I dont think is a problem of elitism. I think is a problem of numbers. It doesnt matter if the weapon is mod 8, 1 or 19, if that weapon is the best in dps BY FAR. The bonuses of the weapons should be more close in damage. You can add lots of things that doesnt affect to damage, and make them interesting.
And the best would be that some weapons are better for some classes or some playstiles, not 1 weapon to rule them all. At least in damage.
Thats true. I think thats one of the saddest things for me that this was not considered at all, even tho many people found so many different ways when we discussed gear and rewards on CDP and beyond. I remember all the ways to encourage different playstyles that were proposed by players, to not only introduce but also upgrade existing gear that would give the game way more depth, and would give everybody something to do. Anything, really.
Almost everyone complained about one size fits all, there is the Meta and nothing else mattered. People complained that anyone wanting to do Tomm had to have LH weapons before they would be taken, people complained that you had to have a 50K HP mount before you could do Zariel. Accessibility was a huge topic in the CDP, everyone wanted it, except those that already had it. BOOM! you don't have to have completed Tomm or Zariel to get EE weapons or RD weapons, also if you have those weapons you might get an invite to that content. Hmmmmm.
Now I understand that for some reason people feel that the noob in Tomm is out dpsing the guy with LH weapons it isn't fair, why? I mean for one thing you can't tell me that they didn't put in tons of work to get those weapons, because they did. You can't tell me that you can't put in the same work and get them for yourself, because u can. Lastly, you can't honestly tell me that doing PVE content is about who does the most damage, and that trumps actually completing it and getting the chest at the end?
If your a Pvper, and didn't read the set bonus, a set that when it was made, was made for PVP, then shame on you. But you do have a case in my opinion, 10% more damage per image is alot, it only counts against enemies that have shields or temp HP, not many, if any, have those in PVE. So this is painful for PVPers I get it. But any changes that happened to make pvp better or worse were not the focus of the changes, and you guys have always worked stuff out on your own, I mean everyone remembers when there were the stamina drains and AP drains that were so OP, you guys came together and agreed not to use them against each other. You could do the same here, no reason for anyone to feel that they need to run these weapons in PVP, right?
I am all for people reporting things that say one thing in the tooltip and are not doing that, that goes for positive and negative. There is absolutely no reason for people get upset about something that anyone can get with hard work and persistence. If you don't want to go back to EE or RD that's your choice, run what you want, but don't call nerf, you know you will be the first person to scream unfair when your class or weapon set gets nerfed.
I think this is the bigest problem in NW right now - mirage set. Just kill even that little much of fan for some people. Nerf, nerf, nerf... Don't know who is worse about nerfs. Devs or some "players". They nerfed literally everything. What's the point in some dungeons if we're scalled down ?!?! People have been playing without ench, with old items (not mirage) and doing more dmg... And still our problem is mirage set !?!? Wow.
In a topic created in Bug Reports, I didn't see a quote on why weapons had a bug other than the one it's given more damage than outdated and demoted content weapons like others were when new content arrived. The difference now is that you don't need to delete the old one, you have choices and you get what you think or conclude to be better for you. Oh the Lion's weapons have been nerfadas and only give 7.5% bonus damage, but ToMM can be completed by 5 ppl and this has to remain encore forever. The item level difference from ToMM to mZ is 30 to 35k and currently an end game has at 45k average. I'm doing a lot of ad selling River items, let the commoners like me ever happy.
And as someone quoted, the Celestial weapons weren't even BIS for all classes, and it was already becoming a problem for the Dev's in trying to adjust them so that the other classes besides DC and HR could use them.
First of, Bilethorn procs on mirage clones attacks, in second place you get action points too when those clones attacks. Then we have the ton of damage that comes from those weapons that literally deals almost the same damage as the player. in a combat log, you can see that they double the damage of your at-wills (they are not counted in a separated category, so you need to test with and without to se see the difference)
It is quite a grind to get the mirage set. I find it very odd that the complaints here (not bugs but complaints) are that the weapon is performing close to what the tool tip says it does. If it truly worked as described, the mirror images would also cast encounters and use the at-will your character uses. The big issue here isn't that the Mirage Set performs well, it's that damage base damage was removed from weapons. Before, we had a system where the desirability of a set was based on the damage it provided, with some consideration for the bonuses. Now, it's a bonus driven system, so it makes sense that older sets can out perform the newer ones. Especially since increasing IL increases the caps. This means for older, scaled content, old weapon sets will almost always be better than the newest set.
