Guys, lets focus on the topic of the thread "accessibility". Surely, there are many other topics linked with it but by discussing it in here, you increase the burden on Chris.
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
4
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Guys, lets focus on the topic of the thread "accessibility". Surely, there are many other topics linked with it but by discussing it in here, you increase the burden on Chris.
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
To be honest an endless dungeon doesn't really fit well with a D&D game. It's D&D, not POE or Diablo. And many people prefer to play solo a lot, so I guess they should keep something that can be done solo instead of only dungeons (and dungeons watered down to solo level won't really fit that space). In the guilds I have seen, most players are doing solo or community events (dragonflight, etc.) to keep it easy when they want it.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Feedback Overview: A small guide or event order to make the story consistent.
Feedback Goal: I would like to propose a small tab or list of the order of events in certain story chains. Upon reaching max level, all kinds of campaigns and content becomes available and can be taken out of order. Sometimes this can be jarring. I am introduced to Makos in Maze Engine, i take a break from maze engine when it gets a little grindy and check out chult only for me to learn Makos died, was mourned in River district only to bee back again in chult. I kinda would have liked to know the stoory order so i could have done them for a proper Narritivee experience.
Feedback Functionality: Impact would be minimal as it could be nothing more than a page with Narrative strings laid out like: Maze Engine-> River District-> Jungles of chult. Since many adventures are rather self contained they can be left off or labled as such, but if there is a running plot thread or one campaign is meant to occurred narritivally after another, it would be marked as such and the order given but in an optional tab in your journal.
Risks & Concerns: Some May compelled too do it in prescribed order, but a text box or voice over can makee it clear that following this order is entirely optional.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Guys, lets focus on the topic of the thread "accessibility". Surely, there are many other topics linked with it but by discussing it in here, you increase the burden on Chris.
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
To be honest an endless dungeon doesn't really fit well with a D&D game. It's D&D, not POE or Diablo. And many people prefer to play solo a lot, so I guess they should keep something that can be done solo instead of only dungeons (and dungeons watered down to solo level won't really fit that space). In the guilds I have seen, most players are doing solo or community events (dragonflight, etc.) to keep it easy when they want it.
An MMO to be played SOLO??? While we all have different opinions and interests, the fact of the matter still remains that Cryptic is a business first and foremost. They are catering for their customers rather than individuals. If they felt that a great proportion of the game's revenue came from D&D solo lovers and spend all their time on creating story based campaigns, than so be it. I wouldn't think twice staying in this game if so, because if i wanted to play a story based games, i look towards real RPG games like Dragon age, Skyrim, Witcher and so on. I can't for once see, how an MMO can survive making story based dungeons as its main attraction. The whole MMO world is taken over by PVP and PVE is the closest you get to PVP.
In reality when you think about it, DnD, was never an Open World Game, when you played with your friends, some other group of players didn't come along and enter your campaign, kill your mobs, steal your loot, and save the town, you had your own private instance that you played in, and other players had theirs. So PVE definitely is more defining of D&D than PVP.
But NW is not only a D&D based game, it is an MMO. There has to be balance between the both. I can understand your argument, however there are plenty of D&Dish single player RPG games already offering that. MMO's are not pure RPG's where you are alone in the world and role play. This is a massive multiplayer online game and that to free to play. How can the game ever hope to stay F2P as an MMO but only having campaigns that are basically another version of RPG but far inferior?
I also beg to differ, why do people make it out that an endless dungeon and D&D story based campaigns are mutually exclusive? Are we even getting anywhere with these discussions because i am having to read people telling NW to actually break its roots and completely revert to a story based solo type of MMMOOO??
2
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Guys, lets focus on the topic of the thread "accessibility". Surely, there are many other topics linked with it but by discussing it in here, you increase the burden on Chris.
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
To be honest an endless dungeon doesn't really fit well with a D&D game. It's D&D, not POE or Diablo. And many people prefer to play solo a lot, so I guess they should keep something that can be done solo instead of only dungeons (and dungeons watered down to solo level won't really fit that space). In the guilds I have seen, most players are doing solo or community events (dragonflight, etc.) to keep it easy when they want it.
An MMO to be played SOLO??? While we all have different opinions and interests, the fact of the matter still remains that Cryptic is a business first and foremost. They are catering for their customers rather than individuals. If they felt that a great proportion of the game's revenue came from D&D solo lovers and spend all their time on creating story based campaigns, than so be it. I wouldn't think twice staying in this game if so, because if i wanted to play a story based games, i look towards real RPG games like Dragon age, Skyrim, Witcher and so on. I can't for once see, how an MMO can survive making story based dungeons as its main attraction. The whole MMO world is taken over by PVP and PVE is the closest you get to PVP.
In reality when you think about it, DnD, was never an Open World Game, when you played with your friends, some other group of players didn't come along and enter your campaign, kill your mobs, steal your loot, and save the town, you had your own private instance that you played in, and other players had theirs. So PVE definitely is more defining of D&D than PVP.
But NW is not only a D&D based game, it is an MMO. There has to be balance between the both. I can understand your argument, however there are plenty of D&Dish single player RPG games already offering that. MMO's are not pure RPG's where you are alone in the world and role play. This is a massive multiplayer online game and that to free to play. How can the game ever hope to stay F2P as an MMO but only having campaigns that are basically another version of RPG but far inferior?
I also beg to differ, why do people make it out that an endless dungeon and D&D story based campaigns are mutually exclusive? Are we even getting anywhere with these discussions because i am having to read people telling NW to actually break its roots and completely revert to a story based solo type of MMMOOO??
I guess you don't understand. I have been a guild leader and I can tell you that there's a large number of players that prefer grinding campaigns solo than doing dungeons all time. They also do some dungeons but that is not their main thing. I guess you are not one of them but they are definitely a number.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I have to add to the suggestion for two tiered versions of more complex "mechanics based" content.
As a simple example, I remember when Ravenloft first dropped, and when enough people were finally eligible, trying to run PUGs in CR. That first major battle with the Sisters was about a 1 in 20 chance of getting through, and even then that would involve three or four drop outs and reinforcements. That was a relatively simple game mechanic, once you understood it. But learning it was a steep curve if you didn't have patient friends prepared to guide you through.
If two tiered content is too resource/time restrictive, as a more left field idea, I don't know whether there might be a way to have a "Hints" version of content? Basically, you opt to run the content at a lower reward rank, but get pop ups a la the normal tutorials telling you what the specific encounter requires. Either in terms of general tips, or flat out explanations.
As far as the new player experience goes, I recently ran a new Gith character through the revised starting campaign process. While the new artwork on Tower District, and so on are nice touches, the levelling process is still pretty confusing. With "Legacy Campaigns" now extending all the way up to Ravenloft it feels like a long way for new players to catch up to new content at the Undermountain stage, particularly when they will be Level 80 long before getting there if they are going to try and proceed in any sort of linear fashion.
But, of course, any player is going to head straight for the newest content they are eligible for, so will complete Undermountain probably before they complete Elemental Evil. Meaning they will be doing most of those Legacy campaigns as a L80 and finding them, frankly, lacking in challenge and a somewhat tiresome grind in order to get Boons, because none of the gear from those campaigns is fit for purpose at L80.
I think that one thing that might help alleviate this somewhat would be updating the rewards for campaign staging. Such as the enchants from Tyranny. Rank 3? Sorry, that's barely worth converting to RP for anyone, and any player with an ounce of sense will join a decent guild whose members will help fit them out with R7s across the board as a MINIMUM. If you don't want to give out R7s and 8s for that easy content swap it out for a decent RP reward, as that will be a big help for people chasing base parity at L80. They'll be looking at refining 4 (probably basic) artifacts, 4 artifact gear pieces, and probably 3 Bondings all at the same time in order to be relevant in queue content. Helping them get that helps us all.
It's lots of little things that if updated would make the levelling experience a bit less of a grind.
2
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
As someone who normally solo grinds stuff, I can say that I am normally solo because of the ease of the content. Even with Master Expeditions that have the option, I find that I would rather do a 1-rune ME solo than to do it in a group. Part of this is because it takes the same amount of time as part of a group, another if because it helps me learn and play my class better (if it's not my main), and also so I don't have to deal with people outside of my guild and alliance. Open world stuff is just plain easy, even with the upcoming mod, aside from HEs, quests can be done solo at your own pace. This is perfectly fine though. More what I am getting at, is that part of why there are what seems to be a lot of solo players, is that campaign grinding is just something we can do without having to coordinate (or deal) with other people but still progress in the game.
I like the idea of MEs, instanced hunts, and what not (though with less RNG layers) for the more solo minded players, but it should not take away from the group content, as this is an MMO, and group content should be the core source of replay-ability. The campaign is the story and lore, with maybe a bit of a mini, solo dungeon at the end for sense of closure and completion. The Dungeons/events are the group content with the high end rewards to entice players to want to repeatedly play and come back.
I think the new player has a very lonely experience. We cant access guilds because we cant message or chat. When i play an mmorpg type game i do so with the idea that i am joining a world full of other players to interact with. Having to play solo for 30 levels before i can even ask to join a guild is a major turnoff. I would hope you can relax the chat restrictions in the future, so that new players like me can interact with others and join a guild. Thats part of the mmo experience, if i wanted to play solo i would go back to my single player games. I just started last night, im on the fence if im going to stay or not. Not being able to interact with players at all is a big downer.
Guys, lets focus on the topic of the thread "accessibility". Surely, there are many other topics linked with it but by discussing it in here, you increase the burden on Chris.
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
To be honest an endless dungeon doesn't really fit well with a D&D game. It's D&D, not POE or Diablo. And many people prefer to play solo a lot, so I guess they should keep something that can be done solo instead of only dungeons (and dungeons watered down to solo level won't really fit that space). In the guilds I have seen, most players are doing solo or community events (dragonflight, etc.) to keep it easy when they want it.
