 8.1 from Windows Vista. Gosh I still use it with 3G ram and a Nvidia Geforce 6150SE nForce 430. I have an XP also that still runs too with a Nvidia Geforce FX 5200. Why do I need to have all these computers around my house, especially buying a new computer?! I never thought to upgrade, since all my computers still work. I've been in the model industry since 2008 to 2018 retired *cough* don't ask me about that guys-PLEASE! I went back to school to learn to become an esthetician and got certification around 2018 before Covid hit I think. So there is my life. I have priorities! I haven't worked long as an esthetician and I'm only living with my model day investment expenses and selling Norwex products. My life is *hamster* <-insert the word here!
KEEP IN MIND-I can't change laptop internals!
Post edited by mwk on
3
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Neverwinter is 2013, it's old and changing the graphics simply can't be done! This game developed around 2011 or 2012 and released in 2013. Changing the game simply can't be done and that's like remaking the full game completely! So truly Cryptic is making an unintelligent decision *excuse me* I'm not trying to insult. Changing the graphics completely can't be done! That requires remaking the full game and I'm repeating myself for it to soak in! Leave the games as they are! You're not changing anything!
But it can be done, plenty of games have done this. Back to the example I brought up earlier of EVE Online, a game released in 2003, below is a 15 year comparison of what can change (no significant downtimes outside of usual updates).
By dropping outdated stuff that only a very small portion of the population is using, the Developers can have more tools at their disposal. IF the Developers have more tools available, the game might actually run better and provide better graphics.
1
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Why is everyone not even reading by full? These games aren't changing much. Will lower AA and anisotropic left over really matter, when Cryptic just wants to run Direct 11? Meaning why run 2X-4X, when it's there left over from the games? Reworking graphics requires a full overhaul on remaking the game! That's a waste of time! All I'm showing it's a foolish decision, because it makes no sense! Just forcing a Directx 11 and higher OS, because they want to! That's my argument.
I might as well suck it up that I will be gone until I can afford a new computer, though I will miss a lot of gamer friends I met. These times are rough and some have more Tymora luck than others in life expense. It's not like my characters won't exist. My account is still there. I just need a game that I love to escape the world at times. It's the reason why MMORPGs exist. I really want to get something worthwhile if I can. Though I will make statements that Cryptic isn't changing much with this decision.
People might be able to read everything if it's either formatted in an easy to read way, or if you would stop editing your posts by adding entire paragraphs to it.
Just how old is you computer that you can't run Windows 10 or Directx 11?
Neverwinter is 2013, it's old and changing the graphics simply can't be done! This game developed around 2011 or 2012 and released in 2013. Changing the game simply can't be done and that's like remaking the full game completely! So truly Cryptic is making an unintelligent decision *excuse me* I'm not trying to insult. Changing the graphics completely can't be done! That requires remaking the full game and I'm repeating myself for it to soak in! Leave the games as they are! You're not changing anything!
But it can be done, plenty of games have done this. Back to the example I brought up earlier of EVE Online, a game released in 2003, below is a 15 year comparison of what can change (no significant downtimes outside of usual updates).
By dropping outdated stuff that only a very small portion of the population is using, the Developers can have more tools at their disposal. IF the Developers have more tools available, the game might actually run better and provide better graphics.
You know all my characters/account are still alive after February 15, 2022. It's not going anywhere as I stated before. Though I'm just stating my mind. I care about the community, because you don't know how this change will impact the playerbase. I expect that many don't have the most fancy high-end computer. I've gotten agrees on my posts, meaning that I'm not the only one.
Lets talk about: Compute Shaders (how we make those nice water, clouds or even terrain, even with ages old Perlin noise) And in general running shaders on buffers Tesselation Blending modes. Multihreaded rendering
What does it have to do with dropping Windows 7 support? They already support PS4, could you please remind me which DirectX version it runs?
Supporting "legacy systems", that already work, costs nothing. You can have updated rendering for new systems (which isn't coming anyway and will take years to polish if it is) alongside the old one.
2
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Neverwinter is 2013, it's old and changing the graphics simply can't be done! This game developed around 2011 or 2012 and released in 2013. Changing the game simply can't be done and that's like remaking the full game completely! So truly Cryptic is making an unintelligent decision *excuse me* I'm not trying to insult. Changing the graphics completely can't be done! That requires remaking the full game and I'm repeating myself for it to soak in! Leave the games as they are! You're not changing anything!
But it can be done, plenty of games have done this. Back to the example I brought up earlier of EVE Online, a game released in 2003, below is a 15 year comparison of what can change (no significant downtimes outside of usual updates).
By dropping outdated stuff that only a very small portion of the population is using, the Developers can have more tools at their disposal. IF the Developers have more tools available, the game might actually run better and provide better graphics.
YET STILL LOOKS THE SAME! I'm about to facepalm! Did it change anything? Not really!
