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Official - Combat Changes - Bigger Discussion/ No Delete Thread

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  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,808 Arc User
    On the subject on tanks in the game:

    Over the years it seems to me that the role of tank has become less & less relevant to dungeon runs, probably mostly down to the majority of players running a DPS class, so changes to the game tend to favour the majority.

    Before the class changes a couple of years ago, tanks had repositioned themselves as DPS buffers so they'd be popular/useful to a group but buffs have since being neutered to have negligible impact.

    If this is how things are to progress (or just maintain the current position of almost-pointlessness) can I suggest that you just bite the bullet?

    In Guild Wars 1 they had no tank class - the Warrior (Barbarian type) was the tank who (with their stronger defences) would position themselves at the front of an attack and protect the squishy ranged classes. Clerics would heal them from the rear and everyone was happy.

    Neverwinter seems to be heading in this direction (probably without meaning to) so perhaps it's time to have that discussion?
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    My feeling is that tanks were balanced and needed when the game started, but then, every mod, with the introduction of better and more powerfull options in gear, items, companions, etc. The system was not rebalanced with tanks being less and less neccesary because of the power they give to everyone.

    If you have a balanced system, and you make players more powerfull across 5 mods and you dont touch the dungeons, is inevitable that tanks are less and less relevant.

    In mod 6 they change everything and tanks are needed again. After that, more powercreep in mods 7-15 and dungeons untouched. -> tanks not needed.

    So, they need to re-check this things in every dungeon / trial with every mod or introduction of more power.
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  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 766 Arc User
    @armadeonx @darthpotater They put caps on IL which means base damage and HP have limits now. That alone does a lot - if you add the fact that it would be now hard for a DPS class to cap one defensive stat, let alone two... the DPS classes are much more fragile in the group content then they used to be.

    Those changes are likely to ensure that tanks are about to be relevant even in a content many mods old - simply because past a certain threshold your growth will mean nothing in such content.
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    How much important iss ACC in dangeons, becose worlock with 55+-acc autdps me in citadel by 40 mil then my ACC abaut 70%+- ps. CA and Crit almost same for both of us:3
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,166 Arc User

    How much important iss ACC in dangeons, becose worlock with 55+-acc autdps me in citadel by 40 mil then my ACC abaut 70%+- ps. CA and Crit almost same for both of us:3

    Deflects only happen 50% of the time, meaning Accuracy by default is only used 50% of the time. Also remember that deflect severity also has the same curve that defense does now, so as you get to 90% there will be diminishing returns. The difference between these two warlocks is a lot less than the 15% difference in accuracy. I would say that the majority of the damage difference is more in which feats and powers were used, mount insignia bonuses, and combat powers, artifact timing, etc.
  • supmadbrosupmadbro Member Posts: 28 Arc User

    How much important iss ACC in dangeons, becose worlock with 55+-acc autdps me in citadel by 40 mil then my ACC abaut 70%+- ps. CA and Crit almost same for both of us:3

    They changed the deflect severity formula, so accuracy weakest offensive stat now :(
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User

    How much important iss ACC in dangeons, becose worlock with 55+-acc autdps me in citadel by 40 mil then my ACC abaut 70%+- ps. CA and Crit almost same for both of us:3

    I was watching that stream. It looked like the Warlock was taking advantage of No Pity, No Mercy which grants combat advantage vs a target whenever they crit. They didn't need to position themselves for CA due to this which meant that they were dealing a lot more CA damage than you. They were also abusing the heck out of bilethorn....
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    > @supmadbro said:
    > They changed the deflect severity formula, so accuracy weakest offensive stat now :(

    Sad... Even with no cop slotted for acc I have 70+- acc....
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • burtrburtr Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    So far, I still haven't gotten the answer that I want to to see the most.

    Yes, I am very sure that I will eventually be back to where I am on Live right now. Yes, some changes are good, but also bad. Nothing is perfect. It was never perfect with the previous changes. It won't be perfect with this intended change. It's like old Nintendo cheat codes. Someone will find a way eventually. Those are not the questions that I want to see.

