Well, right now we're going to be more wanted than ranger, but that's only cause stuff is still broken and causes damage to zero out. I think, from my experience, that the damage isn't actually too far behind other classes on average. But I do agree with the sentiment that it just isn't fun right now. This doesn't feel like a rogue to me.
well without significant stealth mechanic, rogue seems no more that a ranger who lossed his bow, with less aoe's and less buff
@noworries#8859 Can we please have explanation or justification why our magnitude on single target powers has been reduced (lashing blade etc.) especialy when we are probably only class in the game without any class mechanics (due insignificant stealth mechanic granting CA that every player can achieve and cap)? Buff of multi target powers isnt justification as it just makes rogues a bit less useless in multitarget combat and due reduced damage basicaly same useless on single target combat.
2
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Really finding it hard to anticipate the new mod with what appears to be clumsily arranged skills in a paragon grab bag. Rogue class mechanics need work, skills need synergies. Yet again, major upcoming mod and devs are silent as many players have offered their input....
i see gf and barb got some dev attention.. any other classes.....
FYI DC, GF, Barb and OP were heavily supportet by one singel dev. TR, CW, SW and Hunter by a margin of 100.000% less ... approximately. On warlocks side there was not one singel change towards the class, considered as a response to given feetback, same as there was not one direct response to any post, not one! Some fixes were done, severe bugs still exist (gamebreaking ones), a class feature got switched with each other for no good reason. That´s how crytptics thinks communication with playerbase should look like. 200 responses in one thread , zero in the other, simply ignonrant to the bone.
1. In Whisperknife paragon, Last Moments is significant damage increase and it is more suited to be a t4 feat than t1. On the other hand, Shadowy Opportunity is additional proc for 15% weapon damage and not worth the t4 spot that it has so I suggest changing the places of these two. 2. Shuriken Toss sadly wasnt received well among TR and for a good reason, its simply not good, too slow and low target number cap. We would welcome aoe atwill like HR's Clear the Ground over Shuriken Toss anytime, any day. 3. In Assassin paragon, rename the Execution feat into Venom Master and change effect - when target is under 50% HP our attacks got 10% chance to deal 100 magnitude to the target. (up from 20% HP and down from 200 magnitude) 4. Toxic Blades feat cannot be stacked up to 5 times if it lasts 9 secs when our best single target encounter cooldowns are 13, 14 and 17 seconds seconds. Increase the feat's duration to 15 seconds and reduce cooldowns of all Assassin specific encounters by 1 seconds, 2 seconds for Wicked Reminder. 5. Invisible Infiltrator - increase the duration of the effect to 20 seconds after Daily activation. 6. First strike - additionally increases damage by 5% for 10 secs. 7 .Infiltrator's Action - increased duration of the effect to 20 seconds. 8. Bloodbath - add secondary effect + 20% run speed for 5 secs. 9. Increase the effect of passive Tactics from 10% to 20%. 10. Additional effect for Sneak Attack - while stealthed increase critical severity by 20%.
11. Stealth - additionally to current effects, it grants auto-crit like it used to. 12. Stealth recharge - no other class is unable to use their Tab ability when they have aggro, which is the case with Rogue class. Stealth needs to constantly regenerate at the same pace, independent of taking damage or anything else. Feat and class features providing this should be removed/reworked into something else. The problem with Stealth in PvP is gone ever since we became visible once we started attacking. This needs to be fixed as it is very annoying when we have aggro in boss fights and are unable to ever use Stealth. 13. DF Bleeds dont proc feat Assassin's Target.
> @blur#5900 said: > Give us the AtWill that HR's have with similar animation to our BladeFlurry encounter. That's AoE atwill we need and effect of final strike is to hit with doubled damage and such atwill is welcome in both Paragons.
This is something I think TRs have needed for a long time. It would definitely help with surviving soloing waiting for the long encounter cooldowns to reset.
> @rustlord said: > But monsters don't care. But it can be marketable to PvE if you built on those aspects and tweak content mechanics to where "stealth" is useful. At minimum, a temporary FEAR type debuff on an enemy you attack from stealth.
