Official M16: Rogue

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  • doink#2651
    doink#2651 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    It would be still nice to know, WHY single target powers / feats arent single target powers anymore on a viable path? I´m on console, and seeing all this desaster makes me loose a lot more motivation to even play my rouge till mod 16 hits. YOU said this doesnt affect consoles right now. We should keep calm...No, we wont keep calm, you destroy our class. again.. Ty.... I feel cheated.......
    Doink....useless TR...

  • joe7777
    joe7777 Member Posts: 509 Arc User

    It would be still nice to know, WHY single target powers / feats arent single target powers anymore on a viable path? I´m on console, and seeing all this desaster makes me loose a lot more motivation to even play my rouge till mod 16 hits. YOU said this doesnt affect consoles right now. We should keep calm...No, we wont keep calm, you destroy our class. again.. Ty.... I feel cheated.......

    Mod 16 is also still in testing and can change anything at any given time, so no consoles are not effected until mod 16 launches on them because nothing is set in stone yet. I for one am patiently waiting to see what Rogue will be like when mod 16 hits consoles.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    You should have seen the play testers.... guess how many rogues there were... mmhmm exactly.

    Don't worry though guys. We already worked out the best builds for rogue in mod 16. From the best feats, boons, at wills, encounters, companions, and more.

    All that changes in mod 16 is our mobility drops way down, survivability goes up a bit.

    You will need different attack sets for groups of enemies and single bosses and for bosses that spawn adds.

    In the past at wills were a decent choice of damage, some like gloaming strike were on par with lashing blade. In mod 16 at wills are like slaps/jabs and encounters are heavy blows to the body and daily powers are like uppercuts.

    The new mod 16 artifact set will be great for whisperknife, but as assassin you may want to stick with master craft III for at least one more module.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • doink#2651
    doink#2651 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    joe7777 said:

    It would be still nice to know, WHY single target powers / feats arent single target powers anymore on a viable path? I´m on console, and seeing all this desaster makes me loose a lot more motivation to even play my rouge till mod 16 hits. YOU said this doesnt affect consoles right now. We should keep calm...No, we wont keep calm, you destroy our class. again.. Ty.... I feel cheated.......

    Mod 16 is also still in testing and can change anything at any given time, so no consoles are not effected until mod 16 launches on them because nothing is set in stone yet. I for one am patiently waiting to see what Rogue will be like when mod 16 hits consoles.

    It DOES affect us imediatly. Many ppl stopped playing instantly after Mod 16 hitted preview, prices in ah were fluctuating like crazy, And at least, every time info comes for pc, ppl start changing their playstyle to be prepared. But now there is no need to be prepared for anything cause we have to start over new. So ppl dont play atm, just get their keys and log of cause now running dungeons dont make any sense now.
    Doink....useless TR...

  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Yeah, what he said. In some ways consoles are affected more by preview and new mods because we stay in the flux state after the announcement of the new stuff for several months longer. It creates a huge rollercoaster effect for population density, prices, etc.
  • joe7777
    joe7777 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Not the devs' fault people choose to jump the gun on things though. Sure we plan for the future but we can't plan precisely because we don't know what the future will hold yet, at least not until it releases for PC, so said planning is folly. Our time is better spent building up AD and other things in preparation, which ironically the unwarranted inflation does help with.
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is what it is.
  • dressroba
    dressroba Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    encouter : blade of flurry ! doesn't go on cd if used in stealth
    class feature: skillful infiltrator ! the 10% move speed doesn't not show up in charcter stats
    class feature: sneak attack ! the 15% move speed in stealth doesn't not show up in charcter stats


  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Hmm, we're the cooldowns of things tweaked again? I can't find my notes from last time, but I swear some of those numbers are different than I remember.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Cooldowns and magnitudes
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Yeah, the mags looked different too. Darn squirrels stealing my post it notes.
  • cabar1
    cabar1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 124 Arc User

    More experience rogue already noticed it. There is a game-breaking bug with TR, but nobody is reporting it, probably because there will be no response and "Thank you for your hard work". Other reason is the bug make the game more playable/enjoyable for rogue. (Making the Rogue At the top of the food chain). That probably a good thing, but it won't probably last long, but it has potential to last until the next MOD 17 :). DEV should not waste time investigating it and focus on the other systems that request more focus.

    Exactly what is this BUG? or are you keeping it to yourself or does it really exist?
    99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall
    113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
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  • lordseth1985
    lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 312 Arc User
    Its true that we start with 16 STR / 14 CON / 21 DEX / 9 INT / 11 WIS / 13 CHA ??? If yes, how you guys are doing? The mod 16 solo missions are doable or just hard enough to keep solo?