An MMO to be played SOLO??? While we all have different opinions and interests, the fact of the matter still remains that Cryptic is a business first and foremost. They are catering for their customers rather than individuals. If they felt that a great proportion of the game's revenue came from D&D solo lovers and spend all their time on creating story based campaigns, than so be it. I wouldn't think twice staying in this game if so, because if i wanted to play a story based games, i look towards real RPG games like Dragon age, Skyrim, Witcher and so on. I can't for once see, how an MMO can survive making story based dungeons as its main attraction. The whole MMO world is taken over by PVP and PVE is the closest you get to PVP.
In reality when you think about it, DnD, was never an Open World Game, when you played with your friends, some other group of players didn't come along and enter your campaign, kill your mobs, steal your loot, and save the town, you had your own private instance that you played in, and other players had theirs. So PVE definitely is more defining of D&D than PVP.
But NW is not only a D&D based game, it is an MMO. There has to be balance between the both. I can understand your argument, however there are plenty of D&Dish single player RPG games already offering that. MMO's are not pure RPG's where you are alone in the world and role play. This is a massive multiplayer online game and that to free to play. How can the game ever hope to stay F2P as an MMO but only having campaigns that are basically another version of RPG but far inferior?
I also beg to differ, why do people make it out that an endless dungeon and D&D story based campaigns are mutually exclusive? Are we even getting anywhere with these discussions because i am having to read people telling NW to actually break its roots and completely revert to a story based solo type of MMMOOO??
I guess you don't understand. I have been a guild leader and I can tell you that there's a large number of players that prefer grinding campaigns solo than doing dungeons all time. They also do some dungeons but that is not their main thing. I guess you are not one of them but they are definitely a number.
Then this game is using the wrong genre to attract people. MMO's have solo content but most of that is during leveling up. If i wanted to play solo, i rather play solo RPG's that are made for that very reason. What you are trying to tell me is that, people just want to suck out the free RPG out of the MMO. It's not how a business can survive and those doing TOMM, ask them how much they have invested into the game. If you can invest in PS4 or Xbox games, investing in an MMO is no different.
Then this game is using the wrong genre to attract people. MMO's have solo content but most of that is during leveling up. If i wanted to play solo, i rather play solo RPG's that are made for that very reason. What you are trying to tell me is that, people just want to suck out the free RPG out of the MMO. It's not how a business can survive and those doing TOMM, ask them how much they have invested into the game. If you can invest in PS4 or Xbox games, investing in an MMO is no different.
MMOs offer group play, but not exclusively. As soon as there is a choice, people will have preferences. They could focus more on solo, they could focus more on pvp, they could focus more on (group related content/) pve, but the sum of what they focus on since at least huntgate is not content, but reducing choice, fun, the usage of three braincells when playing, whatever, your pick.
There could be more group content, there could be better campaigns, everybody would be happy. (Or nah, then we would still be discussing whether or not nerfs are allowed, especially for GWF CW.)
People actually play games for different reasons, and I can have a multiplayer experience without dungeons. Of course, that defies the D&D "setting", where we are constantly running Dungeons (twice a year) and fighting Dragons.
I forgot: There is a huge difference between solo RPG (was it you that mentioned Witcher 3 and Skyrim?) and MMOs, and it IS the community. Being a member of a community, contributing to a bigger goal, helping out, chatting is not bound to group-content, but bound to a game with an active community. That is why there are people in NW that have a solo-preference. I love Witcher 3. But I DO know its just NPCs. That doesn't mean that people with that preference can't run group content or are generally unwilling to. I am, for one, unwilling to run group content with nasty people, so I don't. That also means that I will leave what I consider a bad environment and maybe solo if I'm already pissed of, and it means that I would rather run a few DR lairs if my usual group is not online and I'm not up for pugs. Is that the evil solo kind of way? I don't know.
There should be a focus on the dungeons, but in my opinion just bringing out new dungeons is not a good idea, if they continue their path of purpose: It has a purpose, then its dead. The rewards are HAMSTER. Please let the game punish us for spending our time on dungeons when I could farm 10 ses in that timeframe. I would look forward to high quality dungeons. But I also liked to solo dungeons. I liked to duo dungeons. I liked to invite ppl for last boss. I liked getting completely destroyed trying out new builds solo in FBI. But I can also see that my experience is not everybody else's, and that 50 new dungeons couldn't change the problems in this game, either.
Then this game is using the wrong genre to attract people. MMO's have solo content but most of that is during leveling up. If i wanted to play solo, i rather play solo RPG's that are made for that very reason. What you are trying to tell me is that, people just want to suck out the free RPG out of the MMO. It's not how a business can survive and those doing TOMM, ask them how much they have invested into the game. If you can invest in PS4 or Xbox games, investing in an MMO is no different.
MMOs offer group play, but not exclusively. As soon as there is a choice, people will have preferences. They could focus more on solo, they could focus more on pvp, they could focus more on (group related content/) pve, but the sum of what they focus on since at least huntgate is not content, but reducing choice, fun, the usage of three braincells when playing, whatever, your pick.
There could be more group content, there could be better campaigns, everybody would be happy. (Or nah, then we would still be discussing whether or not nerfs are allowed, especially for GWF CW.)
People actually play games for different reasons, and I can have a multiplayer experience without dungeons. Of course, that defies the D&D "setting", where we are constantly running Dungeons (twice a year) and fighting Dragons.
If you actually read my previous comments, to which this comment stemmed from, you wouldn't have taken my quoted post out of context. I can tell that you haven't read the previous comments because i have clearly stated that story based dungeons and endless dungeons for PVE are not mutually exclusive. Actually, most of my comments in this CDP have been to give ideas on how NW can achieve content that is targeted at multiple audiences. The replies however i am getting is that they should just focus on solo content. So i ask, who is against giving choice to players? My main arguments stands, that is that even before being an D&D game, people see NW as an MMO. It fits neatly in that genre and ffs it even describes itself as ACTION based MMORPG. You want such a game to solely dedicate to story based campaigns with no multiplayer pve combat aka dungeons?
Then this game is using the wrong genre to attract people. MMO's have solo content but most of that is during leveling up. If i wanted to play solo, i rather play solo RPG's that are made for that very reason. What you are trying to tell me is that, people just want to suck out the free RPG out of the MMO. It's not how a business can survive and those doing TOMM, ask them how much they have invested into the game. If you can invest in PS4 or Xbox games, investing in an MMO is no different.
MMOs offer group play, but not exclusively. As soon as there is a choice, people will have preferences. They could focus more on solo, they could focus more on pvp, they could focus more on (group related content/) pve, but the sum of what they focus on since at least huntgate is not content, but reducing choice, fun, the usage of three braincells when playing, whatever, your pick.
There could be more group content, there could be better campaigns, everybody would be happy. (Or nah, then we would still be discussing whether or not nerfs are allowed, especially for GWF CW.)
People actually play games for different reasons, and I can have a multiplayer experience without dungeons. Of course, that defies the D&D "setting", where we are constantly running Dungeons (twice a year) and fighting Dragons.
If you actually read my previous comments, to which this comment stemmed from, you wouldn't have taken my quoted post out of context. I can tell that you haven't read the previous comments because i have clearly stated that story based dungeons and endless dungeons for PVE are not mutually exclusive. Actually, most of my comments in this CDP have been to give ideas on how NW can achieve content that is targeted at multiple audiences. The replies however i am getting is that they should just focus on solo content. So i ask, who is against giving choice to players? My main arguments stands, that is that even before being an D&D game, people see NW as an MMO. It fits neatly in that genre and ffs it even describes itself as ACTION based MMORPG. You want such a game to solely dedicate to story based campaigns with no multiplayer pve combat aka dungeons?
I just didn't want to say that endless dungeons are a waste of resources imo. And yeah, what I said was: I know its your main argument, but why does that have to be ultimately correct, just because its what you think? Your way of arguing is always the same, and it could always be cut short like this: This is what I do, thats why its correct. So no, I try not to read your comments too much. You cannot validate your point that the single-oriented players in this game wouldn't create enough revenue to let it stay ftp, because there is no data to it, its your opinion. Why do you think in a D&D related MMO we got so many campaigns and solo-able content if it is bad for the ftp aspect?
So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
There's another class of players: those who may or may not be interested in lore, those who have been around a while and so aren't newbies, but aren't terribly interested in being the first to finish some super-hard dungeon either. That is, people who just want to goof off in a game. Right now, there is nothing for this group of players to do.
That is what pissed me off so much about Mod 17. It catered only to the super-hard-core crowd. "Oh but you have 16 other mods worth of content". Yeah well you're bored with that stuff, I'm bored with that stuff too.
If there was a normal version of TOMM then that would go a long way to satisfying this class of players. Maybe then I'd actually be able to experience the new content.
Then this game is using the wrong genre to attract people. MMO's have solo content but most of that is during leveling up. If i wanted to play solo, i rather play solo RPG's that are made for that very reason. What you are trying to tell me is that, people just want to suck out the free RPG out of the MMO. It's not how a business can survive and those doing TOMM, ask them how much they have invested into the game. If you can invest in PS4 or Xbox games, investing in an MMO is no different.
MMOs offer group play, but not exclusively. As soon as there is a choice, people will have preferences. They could focus more on solo, they could focus more on pvp, they could focus more on (group related content/) pve, but the sum of what they focus on since at least huntgate is not content, but reducing choice, fun, the usage of three braincells when playing, whatever, your pick.
There could be more group content, there could be better campaigns, everybody would be happy. (Or nah, then we would still be discussing whether or not nerfs are allowed, especially for GWF CW.)