Oh wow, the shock! Of course things are going to look the same when you've zoomed out to the point where you see just the UI's colored squares. Or the fact that you are looking 3rd party websites in other parts. This is like looking at cities from an airplane and saying that Paris looks like London, or any other city.
And again you talk about fancy high-end computers? Why are you bringing this up? A computer doesn't need anything special to run NW. Windows 8 is a 2012 OS, 2015 for Windows 10, Directx 11 has been around since 2009.
I'll repeat my question. What does it have to do with dropping Windows 7 support?
DirectX has nothing to do with it, Microsoft ended windows 7 support, Cryptic also ended Windows 7 support. But that doesn't say much except no more updates, so if you ask why, allow me a question (or a couple) too:
Lets say I want to upgrade the patchier and the launcher of the game which .net framework I should use? You may noticed that at least the old patched used web display, what browser engine will be used in windows 7? If I try to do something like that in simple .net app? (I'll give you a hint, it is no longer used for years by regular consumers, it had this "e" symbol, and may it never be seen again)
But you understand is that dropping support doesn't mean the game will just stop working the next day. Stopping support is stopping to make sure it does and fix when it doesn't. It means saving exactly that time.
You can run the game on linux, but it doesn't mean that support or anyone at Cryptic will help you do it. Or make sure it works.
I hope it's clear that time wasted on verifying, debugging, and wasting time on older SDKs/API so things work on legacy systems (and yes, windows 7 is legacy, especially since you can still upgrade for free), is time that can be used for other things.
Hence Cryptic checked how much time goes, how much resources it has, and made its decision. It boggles the mind to see people that do not have their numbers or business roadmap or know what issues they have with their code-base tell them what they gain or lose.
But you understand is that dropping support doesn't mean the game will just stop working the next day. Stopping support is stopping to make sure it does and fix when it doesn't. It means saving exactly that time.
Have you read the news? There are no compatibility issues with Windows 7, the game runs perfectly fine on it, but they want to prevent players from launching it on that system.
Hence Cryptic checked how much time goes, how much resources it has, and made its decision. It boggles the mind to see people that do not have their numbers or business roadmap or know what issues they have with their code-base tell them what they gain or lose.
So why don't you share the deep insight you have into their business: exactly how much time goes into what, how expensive it is and who made the decision. Maybe you can also tell us the exact fraction of players affected by this change? Because Cryptic surely isn't telling.
It boggles the mind indeed, that some players are so happy about the devs selling out a portion of the community for a kickback from MS. But it's all good as long as it doesn't affect you, right?
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Lets say I want to upgrade the patchier and the launcher of the game which .net framework I should use?
None. Ever. Nor should you bloat your launcher with a web interface.
But that's how the launcher works. You are free to apply as CTO to Cryptic and change that. I guess you neither use Discord, Anything based on Electron or most cross platform apps.
Hell, all the game menus and panels are HTML, look at the tooltips... The intro menu inside the game with the news.
But you understand is that dropping support doesn't mean the game will just stop working the next day. Stopping support is stopping to make sure it does and fix when it doesn't. It means saving exactly that time.
Have you read the news? There are no compatibility issues with Windows 7, the game runs perfectly fine on it, but they want to prevent players from launching it on that system.
How do you know that it is perfectly fine? Because it works for you? How much resources goes into supporting it? Obviously they decided that it is not worth it. If it worked perfectly fine and had 0 cost, then it wouldn't be considered for removal wouldn't it?
Hence Cryptic checked how much time goes, how much resources it has, and made its decision. It boggles the mind to see people that do not have their numbers or business roadmap or know what issues they have with their code-base tell them what they gain or lose.
So why don't you share the deep insight you have into their business: exactly how much time goes into what, how expensive it is and who made the decision. Maybe you can also tell us the exact fraction of players affected by this change? Because Cryptic surely isn't telling.
Cryptic has the numbers, It's their decision of cost vs benefit and obviously they decided it's not worth to support. So we have someone who has all the info and made the decision, and we have some who tell them them what they should do based on nothing.
It boggles the mind indeed, that some players are so happy about the devs selling out a portion of the community for a kickback from MS.
I'm sure it's kickback, because Microsoft cares what Cryptic targets. Yup, I'll file it under flat earth, we never landed on the moon, and the lizard people have a shadow government.
But it's all good as long as it doesn't affect you, right?
Actually it does affect me, all the time they save by not trying make 10 years old HAMSTER to work, they can make a better game for me. I don't have irrational fear of new things.
I'm dropping this toxic discussion! Again I'm not making much right now at the moment. Sure I could go buy a new computer for $300-$600 with GTX, but it will it be a waste for me on my expenses? I for one want something really worthwhile for myself. So Cryptic is forcing players those that are lower-end to upgrade is simply foolish at the moment, when lots of people have low-end computers! Why should it matter when this game simply plays for you right now?! Why are you arguing with me?