    Again... I don't care if the whole game is changed to Donkey Kong. What I want answered is why do we even need changes in the first place? Some might say it's to make the game better. That's BS. That's been said with every new update since forever. Some might say that it's to give more choices. That's BS also. You always have choices... to be strong or weak. Even in Live, I know of people that chose to build "outside the box". Although it works, they are still practically useless in a real fight.

    Yes, the balance is broken right now in Live... just like it's always been broken.. always. Every other game is like this. You will have a stronger, easier path and you will have a weaker, harder path. Yes, you have choices. This new system will be the same way. The ones that can't afford to put real money into the game AND don't have time to put into farming... they will always lose out. Since MMO's first hit the scene, it's always been the "no-life" farmers vs the "family-person with a job and not enough time to play". In the old days, the ones who work all week cried about not being able to keep up with the jobless bottom dwellers living in mom's basement, who can stay online for 10 days straight with no sleep. With the new P2Win era, it's been flipped a little bit. The jobless guy living in mom's basement is now complaining about the working person who's able to pour thousands of real life money into the game. Free 2 Play, sure you can do that. Pay 2 Win, sure you can do that too.

    What I have been seeing here is a knee-jerk reaction to one side whining about the unfairness of their way.. boom, change. In every mod/change, you rarely hear whining about unfairness or the game being broken from the ones who are near endgame. It's not just in mmos, it's in real life too... in real life, we just give it heroic terms like "revolution". Revolution is always good for the bottom, but the top always end up suffering for it. The mob will end up killing every elderly, women, and children that belongs in their target of "revolution". Are they guilty? Mob doesn't care.. it's a good thing for the majority, right? It is Revolution (change)... to make it equal for everyone. No... some in the mob will just step in to take the place of the previous regime.. under a different title.

    It is the same here. In the old days, games with little change are seen as "stagnant". In the business world, if you're not looking for new ways to make money, then you are not a forward-thinker. The crazier the scheme.. well, that's because you are "thinking outside the box". Normal people call that being "crazy".

    Again.. my question is WHY? Why do we need these sweeping changes?

    After a few months, these new changes will be "broken" anyway. People are resourceful, they will find a way. You'll just have a different group of whiners about needing new changes to fix everything. Another business will step in and answer.. "sure, we can help you out.. for a price".

    Take away everything that has to do with farming, money, etc... what is broken with they system in Live right now?

    Those that argue stat caps and choices... if you want choices, go find another game to make choices in. Why do you want to fix MY game for yourself? Why do you think that what you want is what everyone else should want too? Why do you try to make it sound like it is for my own good.. like I should be thankful for it? I happen to like where I'm at, doing what I am doing.

    I'm not saying that one is better or worse than the other. All the arguments in preview about stats, gear, blah blah.. they will change by the time this hits Live anyway. All these arguments won't do much good by then. I've finally hit the point where I am happy with the game. It's not perfect. I don't farm TiC, ToMM, Zariel. I don't have TiC, ToMM, Zariel gear... but I can compete them and I can do better than most of them. The path I chose wasn't the popular path, but I it works for me. I'm sure I can find a path in the new system too, but... again... why should I have to? To me, right now the game isn't "broken", nor does it need these major changes just to appease one group or another.

    The majority of NW players don't read these forums. These changes are mostly for the few who spend their time here rather than actually playing or working to make their toons better.

    To get a real idea of what the masses want, spend time in the game... talk with the real players. Forum players are not the true representation of the real NW player. The majority of players are not D&D freaks nor are they skilled technical players. A lot of them don't even understand the current system. What you have here is geeks and jocks arguing over everything.. thinking that these changes are necessary in order to make the game better for grandma.

    Someone tell me why grandma needs these changes that she most likely won't understand anyway. Oh, and grandma is the person who's keeping the game "F2P" for the kid living in mom's basement. Grandma sinks tons of real life money into the game so she can enjoy herself.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    burtr said:

    So far, I still haven't gotten the answer that I want to to see the most.

    Yes, I am very sure that I will eventually be back to where I am on Live right now. Yes, some changes are good, but also bad. Nothing is perfect. It was never perfect with the previous changes. It won't be perfect with this intended change. It's like old Nintendo cheat codes. Someone will find a way eventually. Those are not the questions that I want to see.