    Also, it would be nice if someone could post here the powers/feats/passives we'll receive next mod. Many ppl didn't went to preview yet [me included lol]
    Seth QuickHands - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Solo is doable. Honestly, unless you're really undergeared it's not too hard. I don't know how it fares in dungeons because so far I've only soloed dungeons and that's not a good indicator.
  • silvergryph
    silvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited April 2019
  • noworries#8859
    noworries#8859 Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
  • skatopsixos7
    skatopsixos7 Member Posts: 45 Arc User

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.

    Essentialy the tr tab is useless, since we get CA from positioning.. meh..

  • skatopsixos7
    skatopsixos7 Member Posts: 45 Arc User

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.

    Essentialy the tr tab is useless, since we get CA from positioning.. meh..
    Oh and why do tr's get 1, 2 changes, and other classes like barbies and some other get tons ?

    Reason why most players don't even log anymore.

    Regards, GalaCTIC uNDERWEAR.

  • onin002
    onin002 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.

    Thanks

    What I like to see is more clear separation between the paragons, so that let say Wisperknife is a AoE/trash mob paragon and Assassin is a boss fight paragon.

    As it is now they (HAMSTER/WK) do kind of same thing, just by different Powers. Make more sense that they both had a clear focus, that is different from each other.

  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    onin002 said:

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.

    Thanks

    What I like to see is more clear separation between the paragons, so that let say Wisperknife is a AoE/trash mob paragon and Assassin is a boss fight paragon.

    As it is now they (HAMSTER/WK) do kind of same thing, just by different Powers. Make more sense that they both had a clear focus, that is different from each other.

    I think such separation is ok only if we will be able to swap loadouts anywhere outside combat, and not only at designated campfires.

    I am for unique feel and play style for paragons but IMO if it's the separation into one AoE and one ST, then trade off of that uniqueness - the need to make pit stops on every campsite in a dungeon run, and usually twice on each boss, just not worth it. More so in places like cradle where you can't swap from AoE (elevator) to single target (baby).
  • akemnos
    akemnos Member Posts: 597 Arc User

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.


    Bug: The stealth mechanic makes absolutely no mention of a damage boost when leaving stealth. This needs to be added into the tool tip and specifying how long the buff is.

    We honestly realize that change the entire class is not reasonable but the way they are set up right now there is nothing distinguishing about them. They are mixed and matched excessively with seemingly no direction between the two.

    For example lets look at the Shadow of Demise power. Encounters from stealth add its effect which does 30% of all damage over the next 5 seconds

    Looking at whisper knife we need 1 encounter to trigger it and then use our biggest magnitude powers to add the damage up. This would be the following:

    random encounter - lets say blade flurry
    attack 1 - Daily - hateful knives - 1500 magnitude - 1.8 seconds cast time - 3.2 seconds left
    attack 2 - encounter - lashing blade - 600 magnitude - 1 second cast time - 2.2 seconds left
    attack 3 - encounter - impact shot - 375 magnitude - .9 seconds cast time - 1.3 seconds left
    attacks 4 to 8 - at will - sly flourish - 30 magnitude - .26 seconds cast time - 0 seconds left if you get all 5 off

    Total is 2625 magnitude X 30% = 787.5 magnitude damage or slightly better than 1 extra lashing blade attack. You then have to sit and wait another 6 seconds using only at wills. Or otherwise use sly flourish another 23 times until your encounters are off cool down.

    Compare that to if it was in the Assassin path
    random encounter - blade flurry
    attack 1 - daily - shocking execution - 1700 - 1.5 - 3.5
    attack 2 - encounter - assassinate - 725 - .95 - 2.55
    attack 3 - encounter - wicked reminder - 650 - .8 - 1.75
    attacks 4 to 9 - sly flourish - 30 - .26 - .2 seconds left

    total is 3255 magnitude X 30% = 976 magnitude damage. You then sit and deal at will again extensively but at least the damage is much better.

    I am sure there are slightly better rotations but it seems like this feat is in the wrong paragon class
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    WK doesn't have the ST focus for SoD. Either give SoD AoE proc, move it to assassin, or rework it entirely.

    The end feat 5% chance to proc after 20% health is a riduculous double set of conditions. It needs one condition that can be procced at a reasonable rate. A flat 5% to 10% is probably sufficient.

    ItC needs another second or two shaved off the cooldown. If we're going to dump a damaging encounter power for a survival tool, then it needs to be up often enough to actually be able to help us survive. Especially with the amount of cc there is in some places. I don't want it to be a necessary encounter, but at least useful if I run into a cc heavy area.

    The class features that proc on daily need to be looked at. With lower AP gain that is a serious gate, and they don't provide a big enough bonus for that kind of gate. I think a different condition altogether would be best to decouple the "need" for excessive AP gain from decent DPS performance. You could have them proc on exiting stealth (providing another use of the class mechanic), or on critical hit since you've capped crit now. Or something. Some condition that could reasonably be met at least once a minute, maybe more depending how you want to balance it. I think twice a minute average would be a good benchmark personally.