Fear would be an interesting mechanic to add to stealth to add SOMETHING. As others have mentioned CA won't cut it (pun intended), and with our 100% crit chance in stealth gone...
Sneak Attack & Tenacious Concealment class feature.
Choose feat master of shadows.
Great flow combat I think by combo to begin leveling with for 80.
Master Boon that helps with recharge of encounters later.
Dazing Strike Lashing Blade Blade Fury
GloamingCut or CloudOfSteel (Encounters reasons for distance) Duelist Flurry
Whisperknife, well lurkers of course and shady preparations just by looking at it. I haven't tried Whisperknife path yet as 2nd layout.
Hope this helps anyone?
I'm tearing it up and I don't have my ability scores set LOL. Still waiting for my 16STR-18DEX ability start roll back for my rogue. I want more STR rather than DEX. Either +3STR or +3DEX when starting new rogue character as I found out. So I want my 16STR-18DEX back like what I had in Mod 15. All rogues were set +3DEX by default with Mod 16 update, which I wanted more damage dealt with +3STR.
> @king1slayer said: > Smoke Bomb: Lower it's cooldown. Bait and Switch: Same as Smoke bomb, lower the cooldown. Also, why not make it explode when the duration ends? Would be nice since we can see/remove traps, we should also place some too.
> @kovu#3307 said: > Give us something to support the group when were not the only or strongest dps. Rework Whisperknife in a support paragon based on debuffing (to the extend m16 allows) and crowd control while having high stealth regen and duration. This would allow new encounters like for example a flashbang that blinds enemies, interrupts their actions and decreases their defenses for a certain amount of time. It would give stealth an actual meaning. Every power used within stealth could leave enemies in a "confused" state, allowing us to attack them while they dont fight back for a few seconds. Let us place a real decoy that lures enemies to a place where we can slaughter them together. There would be so many possibilities...
A confuse/debuff mechanic added to stealth would also be a viable option for improvement.
Duelist's Flurry's CC immunity frame is bugged in mod 16 and no longer works against most CCs:
Before I explain the bug, here is a little bit of info about this attack for context:
The rogue power duelist's flurry has always consisted of two swings followed by a flurry of smaller attacks. During the flurry stage, the person using this attack is locked in place and can't move until they either dodge or the attack ends. This lockdown is pretty long compared to most attacks out there and one full attack combo takes 3 to 4 seconds to complete from start to finish. The flurry stage is also what does most of this attack's damage.
Because of this long lockdown, this attack grants you CC immunity during the flurry stage, this is a function that has been there since mod 1 at least and its easy to see why: If the flurry stage didn't have this CC immunity frame, it would make this attack disproportionately risky to wield in PVP compared to other at wills and it also would be very annoying to PVE players to get constantly knocked and stunned in the middle of an already cumbersome attack.
Now For The Bug:
Ever since mod 16 launched on PC, I've been getting all manner of knocked and stunned during the flurry stage when I was supposed to be immune. I just ran tests on this attack's CC immunity frame yesterday and this was what I found:
DF's immunity frame no longer blocks most CCs in the game. The "immune" message still pops up on your screen when you get hit during the flurry but the CC effect still affects you.
A few AOE attacks with CC effects are still blocked by DF's immunity frame, such as smokebomb and the gelatinous cube attack that sucks you towards it.
Please restore the flurry stage CC immunity frame, it was an important part of this attack's function and needs to be there.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
The feedback below was part of a larger post I made for a different thread. I am putting this section here since the examples I used are rogue and this may help devs fix combat flow going fowards:
Rogues and Cooldown Adjustments/ Recovery/AP Gain Nerf:
I support the decision to remove recovery from the game and reduce AP gain (though the AP nerf was excessive). Runaway recovery/AP gain was intimately involved in a laundry list of major balance concerns thoughout the game, be it PVE or PVP. Older modules had a lot less recovery and people still fell in love with Neverwinter's uniquely fast paced combat flow.
The parts of the cooldown adjustments I DON'T support was directly increasing the cooldown time of powers on TOP of removing recovery/reducing AP gain. That was too much and this is part of the reason why combat flow is so HAMSTER up now. As an example, imagine having one power with negative 40k recovery and another with positive 8k recovery, the differences between power cooldowns are too extreme and rotations feel awkward and disjointed now.