    Again... I don't care if the whole game is changed to Donkey Kong. What I want answered is why do we even need changes in the first place? Some might say it's to make the game better. That's BS. That's been said with every new update since forever. Some might say that it's to give more choices. That's BS also. You always have choices... to be strong or weak. Even in Live, I know of people that chose to build "outside the box". Although it works, they are still practically useless in a real fight.

    Yes, the balance is broken right now in Live... just like it's always been broken.. always. Every other game is like this. You will have a stronger, easier path and you will have a weaker, harder path. Yes, you have choices. This new system will be the same way. The ones that can't afford to put real money into the game AND don't have time to put into farming... they will always lose out. Since MMO's first hit the scene, it's always been the "no-life" farmers vs the "family-person with a job and not enough time to play". In the old days, the ones who work all week cried about not being able to keep up with the jobless bottom dwellers living in mom's basement, who can stay online for 10 days straight with no sleep. With the new P2Win era, it's been flipped a little bit. The jobless guy living in mom's basement is now complaining about the working person who's able to pour thousands of real life money into the game. Free 2 Play, sure you can do that. Pay 2 Win, sure you can do that too.

    What I have been seeing here is a knee-jerk reaction to one side whining about the unfairness of their way.. boom, change. In every mod/change, you rarely hear whining about unfairness or the game being broken from the ones who are near endgame. It's not just in mmos, it's in real life too... in real life, we just give it heroic terms like "revolution". Revolution is always good for the bottom, but the top always end up suffering for it. The mob will end up killing every elderly, women, and children that belongs in their target of "revolution". Are they guilty? Mob doesn't care.. it's a good thing for the majority, right? It is Revolution (change)... to make it equal for everyone. No... some in the mob will just step in to take the place of the previous regime.. under a different title.

    It is the same here. In the old days, games with little change are seen as "stagnant". In the business world, if you're not looking for new ways to make money, then you are not a forward-thinker. The crazier the scheme.. well, that's because you are "thinking outside the box". Normal people call that being "crazy".

    Again.. my question is WHY? Why do we need these sweeping changes?

    After a few months, these new changes will be "broken" anyway. People are resourceful, they will find a way. You'll just have a different group of whiners about needing new changes to fix everything. Another business will step in and answer.. "sure, we can help you out.. for a price".

    Take away everything that has to do with farming, money, etc... what is broken with they system in Live right now?

    Those that argue stat caps and choices... if you want choices, go find another game to make choices in. Why do you want to fix MY game for yourself? Why do you think that what you want is what everyone else should want too? Why do you try to make it sound like it is for my own good.. like I should be thankful for it? I happen to like where I'm at, doing what I am doing.

    I'm not saying that one is better or worse than the other. All the arguments in preview about stats, gear, blah blah.. they will change by the time this hits Live anyway. All these arguments won't do much good by then. I've finally hit the point where I am happy with the game. It's not perfect. I don't farm TiC, ToMM, Zariel. I don't have TiC, ToMM, Zariel gear... but I can compete them and I can do better than most of them. The path I chose wasn't the popular path, but I it works for me. I'm sure I can find a path in the new system too, but... again... why should I have to? To me, right now the game isn't "broken", nor does it need these major changes just to appease one group or another.

    The majority of NW players don't read these forums. These changes are mostly for the few who spend their time here rather than actually playing or working to make their toons better.

    To get a real idea of what the masses want, spend time in the game... talk with the real players. Forum players are not the true representation of the real NW player. The majority of players are not D&D freaks nor are they skilled technical players. A lot of them don't even understand the current system. What you have here is geeks and jocks arguing over everything.. thinking that these changes are necessary in order to make the game better for grandma.

    Someone tell me why grandma needs these changes that she most likely won't understand anyway. Oh, and grandma is the person who's keeping the game "F2P" for the kid living in mom's basement. Grandma sinks tons of real life money into the game so she can enjoy herself.

    The answer to your question has been given several times by the developers. Both on live streams and in the developer blogs that were released.