People actually play games for different reasons, and I can have a multiplayer experience without dungeons. Of course, that defies the D&D "setting", where we are constantly running Dungeons (twice a year) and fighting Dragons.
If you actually read my previous comments, to which this comment stemmed from, you wouldn't have taken my quoted post out of context. I can tell that you haven't read the previous comments because i have clearly stated that story based dungeons and endless dungeons for PVE are not mutually exclusive. Actually, most of my comments in this CDP have been to give ideas on how NW can achieve content that is targeted at multiple audiences. The replies however i am getting is that they should just focus on solo content. So i ask, who is against giving choice to players? My main arguments stands, that is that even before being an D&D game, people see NW as an MMO. It fits neatly in that genre and ffs it even describes itself as ACTION based MMORPG. You want such a game to solely dedicate to story based campaigns with no multiplayer pve combat aka dungeons?
I just didn't want to say that endless dungeons are a waste of resources imo. And yeah, what I said was: I know its your main argument, but why does that have to be ultimately correct, just because its what you think? Your way of arguing is always the same, and it could always be cut short like this: This is what I do, thats why its correct. So no, I try not to read your comments too much. You cannot validate your point that the single-oriented players in this game wouldn't create enough revenue to let it stay ftp, because there is no data to it, its your opinion. Why do you think in a D&D related MMO we got so many campaigns and solo-able content if it is bad for the ftp aspect?
Your bickering means nothing. Simply quote me where i stated that my opinion is the only option? If you actually followed this thread, you'll now that endless dungeon is TheFabricant's idea and i am actually only proposing ideas where endless dungeons and story mode campaigns can be merged. I can argue that my opinion is correct but that also doesn't mean that other opinions are wrong. This isn't a math question where there is only one single correct answer. What i shouldn't be doing is to invalidate others but clearly that is not the case, if you actually tried to read them before replying mindlessly again. The whole game is based on upgrading gearing, you think that was to complete campaigns only? Please, come back with your weak arguments 100 years after you have thoroughly thought about them because you're clearly not even replying to my posts, just plain bickering.
The game has had a mixture of campaigns and dungeons so it has tried to cater for both PVE and lore lovers. Now that NW is on its last legs, players are suggesting to Hamster dungeons and just focus on campaign, why shouldn't i argue with them when i am the game's customer just as they are? Why do my replies reflect inclusion of diversity of all types of audiences but not so vice versa?
So i repeat, can we stop going off topic? The topic is about accessibility, not about catering to THAT one audience who represents NW the best. I'd also welcome the revenue statistics from the dev's, please tell me why they decided to focus on end gamers aka TOMM in mod 17 when they lost nearly half of their playerbase in mod 16? What ideas do you have jules?
I think the new player has a very lonely experience. We cant access guilds because we cant message or chat. When i play an mmorpg type game i do so with the idea that i am joining a world full of other players to interact with. Having to play solo for 30 levels before i can even ask to join a guild is a major turnoff. I would hope you can relax the chat restrictions in the future, so that new players like me can interact with others and join a guild. Thats part of the mmo experience, if i wanted to play solo i would go back to my single player games. I just started last night, im on the fence if im going to stay or not. Not being able to interact with players at all is a big downer.
@roxie#4965 Hi, I hope that someone has already reached out to you given that several of the people posting in this thread are guild leaders and officers in many of the larger guilds in Neverwinter, but if not I would like to offer a few suggestions to help you work around the problems you mentioned. Like you I had the same problems when I first started playing, but I was lucky to find a guild rather quickly using the following resources.
There are several places you can find information about guilds outside of the game. One of the best places is here on these forums. You will need to look in the section for the platform you are playing on and then find the subforum. The Subforum for PC is...
GUILD & ALLIANCE RECRUITMENT (PC) I would read through the threads and see which guild fits with your playstyle and level of commitment.
Another place to find a guild is on the Neverwinter reddit. There are only a few for each platform listed there but if you make a post listing what platform you are on and what kind of guild you are looking for I'm sure you will get a response.
You can also look on the Protector's Enclave discord channel. Once you are in a Guild you can use your Guild and Alliance chat to communicate. Many Guilds even have Discord or TeamSpeak severs for voice communication.
I wish you luck! I am sure you will find a home soon. Welcome to Neverwinter!
@cwhitesidedev#9752 After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
@cwhitesidedev#9752 After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
Hi Oremonger,
Happy Holidays. I am still in the middle of mine but i am trying to stay up to date.
Multiple points here which i will try to answer in one reply. In the past i found that more folks joined the longer the initiative ran and it didn't take too long for their to be vocal representatives from all types of players and those anxious to post started gaining more confidence and it got to the point that the discussions got so big I/we needed a month break between each one. This said we intend to run CDP topics for two weeks and then a break of a week and onto the next one. The reason i don't want to publicize it to much at the moment is because:
A: I don't want people to see this as a marketing initiative because it isn't. B: Starting slowly gives time for everyone to bed in and see the value of the CDP. C: Having too many folks join right from the start can be difficult to manage in terms of knowing the rules and expectations of the initiative. Even at the moment folks are having some difficulty understanding that the thread has a specific topic.
Therefore as we get through a few threads community members will help to self regulate and help the new members of the project and make it easier for me and the team to learn from and discuss with you all.
So far this thread has been really useful, the team has been reading it and changes are being discussed already and some current ideas we are working on have been further enforced by the conversation. The only thing so far I am unhappy about is my ability to respond. Normally i am a lot more active but having just started the job, moved down and now the holidays have made this difficult. This said I should be more active soon.
Regarding publicizing the CDP we will do but only after the above goals have been worked through.
Thanks for tasking the time to post and happy holidays.
@cwhitesidedev#9752 After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
Oh and i will be more active on our streams next year (-:
@cwhitesidedev#9752 After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
Hi Oremonger,
Happy Holidays. I am still in the middle of mine but i am trying to stay up to date.
Multiple points here which i will try to answer in one reply. In the past i found that more folks joined the longer the initiative ran and it didn't take too long for their to be vocal representatives from all types of players and those anxious to post started gaining more confidence and it got to the point that the discussions got so big I/we needed a month break between each one. This said we intend to run CDP topics for two weeks and then a break of a week and onto the next one. The reason i don't want to publicize it to much at the moment is because:
A: I don't want people to see this as a marketing initiative because it isn't. B: Starting slowly gives time for everyone to bed in and see the value of the CDP. C: Having too many folks join right from the start can be difficult to manage in terms of knowing the rules and expectations of the initiative. Even at the moment folks are having some difficulty understanding that the thread has a specific topic.
Therefore as we get through a few threads community members will help to self regulate and help the new members of the project and make it easier for me and the team to learn from and discuss with you all.
So far this thread has been really useful, the team has been reading it and changes are being discussed already and some current ideas we are working on have been further enforced by the conversation. The only thing so far I am unhappy about is my ability to respond. Normally i am a lot more active but having just started the job, moved down and now the holidays have made this difficult. This said I should be more active soon.
Regarding publicizing the CDP we will do but only after the above goals have been worked through.
Thanks for tasking the time to post and happy holidays.
Chris
LOL. I think i'm safe in using the pronoun "we" here, We havent' seen this kind of activity from a dev in AGES. I don't think anyone is upset with your contribution level. TYVM. we're glad to have some dev attention.
@cwhitesidedev#9752 After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
Hi Oremonger,
Happy Holidays. I am still in the middle of mine but i am trying to stay up to date.
Multiple points here which i will try to answer in one reply. In the past i found that more folks joined the longer the initiative ran and it didn't take too long for their to be vocal representatives from all types of players and those anxious to post started gaining more confidence and it got to the point that the discussions got so big I/we needed a month break between each one. This said we intend to run CDP topics for two weeks and then a break of a week and onto the next one. The reason i don't want to publicize it to much at the moment is because:
A: I don't want people to see this as a marketing initiative because it isn't. B: Starting slowly gives time for everyone to bed in and see the value of the CDP. C: Having too many folks join right from the start can be difficult to manage in terms of knowing the rules and expectations of the initiative. Even at the moment folks are having some difficulty understanding that the thread has a specific topic.
Therefore as we get through a few threads community members will help to self regulate and help the new members of the project and make it easier for me and the team to learn from and discuss with you all.
So far this thread has been really useful, the team has been reading it and changes are being discussed already and some current ideas we are working on have been further enforced by the conversation. The only thing so far I am unhappy about is my ability to respond. Normally i am a lot more active but having just started the job, moved down and now the holidays have made this difficult. This said I should be more active soon.
Regarding publicizing the CDP we will do but only after the above goals have been worked through.
Thanks for tasking the time to post and happy holidays.
Chris
LOL. I think i'm safe in using the pronoun "we" here, We havent' seen this kind of activity from a dev in AGES. I don't think anyone is upset with your contribution level. TYVM. we're glad to have some dev attention.
Pretty much.
It will actually be hard to get anyones attention by not reaching out to other platforms, I doubt you will reach the kind of people you are obviously looking for on the forums alone. But judging from this thread alone, the problem is probably how much people you even want to reach by this program?
The history of feedback on here is imo: - honest, constructive and ultimately ignored and/or shut down feedback followed by - honest but not so constructive and/or feedback in a tone that was not well recieved followed by - silence.
(On the point of understaying that this thread has a certain topic: You will have an easier time with CDPs not interrupted by holidays, this is not completely on the players' (like me) capacity to stay on topic or understand what you want from this, but also on moderation. While I completely understand it is difficult to monitor anything during a pretty long break (and the time where many players actually do read the topic) and that I personally do have an issue with understanding certain points on here (or the mannerism that grants acceptance), I would argue that I'm the odd idiot and that the others actually have no problem in understanding what the thread is about.)