I'm looking at something like RTX Nvidia and those cards simply are expensive alone as an internal ($1000+)! So spending thousands of dollars for something worthwhile will be expensive! I got other expenses to worry about to make up for something! I just started my esthetician job right before Covid hit in 2018! I'm living off my investment and selling Norwex products! I'm being really cautious on my expenses right now on purpose!
If you're still working? Good for you! However, 7.5 million+ people are out of a job! I'm looking for a temporary job and it's hard to get one that pays well with comfort in mind! Could I work at McDonalds for $15 dollars an hour? Maybe? Though some places it's hard because it's over populated with other people that lost their jobs. The equipment at my work is simply too close together to simply work! It's risky for the safety of customers at my workplace because of Covid restrictions! I discussed with you that I'm not making much profit right now! It's rough times right now that I think it's a bad idea! I even made the statement for Cryptic to do this in 2023, which is enough time to adjust. So you want to be happy in the future for this game to run fully on Direct11x, you have that wish! Just not now, because again not a lot of people are making enough profit to upgrade for something worthwhile!
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I'm looking at something like RTX Nvidia and those cards simply are expensive alone as an internal ($1000+)! So spending thousands of dollars for something worthwhile will be expensive! I got other expenses to worry about to make up for something! I just started my esthetician job right before Covid hit in 2018! I'm living off my investment and selling Norwex products! I'm being really cautious on my expenses right now on purpose!
If you're still working? Good for you! However, 7.5 million+ people are out of a job! I'm looking for a temporary job and it's hard to get one that pays well with comfort in mind! Could I work at McDonalds for $15 dollars an hour? Maybe? Though some places it's hard because it's over populated with other people that lost their jobs. The equipment at my work is simply too close together to simply work! It's risky for the safety of customers at my workplace because of Covid restrictions! I discussed with you that I'm not making much profit right now! It's rough times right now that I think it's a bad idea! I even made the statement for Cryptic to do this in 2023, which is enough time to adjust. So you want to be happy in the future for this game to run fully on Direct11x, you have that wish! Just not now, because again not a lot of people are making enough profit to upgrade for something worthwhile!
All of this not relevant isn't it, your current computer supports both windows 10 and directx 11.2 I can find where you wrote it if you need a refresher.
All you need to do is to click in google "windows 10 media creator", download the app, click upgrade, and let it do its thing.
Done, no cost. 0, Zero, nothing, not a single $$ spent.
So lets stop with the new computer and Covid, and costs nonsense.
Again I'm not making much right now at the moment. Sure I could go buy a new computer for $300-$600 with GTX. I for one want something really worthwhile for myself. So Cryptic is forcing players those that are lower-end to upgrade is simply foolish at the moment, when lots of people have low-end computers! Why should it matter when this game simply plays for you right now?! Why are you arguing with me?
Due to several reasons: I want the game to progress. Being stuck supporting irrelevant stuff, are resources that can be used to make a better game.
I don't like liars, and repeating that "Need thousands of dollars to play Neverwinter" is a lie coming from a person whose system does support the requirements.
Third, while there are plenty reasons to bash the Devs over many decisions, some times are not those times.
I'm done... because of people. My graphics card only runs to 11.2, but it's a Directx 10.1 card. Windows 7 comes with Directx 11.
For the love of god. Either the card supports 11 or not. There is no "runs up to 11 but 10". It's a feature set.
If it actually supports then no need to upgrade anything at all.
If it doesn't, yes you will need to upgrade. But you don't need RTX or RT or whatever, any onboard gpu either intel or AMD are better than whatever you had there.
Yes, it's unfortunate, yes you may not be able to play, but Cryptic have to keep the game competitive vs everything that's on the market today, or there will be no new players, only a dying game (not that it is extremely alive now). And to be up to date, with limited resources, hard choices must be done.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I'm done... because of people. My graphics card only runs to 11.2, but it's a Directx 10.1 card. Windows 7 comes with Directx 11.
For the love of god. Either the card supports 11 or not. There is no "runs up to 11 but 10". It's a feature set.
If it actually supports then no need to upgrade anything at all.
If it doesn't, yes you will need to upgrade. But you don't need RTX or RT or whatever, any onboard gpu either intel or AMD are better than whatever you had there.
Yes, it's unfortunate, yes you may not be able to play, but Cryptic have to keep the game competitive vs everything that's on the market today, or there will be no new players, only a dying game (not that it is extremely alive now). And to be up to date, with limited resources, hard choices must be done.
exactly i had posts removed sent to the depths for responding to confused people claiming they will need 1000$ to upgrade cpu video etc to support windows 11 to play the game
confusing the direct x 11 video card requirements with windows 10/ or win 11 optional requirements
ps. there is a small chance the person has dual video card setup and intel onboard + X so essentially 2 cards that support and report 2 different levels of direct x .
Supporting "legacy systems", that already work, costs nothing.
You've clearly never worked a job that required more than a high-school education if you think that's true. It's actually the exact opposite.