    "GOALS

    Improved Scaling – Scaling should be seamless and smooth so that players don’t need to focus on it. These changes will allow that to happen both when scaling down and up. And players will no longer have to make gear changes when scaled to maximize their stats.

    Easier to Understand – The live setup of our ratings leaves a lot of players asking others what numbers they should be aiming for in different content. It wasn’t easy to know what your percentages were.

    Item Level More Accurate – We’ve had the measure of Item Level for a long time, but due to some different setups it wasn’t a solid measure of where a given character was and how they’d perform in various content.

    Easier to Gear Up – It can be a challenge for a lot of players to get the correct mix of stats with their different gearing options. Players should be able to equip gear to get to a given item level and be able to complete that content without having to micromanage all of their individual stats.

    Keep Options for Creative and Min/Max Builds – With all of the above, we also wanted to leave players plenty of avenues to customize their characters as well as fine tune their stats to optimize their builds. We needed to be careful with our changes to gearing up to not remove this element of the game from our most dedicated players.

    Those are some pretty big goals so let’s dive in to how we’re tackling improvements in those areas."-Jared Sears,
    Lead Systems Designer

    As to what was broken before on live right now? Scaling, the fact that you can cap everything and just worry about stacking power, making new gear either be useless or have more power in order for players to even be interested in grinding content.

    As far as longevity goes, there is actually a pretty good chance that this system will last. Stat caps are a ratio with TiL, so if you increase TiL, it's going to be harder to cap stats.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    ----- E U R E K A ! ! ! ! -----

    This is a proposal to adjust our stat system. It adds simplicity, balance for PvE and PvP, and longevity.

    The following items are changed:

    1) Stat Caps are increased to 100%

    2) Deflection Chance is a range from 33% to 66%. 33% is the base defection rate. 100% in Deflection stat doubles it.

    3) Critical Chance is a range from 33% to 66%. 33% is the base critical chance. 100% in Critical stat doubles it.

    4) Deflected Damage Factor is .5, for a standard default factor. Each stat percent in accuracy lowers it by .005 Each Deflect Severity stat percent increases the factor by .005 (the full range is expressed as 0% ---- 50% -----100% deflection). When an attackers accuracy equals their opponents deflect severity, a successful deflection will negate half of the damage.
    Deflected Damage Factor formula: .500 x ( ( .005 x Accuracy% ) - ( .005 x DeflectionSeverity% ) ) .

    5) Critical Damage Factor is 2.00, for a standard default factor.
    The Critical damage range can be expressed as: 100% ----- 200% -----400%
    Critical Damage Factor formula: 2 x ( ( CriticalSeverity% +100 ) / ( CriticalAvoid% + 100) )


    System Features: stat points put into Deflection, Deflect Severity, Critical, Critical Severity, Accuracy, and Critical Avoidance are approximately equal in value, and are competitive with the other stats. The actual frequency of deflections and criticals creates an engaging and immersive combat experience.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 472 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    How much important iss ACC in dangeons, becose worlock with 55+-acc autdps me in citadel by 40 mil then my ACC abaut 70%+- ps. CA and Crit almost same for both of us:3

    Deflects only happen 50% of the time, meaning Accuracy by default is only used 50% of the time. Also remember that deflect severity also has the same curve that defense does now, so as you get to 90% there will be diminishing returns. The difference between these two warlocks is a lot less than the 15% difference in accuracy. I would say that the majority of the damage difference is more in which feats and powers were used, mount insignia bonuses, and combat powers, artifact timing, etc.
    @arazith07 could you exemplify how is this new formula?
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    The Class balance should mostly be dictated by the content itself. Since the content itself changes drastically and since there is no comparative parabola to really reflect on the class progress, we can't say for sure how the classes have really changed over the time, which is especially true for the Tanks and Healers.

    If there really is a need for an overhaul, then it has to be done properly.

    I personally consider that both of these should be optional in any dungeon run, same as it is in any other DnD game. You should be able to really beat bosses easier with a Healer + Tank, but should not be necessary to a fault. You should be able to drink potions, use scrolls and so on, if you so choose. This should be an option and nobody has the right to get angry about this since this is the way of DnD since its inception. In Baldur's Gate 3 I do not use any healer nor do I use a tank, and I get more enjoyment like that with higher risk.