On a side note: Not all of it, but a lot of the negative vibes/voices in here were raised and educated by the rare attention they got, they didn't just trickle in and decide to bash the game, like some more white-knightery people would argue. I would probably argue (and yeah, don't worry guys, its the last point I will argue about here) that mostly everybody on the forum or the people that still follow dev streams on twitch are the people that still care and NW didn't manage to drive away from the game. If it is so hard to see passion in people that may forget their tone online, you will have a hard time maintaining enough passion ingame if there is nobody that can be lectured and educated by white-knights.
But anyway, many people put effort into this forum and into one-sided conversations before and left without it having an impact, I hope you will consider everybodys feedback and not just those that seem more useful, but it seems like you will certainly try to change things around, so I hope some people will profit of this in the future.
Yeah as said before it is a strange new world to us, for years we are used to ....silence or sarcastic comments like ''everything is fine'' or ''get good'', its like everything not related to the company ''view of the game'' is on the ignore list not caring for our opinion/feedback I saw the latest stream and there are good points about it, but meh i'm or should i say, we are used to empty promises... so no hope until i actually see some changes
Feedback Overview With mod 16 all caps to status changed, the same way all gears change status wise, this made huge changes in status, status like power were removed from rings and all companion gear lost it also. With this the demand for power increased a lot, specially since most caps like defense/crit/arpen/accuracy are archived using gear + companion gear. This made most enchantment not desired, right now all enchantments without HP and Power are not wanted, if u check AH Azure rank 13 are worth Half of Radiance, and all cost the same to make/rank up.
Feedback Goal Change the caps, like defense 50% cap every 1 get the 68/80k needed for endgame from gear. Or make gear that don’t cap all status it self, making all enchantments worth again.
Feedback Functionality Make all enchantments desired, right now Radiance is the main enchantment player use them for power/HP. Not even 2 or 3 status enchantment are desired even less if they miss Power/HP.
Risks & Concerns Cant see any risk. The only risk I see if player having to specialize more if u want to max crit u need to lose some power if u wanna max arpen u may need to not cap crit, and so on...
@cwhitesidedev#9752 I didn't mean to interrupt your Holiday Chris, sorry man. I wasn't expecting a response until next week at the earliest. I wanted to get in that post and this one before the deadline for this CDP.
I have faith in your vision and I am more than willing to help in any way I can. I think that everyone in this thread feels the same way even if we have different opinions. We rarely agree on anything, but we all love Neverwinter. (Even those of us who are a bit short tempered and disgruntled these days.) I really respect what you are trying to do here and I want you to succeed.
Back to the topic at hand. I do not expect any sort of response until after the Holidays.
GAME CONTENT ACCESSIBILITY Feedback Overview: We have already discussed the importance of Guilds and Alliances and the urgent need to give them updates and attention in this CDP. Guilds and Alliances are pivotal in helping players of all skill levels and experience access content. But this is only the very tip of the iceberg.
Many of the problems with accessibility are due to the lack of documentation, accurate tool tips and overall confusion caused by scaling, class changes and changes to gameplay mechanics that people had become accustomed to over the years. MODs 15 - 17 changed too many things too drastically without consideration to our pleas and warnings.
This game used to have a thriving community of theory crafters, hundreds of build guides and several websites dedicated to game news, Guild / Alliances, content and strategy. Many of these resources went away shortly before and shortly after MOD 16. Several really dedicated community members just gave up. IMO this lead to a collapse of a VITAL support system that many new players and veterans alike relied on which in turn created a void that IMO contributes to many if not all of the problems with game content accessibility.
Feedback Goal: To explore what influence the above external resources have/had on accessibility, why they went away and what can be done to get them back.
Feedback Functionality: When I first started playing Neverwinter the game was much more complex than it is today, but there were also quite a few community members who went out of their way to not only provide support for new players but also provide resources that helped the entire community. These community members were / are an integral part of this game who helped / help smooth over the games rough edges and educate the community. ALL of this was done with little or no support from Cryptic / PWE for years.
There used to be Quest Walkthroughs, Dungeon Guides, Build Guides, Class Synergy Guides, and entire unofficial forums dedicated to this game not to mention the dozens or even hundreds of private guild and alliance forums. At one time there were even TWO very active reddit pages and several very active Discord groups. ALL of these resources helped bridge the gap between new and old content and new and veteran players. Some of these resources are still around and active, but many are not.
Sadly I can't link to ANY of these external resources without fear of moderation on this forum. Heavy moderation is why many of these resources existed to begin with. This combined with the outdated and often misleading Wiki created both the need for and the solutions the community came up with. This is a heated topic and there are many who will argue both sides, but the simple fact is that ALL of these resources are needed and both Cryptic and some community members are to blame for the problems related to these resources in the past.
Chris DM me and I will try to get you access to some of these resources so that you can see them and judge for yourself. A few of the most trusted theory crafters and guide authors are actually already replying in this thread. Julia should be able to identify them for you if you haven't already figured out who they are. (She deserves a raise IMO.)
Reach out to these community members and ask why they stopped creating and maintaining these resources. Decide if these types of resources still fit with your vision and if so do something to either get these folks back or foster and support new community members to help them create these much needed types of resources.
Cryptic does not have the staff to do even half of what these dedicated community members have done for FREE for years without help or support. Imagine what they could do with Help and Support. I did not touch on the Youtubers and Twitch streamers in this post. This would spark an even more heated discussion. They all have their own merits and audiences and are very important members of the community who also deserve some love and attention. I would bet that every one of them would tell you that they have used the resources I mention above.
Risks & Concerns: The main drawback and risks relate to many often years old feuds between community members and some members of Cryptic staff and forum moderators. There is also still a lingering overall distrust between the two groups that will be hard to overcome. There may not be any interest in making many of these resources again. Finding community members who are willing to put in the effort needed to update and produce these resources might be hard to do these days.
Good luck and kudos for doing something that should have been done years ago.
I haven't read the whole thread but in the first few pages there are enough suggestions that if implemented I might be tempted to put some time and energy back into the game. But as others have said, you have a lot of work ahead of you if you actually want to win back the trust of the player base. Again, good luck.
I know it's too late but others have covered the game content points I would like to see implemented. But I see something more important than that here and wanted to communicate it.
Feedback Overview:
Keep the communication levels high so the community continues to support and give feedback.
If you want to see what happens to an ignored player base have a look at the many many many warlock (and others) feedback/suggestion threads on the preview forum. They start out full of positivity, positive feedback and suggestions. After a while though it degenerates into an 'Are they even listening?' discussion followed by 'they don't give a rat's **** about the players' which translates into players spending less time (and of course money) in game. Until you get the folks like me that moved on, but keep an eye on what is happening - in case it actually gets better. But some, well, they're gone for good.
Feedback Goal: Simple, help win back the player base.
Feedback Functionality:
A continual and unbroken line of communication with the player base will build loyalty to the game that can't easily be expressed. That increased loyalty to the game will increase retention rates - even in those casual players that haven't invested time or money in the game. Simply by having a strong community that is passionate about the game they play. I was one and helped many many players over the last three years, from teaching dungeon mechanics to helping explain why all these high level players are still wearing lower level items (Demon Lord set). Some of the people I helped as new players are Senior Guild Officers in their own right and are doing what I used to do. But they have become less and less.
For me and others like me, that lack of communication was actually worse than all the bugged content and ridiculous 'balance/design' changes.
I could have switched main classes, but why? 'The devs don't care about any of the players' That is what silence communicates to us.
I was a senior officer in our alliance, we had only three guilds that weren't level 20. Participation rates that were awesome - more than 150 members active in a 30 day period for 9 or 10 of our guilds. I found out this morning that only 3 of our guilds now have more than 100 members active in that 30 day period. That is a huge loss. An unnecessary loss.
Keeping the communication between devs and players high will help prevent these losses in the future.
Case in point: Scaling, recently a dev mentioned that one of the actual goals with scaling was to have players with stats at end game caps to get scaled down to the ceiling of what ever zone or area they were going into. That is a hugely important datum. Hugely important. Important to the players. Many players have left because they don't like (read as hate) being scaled to below cap in zones they should by rights be able to stomp their way through without breaking a sweat. Knowing that datum above would have taken some of the hatred out of scaling. It would still be disliked but at least you would know that it is only temporary.
Risks:
Minor: You'll get trolls and idiots attacking you or throwing BS ideas out there to confuse and upset others. Major: You get caught up in the existing problems and demands at Cryptic and can't keep this format of feedback and input going. Major: Your ideas on open communication get hammered by company executives because they aren't what they want to hear or see from you (or us).
Color-blind players need to be able to change colors in games, particularly where red = bad, green = good.
Feedback Functionality
My husband is color-blind. He has had a great deal of trouble in the past, particularly with seeing red splats on the ground when the ground is a green shade. I believe the biggest issue he had with it was back in Mod 4 & 5, when the dragon in Ebon Downs does their powers, but there have been several times since then. I think adding a color wheel or something similar would benefit color-blind players, regardless of which form of the color-blindness the player has.
Risks & Concerns
I can't really think of many risks to adding a color-wheel or similar method to change game colors on the screen, but I'm open to feedback. I wasn't really sure if this was appropriate feedback for this discussion, but since accessibility was mentioned, I felt it was worth mentioning.
ALL THE ABOVE.
The Tyrs Paladium guild and our Neverwinter Alliance are active supporters of the Able Gamers Foundation.
Perhaps as the new Boss Chris, you can find our work in this area inspirational. There are tens of MILLIONS of gamers that need the developers attention, and Neverwinter should be taking a bigger bite out of this apple.
This is truly YOUR CHANCE to make Neverwinter for EVERYONE.