I'm one of those poor fools that has to support a legacy system while we try to transition to something "bright-shiny-new". Believe me, it's costing the company more money than it's bringing in. By a landslide.
I just chat with someone (a gamer friend) in the game (Neverwinter Online) and she is still running Windows XP. She is from Germany and speaks fluent English. Again I'm not the only one!
Some people don't work because of disabilities and the government pays a small sum of cash to just live each month, but not enough for luxury. Many people play Neverwinter/StarTrek Online to escape the world. That's what MMORPGs are for. Neverwinter/StarTrek Online attracts low-end gamers as I stated. Cryptic expects everyone to have a GTX graphics card or higher starting February 15, 2022; at least a Directx 11 graphics card. That's not what these games are intended to run on at the moment! I could discuss so much more! I basically have already with previous posts. The best computer I have is a Mac , but it can't play Neverwinter Online. The laptop I'm playing Neverwinter Online on is Windows 7 with a Directx 10.1 graphics card and only can run up to Directx 11.2 just to get a little performance benefit. I can't run Directx 11 fully. I don't want to explain more-Windows 7 comes with Directx 11.
So you don't know how much of the population this will affect?! People in other countries don't make much money too as compared to others. Also I'm not making much profit due to Covid restrictions right now. I might be opening up in November on my job? However, I have lots of investment to make up for what I lost because of the pandemic. I just cut off my cable bill and I'm making some small profit on the side as I stated, which isn't a weekly pay profit; just commission on each sale. 7.5 million+ people are without jobs right now as I researched. There is also a high on suicide rates. Not like I want to commit suicide, but that's the world for you, because many are struggling right now. I'm just making the comment, because it's a fact during this pandemic to prove that many people are struggling on profit. Just Google and you will find what's going on during this pandemic, which is crazy enough to consider these changes at a later time. Suicide has nothing to do with this discussion with me or anyone else! So don't give me HAMSTER responses! Again the comment is only for proving how much the world is struggling right now on making profit. This isn't good time to even change the game to full Directx 11 and OS to Windows 8/10. As I stated, I want to buy something worthwhile. Don't break this Neverwinter/StarTrek community right now! Perhaps 2023?
The problem is that no one knows the population of how much will be affected with these changes given in these hard times, because many people don't have jobs. Some people can't work their jobs, because of a HAMSTER *pardon me* mandate that requires at least a covid vaccine. Meaning some people are allergic to the vaccine and are laid off! These are all facts! Lucky I'm not allergic, however considering other people, I think of them. Some people might as well be playing Neverwinter/StarTrek at a free-WIFI place? Just trying to get a temporary job is quite hard, because it's filled with people that lost their jobs. I don't know right now to even determine my expenses? I'm just being really careful on my expenses on purpose! I might even need to get government pay soon temporarily? Some of my help is coming from my parents, so it's rough for me right now! At least I'm fine for now.
There is so much to discuss on this! I'm sorry, people got expenses to worry about and many people are struggling on making profit right now to afford something new worthwhile! Many people are still getting paid by the government just to live! You're lucky if you can get Food Stamps! I'm just stating real life! This is how the world revolves to live!
What will it take to just not do this right now, until 2023?! That's plenty of time for people to readjust. I'll highly appreciate it. This OS and DirectX changes is simply not the best time!
For anyone that wants to argue with this? Shame on you! I do want Neverwinter/StarTrek to be improved, but just not right now! I strongly encourage anyone to think for the community during these hard times. Although many MMORPGS still run on old Directx and older OS versions. This is the first game that I've seen that changed the requirements, except Fortnite (I've researched), which only updated the requirements to Directx 11 not OS version.
I'm just telling Cryptic this isn't a good time! How much weight of convincing do I need? @nitocris83 Did Cryptic even think about what's going on in the world? I just summed it up. Some are fortunate and some are not.
I've stopped typing for awhile, but this is a lot to consider for the community!
Post edited by mwk on
1
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I just chat with someone (a gamer friend) in the game (Neverwinter Online) and she is still running Windows XP. She is from Germany and speaks fluent English.
Some people don't work because of disabilities and the government pays a small sum of cash to just live each month, but not enough for luxury. Many people play Neverwinter/StarTrek Online to escape the world. That's what MMORPGs are for. Neverwinter/StarTrek Online attracts low-end gamers as I stated. How low-end of computers? No one knows! Cryptic expects everyone to have a GTX graphics card or higher starting February 15, 2022; at least a Directx 11 graphics card. That's not what these games are intended to run on at the moment! I could discuss so much more! I basically have already with previous posts. The best computer I have is a Mac , but it can't play Neverwinter Online. The laptop I'm playing Neverwinter Online on is Windows 7 with a Directx 10.1 graphics card and only can run up to Directx 11.2 just to get a little performance benefit. I can't run Directx 11 fully. I don't want to explain more-Windows 7 comes with Directx 11.