    So let's get this out of the window

    - Tank + Healer combo in a party should NOT be mandatory in order to play content.
    - In order to play a dungeon with minimum troubles, you WANT to get Tank + Healer combo.

    Having "Tank checks" or "Healer Checks" just makes it less desirable to really run the content. Sometimes I can't find a healer, sometimes I can't find a tank. And I have to wait a very long time in case I'd like to run some of the content from before.

    > Tanks should be the Masters of Armour class, Hit Points and have a variety of Aggro benefits that actually REALLY work for a change. They should either be using a two-handed Hammer or a two-handed sword, or a combo of Mace/Shield or similar. They should be able to really stun the enemies, place them on ground, stomp the area. They should be able to scare the enemies by their sheer presence.
    > Healers should be there to really mend the wounds and focus on party's health, whilst being able to use Mace and Shield for extra protection. They should be best in dealing against the Undead enemies, and come with a variations of Protective spells & Auras. Their main power should befall something like Arcane abjuration which helps them to stay clear of dangerous foes.
    > Barbarians should be able to take a beating, whilst also being able to dish out quite a bit of damage, especially with a two-handed sword or dual-hand axes, or an Axe + Various off-hand modifiers (like knuckles or similar). Perhaps to change them into Knight-like class, remove their Speedforce, and instead make them to be a combo between a Tank and Warrior, with Heavy Armor class and a two-handed spear, halberd or two-handed sword. They should get rechargeable special points for dealing extra damage which are solely time-oriented, rather than action related. They should have abilities that literally Charge an enemy, leaving it prone. If surrounded by more than 5 enemies, release a massive battle cry which increases the damage threefold, whilst also taking threefold more damage.
    > Wizards should have far more interesting spells. Magic missile should be an Encounter that can focus either one or several enemies at once. Acid Splash should be used by Wizards no matter what, that's the only special-element based attack that's missing from Wizard's repertoire. Fireball should be mandatory on both paragons, and so should the lightning attack.
    > Rogues should be Stealthy and deal full damage from enemy's back. Single-target damage, not AoE. They should be masters of deception and actually have content that can use their ability to Detect traps (perhaps something down the line of Perception rolls). This used to be a thing way before, but now it isn't really.
    > Warlocks should be able to use various weaponry as well, notably proficient with hellish spells. They should all deal 10% more damage to all Fiends, Devils & Demons alike, by Default.

    --------

    On top of that, Content that gives far more puzzles that people have to work together to solve, which are at least three times more complicated than the ones in Tomb of the Nine Gods.


    Of course, none of these will ever happen. But let's not pretend like there is a REAL initiative to fix broken stuff like some folk are trying to present here. There is literally 0% validity in these changes and that is a fact.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • magik30magik30 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    hello
    sorry for my English

    I noticed the SW dating cooldowns are up on the preview. I fully built the constitution and the charisma, the AP is correct for test, but the recharging of the rencontre powers is not going well.
    but still remains a problem with the recharging of the powers of meetings, despite the immolation of the soul (TAB) to find almost the same cooldown as the live I have to activate it twice in my rotation and that is not good, so I empty my shards twice during my rotation (empty shards = less damage). it ruins the wizard.
    has to tell Noworries to do something there.
    don't forget up cooldowns twice in the same year.

    I recommend not increasing the cooldown of encounter powers.
    to leave as on live.

    thank you.



  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 666 Arc User
    burtr said:

    So far, I still haven't gotten the answer that I want to to see the most.
    ...
    Again.. my question is WHY? Why do we need these sweeping changes?
    ....
    Why do you want to fix MY game for yourself? Why do you think that what you want is what everyone else should want too?

    This is what I have been wondering ever at least since M16, the mod no dev wants to talk about anymore cause we are only looking forward and bla bla bla: What is Cryptic thinking (or being told by their publisher) about their core demographic? Who do they want to reach? What is the goal?