If people want the most current set to always be BIS, then we need to push to go back to the system with base damage coming from the weapon set, not IL. This is especially important, as damage is capped in all scaled content, so having a higher IL actually hurts you, versus helping, as it raises caps but not damage. This is really something the development team needed to think through more thoroughly before implementing the changes.
I'll also add, it's a very undesirable practice to reduce the performance of stuff that is either expensive or hard to get through grinding. All that does is devalue the process of obtaining these items and lead to unhappy players.
Back to the Mirage Set... Where are the tests for various classes in scaled and unscaled content to back the claims??? We all know performance varies significantly by class, zone, scaling, caps, weapon enchants, etc. Before making claims that something should have it's performance reduced, it would be nice to see some actual testing. Let me know how the Mirage Set works for a team in trials vs the MW set. Thanks.
The reality is, that toons are not customizable. IF they were customizable, grinding for things like the Elemental sets or Mirage would have a meaning. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it cannot be awesome. If grinding your HAMSTER off in someplace like River District means they'll nerf HAMSTER out of existence, there's no point to grid for it.
In the end I feel the answer would be to buff celestial weapons and stop nerfing other weapons. Make the hardest weapons to get the most desirable. We already got LH nerfed cuz people complained now mirage is being complained about. Really need to stop complaining about other sets and start complaining to get celestial buffed. Cuz what’s next if they nerf mirage? Prolly people complaining that burning weapons are too OP, and then another and then another. Let’s stop nerfing and start buffing higher stuff instead plain and simple.
It’s already been nerfed on Preview server, so just a matter of time till it goes live. Yeah one more thing not worth doing anymore. Good job 1%! Now you can go back to arguing about what YOU need to be BIS.
@noworries#8859 I'm hearing the mirage set is still more powerful than lh and still better for many classes. maybe it needs more nerf? I don't have a problem with weapons outclassing lh and celestial if they are newer weapons.. but it shouldn't even be competitive.
> @thefiresidecat said: > @noworries#8859 I'm hearing the mirage set is still more powerful than lh and still better for many classes. maybe it needs more nerf? I don't have a problem with weapons outclassing lh and celestial if they are newer weapons.. but it shouldn't even be competitive.
Just change them to wooden weapons and be done. Lol In fact just remove all ok’d weapons from the game since a few classes are getting a bonus point.
I give up. Eff the casual gamers and enjoy yourselves.
I wouldn't classify anyone who spends time to farm older weapons because they are overperforming as someone casual. those are people with a definitive goal in mind as they farm the weapons - to maybe try and have their damage output increased.
you don't punish casual players by making them farm old contents to aim to get old weapons - that punishment is aimed at end gamers / people who blindly follow other people with the hopes of not having the weapons nerfed before they get some decent mileage on it.
In the end I feel the answer would be to buff celestial weapons and stop nerfing other weapons. Make the hardest weapons to get the most desirable. We already got LH nerfed cuz people complained now mirage is being complained about. Really need to stop complaining about other sets and start complaining to get celestial buffed. Cuz what’s next if they nerf mirage? Prolly people complaining that burning weapons are too OP, and then another and then another. Let’s stop nerfing and start buffing higher stuff instead plain and simple.
I am fine with them making all weapons of modern make more or less in the same sphere and then something to build up to later in the game. my only objection is making something from mods ago the most powerful thing in the game.
> @noworries#8859 I'm hearing the mirage set is still more powerful than lh and still better for many classes. maybe it needs more nerf? I don't have a problem with weapons outclassing lh and celestial if they are newer weapons.. but it shouldn't even be competitive.
Just change them to wooden weapons and be done.
Lol
In fact just remove all ok’d weapons from the game since a few classes are getting a bonus point.
I give up.
Eff the casual gamers and enjoy yourselves.
Lol
Crash and burn baby
the mirage set takes a lot of time to farm and was over performing. afaik there are lots of decent options that are performing well but not ridiculously so that are not gated behind tomm or zariel. even mw is quite good now. it's not HAMSTER anyone over to not want stuff from mod 11 or whatever to be beyond bis.
I'm also calling bs on your "oh think of the poor casuals" angle. the only people I've seen sporting this are well known try hards.
I can't create a new topic, so I'll write about the river district weapons here. I have one question, we can buy Ground Jade for make a mirage weapons, Spell Amber for Lifeforged and Arcan Magical Writings for main component for all weapons, so why we can't buy Petrified Dust, Tained Soil for Fey and Aboleth weapons ? And I would forget Arcanic Focus for secon main component for all weapons, why we can't buy it on Auction House ? The developers will fix it or what it is ?
I can't create a new topic, so I'll write about the river district weapons here.