So you don't know how much of the population this will affect?! People in other countries don't make much money too as compared to others. Also I'm not making much profit due to Covid restrictions right now. I might be opening up in November on my job? However, I have lots of investment to make up for what I lost because of the pandemic. I just cut off my cable bill and I'm making some small profit on the side as I stated, which isn't a weekly pay profit; just commission on each sale. 7.5 million+ people are without jobs right now as I researched. There is also a high on suicide rates. Not like I want to commit suicide, but that's the world for you, because many are struggling right now. I'm just making the comment, because it's a fact during this pandemic to prove that many people are struggling on profit. Just Google and you will find what's going on during this pandemic, which is crazy enough to consider these changes at a later time. Suicide has nothing to do with this discussion with me or anyone else! So don't give me HAMSTER responses! Again the comment is only for proving how much the world is struggling right now on making profit. This isn't good time to even change the game to full Directx 11 and OS to Windows 8/10. As I stated, I want to buy something worthwhile. Don't break this Neverwinter/StarTrek community right now! Perhaps 2023?
The problem is that no one knows the population of how much will be affected with these changes given in these hard times, because many people don't have jobs. Some people can't work their jobs, because of a HAMSTER *pardon me* mandate that requires at least a covid vaccine. Meaning some people are allergic to the vaccine and are laid off! These are all facts! Lucky I'm not allergic, however considering other people, I think of them. Some people might as well be playing Neverwinter/StarTrek at a free-WIFI place? Just trying to get a temporary job is quite hard, because it's filled with people that lost their jobs. I don't know right now to even determine my expenses? I'm just being really careful on my expenses on purpose! I might even need to get government pay soon temporarily? Some of my help is coming from my parents, so it's rough for me right now! At least I'm fine for now.
There is so much to discuss on this! I'm sorry, people got expenses to worry about and many people are struggling on making profit right now to afford something new worthwhile! Many people are still getting paid by the government just to live! You're lucky if you can get Food Stamps! I'm just stating real life! This is how the world revolves to live!
What will it take to just not do this right now, until 2023?! That's plenty of time for people to readjust. I'll highly appreciate it. This OS and DirectX changes is simply not the best time!
For anyone that wants to argue with this? Shame on you! I do want Neverwinter/StarTrek to be improved, but just not right now! I strongly encourage anyone to think for the community during these hard times. Although many MMORPGS still run on old Directx and older OS versions. This is the first game that I've seen that changed the requirements, except Fortnite (I've researched), which only updated the requirements to Directx 11 not OS version.
I'm just telling Cryptic this isn't a good time! How much weight of convincing do I need? @nitocris83 Did Cryptic even think about what's going on in the world? I just summed it up. Some are fortunate and some are not.
I've stopped typing for awhile, but this is a lot to consider for the community!
You really need to stop your vast over exaggeration of what the new requirements are. Others have stated that you have the ability to run the new requirements by simply upgrading your OS. Most machines that are 10 years old can run the new requirements. Besides, CRYPTIC knows the numbers, and they have ran the cost benefits of this move. You need a lot more than anecdotal stories or speculation to convince them otherwise.
@arazith07 Excuse me...I have to upgrade the OS and graphics card! Literally buying a new computer! My graphics card is DirectX 10.1 capable and I stated that! The fact you don't read is simply amazing based on how many times you made the statement I can, when I know I can't! The only thing I'm grasping is better Directx 10.1 performance from Directx 11.2...and that's it! Make sense?
I'm trying everything I can to stay in this game. Bad enough I might miss the Echoes of Prophecy opportunities? Well Part 2 mostly. I'm just struggling right now to afford something worthwhile. I'm thinking of getting a 2021 ASUS TUF Gaming F15 laptop with RTX 3060. Look I'm not going to buy something cheaper then buy something really worthwhile later.
You're fortunate and I'm not. Many others are unfortunate too. I'll see how November opens up for me. If not? I don't know.
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited October 2021
Any modern CPU with integrated GPU will run the game better than what you have there, so why you are buying 3060 and a laptop? Then write epoch about the price? This is why desltops are useful.. and you can't leave it in the car..
Neverwinter is a game, not a life necessity, it's not food, shelter, health, electricity etc.. Cryptic have the numbers, they know how many will not be able to play. Not you, they know.
I literally had to upgrade my HAMSTER not too long ago for a game I wanted to buy... Just think of it as a new game. It pretty much is anyway. Nobody's gonna give u your money back if you didn't read requirements on a new game either. And like... Micky is right. Neverwinter runs on potato compared to new games.
Comments
Those existed in directX 9 or 10.
Lets talk about:
Compute Shaders (how we make those nice water, clouds or even terrain, even with ages old Perlin noise)
And in general running shaders on buffers
Tesselation
Blending modes.
Multihreaded rendering
But lets not stop here, if we don't need to support ages old outdated no idea what, maybe we (or more like the Devs) can have nice things like
Ray Tracing, + Hardware bounding volume hierarchy (free collision detection), Better Debugging, Spatial aliasing, denoising, upscaling, DLSS (Nvidia), Mesh Shaders, and more..