    Neverwinter is not just a MMO, and it is not D&D. It reached, in my opinion, a different kind of playerbase than many other MMOs, which also set it apart in the past. They are trying very hard to stomp out what sets NW apart imo.

    I mean - I do not have an issue with the core changes, if they did not happen all the time and with the same arguments EVERY time. (And did not always blast away next to everything) Please, if anybody is already typing about systems that are meant to stay, go back and read old preview threads. 16, 15... if you want to try hard, go further. It will be fun, I guess.

    But, the problem is: Who are you making those changes for? What did we talk about on those CDPs about reaching NWs players outside of the forums? But, then again: Who would then test those big HAMSTER changes for free everytime?

    - bye bye -
  • crux#3033 crux Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I have been doing some testing, and here is what I consider my "big picture" view.
    snip
    So, bottom line - there is pretty much nothing I really like about those changes.

    QFE. The entire post.
    I'll only add that Cryptic is in Cali. and Perfect World Group is in China, so it stands to reason that this is no surprise.


  • gweddeoran#4924 gweddeoran Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    crux#3033 said:

    adinosii said:

    I have been doing some testing, and here is what I consider my "big picture" view.
    snip
    So, bottom line - there is pretty much nothing I really like about those changes.

    QFE. The entire post.
    I'll only add that Cryptic is in Cali. and Perfect World Group is in China, so it stands to reason that this is no surprise.


    Umm, what do you mean by that exactly? Considering the fact that the Internet is a global platform, please be mindful of what you say.

  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 963 Arc User
    So, I was skipping forum for some time, and hopped after some time there would be at least someone who do proper game testing.. Yet as always, that never happens( not suprised).

    Anyways for few days I was taking off from game and played others( previously played mmorpg).
    And
    While it's OK that some players do at least some form testing. Yet this also may lead to conclusions based on wrong data and all due using different techniques.

    In orde to test game properly it require two major thing.
    Unified testing technique and documentation.


    So as example lets say we want test thaumaturge wizards performance. So we need conditions and enviroment.


    Conditions:
    Condition One: No non class realated items/mechanics used. ( no companions, artefacts, insignias, mounts, enchantmets). Just some basic stats.
    Condition Two: limited - adding separated elements, as example insignia bonus effects. Then only artefact sets, then only mount effects( leg/mythic ranked).
    Condition Three: Full geared - arrtefacts, mounts and etc applied( fully geared).


    Enviroments:
    1) Training dummies, either normal ones or elite one in Port Nyanzaru.
    2) skirmish: The Shores of Tuern
    Note: T his skirmish is picked cuz it's have both, simple monsters who can be CC and ones who are resist to CC.
    Also boss at start have two minions, which mean from start its not one vs one situation. Also boss hitting hard enough which require player to dodge.


    Test Phases:

    1)Solo play
    Note: this is meant to test how x class perform alone.

    2) Multiple same build in group.
    Test out how multiple same builds interact and affect each other performance.

    3) Multiple same class, but different build( feat) or paragon path.
    Test out how multiple different builds interact and affect each other performance.

    4) Multiple different paragon paths/builds.
    Test out how x class/paragon path and it's build react with other classes/builds.

    Note: as you everyone can see the last phase is longest cuz it's consist in muliple each class possbile feat builds.
    Also need to note, that if we apply all possible builds in game ( enchantment/mount/artefacts and etc interactions) It's become one of hell testing.

    In order to do this testing, would require a team of players. And dedication for a week( at least).



    And now other key element is documentation.

    First of all what is game testing and what are their major two tasks.

    1) verify
    More less you test items/abilities/and mechanics and game do they work as inteneded and not goes beyond intention.

    2) Breaking game.
    You task is to break game, cause game lag( stress out), or cause item/mechanic/ability work as not intended.


    Now in both situation is required one key element which is information. You need to know how powers/items/mechanic should behave or at least how developers expect the should work.
    If you have no information how stuffs work, how can you be sure they behave properly?


    Few examples.

    Classes/paragon paths: Thaumaturge Wizard
    Note: this is just example, but also apply to all classes/paragon paths.