I have one question, we can buy Ground Jade for make a mirage weapons, Spell Amber for Lifeforged and Arcan Magical Writings for main component for all weapons, so why we can't buy Petrified Dust, Tained Soil for Fey and Aboleth weapons ? And I would forget Arcanic Focus for secon main component for all weapons, why we can't buy it on Auction House ? The developers will fix it or what it is ?
Are you really asking to 'fix' 4 years old content?
> @midnightita said: > Are you really asking to 'fix' 4 years old content?
yes because someone has to, if they corrected such minor errors the game would certainly be better, no one pays attention to it or even knows that it may affect the mechanics of his game
SO, just checked the latest changes to Mirage on my rogue. Laughable, at least for my build.
Summary of changes to Master Of Illusion (this is just base damage comparisons, not any Daily power use for burst damage during effect): Note: The 10% extra damage vs targets with temp HP or shields remains unchanged).
Original - 10% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 3.33% average overall base damage increase.
1st change (40% dmg reduction) - 6% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 2% average overall base damage increase.
Latest (50% dmg reduction from 1st change, or a 70% dmg reduction from Original) - 3% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 1% average overall base damage increase.
As for Bleed, only source I have on my assassin is Duelist's Flurry ... and it's just a chance for it to proc, not even guaranteed. Sure illusions using it increase chance for that to proc, but everything dies so fast from AOEs that I really just use them for mob distractions so I take fewer hits.
And with Duelist's Expertise feat, I can more than ramp up my damage against bosses if I even want to use my Daily for a burst.
Still going to continue to use Mirage until they finalize their foolishness ... it's just too much fun for an older set! Especially when just casually soloing Sharandar weeklies, dailies, and MHE!
And after doing a post patch run in Sharandar now, I honestly did not see any difference to the amount of damage the illusions were doing. They were still wiping out groups of 10-15 mobs easily. Not gonna mention the synergy of HOW I get them to do that, since they've already meddled with this set enough!
There are more than enough ways to ramp up outgoing damage than just an older outdated superior set bonus.
And there will always be some form of best for build set and bonus, not necessarily Mirage.
It's a game, go farm and build as you want and have fun!
In the end I feel the answer would be to buff celestial weapons and stop nerfing other weapons. Make the hardest weapons to get the most desirable. We already got LH nerfed cuz people complained now mirage is being complained about. Really need to stop complaining about other sets and start complaining to get celestial buffed. Cuz what’s next if they nerf mirage? Prolly people complaining that burning weapons are too OP, and then another and then another. Let’s stop nerfing and start buffing higher stuff instead plain and simple.
I am fine with them making all weapons of modern make more or less in the same sphere and then something to build up to later in the game. my only objection is making something from mods ago the most powerful thing in the game.
I would counter that with two points:
Since they've now made Illusionist's Gambit as hard as a lot of the endgame runs, it is as hard a slog to get as the newest weapons.
An obvious consequence of scaling in practically all content and removal of damage from weapons was that old weapons and gear became viable again. Cryptic removed the necessity to upgrade to be better. This was so obvious that it must be WAI.
Do I agree that they 'should' have done this? No, but when they make all the old content as hard as the new content (and nerf weapon enchantments, mount insignia bonuses, on-gear stats etc), players need to find any edge they can that exists within the new paradigm.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I can't create a new topic, so I'll write about the river district weapons here.
I have one question, we can buy Ground Jade for make a mirage weapons, Spell Amber for Lifeforged and Arcan Magical Writings for main component for all weapons, so why we can't buy Petrified Dust, Tained Soil for Fey and Aboleth weapons ? And I would forget Arcanic Focus for secon main component for all weapons, why we can't buy it on Auction House ? The developers will fix it or what it is ?
All RD weapons have at least one ingredient that you have to farm for yourself. Mirage has always been the hardest to farm as it was the best set.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
> @armadeonx said: > I would counter that with two points: > > Since they've now made Illusionist's Gambit as hard as a lot of the endgame runs, it is as hard a slog to get as the newest weapons. > > An obvious consequence of scaling in practically all content and removal of damage from weapons was that old weapons and gear became viable again. Cryptic removed the necessity to upgrade to be better. This was so obvious that it must be WAI. > > Do I agree that they 'should' have done this? No, but when they make all the old content as hard as the new content (and nerf weapon enchantments, mount insignia bonuses, on-gear stats etc), players need to find any edge they can that exists within the new paradigm.
This! All the content been scaled to be equally difficult. So now it’s weapon bonuses and gear bonus that are more important than stats.