So again, yeah, lets throw away all the hardware progress in the last 10 years just because some "Hate windows 10"...
Antialiasing requires rendering higher resolution texture than the target then dither it to blend the lines, which costs performance, and Ansotropic requires calculating the view-port position / angle, instead of simple distance to show the mipmap. 1. I don't see how you are qualified to state that.
2. I advice you to compare screenshots of the game at release and now before stating such absolutes.
I'm seriously done discussing, however for some reason I'm getting lots of agrees on my posts. I just keep coming back, because I have something to state my mind with. However, clouding people and not thinking for the community, when you don't know is selfish. I always think for the community and myself. Also I'm not the only one with this situation. So technically why does it matter to you? Every time I deal with people, there is always toxicity somewhere. Always these selfish acts.
Again truth be told is simply.
Portions of playerbase are.
Windows 7 with Directx 10
Windows 7 with Directx 11 or higher
Windows 8 with Directx 10
Windows 8 with Directx 11 or higher
Windows 10 with Directx 10
Windows 10 with Directx 11 or higher
Not everyone has high-end hardware. Yes most have Windows 10. However, I discussed that most of these people were forced without consent. That's history! Most people hate Windows 10 with a passion, but have to adjust to it! Which explains to why Mac Apple has increased sales of the years. It's because Microsoft forced people to upgrade without consent. There many people who love Windows 7, because they like how it functions. Those people wish they could go back, but they have to deal with what they have, which is Windows 10. Again that's history and that chart I showed proved that.
The game is much more than the rendering pipeline, why would anyone need to remake the full game?
And again, settings have noting to do with directX, it's about what hardware you can access and how you do it, and how much work you need to do to get things done.
Supporting legacy systems prevents from using new features. Not being able to use freely hardware that is around for years and used in every game is just sad and kills faster the already not so fresh game.
I might as well suck it up that I will be gone until I can afford a new computer after February-15-2022, though I will miss a lot of gamer friends I met. These times are rough due to Covid restrictions and some have more Tymora luck than others in life expense. It's not like my characters won't exist, because my account is still here. I just need a game that I love to escape the world at times. It's the reason why MMORPGs exist. I really want to get something worthwhile if I can on new computer. Though I will make statements that Cryptic isn't changing much with this decision. It might as well cost a lot of the playerbase, because those friends will be gone. I'm actually the helper of many people I play with and now I can't simply do that. Taking that away is personal and not everyone can replace that someone for help. I sacrifice a lot for players. I just want to play with people, rather than help myself. Overtime I do help myself, but mostly I help others boost themselves. I sacrifice a lot. There are many reasons unknown how it will impact the playerbase.
You don't know.
Portions of playerbase are. Not everyone has an extreme high-end computer! I'm just asking why change anything? It's really becoming an OS and Directx problem! Not everyone has that!
Windows 7 with Directx 10
Windows 7 with Directx 11 or higher
Windows 8 with Directx 10
Windows 8 with Directx 11 or higher
Windows 10 with Directx 10
Windows 10 with Directx 11 or higher
I started Neverwinter Online in 2018 actually. I played Tera Online for about 4 years in 2014. Once I quit Tera Online due to incompetent reasons that I will not explain, though if you wish you can look on my YouTube channel that explains it at Phoenix Mist.
Let me explain some occurrences happened to me in the past before 2018. I had to pay for an (used) car after my full blacked out beauty (used) 2008 C6 corvette transmission lines got fried because the person that installed my Bassani exhaust with EG Longtubes simply forgot to tuck those transmission lines! Over time my exhaust just fried those transmission lines. I ended up getting an used Chevy Tahoe to replace my corvette, because I couldn't afford the transmission repairs. Later I had got myself a Samsung laptop to do my touch up photos on, but it got stolen, because my Chevy Tahoe somehow got broken into. That's when I received this Windows 7 with an [I5 M450 @2.40GHz and Turbo boost to 2.6 GHz][8G Ram][Nvidia Geforce GT 325M Cuda 1G ram] given by my cousin, because he simply sacrificed for me. I don't expect it to happen again.
Later got an Apple Laptop to do work around 2016 or 2017 I think, because I didn't like the new Windows 10. So you see, I have my expenses to deal with for the time being. Though right now I simply can't afford much. I could, but I refuse because I want to be safe on myself. My old desktop got forced to Windows 8.1 from Windows Vista. Gosh I still use it with 3G ram and a Nvidia Geforce 6150SE nForce 430. I have an XP also that still runs too with a Nvidia Geforce FX 5200. Why do I need to have all these computers around my house, especially buying a new computer?! I never thought to upgrade, since all my computers still work. I've been in the model industry since 2008 to 2018 retired *cough* don't ask me about that guys-PLEASE! I went back to school to learn to become an esthetician and got certification around 2018 before Covid hit I think. So there is my life. I have priorities! I haven't worked long as an esthetician and I'm only living with my model day investment expenses and selling Norwex products. My life is *hamster* <-insert the word here!