Another similar issue is how many of your powers don't match eachother's cooldowns now. On a rogue for example, you ideally want 2 encounter powers to have the same cooldown as eachother and 1 power to have a different cooldown. Now most good synergies don't allow for this. Even just a 1 or 2 second difference between all 3 encounters slotted doesn't feel good.
I also think it would have been much better if cooldowns were all based on having 4k through 6k recovery instead of 0 recovery, huge cooldown increases, or cooldown decreases.
At Will Power Damage:
At will power damage still is in a terrible place, they still feel too weak and this adds to the combat flow feeling like HAMSTER. I get that charts say they make up a lot of the damage pie, but that's not what the community cares about, they care about the combat actually being enjoyable. I will also point out that in D&D, at will powers often weren't weaker than encounter powers, a good example is how melee ranger's at wills were better than their encounter powers in 4E. While I also understand that you want combat to be more similar to 5E now, I will also point out that 5E doesn't even have powers other than spells, weapon attacks are a simplified damage dice roll and you just describe your attack to the DM. Obviously that doesn't translate into an MMO setting.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
"Another similar issue is how many of your powers don't match eachother's cooldowns now. On a rogue for example, you ideally want 2 encounter powers to have the same cooldown as eachother and 1 power to have a different cooldown. Now most good synergies don't allow for this. Even just a 1 or 2 second difference between all 3 encounters slotted doesn't feel good."
yes, this happens with the new reduce cd time synergy when entering stealth, i start combat with stealth +smoke bomb for that combat advantage inside o the smoke bomb, use 2 other encounter power then spam at-will to aplly bleed on target, enter stealth again and no cd values are affected by the 10% from the class feature sneak attack (theres a typo on its description we should read it like " while stealth your movement speed is increased by 15% and your powers cool-down rate is increased by 10%) its not happening at all/broken for sure, the solution i see is grab a STR/CHA ability score and the new dex/cha set, recharge speed boon, ap gain boon, bloodlust boon, Knife's edge feat that reduces all our cooldowns by 4 secs when we activate a daily power, also tactics, sneak attack, tenacious concealment and invisible infiltrator are the most important class features this module, do we need a reduce values to smoke bomb cd timer definitely because rogues fight now is based on combat advantage.
After playing both paragon paths I have to say both path are viable "BUT" the feats don't quite synergize with the paths. SoD is more for single targets and yet it is in the WhisperKnife path. I understand why it was put in WK path because the devs want the WK path to be use. But in my IMO and a lot of the veteran TRs out there it belongs in the Assassin path. The devs know and understand this as well since the WK path rarely used outside of PVP. Also the feats for the Assassin path need some love knife's edge, shadow's flurry, execution are very unappealing and have nothing to do with assassination. Knife's Edge since ap gain is nerfed this feat is very much useless, instead why not add damage 3% increase to enemies both 50% health, shadow's flurry useless a chance to spawn a shadow, instead apply a DOT or reintroduce the bleed effect. Lurker's Assault is a single target IMO why is it under WK. IMO the Rogue still needs a lot of work the Assassin path was nerfed to make the WK stronger how is that balance. I love playing a TR and hope one day the devs bring it back to it's glory days. All of this great feedback in this blog post seems as if it is falling on death ears, but I certain hope not.
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (PC) Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1) Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall 113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again....... Wait For It
Comments
Please make rogue stealth mechanic grant 100000% critical chance. This way critical resist wont work against a stealth based attack from us.
It would give rogue class something desirable and the ability to thrive again.
Even if it is "a better than nothing" solution...
DC, GF, Barb and OP were heavily supportet by one singel dev.
TR, CW, SW and Hunter by a margin of 100.000% less ... approximately.
On warlocks side there was not one singel change towards the class, considered as a response to given feetback, same as there was not one direct response to any post, not one!
Some fixes were done, severe bugs still exist (gamebreaking ones), a class feature got switched with each other for no good reason.
That´s how crytptics thinks communication with playerbase should look like. 200 responses in one thread , zero in the other, simply ignonrant to the bone.