Feedback Overview: Tuning of content throughout the game needs to be fixed.
I've now played Neverwinter for about 18 months. Previously I played WoW for 7 years at a competitive level. I finished with the previous game as I needed something more casual friendly which wouldn't need as much time to play. But I'm looking for something which is casual in terms of time required, not casual as in rewards for no skills.
The levelling experience, learning how to play an MMORPG
The problem with Neverwinter, is that too much of the content is trivial. Most of the levelling quests are incredibly straightforward, as are most of the campaigns. So it's little surprise that people reach maximum level (very quickly) and then find that they aren't perhaps clued-up on various aspects of their class.
I created an alt - a paladin tank - a couple of months ago. I did a few dungeons while levelling. Owing to the presence of (scaled) maximum level players in a levelling dungeon, it was impossible to learn the basics of tanking, as aggro management, using your shield etc. was completely impossible as people could charge ahead and steamroll the content; it was completely trivial.
Now I understand that people just want these things over with as quickly as possible to get their AD. But is this a good experience for new players? I doubt it. Asides from the bad experience, how does the new tank learn to block, the new healer to heal or the new dps learn to avoid damage?
Levelling dungeons should only really be for those who are levelling, or, the scaling in those dungeons should be much more severe.
The end-game experience for new and established players
Then there's the whole 'end-game' dungeons. Obviously, most of these dungeons are not really end-game as they are level 70 dungeons, but anyway -> too many of them are too easy. There's too little penalties in the game for failing (e.g. dying is but a temporary inconvenience more often than not).
Me and 4 guildmates managed to finish Lair of Mad Mage in one afternoon, having no prior knowledge of it. There's a balance to be struck between accessibility and the content being just too easy. I think at the moment it's off. The only new and challenging content in Mod 16 was one dungeon, which we managed to beat in an afternoon.
Not withstanding any of the above, there still seems to be players in random groups who are very poorly equipped to be in these dungeons. It could be that the differential between a maxed-player and a new player is much too wide. Or - it could be that players who just aren't ready to start these dungeons are joining them to get their AD. There doesn't appear to be a bridge between getting to level 80 and actually being ready for the end-game dungeons, but still being able to earn AD to be able to enchant your gear, buy upgrades so that you are ready.
Other people have suggested variants of having a 'normal' version of a dungeon and a 'heroic' version. For this to work, there'd have to be bars on access to the heroic version: e.g. has completed the normal version, and, has power of X, armor pen of Y etc. etc.
Then we'd have to look at the rewards on offer. If, for example, you can get all your AD for the day by doing the normal versions, then why would people run the heroic version, if you accept that players usually follow the path of least resistance. So - maybe rewards other than AD need to be available.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish): Better content tuned to players of different ability.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter): Levelling dungeons only for levelling characters, or more heavily scaled level 80 players. Normal and heroic versions of existing dungeons.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum):
Some of my suggestions imply that I think the power differential between a new level 80 and maximum level 80 players are too wide. I can see that people would be very unhappy with having their power scaled back via nerfs. Therefore - I think a normal and heroic version is the way forward.
My previous very long message was lost before posting, so here's a much shorter effort:
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback): Tuning of content throughout the game needs to be adjusted.
Levelling quests, old campaigns - all trivial content. No real challenge.
Levelling dungeons -> Often populated with maximum level players meaning the content is trivial. As an example, I created a paladin tank alt a few months ago. It was pointless trying to learn to tank - keep aggro, use shield etc. - in content where there were players able to steamroll through without you. It's a bad experience for new players and they also don't get to learn how to tank, heal or do dps while avoiding damage.
It's little surprise that players can reach maximum level and be not that great if they are not challenged at all in any content up to level 80.
End-game dungeons -> There are basically the level 70 dungeons which have been repurposed and LOMM. LOMM was beaten by me and four guildmates in an afternoon. There's a balance to be had between content being accessible and being too easy, but I think the balance is currently off.
Saying that - there are still many players in the end-game dungeons who are not ready to be there. Either they've not picked-up the skills of how to play their class, or, their item lvl is too low.
There doesn't appear to be a bridge between getting to level 80 and being level 80 and being end-game dungeon ready. This is because to go from being level 80 to being end-game dungeon ready, you need to raise your enchants, work on your companions, on your bonding runestones... This all takes AD. So it forces players who are not ready to go into the dungeon and trial queue finders to get the AD to be ready.
Let's be completely honest - you can barely meet the ilvl requirements, queue into a random trial, get Tiamat, have no clue what you are doing, die 20 times from standing in breath and still collect your rewards if the rest of your team is competent. This just isn't right. There's no penalty for failing repeatedly.
Perhaps the power differential between maximum level players and new level 80 players is too high? But I can't imagine maximum level players would be happy to have their power nerfed!
Maybe campaigns - rather than just being a grind that rewards boons - should also help with the character's power progression in some meaningful way for new players? Perhaps completing the campaign stages should reward AD?
Or - maybe there needs to be normal and heroic versions of the end-game dungeons. But the heroic versions should be locked to anyone who hasn't completed the normal dungeon (e.g. without dying), and have a higher minimum ilvl. And the rewards should be appropriate - if you can get all your AD from doing the normal versions, then why would you run the heroic versions?
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish): Better content tuned more appropriately for the range of players in the game while offering a reasonable progression curve.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter): Would need to overhaul a lot of content, would need to implement 2 versions of all end-game dungeons.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
3
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
edited December 2019
This is something that I've been thinking about for a while now, but things have been crazy with the holidays so I hadn't had time to put together some links and information about it.
Feedback Overview
New players have a negative experience due to chat and auction restrictions.
Feedback Goal
New players who don't have experience with games like Neverwinter are being put off by the chat restrictions. Generally in an MMO, players tend to use the chat system to try to ask questions they may have, or seek help with quests. If a brand new player has to get to level 30 without being able to ask for help in-game, it can be very off-putting, enough so that at least some percentage probably quits playing over that alone. I have some links over the years of players reaching out to forums for help on how to unlock chat - here,here, and here. There are many more threads on Reddit, asking how to unlock it.
I have also located a few past threads discussing the issue with the current system that have some valuable feedback on possible solutions. This thread by @micky1p00 and this one by @thevampinator raised some very relevant points, IMHO.
Feedback Functionality
I'm honestly not really sure exactly what Cryptic can do as a solution to this, but I really think that something needs to be done, if only to help with player retention.
Risks & Concerns
I realize that the reasons for the chat restrictions in particular were to target gold spammers, but at least on console, it has not had very much success. Gold spammers are still rampant on Xbox. I've not played on other platforms enough in recent times to see if it's been successful on PC or PS4 or not.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
Two pieces here:
- Xbox player and hardcore achievement hunter here (183/184 obtained). This game likes to add user-hostile achievements (+5 slayer rings, ToMM no death, glitched achievements, etc). It's also been claimed that achievements cannot be modified, this is blatantly untrue. Games have and will continue to do this.
My feedback is threefold:
1) Do xbox achievement checks on login/zone/etc instead of one-time or have a button press to re-check. I had to bring another character through Stardock because one glitched on me. Could you imagine getting a TOMM no death run and not getting the achievement? That would be frustrating. 2) If you're going to add no-death achievements or challenging ones, make sure there's no exclusivity around class balance, or just don't make an achievement when you know the player base is this elitist. (I regularly get ignored in Yawning Portal for having a Barbie, totally maxed, understand mechanics, etc. They'd rather have a cw/hr/tr). 3) Tweak achievements to have 'This or That' conditions to suit different play styles. E.g. 'Complete ToMM without Dying as a group -or- 'Complete ToMM without personally dying 10 times'. Where it's challenging, but still offers opportunity when you may not have solid peers.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
Achievements should be tough, but no death runs are infuriating especially when there's some level of RNG/bugs involved (e.g. have heard of hands not being visible in ToMM phase 2). The goal is to a) allow non-meta classes get the achievements, b) allow players that may not always have the same 10-stack of people to get difficult achievements and c) give people their credit when they've already completed their objectives.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
- It requires adding the capability to re-check achievements, either through UI or on back-end. - It may require redesigning achievements (especially if you believe they cannot be modified, because they definitely can be, see Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege for example - https://www.trueachievements.com/n38072/rainbow-six-siege-achievement-changes). - And it naturally requires balancing non-meta classes such that the game doesn't get so exclusionary (my alliance has been pretty great about this, but outside it is not the case).
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Nothing, you literally make the people that didn't get the achievement happy, you make non-meta classes happy and you encourage more hunters to stick around. You might irritate the 1 person on TA that has the tomm no-death achievement. But 1 out of thousands?
Comments
The main topic right now is that how can Cryptic make content that can be enjoyed and be accessible for all types of audiences? So the 3 main audiences are Lore Lovers (usually solo type of players), Newcomers (not yet end game) and end game/hardcore players. PVP needs a different CDP thread for its vastness.
So far many people have recommended gating content behind tiers and I personally am keen on the POE endless dungeon where you always have the option to grind and the challenge just keeps getting tougher.
Many people just want to enjoy bashing some trash after work or school, so endless dungeons caters to them as well as end gamers. Lore lovers would require a full blown out story based dungeon and am not too sure if Cryptic has thought about merging endless dungeons with story based as an alternative option.
And many people prefer to play solo a lot, so I guess they should keep something that can be done solo instead of only dungeons (and dungeons watered down to solo level won't really fit that space). In the guilds I have seen, most players are doing solo or community events (dragonflight, etc.) to keep it easy when they want it.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Feedback Overview: A small guide or event order to make the story consistent.