    What if there are multiple Thaumaturge Wizard in group and how do it's Smolder mechanic should behave.?

    Mechanic- Smolder
    Your fire based powers add Smolder to your target which deals damage over time. If the target is affected by Chill, it gains a Rimefire aspect, allowing its duration to be refreshed by Chill effects.


    So should smolder stack, yes or no?
    If yes then how many times?
    If now, then do it refresh or override with each wizard power usage( including multiple wizards in group).

    Other thing, what if someone in group also use feat: Directed Flames while others don't.
    Directed Flames - Smolder now deals 75% of its total damage instantly when applied but no longer deals damage over time.

    So how smolder should behave in susch situations?




    Examples: Weapon enchantments
    Note: This is just example, yet similar questions apply to all weapon/enchantments.

    Item: Dread Enchantment
    Dread


    Question, what if there are multiple same enchantnet users in group.

    Do debuff effect stack?
    yes? then how many times.
    no? does it refresh with each time hit or override?
    If override what if there are different rank enchantment, does it also override previously apply debuff by higher ranked one?

    Similar question goes about it's DoT effect, what if multiple rank enchantment used doe they override or refresh.


    Examples: Companions
    Note: this is juse example, yet same question applies to all of them.
    Rat-pup-insticnt


    What if there multiple players using same companions ability?
    This bleed effect should stack yes? no?
    If yes then how many times?
    No? do it have to override with each time applied or refresh?


    So question, where me as played should look for information?
    Since there is no decent information source, thats lead everyones speculation how it should work. I only mentioned Weapon enchantment, companion ability and class mecahnic.
    But there in game are mounts, their abilities. Some older artefact sets.

    I play neverwinter for more than 6 year, and in all this time, there have been no full game testing/evaluation.

    Perhaps its time for players and devs to arrange one big test marathon.?
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,450 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Preview is available to you, as to anyone else. If you feel that there is a lack of information and testing on the players side, fill the gaps. Do the testing.

    Many of us have real life obligations that will not go away just because Neverwinter decided to shuffle the entire system.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Point of order... preview is not available to everyone. Console does not have preview therefore we are stuck watching you lot do these things instead of us working it out on our end....
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,166 Arc User

    Point of order... preview is not available to everyone. Console does not have preview therefore we are stuck watching you lot do these things instead of us working it out on our end....

    There are plenty who are sharing results, either on the forums themselves, or in other media like Twitch, youtube, etc. I know Rainer has been hard at work in both making videos and with their character builder. Aragon has a lot of videos on Youtube about the changes, though I have not watched them myself. There are Twitch streamer who also visit preview, and I am sure they would be happy to answer questions and what not.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    This is "open beta". The initial plan was formalized before it got here. Now that it's here, it's not too late to make serious changes. Better to do that here and be behind an imaginary schedule, then to release trash to the masses. As far as testing goes... every game lacks testing funds and lacks enough volunteer testers to do justice. That's the way it is and will probably always be. To put a thousand players on a test server for a week 'paid', would be 40,000 hours times X dollars.

    Thank goodness for volunteers. Each volunteer specializes in something. We don't have enough meticulous full-time testers. We have lots of complainers that present lists of what they don't like or more poignantly, trash the next game evolution in it's entirety. I imagine that the full-timers and experienced content experts are communicating some plans and making their own notes that we don't see. General trash-talk is harmful to everyone. It demoralizes and it clutters the forums, making it harder for devs to find stuff like a bug found on one little post.

    Testers help Neverwinter and help make our game better for everyone. We need EVERYONE's help, even if they can only play a few casual hours. If all you have is criticism, let it out, but please specify concisely what you don't like, why its bad for the game, and how you would do it differently within a reasonable timespan. Playtesting helps foster a community of cooperative relationships between players and developers. Don't sit on the sidelines. Testing and game development is paramount to the future of our gaming experience and the health of this gaming community.
  • rosh#3730 rosh Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    So you are comparing Dps class that has 20% bonus damage to Tank Class are you serious in writing this

    That is really good joke for new year
  • vastano#2343 vastano Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    rubytrue said:


    @burtr You can port your character over to preview, and functionally, it will perform the same as it does on live (outside of very niche Xuna and Chicken builds). The orange and yellow floaty numbers will be (much) smaller, and people seem to be freaking out over that, but if you can get past that, the mobs are getting killed just as fast, if not faster as they are on live (at least in my experience). (The way that scaling works, you won't be able to solo dungeons like you currently can, and if you do, it will take a *lot* longer, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO.)