2. Shuriken Toss sadly wasnt received well among TR and for a good reason, its simply not good, too slow and low target number cap. We would welcome aoe atwill like HR's Clear the Ground over Shuriken Toss anytime, any day.
3. In Assassin paragon, rename the Execution feat into Venom Master and change effect - when target is under 50% HP our attacks got 10% chance to deal 100 magnitude to the target. (up from 20% HP and down from 200 magnitude)
4. Toxic Blades feat cannot be stacked up to 5 times if it lasts 9 secs when our best single target encounter cooldowns are 13, 14 and 17 seconds seconds. Increase the feat's duration to 15 seconds and reduce cooldowns of all Assassin specific encounters by 1 seconds, 2 seconds for Wicked Reminder.
5. Invisible Infiltrator - increase the duration of the effect to 20 seconds after Daily activation.
6. First strike - additionally increases damage by 5% for 10 secs.
7 .Infiltrator's Action - increased duration of the effect to 20 seconds.
8. Bloodbath - add secondary effect + 20% run speed for 5 secs.
9. Increase the effect of passive Tactics from 10% to 20%.
10. Additional effect for Sneak Attack - while stealthed increase critical severity by 20%.
11. Stealth - additionally to current effects, it grants auto-crit like it used to.
12. Stealth recharge - no other class is unable to use their Tab ability when they have aggro, which is the case with Rogue class. Stealth needs to constantly regenerate at the same pace, independent of taking damage or anything else. Feat and class features providing this should be removed/reworked into something else. The problem with Stealth in PvP is gone ever since we became visible once we started attacking. This needs to be fixed as it is very annoying when we have aggro in boss fights and are unable to ever use Stealth.
13. DF Bleeds dont proc feat Assassin's Target.
@noworries#8859 @asterdahl
> Give us the AtWill that HR's have with similar animation to our BladeFlurry encounter. That's AoE atwill we need and effect of final strike is to hit with doubled damage and such atwill is welcome in both Paragons.
This is something I think TRs have needed for a long time. It would definitely help with surviving soloing waiting for the long encounter cooldowns to reset.
> But monsters don't care. But it can be marketable to PvE if you built on those aspects and tweak content mechanics to where "stealth" is useful. At minimum, a temporary FEAR type debuff on an enemy you attack from stealth.
Fear would be an interesting mechanic to add to stealth to add SOMETHING. As others have mentioned CA won't cut it (pun intended), and with our 100% crit chance in stealth gone...
Sneak Attack & Tenacious Concealment class feature.
Choose feat master of shadows.
Great flow combat I think by combo to begin leveling with for 80.
Master Boon that helps with recharge of encounters later.
Dazing Strike
Lashing Blade
Blade Fury
GloamingCut or CloudOfSteel (Encounters reasons for distance)
Duelist Flurry
Whisperknife, well lurkers of course and shady preparations just by looking at it. I haven't tried Whisperknife path yet as 2nd layout.
Hope this helps anyone?
I'm tearing it up and I don't have my ability scores set LOL. Still waiting for my 16STR-18DEX ability start roll back for my rogue. I want more STR rather than DEX. Either +3STR or +3DEX when starting new rogue character as I found out. So I want my 16STR-18DEX back like what I had in Mod 15. All rogues were set +3DEX by default with Mod 16 update, which I wanted more damage dealt with +3STR.
> Smoke Bomb: Lower it's cooldown.
Bait and Switch: Same as Smoke bomb, lower the cooldown. Also, why not make it explode when the duration ends? Would be nice since we can see/remove traps, we should also place some too.
This would be so awesome!
> Give us something to support the group when were not the only or strongest dps. Rework Whisperknife in a support paragon based on debuffing (to the extend m16 allows) and crowd control while having high stealth regen and duration. This would allow new encounters like for example a flashbang that blinds enemies, interrupts their actions and decreases their defenses for a certain amount of time. It would give stealth an actual meaning. Every power used within stealth could leave enemies in a "confused" state, allowing us to attack them while they dont fight back for a few seconds. Let us place a real decoy that lures enemies to a place where we can slaughter them together. There would be so many possibilities...
A confuse/debuff mechanic added to stealth would also be a viable option for improvement.