Feedback Goal: I would like to propose a small tab or list of the order of events in certain story chains. Upon reaching max level, all kinds of campaigns and content becomes available and can be taken out of order. Sometimes this can be jarring. I am introduced to Makos in Maze Engine, i take a break from maze engine when it gets a little grindy and check out chult only for me to learn Makos died, was mourned in River district only to bee back again in chult. I kinda would have liked to know the stoory order so i could have done them for a proper Narritivee experience.
Feedback Functionality: Impact would be minimal as it could be nothing more than a page with Narrative strings laid out like: Maze Engine-> River District-> Jungles of chult. Since many adventures are rather self contained they can be left off or labled as such, but if there is a running plot thread or one campaign is meant to occurred narritivally after another, it would be marked as such and the order given but in an optional tab in your journal.
Risks & Concerns: Some May compelled too do it in prescribed order, but a text box or voice over can makee it clear that following this order is entirely optional.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
In reality when you think about it, DnD, was never an Open World Game, when you played with your friends, some other group of players didn't come along and enter your campaign, kill your mobs, steal your loot, and save the town, you had your own private instance that you played in, and other players had theirs. So PVE definitely is more defining of D&D than PVP.
But NW is not only a D&D based game, it is an MMO. There has to be balance between the both. I can understand your argument, however there are plenty of D&Dish single player RPG games already offering that. MMO's are not pure RPG's where you are alone in the world and role play. This is a massive multiplayer online game and that to free to play. How can the game ever hope to stay F2P as an MMO but only having campaigns that are basically another version of RPG but far inferior?
I also beg to differ, why do people make it out that an endless dungeon and D&D story based campaigns are mutually exclusive? Are we even getting anywhere with these discussions because i am having to read people telling NW to actually break its roots and completely revert to a story based solo type of MMMOOO??
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
As a simple example, I remember when Ravenloft first dropped, and when enough people were finally eligible, trying to run PUGs in CR.
That first major battle with the Sisters was about a 1 in 20 chance of getting through, and even then that would involve three or four drop outs and reinforcements. That was a relatively simple game mechanic, once you understood it. But learning it was a steep curve if you didn't have patient friends prepared to guide you through.
If two tiered content is too resource/time restrictive, as a more left field idea, I don't know whether there might be a way to have a "Hints" version of content?
Basically, you opt to run the content at a lower reward rank, but get pop ups a la the normal tutorials telling you what the specific encounter requires. Either in terms of general tips, or flat out explanations.
As far as the new player experience goes, I recently ran a new Gith character through the revised starting campaign process. While the new artwork on Tower District, and so on are nice touches, the levelling process is still pretty confusing. With "Legacy Campaigns" now extending all the way up to Ravenloft it feels like a long way for new players to catch up to new content at the Undermountain stage, particularly when they will be Level 80 long before getting there if they are going to try and proceed in any sort of linear fashion.
But, of course, any player is going to head straight for the newest content they are eligible for, so will complete Undermountain probably before they complete Elemental Evil. Meaning they will be doing most of those Legacy campaigns as a L80 and finding them, frankly, lacking in challenge and a somewhat tiresome grind in order to get Boons, because none of the gear from those campaigns is fit for purpose at L80.
I think that one thing that might help alleviate this somewhat would be updating the rewards for campaign staging. Such as the enchants from Tyranny. Rank 3? Sorry, that's barely worth converting to RP for anyone, and any player with an ounce of sense will join a decent guild whose members will help fit them out with R7s across the board as a MINIMUM. If you don't want to give out R7s and 8s for that easy content swap it out for a decent RP reward, as that will be a big help for people chasing base parity at L80. They'll be looking at refining 4 (probably basic) artifacts, 4 artifact gear pieces, and probably 3 Bondings all at the same time in order to be relevant in queue content.
Helping them get that helps us all.
It's lots of little things that if updated would make the levelling experience a bit less of a grind.
I like the idea of MEs, instanced hunts, and what not (though with less RNG layers) for the more solo minded players, but it should not take away from the group content, as this is an MMO, and group content should be the core source of replay-ability. The campaign is the story and lore, with maybe a bit of a mini, solo dungeon at the end for sense of closure and completion. The Dungeons/events are the group content with the high end rewards to entice players to want to repeatedly play and come back.
There could be more group content, there could be better campaigns, everybody would be happy. (Or nah, then we would still be discussing whether or not nerfs are allowed, especially for GWF CW.)
People actually play games for different reasons, and I can have a multiplayer experience without dungeons. Of course, that defies the D&D "setting", where we are constantly running Dungeons (twice a year) and fighting Dragons.
I forgot: There is a huge difference between solo RPG (was it you that mentioned Witcher 3 and Skyrim?) and MMOs, and it IS the community. Being a member of a community, contributing to a bigger goal, helping out, chatting is not bound to group-content, but bound to a game with an active community. That is why there are people in NW that have a solo-preference. I love Witcher 3. But I DO know its just NPCs.
That doesn't mean that people with that preference can't run group content or are generally unwilling to. I am, for one, unwilling to run group content with nasty people, so I don't. That also means that I will leave what I consider a bad environment and maybe solo if I'm already pissed of, and it means that I would rather run a few DR lairs if my usual group is not online and I'm not up for pugs. Is that the evil solo kind of way? I don't know.
There should be a focus on the dungeons, but in my opinion just bringing out new dungeons is not a good idea, if they continue their path of purpose: It has a purpose, then its dead. The rewards are HAMSTER. Please let the game punish us for spending our time on dungeons when I could farm 10 ses in that timeframe.
I would look forward to high quality dungeons. But I also liked to solo dungeons. I liked to duo dungeons. I liked to invite ppl for last boss. I liked getting completely destroyed trying out new builds solo in FBI.
But I can also see that my experience is not everybody else's, and that 50 new dungeons couldn't change the problems in this game, either.
And yeah, what I said was: I know its your main argument, but why does that have to be ultimately correct, just because its what you think?
Your way of arguing is always the same, and it could always be cut short like this: This is what I do, thats why its correct. So no, I try not to read your comments too much.
You cannot validate your point that the single-oriented players in this game wouldn't create enough revenue to let it stay ftp, because there is no data to it, its your opinion. Why do you think in a D&D related MMO we got so many campaigns and solo-able content if it is bad for the ftp aspect?
That is what pissed me off so much about Mod 17. It catered only to the super-hard-core crowd. "Oh but you have 16 other mods worth of content". Yeah well you're bored with that stuff, I'm bored with that stuff too.
If there was a normal version of TOMM then that would go a long way to satisfying this class of players. Maybe then I'd actually be able to experience the new content.
The game has had a mixture of campaigns and dungeons so it has tried to cater for both PVE and lore lovers. Now that NW is on its last legs, players are suggesting to Hamster dungeons and just focus on campaign, why shouldn't i argue with them when i am the game's customer just as they are? Why do my replies reflect inclusion of diversity of all types of audiences but not so vice versa?
So i repeat, can we stop going off topic? The topic is about accessibility, not about catering to THAT one audience who represents NW the best. I'd also welcome the revenue statistics from the dev's, please tell me why they decided to focus on end gamers aka TOMM in mod 17 when they lost nearly half of their playerbase in mod 16? What ideas do you have jules?
Hi, I hope that someone has already reached out to you given that several of the people posting in this thread are guild leaders and officers in many of the larger guilds in Neverwinter, but if not I would like to offer a few suggestions to help you work around the problems you mentioned. Like you I had the same problems when I first started playing, but I was lucky to find a guild rather quickly using the following resources.
There are several places you can find information about guilds outside of the game. One of the best places is here on these forums. You will need to look in the section for the platform you are playing on and then find the subforum. The Subforum for PC is...
GUILD & ALLIANCE RECRUITMENT (PC)
I would read through the threads and see which guild fits with your playstyle and level of commitment.
Another place to find a guild is on the Neverwinter reddit. There are only a few for each platform listed there but if you make a post listing what platform you are on and what kind of guild you are looking for I'm sure you will get a response.
You can also look on the Protector's Enclave discord channel.
Once you are in a Guild you can use your Guild and Alliance chat to communicate. Many Guilds even have Discord or TeamSpeak severs for voice communication.
I wish you luck! I am sure you will find a home soon. Welcome to Neverwinter!
After reading all of the posts in this thread I see a little problem. Most of the responses and ideas/feedback are from the same ~ 50 or so people who usually post here on the forums. Many are still VERY passionate about their pet peeves, and still very vocal. These folks need to know that they have been heard, but also IMO be told so in the Dozens or Hundreds of threads that already exists about those subjects instead of in the CDP. This is why I fear that every CDP will slowly devolve into the same old discussions and arguments IF you only do one CDP per month. This isn't my main concern though.
I am really excited about this new initiative, and have done my best to publicize it in my guild. Forgive me, but the truth is they are some pretty jaded folks these days. Many have been burned one too many times so getting them to post here is an uphill battle. Many have already seen what MOD 18 looks like on preview, and TBH I have a feeling that it's not going to be pretty for you guys at release. (Not getting into that here.)
Please give some thought into publicizing the CDP just like you would a New MOD release. What you are doing is important and I think you are not getting the bang for your buck that you could be getting. Please consider using Direct email, social media, Neverwinter Youtubers and Streamers, Reddit and Discord to spread the word. The Community needs to know you are serious and engauged. The Community needs to know about the new engagement from QA and the efforts you are making here. The Stream you did was great, but the live audience was only about 300 people and the Youtube Video only has 1.3k views as of the date of this post.
I realize that the Holidays have slowed things down quite a bit, but you really need more input / participation from a wider audience than what you are getting now. And like @adinosii said so well in an earlier post, you really should be asking those who no longer play WHY they no longer play. Those people are not on these forums anymore. Direct email might get them back.
I only wish you had started this earlier, I hope MOD 18.... Yikes man. Really?