The combat system only partially changed. We still have the same structure of boons and feats and powers. Only the formula for stats have changed. The gear isn’t new, mounts, comps all the same with a minor change because ARP was removed.
So folks are looking now for anything to make a viable set. It’s nice to see the old districts active.
I wish Primals were available again and that Tyrant eons would be fixed to remove the 10 min timer like watchers sets.
> @mushellka said: > If it's as hard as endgame runs, why don't you guys make a weapon from zariel > or tomm instead, but you bothering with this old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
Not as much fun. Playing is about having fun. ZC and TOMM are still BIS
And old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is still fun.
For some it’s not about the boards, it’s about the chest at the end and spending time with friends. AND Exploring new ways to do things and ways to have fun with the game. Mirage set is an important part of that.
If it's not about the boards. . . For fun with friends and exploring old junk, you might as well run around with weapons from the citadel, or legion's weapon
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Comments
Almost everyone complained about one size fits all, there is the Meta and nothing else mattered. People complained that anyone wanting to do Tomm had to have LH weapons before they would be taken, people complained that you had to have a 50K HP mount before you could do Zariel. Accessibility was a huge topic in the CDP, everyone wanted it, except those that already had it.
BOOM! you don't have to have completed Tomm or Zariel to get EE weapons or RD weapons, also if you have those weapons you might get an invite to that content. Hmmmmm.
Now I understand that for some reason people feel that the noob in Tomm is out dpsing the guy with LH weapons it isn't fair, why? I mean for one thing you can't tell me that they didn't put in tons of work to get those weapons, because they did. You can't tell me that you can't put in the same work and get them for yourself, because u can. Lastly, you can't honestly tell me that doing PVE content is about who does the most damage, and that trumps actually completing it and getting the chest at the end?
If your a Pvper, and didn't read the set bonus, a set that when it was made, was made for PVP, then shame on you. But you do have a case in my opinion, 10% more damage per image is alot, it only counts against enemies that have shields or temp HP, not many, if any, have those in PVE. So this is painful for PVPers I get it. But any changes that happened to make pvp better or worse were not the focus of the changes, and you guys have always worked stuff out on your own, I mean everyone remembers when there were the stamina drains and AP drains that were so OP, you guys came together and agreed not to use them against each other. You could do the same here, no reason for anyone to feel that they need to run these weapons in PVP, right?
I am all for people reporting things that say one thing in the tooltip and are not doing that, that goes for positive and negative. There is absolutely no reason for people get upset about something that anyone can get with hard work and persistence. If you don't want to go back to EE or RD that's your choice, run what you want, but don't call nerf, you know you will be the first person to scream unfair when your class or weapon set gets nerfed.
And as someone quoted, the Celestial weapons weren't even BIS for all classes, and it was already becoming a problem for the Dev's in trying to adjust them so that the other classes besides DC and HR could use them.
Then we have the ton of damage that comes from those weapons that literally deals almost the same damage as the player.
in a combat log, you can see that they double the damage of your at-wills (they are not counted in a separated category, so you need to test with and without to se see the difference)
@noworries#8859 @nitocris83 pls take an eye on that, really
> Is this a hard set to get solo? Just curious as I quite like the visual effect, having seen others with it.
No you dont need any skil for thus wepon just farm farm farm becose drop ratr is wery low
If people want the most current set to always be BIS, then we need to push to go back to the system with base damage coming from the weapon set, not IL. This is especially important, as damage is capped in all scaled content, so having a higher IL actually hurts you, versus helping, as it raises caps but not damage. This is really something the development team needed to think through more thoroughly before implementing the changes.
I'll also add, it's a very undesirable practice to reduce the performance of stuff that is either expensive or hard to get through grinding. All that does is devalue the process of obtaining these items and lead to unhappy players.
Back to the Mirage Set... Where are the tests for various classes in scaled and unscaled content to back the claims??? We all know performance varies significantly by class, zone, scaling, caps, weapon enchants, etc. Before making claims that something should have it's performance reduced, it would be nice to see some actual testing. Let me know how the Mirage Set works for a team in trials vs the MW set. Thanks.
Yeah one more thing not worth doing anymore.
Good job 1%!
Now you can go back to arguing about what YOU need to be BIS.
> @noworries#8859 I'm hearing the mirage set is still more powerful than lh and still better for many classes. maybe it needs more nerf? I don't have a problem with weapons outclassing lh and celestial if they are newer weapons.. but it shouldn't even be competitive.
Just change them to wooden weapons and be done.
Lol
In fact just remove all ok’d weapons from the game since a few classes are getting a bonus point.
I give up.