    Where you are going to wind up spending a lot of AD and/or real world money is if you fall into the trap thinking that there is "one best way" to build a character. Because there isn't. And that is what people aren't able to understand. In the old system, you would simply cap your stats and then add more power--and that was the meta in a nutshell. You can no longer cap all your stats, and for all intents and purposes, power as we knew it, no longer exists in the game; "Power" as it is now called is capped, and functionally, it acts the same way as Armor Penetration does now.

    It is a vastly simplified combat system that is pretty straightforward, and it opens up a lot of possibilities for equally effective and efficient character builds that currently isn't possible in the present combat system.

    i did port my very near endgame (191k power 34k il all offensive stats capped for zariel defense capped 425k hp) ranger warden to preview i used 90k tradebars changed each and every enchant (all r15) all runestones all companion equipment each and every legendary insignia took all my companions to mythic
    went into the cloak tower got destroyed by first 3 mobs
    went back to drawing board spent another 40k tradebars (luckily they free on preview) capped accur crit strike power crit sev got my char to what on paper looked promising (power @ 90% acc @ 85% comb adv @ 75% crit strike @ 78% crit sev @ 88,5%) jumped into castle never (which i solo quite often on live) got killed by first 3 mobs
    tested on avernus you say mobs die just as fast i can tell you catagoricly that is wrong on live i kill and entire spawn in harumans in 3 hits on preview it takes quite a while and probably a health pot

  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User

    rubytrue said:


    @burtr You can port your character over to preview, and functionally, it will perform the same as it does on live (outside of very niche Xuna and Chicken builds). The orange and yellow floaty numbers will be (much) smaller, and people seem to be freaking out over that, but if you can get past that, the mobs are getting killed just as fast, if not faster as they are on live (at least in my experience). (The way that scaling works, you won't be able to solo dungeons like you currently can, and if you do, it will take a *lot* longer, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO.)

    Where you are going to wind up spending a lot of AD and/or real world money is if you fall into the trap thinking that there is "one best way" to build a character. Because there isn't. And that is what people aren't able to understand. In the old system, you would simply cap your stats and then add more power--and that was the meta in a nutshell. You can no longer cap all your stats, and for all intents and purposes, power as we knew it, no longer exists in the game; "Power" as it is now called is capped, and functionally, it acts the same way as Armor Penetration does now.

    It is a vastly simplified combat system that is pretty straightforward, and it opens up a lot of possibilities for equally effective and efficient character builds that currently isn't possible in the present combat system.

    i did port my very near endgame (191k power 34k il all offensive stats capped for zariel defense capped 425k hp) ranger warden to preview i used 90k tradebars changed each and every enchant (all r15) all runestones all companion equipment each and every legendary insignia took all my companions to mythic
    went into the cloak tower got destroyed by first 3 mobs
    went back to drawing board spent another 40k tradebars (luckily they free on preview) capped accur crit strike power crit sev got my char to what on paper looked promising (power @ 90% acc @ 85% comb adv @ 75% crit strike @ 78% crit sev @ 88,5%) jumped into castle never (which i solo quite often on live) got killed by first 3 mobs
    tested on avernus you say mobs die just as fast i can tell you catagoricly that is wrong on live i kill and entire spawn in harumans in 3 hits on preview it takes quite a while and probably a health pot

    My guess is that you have next to no Awareness. If you neglect Awareness in the new system, you will get absolutely shredded. It is probably the #1 stat in terms of survivability in the new system.

    I would agree with you on dungeons, however, outside of a few builds, solo survivability in dungeons is pretty much out the window. The scaling changes have made it so you actually need a party there.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    The Devs keep saying that the new system is easier to understand but it seems more obtuse than ever now.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
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