Happy Holidays. I am still in the middle of mine but i am trying to stay up to date.
Multiple points here which i will try to answer in one reply. In the past i found that more folks joined the longer the initiative ran and it didn't take too long for their to be vocal representatives from all types of players and those anxious to post started gaining more confidence and it got to the point that the discussions got so big I/we needed a month break between each one. This said we intend to run CDP topics for two weeks and then a break of a week and onto the next one. The reason i don't want to publicize it to much at the moment is because:
A: I don't want people to see this as a marketing initiative because it isn't.
B: Starting slowly gives time for everyone to bed in and see the value of the CDP.
C: Having too many folks join right from the start can be difficult to manage in terms of knowing the rules and expectations of the initiative. Even at the moment folks are having some difficulty understanding that the thread has a specific topic.
Therefore as we get through a few threads community members will help to self regulate and help the new members of the project and make it easier for me and the team to learn from and discuss with you all.
So far this thread has been really useful, the team has been reading it and changes are being discussed already and some current ideas we are working on have been further enforced by the conversation. The only thing so far I am unhappy about is my ability to respond. Normally i am a lot more active but having just started the job, moved down and now the holidays have made this difficult. This said I should be more active soon.
Regarding publicizing the CDP we will do but only after the above goals have been worked through.
Thanks for tasking the time to post and happy holidays.
Chris
Chris
It will actually be hard to get anyones attention by not reaching out to other platforms, I doubt you will reach the kind of people you are obviously looking for on the forums alone.
But judging from this thread alone, the problem is probably how much people you even want to reach by this program?
The history of feedback on here is imo:
- honest, constructive and ultimately ignored and/or shut down feedback followed by
- honest but not so constructive and/or feedback in a tone that was not well recieved followed by
- silence.
(On the point of understaying that this thread has a certain topic: You will have an easier time with CDPs not interrupted by holidays, this is not completely on the players' (like me) capacity to stay on topic or understand what you want from this, but also on moderation. While I completely understand it is difficult to monitor anything during a pretty long break (and the time where many players actually do read the topic) and that I personally do have an issue with understanding certain points on here (or the mannerism that grants acceptance), I would argue that I'm the odd idiot and that the others actually have no problem in understanding what the thread is about.)
On a side note:
Not all of it, but a lot of the negative vibes/voices in here were raised and educated by the rare attention they got, they didn't just trickle in and decide to bash the game, like some more white-knightery people would argue. I would probably argue (and yeah, don't worry guys, its the last point I will argue about here) that mostly everybody on the forum or the people that still follow dev streams on twitch are the people that still care and NW didn't manage to drive away from the game. If it is so hard to see passion in people that may forget their tone online, you will have a hard time maintaining enough passion ingame if there is nobody that can be lectured and educated by white-knights.
But anyway, many people put effort into this forum and into one-sided conversations before and left without it having an impact, I hope you will consider everybodys feedback and not just those that seem more useful, but it seems like you will certainly try to change things around, so I hope some people will profit of this in the future.
I saw the latest stream and there are good points about it, but meh i'm or should i say, we are used to empty promises... so no hope until i actually see some changes
winning back the player base trust is going to be a challenge.
but I look forward to it. I hope you do turn it around. I don't want things to be the way they've been.
With mod 16 all caps to status changed, the same way all gears change status wise, this made huge changes in status, status like power were removed from rings and all companion gear lost it also. With this the demand for power increased a lot, specially since most caps like defense/crit/arpen/accuracy are archived using gear + companion gear.
This made most enchantment not desired, right now all enchantments without HP and Power are not wanted, if u check AH Azure rank 13 are worth Half of Radiance, and all cost the same to make/rank up.
Feedback Goal
Change the caps, like defense 50% cap every 1 get the 68/80k needed for endgame from gear. Or make gear that don’t cap all status it self, making all enchantments worth again.
Feedback Functionality
Make all enchantments desired, right now Radiance is the main enchantment player use them for power/HP. Not even 2 or 3 status enchantment are desired even less if they miss Power/HP.
Risks & Concerns
Cant see any risk. The only risk I see if player having to specialize more if u want to max crit u need to lose some power if u wanna max arpen u may need to not cap crit, and so on...
I didn't mean to interrupt your Holiday Chris, sorry man. I wasn't expecting a response until next week at the earliest. I wanted to get in that post and this one before the deadline for this CDP.
I have faith in your vision and I am more than willing to help in any way I can. I think that everyone in this thread feels the same way even if we have different opinions. We rarely agree on anything, but we all love Neverwinter. (Even those of us who are a bit short tempered and disgruntled these days.) I really respect what you are trying to do here and I want you to succeed.
Back to the topic at hand. I do not expect any sort of response until after the Holidays.
GAME CONTENT ACCESSIBILITY
Feedback Overview:
We have already discussed the importance of Guilds and Alliances and the urgent need to give them updates and attention in this CDP. Guilds and Alliances are pivotal in helping players of all skill levels and experience access content. But this is only the very tip of the iceberg.
Many of the problems with accessibility are due to the lack of documentation, accurate tool tips and overall confusion caused by scaling, class changes and changes to gameplay mechanics that people had become accustomed to over the years. MODs 15 - 17 changed too many things too drastically without consideration to our pleas and warnings.
This game used to have a thriving community of theory crafters, hundreds of build guides and several websites dedicated to game news, Guild / Alliances, content and strategy. Many of these resources went away shortly before and shortly after MOD 16. Several really dedicated community members just gave up. IMO this lead to a collapse of a VITAL support system that many new players and veterans alike relied on which in turn created a void that IMO contributes to many if not all of the problems with game content accessibility.
Feedback Goal:
To explore what influence the above external resources have/had on accessibility, why they went away and what can be done to get them back.
Feedback Functionality:
When I first started playing Neverwinter the game was much more complex than it is today, but there were also quite a few community members who went out of their way to not only provide support for new players but also provide resources that helped the entire community. These community members were / are an integral part of this game who helped / help smooth over the games rough edges and educate the community. ALL of this was done with little or no support from Cryptic / PWE for years.
There used to be Quest Walkthroughs, Dungeon Guides, Build Guides, Class Synergy Guides, and entire unofficial forums dedicated to this game not to mention the dozens or even hundreds of private guild and alliance forums. At one time there were even TWO very active reddit pages and several very active Discord groups. ALL of these resources helped bridge the gap between new and old content and new and veteran players. Some of these resources are still around and active, but many are not.
Sadly I can't link to ANY of these external resources without fear of moderation on this forum. Heavy moderation is why many of these resources existed to begin with. This combined with the outdated and often misleading Wiki created both the need for and the solutions the community came up with. This is a heated topic and there are many who will argue both sides, but the simple fact is that ALL of these resources are needed and both Cryptic and some community members are to blame for the problems related to these resources in the past.
Chris DM me and I will try to get you access to some of these resources so that you can see them and judge for yourself.
A few of the most trusted theory crafters and guide authors are actually already replying in this thread. Julia should be able to identify them for you if you haven't already figured out who they are. (She deserves a raise IMO.)
Reach out to these community members and ask why they stopped creating and maintaining these resources. Decide if these types of resources still fit with your vision and if so do something to either get these folks back or foster and support new community members to help them create these much needed types of resources.
Cryptic does not have the staff to do even half of what these dedicated community members have done for FREE for years without help or support. Imagine what they could do with Help and Support. I did not touch on the Youtubers and Twitch streamers in this post. This would spark an even more heated discussion. They all have their own merits and audiences and are very important members of the community who also deserve some love and attention. I would bet that every one of them would tell you that they have used the resources I mention above.
Risks & Concerns: The main drawback and risks relate to many often years old feuds between community members and some members of Cryptic staff and forum moderators. There is also still a lingering overall distrust between the two groups that will be hard to overcome. There may not be any interest in making many of these resources again. Finding community members who are willing to put in the effort needed to update and produce these resources might be hard to do these days.
Good luck and kudos for doing something that should have been done years ago.
I haven't read the whole thread but in the first few pages there are enough suggestions that if implemented I might be tempted to put some time and energy back into the game. But as others have said, you have a lot of work ahead of you if you actually want to win back the trust of the player base. Again, good luck.
I know it's too late but others have covered the game content points I would like to see implemented. But I see something more important than that here and wanted to communicate it.
Feedback Overview:
Keep the communication levels high so the community continues to support and give feedback.
If you want to see what happens to an ignored player base have a look at the many many many warlock (and others) feedback/suggestion threads on the preview forum. They start out full of positivity, positive feedback and suggestions. After a while though it degenerates into an 'Are they even listening?' discussion followed by 'they don't give a rat's **** about the players' which translates into players spending less time (and of course money) in game. Until you get the folks like me that moved on, but keep an eye on what is happening - in case it actually gets better. But some, well, they're gone for good.
Feedback Goal: Simple, help win back the player base.
Feedback Functionality:
A continual and unbroken line of communication with the player base will build loyalty to the game that can't easily be expressed. That increased loyalty to the game will increase retention rates - even in those casual players that haven't invested time or money in the game. Simply by having a strong community that is passionate about the game they play. I was one and helped many many players over the last three years, from teaching dungeon mechanics to helping explain why all these high level players are still wearing lower level items (Demon Lord set). Some of the people I helped as new players are Senior Guild Officers in their own right and are doing what I used to do. But they have become less and less.
For me and others like me, that lack of communication was actually worse than all the bugged content and ridiculous 'balance/design' changes.
I could have switched main classes, but why? 'The devs don't care about any of the players' That is what silence communicates to us.