KEEP IN MIND-I can't change laptop internals!
By dropping outdated stuff that only a very small portion of the population is using, the Developers can have more tools at their disposal. IF the Developers have more tools available, the game might actually run better and provide better graphics.
Just how old is you computer that you can't run Windows 10 or Directx 11?
YET STILL LOOKS THE SAME! I'm about to facepalm! Did it change anything? Not really!
Supporting "legacy systems", that already work, costs nothing. You can have updated rendering for new systems (which isn't coming anyway and will take years to polish if it is) alongside the old one.
And again you talk about fancy high-end computers? Why are you bringing this up? A computer doesn't need anything special to run NW. Windows 8 is a 2012 OS, 2015 for Windows 10, Directx 11 has been around since 2009.
But that doesn't say much except no more updates, so if you ask why, allow me a question (or a couple) too:
Lets say I want to upgrade the patchier and the launcher of the game which .net framework I should use?
You may noticed that at least the old patched used web display, what browser engine will be used in windows 7? If I try to do something like that in simple .net app?
(I'll give you a hint, it is no longer used for years by regular consumers, it had this "e" symbol, and may it never be seen again)
But you understand is that dropping support doesn't mean the game will just stop working the next day. Stopping support is stopping to make sure it does and fix when it doesn't.
It means saving exactly that time.
You can run the game on linux, but it doesn't mean that support or anyone at Cryptic will help you do it. Or make sure it works.
I hope it's clear that time wasted on verifying, debugging, and wasting time on older SDKs/API so things work on legacy systems (and yes, windows 7 is legacy, especially since you can still upgrade for free), is time that can be used for other things.
Hence Cryptic checked how much time goes, how much resources it has, and made its decision. It boggles the mind to see people that do not have their numbers or business roadmap or know what issues they have with their code-base tell them what they gain or lose.
It boggles the mind indeed, that some players are so happy about the devs selling out a portion of the community for a kickback from MS. But it's all good as long as it doesn't affect you, right?
I guess you neither use Discord, Anything based on Electron or most cross platform apps.
Hell, all the game menus and panels are HTML, look at the tooltips... The intro menu inside the game with the news. How do you know that it is perfectly fine? Because it works for you? How much resources goes into supporting it?
Obviously they decided that it is not worth it. If it worked perfectly fine and had 0 cost, then it wouldn't be considered for removal wouldn't it?
Cryptic has the numbers, It's their decision of cost vs benefit and obviously they decided it's not worth to support. So we have someone who has all the info and made the decision, and we have some who tell them them what they should do based on nothing.
I'm sure it's kickback, because Microsoft cares what Cryptic targets. Yup, I'll file it under flat earth, we never landed on the moon, and the lizard people have a shadow government. Actually it does affect me, all the time they save by not trying make 10 years old HAMSTER to work, they can make a better game for me.
I don't have irrational fear of new things.
I'm looking at something like RTX Nvidia and those cards simply are expensive alone as an internal ($1000+)! So spending thousands of dollars for something worthwhile will be expensive! I got other expenses to worry about to make up for something! I just started my esthetician job right before Covid hit in 2018! I'm living off my investment and selling Norwex products! I'm being really cautious on my expenses right now on purpose!
If you're still working? Good for you! However, 7.5 million+ people are out of a job! I'm looking for a temporary job and it's hard to get one that pays well with comfort in mind! Could I work at McDonalds for $15 dollars an hour? Maybe? Though some places it's hard because it's over populated with other people that lost their jobs. The equipment at my work is simply too close together to simply work! It's risky for the safety of customers at my workplace because of Covid restrictions! I discussed with you that I'm not making much profit right now! It's rough times right now that I think it's a bad idea! I even made the statement for Cryptic to do this in 2023, which is enough time to adjust. So you want to be happy in the future for this game to run fully on Direct11x, you have that wish! Just not now, because again not a lot of people are making enough profit to upgrade for something worthwhile!
All of this not relevant isn't it, your current computer supports both windows 10 and directx 11.2
I can find where you wrote it if you need a refresher.
All you need to do is to click in google "windows 10 media creator", download the app, click upgrade, and let it do its thing.
Done, no cost. 0, Zero, nothing, not a single $$ spent.
So lets stop with the new computer and Covid, and costs nonsense. Due to several reasons:
I want the game to progress. Being stuck supporting irrelevant stuff, are resources that can be used to make a better game.
I don't like liars, and repeating that "Need thousands of dollars to play Neverwinter" is a lie coming from a person whose system does support the requirements.
Third, while there are plenty reasons to bash the Devs over many decisions, some times are not those times.
If it actually supports then no need to upgrade anything at all.