Eff the casual gamers and enjoy yourselves.
Lol
Crash and burn baby
you don't punish casual players by making them farm old contents to aim to get old weapons - that punishment is aimed at end gamers / people who blindly follow other people with the hopes of not having the weapons nerfed before they get some decent mileage on it.
I'm also calling bs on your "oh think of the poor casuals" angle. the only people I've seen sporting this are well known try hards.
I have one question, we can buy Ground Jade for make a mirage weapons, Spell Amber for Lifeforged and Arcan Magical Writings for main component for all weapons, so why we can't buy Petrified Dust, Tained Soil for Fey and Aboleth weapons ? And I would forget Arcanic Focus for secon main component for all weapons, why we can't buy it on Auction House ? The developers will fix it or what it is ?
> Are you really asking to 'fix' 4 years old content?
yes because someone has to, if they corrected such minor errors the game would certainly be better, no one pays attention to it or even knows that it may affect the mechanics of his game
Summary of changes to Master Of Illusion (this is just base damage comparisons, not any Daily power use for burst damage during effect):
Note: The 10% extra damage vs targets with temp HP or shields remains unchanged).
Original - 10% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 3.33% average overall base damage increase.
1st change (40% dmg reduction) - 6% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 2% average overall base damage increase.
Latest (50% dmg reduction from 1st change, or a 70% dmg reduction from Original) - 3% dmg for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, so a 1% average overall base damage increase.
As for Bleed, only source I have on my assassin is Duelist's Flurry ... and it's just a chance for it to proc, not even guaranteed. Sure illusions using it increase chance for that to proc, but everything dies so fast from AOEs that I really just use them for mob distractions so I take fewer hits.
And with Duelist's Expertise feat, I can more than ramp up my damage against bosses if I even want to use my Daily for a burst.
Still going to continue to use Mirage until they finalize their foolishness ... it's just too much fun for an older set! Especially when just casually soloing Sharandar weeklies, dailies, and MHE!
And after doing a post patch run in Sharandar now, I honestly did not see any difference to the amount of damage the illusions were doing. They were still wiping out groups of 10-15 mobs easily. Not gonna mention the synergy of HOW I get them to do that, since they've already meddled with this set enough!
There are more than enough ways to ramp up outgoing damage than just an older outdated superior set bonus.
And there will always be some form of best for build set and bonus, not necessarily Mirage.
It's a game, go farm and build as you want and have fun!
Elsill Killya - Assassin (Mirage for evah!)
Since they've now made Illusionist's Gambit as hard as a lot of the endgame runs, it is as hard a slog to get as the newest weapons.
An obvious consequence of scaling in practically all content and removal of damage from weapons was that old weapons and gear became viable again. Cryptic removed the necessity to upgrade to be better. This was so obvious that it must be WAI.
Do I agree that they 'should' have done this? No, but when they make all the old content as hard as the new content (and nerf weapon enchantments, mount insignia bonuses, on-gear stats etc), players need to find any edge they can that exists within the new paradigm.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
> I would counter that with two points:
>
> Since they've now made Illusionist's Gambit as hard as a lot of the endgame runs, it is as hard a slog to get as the newest weapons.
>
> An obvious consequence of scaling in practically all content and removal of damage from weapons was that old weapons and gear became viable again. Cryptic removed the necessity to upgrade to be better. This was so obvious that it must be WAI.
>
> Do I agree that they 'should' have done this? No, but when they make all the old content as hard as the new content (and nerf weapon enchantments, mount insignia bonuses, on-gear stats etc), players need to find any edge they can that exists within the new paradigm.
This! All the content been scaled to be equally difficult. So now it’s weapon bonuses and gear bonus that are more important than stats.
The combat system only partially changed.
We still have the same structure of boons and feats and powers.
Only the formula for stats have changed. The gear isn’t new, mounts, comps all the same with a minor change because
ARP was removed.
So folks are looking now for anything to make a viable set. It’s nice to see the old districts active.
I wish Primals were available again and that Tyrant eons would be fixed to remove the 10 min timer like watchers sets.
If it's as hard as endgame runs, why don't you guys make a weapon from zariel
or tomm instead, but you bothering with this old HAMSTER?
> If it's as hard as endgame runs, why don't you guys make a weapon from zariel
> or tomm instead, but you bothering with this old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
Not as much fun. Playing is about having fun.
ZC and TOMM are still BIS
And old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is still fun.
For some it’s not about the boards, it’s about the chest at the end and spending time with friends. AND
Exploring new ways to do things and ways to have fun with the game.
Mirage set is an important part of that.