    Smoke Bomb, PotB, and Blade Flurry need a small mag boost. And maybe a pass at their AP gain.

  • joe7777
    joe7777 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Don't suppose Stealth could offer Combat Advantage Bonus Damage as well as guaranteed Combat Advantage? Even 5% would do. I mean between using Companions and being in a Group or simply having other players around as you fight Combat Advantage can be achieved without Stealth pretty much any time ever.
  • noworries#8859
    noworries#8859 Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    akemnos said:



    Bug: The stealth mechanic makes absolutely no mention of a damage boost when leaving stealth. This needs to be added into the tool tip and specifying how long the buff is.

    Wanted to real quick mention that it isn't part of the stealth mechanic, it is the leveling feat "Cunning Ambusher" which is listed at the bottom of the powers page.

    The rest of the post is being read as well, but wanted to clear that up.
  • blur#5900
    blur#5900 Member Posts: 490 Arc User


    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    On page 3 I made several suggestions regarding powers, mostly pointing out the stealthed effects which are not helpful, check it out.
    I will point out again, why the AP gain block on Lurker's Assault?
    Lashing Blade needs a new stealthed effect instead of something that may or may not work since crit is capped at 50%.
    Wicked Reminder stealthed effect reducing crit resist... Not helpful since crit is capped at 50% and we can have that percentage without reducing crit resist on the targets...
    Impossible to Catch is not worth slotting anymore.

    Why did Blade Flurry lose it's charges in latest build? It was the only power that Rogues could have used in AoE instead of holding atwill for 15 seconds waiting for cooldowns to expire...

    Another thing that makes no sense is AoE atwill having same/higher magnitude than ST atwills.

    Powers which stealthed effect "doesnt remove you from stealth" are really not helpful, not in PvP, not in PvE.
    Class features, as pointed out in page 3, need some effect that is actually helping.

    Again, this is just pointing out the things which seem like most obvious issues. Removal of recovery stat made a big impact on the play style that this class had, the build freedom we had is gone.
    If you are interested in hearing how some TR's imagine a functioning build for the class let us know in private conversation as I doubt anyone will bother working out a functioning and fun to play build in their head to be ignored in the sea of comments, Fabricant's tank tr joke aside.
    image
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.

    Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.

    Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.


    Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.

    The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.

    Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.

    akemnos said:



    Bug: The stealth mechanic makes absolutely no mention of a damage boost when leaving stealth. This needs to be added into the tool tip and specifying how long the buff is.

    Wanted to real quick mention that it isn't part of the stealth mechanic, it is the leveling feat "Cunning Ambusher" which is listed at the bottom of the powers page.

    The rest of the post is being read as well, but wanted to clear that up.
    Thank you for responding @noworries#8859, and thanks for clarifying the Cunning Ambusher.
    It's disappointing (of course) that you aren't planning any further changes to stealth before launch.
    I feel that combat advantage is easily gained without Stealth. So much so, as to limit it's meaningfulness.
    Perhaps add a boost to crit severity?


    Gloaming cut remains bugged and is still not applying that additional effect that it's supposed to

    Glad you guys recognise the need to boost AoE dmg although removing the charges from Blade Flurry won't do anything to improve this. I feel the AoE boost is particularly needed for Whisperknife.
    Currently, Whisperknife remains underwhelming to play (Frankly it feels like the fish slap dance from Monty Python).
    Increasing AoE damage may go some way to improve this, but I'll wait and see.
    Currently, I'm not motivated to use this paragon path.

    Sly Flourish - please could you add an "apply affect" as this at-will is lacking one. The affect from live (reduce target's DR/Defence) would be good.

    Post edited by sabre10 on
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  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Also, to add my +1 to this point, we're complaining about stealth being useless because if we're doing our job right as a DPS, we have CA from positioning. Yeah, I know stuff happens and we don't actually always have it, but essentially our class mechanic is something we can get and should have without ever touching our class mechanic. And that's hamster. The damage boost thing after leaving is good, I hadn't seen that, but that doesn't make the primary function of stealth being CA feel any better. If you want us to think of the damage boost as the primary function then you definitely need to put that in the stealth tooltip and make it obvious that's what stealth does.

    As to the extra stealth effects, only about half of them are useful. Lashing blade either needs to guarantee a crit, or get a different effect. Kind of like the stealth-CA complaint, I'm Already going to have a high or maxed chance to crit, so having that as a "special" effect does hamster for me. Now the effect of execution is nice. Actually, I like execution in general. It's actually a really good power.

    I actually like blade flurry better without the charges personally, but I think it needs to hit harder if we're only getting one hit instead of 3. It's seriously underwhelming.
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Also, as has been said many, MANY times, Lurkers Assault does not need an AP gain block. For all that's holy, remove the hamstering daily and replace it if you can't get over this issue of the block. Especially now that AP gain is so low.