If it doesn't, yes you will need to upgrade. But you don't need RTX or RT or whatever, any onboard gpu either intel or AMD are better than whatever you had there.
Yes, it's unfortunate, yes you may not be able to play, but Cryptic have to keep the game competitive vs everything that's on the market today, or there will be no new players, only a dying game (not that it is extremely alive now).
And to be up to date, with limited resources, hard choices must be done.
what is the exact model and brand of your video card Nvidia XXXX amd XXXX what model ???
how about actually listing the model of graphic card so we can stop all this does it support x direct x 10/11 "hamster"
people you are going around in circles and neglecting to ask a key question
confusing the direct x 11 video card requirements with windows 10/ or win 11 optional requirements
ps. there is a small chance the person has dual video card setup and intel onboard + X so essentially 2 cards that support and report 2 different levels of direct x .
I'm one of those poor fools that has to support a legacy system while we try to transition to something "bright-shiny-new". Believe me, it's costing the company more money than it's bringing in. By a landslide.
(Edit for a typo)
Some people don't work because of disabilities and the government pays a small sum of cash to just live each month, but not enough for luxury. Many people play Neverwinter/StarTrek Online to escape the world. That's what MMORPGs are for. Neverwinter/StarTrek Online attracts low-end gamers as I stated. Cryptic expects everyone to have a GTX graphics card or higher starting February 15, 2022; at least a Directx 11 graphics card. That's not what these games are intended to run on at the moment! I could discuss so much more! I basically have already with previous posts. The best computer I have is a Mac
So you don't know how much of the population this will affect?! People in other countries don't make much money too as compared to others. Also I'm not making much profit due to Covid restrictions right now. I might be opening up in November on my job? However, I have lots of investment to make up for what I lost because of the pandemic. I just cut off my cable bill and I'm making some small profit on the side as I stated, which isn't a weekly pay profit; just commission on each sale. 7.5 million+ people are without jobs right now as I researched. There is also a high on suicide rates. Not like I want to commit suicide, but that's the world for you, because many are struggling right now. I'm just making the comment, because it's a fact during this pandemic to prove that many people are struggling on profit. Just Google and you will find what's going on during this pandemic, which is crazy enough to consider these changes at a later time. Suicide has nothing to do with this discussion with me or anyone else! So don't give me HAMSTER responses! Again the comment is only for proving how much the world is struggling right now on making profit. This isn't good time to even change the game to full Directx 11 and OS to Windows 8/10. As I stated, I want to buy something worthwhile. Don't break this Neverwinter/StarTrek community right now! Perhaps 2023?
The problem is that no one knows the population of how much will be affected with these changes given in these hard times, because many people don't have jobs. Some people can't work their jobs, because of a HAMSTER *pardon me* mandate that requires at least a covid vaccine. Meaning some people are allergic to the vaccine and are laid off! These are all facts! Lucky I'm not allergic, however considering other people, I think of them. Some people might as well be playing Neverwinter/StarTrek at a free-WIFI place? Just trying to get a temporary job is quite hard, because it's filled with people that lost their jobs. I don't know right now to even determine my expenses? I'm just being really careful on my expenses on purpose! I might even need to get government pay soon temporarily? Some of my help is coming from my parents, so it's rough for me right now! At least I'm fine for now.
There is so much to discuss on this! I'm sorry, people got expenses to worry about and many people are struggling on making profit right now to afford something new worthwhile! Many people are still getting paid by the government just to live! You're lucky if you can get Food Stamps! I'm just stating real life! This is how the world revolves to live!
What will it take to just not do this right now, until 2023?! That's plenty of time for people to readjust. I'll highly appreciate it. This OS and DirectX changes is simply not the best time!
For anyone that wants to argue with this? Shame on you! I do want Neverwinter/StarTrek to be improved, but just not right now! I strongly encourage anyone to think for the community during these hard times. Although many MMORPGS still run on old Directx and older OS versions. This is the first game that I've seen that changed the requirements, except Fortnite (I've researched), which only updated the requirements to Directx 11 not OS version.
I'm just telling Cryptic this isn't a good time! How much weight of convincing do I need? @nitocris83 Did Cryptic even think about what's going on in the world? I just summed it up. Some are fortunate and some are not.
I've stopped typing for awhile, but this is a lot to consider for the community!
I'm trying everything I can to stay in this game. Bad enough I might miss the Echoes of Prophecy opportunities? Well Part 2 mostly. I'm just struggling right now to afford something worthwhile. I'm thinking of getting a 2021 ASUS TUF Gaming F15 laptop with RTX 3060. Look I'm not going to buy something cheaper then buy something really worthwhile later.
You're fortunate and I'm not. Many others are unfortunate too. I'll see how November opens up for me. If not? I don't know.
Neverwinter is a game, not a life necessity, it's not food, shelter, health, electricity etc.. Cryptic have the numbers, they know how many will not be able to play. Not you, they know.
And like... Micky is right. Neverwinter runs on potato compared to new games.