I was a senior officer in our alliance, we had only three guilds that weren't level 20. Participation rates that were awesome - more than 150 members active in a 30 day period for 9 or 10 of our guilds. I found out this morning that only 3 of our guilds now have more than 100 members active in that 30 day period. That is a huge loss. An unnecessary loss.
Keeping the communication between devs and players high will help prevent these losses in the future.
Case in point: Scaling, recently a dev mentioned that one of the actual goals with scaling was to have players with stats at end game caps to get scaled down to the ceiling of what ever zone or area they were going into. That is a hugely important datum. Hugely important. Important to the players. Many players have left because they don't like (read as hate) being scaled to below cap in zones they should by rights be able to stomp their way through without breaking a sweat. Knowing that datum above would have taken some of the hatred out of scaling. It would still be disliked but at least you would know that it is only temporary.
Risks:
Minor: You'll get trolls and idiots attacking you or throwing BS ideas out there to confuse and upset others.
Major: You get caught up in the existing problems and demands at Cryptic and can't keep this format of feedback and input going.
Major: Your ideas on open communication get hammered by company executives because they aren't what they want to hear or see from you (or us).
All the best,
Angels
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
The Tyrs Paladium guild and our Neverwinter Alliance are active supporters of the Able Gamers Foundation.
Perhaps as the new Boss Chris, you can find our work in this area inspirational. There are tens of MILLIONS of gamers that need the developers attention, and Neverwinter should be taking a bigger bite out of this apple.
This is truly YOUR CHANCE to make Neverwinter for EVERYONE.
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I've now played Neverwinter for about 18 months. Previously I played WoW for 7 years at a competitive level. I finished with the previous game as I needed something more casual friendly which wouldn't need as much time to play. But I'm looking for something which is casual in terms of time required, not casual as in rewards for no skills.
The levelling experience, learning how to play an MMORPG
The problem with Neverwinter, is that too much of the content is trivial. Most of the levelling quests are incredibly straightforward, as are most of the campaigns. So it's little surprise that people reach maximum level (very quickly) and then find that they aren't perhaps clued-up on various aspects of their class.
I created an alt - a paladin tank - a couple of months ago. I did a few dungeons while levelling. Owing to the presence of (scaled) maximum level players in a levelling dungeon, it was impossible to learn the basics of tanking, as aggro management, using your shield etc. was completely impossible as people could charge ahead and steamroll the content; it was completely trivial.
Now I understand that people just want these things over with as quickly as possible to get their AD. But is this a good experience for new players? I doubt it. Asides from the bad experience, how does the new tank learn to block, the new healer to heal or the new dps learn to avoid damage?
Levelling dungeons should only really be for those who are levelling, or, the scaling in those dungeons should be much more severe.
The end-game experience for new and established players
Then there's the whole 'end-game' dungeons. Obviously, most of these dungeons are not really end-game as they are level 70 dungeons, but anyway -> too many of them are too easy. There's too little penalties in the game for failing (e.g. dying is but a temporary inconvenience more often than not).
Me and 4 guildmates managed to finish Lair of Mad Mage in one afternoon, having no prior knowledge of it. There's a balance to be struck between accessibility and the content being just too easy. I think at the moment it's off. The only new and challenging content in Mod 16 was one dungeon, which we managed to beat in an afternoon.
Not withstanding any of the above, there still seems to be players in random groups who are very poorly equipped to be in these dungeons. It could be that the differential between a maxed-player and a new player is much too wide. Or - it could be that players who just aren't ready to start these dungeons are joining them to get their AD. There doesn't appear to be a bridge between getting to level 80 and actually being ready for the end-game dungeons, but still being able to earn AD to be able to enchant your gear, buy upgrades so that you are ready.
Other people have suggested variants of having a 'normal' version of a dungeon and a 'heroic' version. For this to work, there'd have to be bars on access to the heroic version: e.g. has completed the normal version, and, has power of X, armor pen of Y etc. etc.
Then we'd have to look at the rewards on offer. If, for example, you can get all your AD for the day by doing the normal versions, then why would people run the heroic version, if you accept that players usually follow the path of least resistance. So - maybe rewards other than AD need to be available.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish): Better content tuned to players of different ability.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter): Levelling dungeons only for levelling characters, or more heavily scaled level 80 players. Normal and heroic versions of existing dungeons.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum):
Some of my suggestions imply that I think the power differential between a new level 80 and maximum level 80 players are too wide. I can see that people would be very unhappy with having their power scaled back via nerfs. Therefore - I think a normal and heroic version is the way forward.
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback): Tuning of content throughout the game needs to be adjusted.
Levelling quests, old campaigns - all trivial content. No real challenge.
Levelling dungeons -> Often populated with maximum level players meaning the content is trivial. As an example, I created a paladin tank alt a few months ago. It was pointless trying to learn to tank - keep aggro, use shield etc. - in content where there were players able to steamroll through without you. It's a bad experience for new players and they also don't get to learn how to tank, heal or do dps while avoiding damage.
It's little surprise that players can reach maximum level and be not that great if they are not challenged at all in any content up to level 80.
End-game dungeons -> There are basically the level 70 dungeons which have been repurposed and LOMM. LOMM was beaten by me and four guildmates in an afternoon. There's a balance to be had between content being accessible and being too easy, but I think the balance is currently off.
Saying that - there are still many players in the end-game dungeons who are not ready to be there. Either they've not picked-up the skills of how to play their class, or, their item lvl is too low.
There doesn't appear to be a bridge between getting to level 80 and being level 80 and being end-game dungeon ready. This is because to go from being level 80 to being end-game dungeon ready, you need to raise your enchants, work on your companions, on your bonding runestones... This all takes AD. So it forces players who are not ready to go into the dungeon and trial queue finders to get the AD to be ready.
Let's be completely honest - you can barely meet the ilvl requirements, queue into a random trial, get Tiamat, have no clue what you are doing, die 20 times from standing in breath and still collect your rewards if the rest of your team is competent. This just isn't right. There's no penalty for failing repeatedly.
Perhaps the power differential between maximum level players and new level 80 players is too high? But I can't imagine maximum level players would be happy to have their power nerfed!
Maybe campaigns - rather than just being a grind that rewards boons - should also help with the character's power progression in some meaningful way for new players? Perhaps completing the campaign stages should reward AD?
Or - maybe there needs to be normal and heroic versions of the end-game dungeons. But the heroic versions should be locked to anyone who hasn't completed the normal dungeon (e.g. without dying), and have a higher minimum ilvl. And the rewards should be appropriate - if you can get all your AD from doing the normal versions, then why would you run the heroic versions?
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish): Better content tuned more appropriately for the range of players in the game while offering a reasonable progression curve.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter): Would need to overhaul a lot of content, would need to implement 2 versions of all end-game dungeons.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Feedback Overview
New players have a negative experience due to chat and auction restrictions.Feedback Goal
New players who don't have experience with games like Neverwinter are being put off by the chat restrictions. Generally in an MMO, players tend to use the chat system to try to ask questions they may have, or seek help with quests. If a brand new player has to get to level 30 without being able to ask for help in-game, it can be very off-putting, enough so that at least some percentage probably quits playing over that alone. I have some links over the years of players reaching out to forums for help on how to unlock chat - here, here, and here. There are many more threads on Reddit, asking how to unlock it.I have also located a few past threads discussing the issue with the current system that have some valuable feedback on possible solutions. This thread by @micky1p00 and this one by @thevampinator raised some very relevant points, IMHO.
Feedback Functionality
I'm honestly not really sure exactly what Cryptic can do as a solution to this, but I really think that something needs to be done, if only to help with player retention.Risks & Concerns
I realize that the reasons for the chat restrictions in particular were to target gold spammers, but at least on console, it has not had very much success. Gold spammers are still rampant on Xbox. I've not played on other platforms enough in recent times to see if it's been successful on PC or PS4 or not.Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Two pieces here:
- Xbox player and hardcore achievement hunter here (183/184 obtained). This game likes to add user-hostile achievements (+5 slayer rings, ToMM no death, glitched achievements, etc). It's also been claimed that achievements cannot be modified, this is blatantly untrue. Games have and will continue to do this.
My feedback is threefold:
1) Do xbox achievement checks on login/zone/etc instead of one-time or have a button press to re-check. I had to bring another character through Stardock because one glitched on me. Could you imagine getting a TOMM no death run and not getting the achievement? That would be frustrating.
2) If you're going to add no-death achievements or challenging ones, make sure there's no exclusivity around class balance, or just don't make an achievement when you know the player base is this elitist. (I regularly get ignored in Yawning Portal for having a Barbie, totally maxed, understand mechanics, etc. They'd rather have a cw/hr/tr).
3) Tweak achievements to have 'This or That' conditions to suit different play styles. E.g. 'Complete ToMM without Dying as a group -or- 'Complete ToMM without personally dying 10 times'. Where it's challenging, but still offers opportunity when you may not have solid peers.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
Achievements should be tough, but no death runs are infuriating especially when there's some level of RNG/bugs involved (e.g. have heard of hands not being visible in ToMM phase 2). The goal is to a) allow non-meta classes get the achievements, b) allow players that may not always have the same 10-stack of people to get difficult achievements and c) give people their credit when they've already completed their objectives.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
- It requires adding the capability to re-check achievements, either through UI or on back-end.
- It may require redesigning achievements (especially if you believe they cannot be modified, because they definitely can be, see Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege for example - https://www.trueachievements.com/n38072/rainbow-six-siege-achievement-changes).
- And it naturally requires balancing non-meta classes such that the game doesn't get so exclusionary (my alliance has been pretty great about this, but outside it is not the case).
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Nothing, you literally make the people that didn't get the achievement happy, you make non-meta classes happy and you encourage more hunters to stick around. You might irritate the 1 person on TA that has the tomm no-death achievement. But 1 out of thousands?