Before I explain the bug, here is a little bit of info about this attack for context:
The rogue power duelist's flurry has always consisted of two swings followed by a flurry of smaller attacks. During the flurry stage, the person using this attack is locked in place and can't move until they either dodge or the attack ends. This lockdown is pretty long compared to most attacks out there and one full attack combo takes 3 to 4 seconds to complete from start to finish. The flurry stage is also what does most of this attack's damage.
Because of this long lockdown, this attack grants you CC immunity during the flurry stage, this is a function that has been there since mod 1 at least and its easy to see why:
If the flurry stage didn't have this CC immunity frame, it would make this attack disproportionately risky to wield in PVP compared to other at wills and it also would be very annoying to PVE players to get constantly knocked and stunned in the middle of an already cumbersome attack.
Now For The Bug:
Ever since mod 16 launched on PC, I've been getting all manner of knocked and stunned during the flurry stage when I was supposed to be immune. I just ran tests on this attack's CC immunity frame yesterday and this was what I found:
DF's immunity frame no longer blocks most CCs in the game. The "immune" message still pops up on your screen when you get hit during the flurry but the CC effect still affects you.
A few AOE attacks with CC effects are still blocked by DF's immunity frame, such as smokebomb and the gelatinous cube attack that sucks you towards it.
Please restore the flurry stage CC immunity frame, it was an important part of this attack's function and needs to be there.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Rogues and Cooldown Adjustments/ Recovery/AP Gain Nerf:
I support the decision to remove recovery from the game and reduce AP gain (though the AP nerf was excessive). Runaway recovery/AP gain was intimately involved in a laundry list of major balance concerns thoughout the game, be it PVE or PVP. Older modules had a lot less recovery and people still fell in love with Neverwinter's uniquely fast paced combat flow.
The parts of the cooldown adjustments I DON'T support was directly increasing the cooldown time of powers on TOP of removing recovery/reducing AP gain. That was too much and this is part of the reason why combat flow is so HAMSTER up now. As an example, imagine having one power with negative 40k recovery and another with positive 8k recovery, the differences between power cooldowns are too extreme and rotations feel awkward and disjointed now.
Another similar issue is how many of your powers don't match eachother's cooldowns now. On a rogue for example, you ideally want 2 encounter powers to have the same cooldown as eachother and 1 power to have a different cooldown. Now most good synergies don't allow for this. Even just a 1 or 2 second difference between all 3 encounters slotted doesn't feel good.
I also think it would have been much better if cooldowns were all based on having 4k through 6k recovery instead of 0 recovery, huge cooldown increases, or cooldown decreases.
At Will Power Damage:
At will power damage still is in a terrible place, they still feel too weak and this adds to the combat flow feeling like HAMSTER.
I get that charts say they make up a lot of the damage pie, but that's not what the community cares about, they care about the combat actually being enjoyable.
I will also point out that in D&D, at will powers often weren't weaker than encounter powers, a good example is how melee ranger's at wills were better than their encounter powers in 4E.
While I also understand that you want combat to be more similar to 5E now, I will also point out that 5E doesn't even have powers other than spells, weapon attacks are a simplified damage dice roll and you just describe your attack to the DM. Obviously that doesn't translate into an MMO setting.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
yes, this happens with the new reduce cd time synergy when entering stealth, i start combat with stealth +smoke bomb for that combat advantage inside o the smoke bomb, use 2 other encounter power then spam at-will to aplly bleed on target, enter stealth again and no cd values are affected by the 10% from the class feature sneak attack (theres a typo on its description we should read it like " while stealth your movement speed is increased by 15% and your powers cool-down rate is increased by 10%) its not happening at all/broken for sure, the solution i see is grab a STR/CHA ability score and the new dex/cha set, recharge speed boon, ap gain boon, bloodlust boon, Knife's edge feat that reduces all our cooldowns by 4 secs when we activate a daily power, also tactics, sneak attack, tenacious concealment and invisible infiltrator are the most important class features this module, do we need a reduce values to smoke bomb cd timer definitely because rogues fight now is based on combat advantage.
All of this great feedback in this blog post seems as if it is falling on death ears, but I certain hope not.
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
Wait For It